Censorship here?

[Gaia]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Gaia (here)

I think since this topic pops up at least once a week, that none of us take it seriously...

There are three types of people in the world: Those who get things done, those who watch things getting done, and those who wonder what's going on.

And the Sith Lords that send nuggets to get things done.
Don't forget us, oops.
I mean them, yeah, them.

The Nuggets have to weigh their options dont you think ? It's way past soap opera. It's like a bad movie now !

[Amer]

Posted by Chicodoodoo
Avalon has already fragmented, more than once, as a result of this problem, and this division is on-going. It will continue until the problem is properly addressed. That is the purpose of this post.

Posted by Paul
We wish you well in your endeavors, Chicodoodoo.

Your Project Avalon account has been deactivated.

As it states in the forum Guidelines:


Anyone who does not appear to be in alignment with the purpose and energy of the forum may be asked to leave.

Posted by Lord Sidious
Avalon is ill, very, very ill.
This has been evident for a long time.
First we had camelot, that split.
Then we had camelot and avalon.
Avalon split and now we have nexus.
Do we have to have another split before we sit down and wonder what is going on?
How many times do we have to go down to the well before we believe the well is empty?
You know why I rock the boat?
I care.
If I did not, I wouldn't bother.
......................................
Now I hear you all getting your backs up again, because I am telling the truth.
......................................
If I am the only one here that can see that and will risk my account to tell you this, so be it.
My advice is to fix this now, while we can before it causes yet another split.
I don't have all the answers, but I am willing to find them.

Posted by Lord Sidious
It has been pointed out to me by one of the mods, who cared enough about me, bill and the forum to spend over an hour and a half of his time to try and sort this out.

( I have put the words in bold not the original authors )

For my curiousity Rob- do you have any idea why you were given a very very long leash and Chicodoodoo no?

You both raised an issue that seems to be united in:
* a sincere belief that a problem exists
* a sincere desire to solve said problem for the sake of Avalon and Avalon alone
* the failure of Avalon founder & team giving stated belief credence

And so is there really an elephant in the room?
Are we really ignoring something that might be an opportunity for growth or is it merely as some would believe all construed for god only knows what obscure personal end ........

A lot of people have got/are getting pretty tied up in all of this- and bar one or two- I believe their intentions sincere.

It may however be an idea to take Ross's advice

Posted by Ross
The best approach is one of non-personal attachment, take what you like and leave alone what you don't...

....... above all when it becomes apparent that a very clear line has been drawn not in the sand but pretty much in concrete ...... by a "benevolent dictator" ( oxymoron perhaps ?!)
Goodnight all xx

[Lord Sidious]

You might see that I wasn't so much being rude and I was only looking at Bill, not the staff.
I can't say I ever had any issues with em.
And we are talking about different issues, his is censorship, mine was bill and some of his issues.

[Ilie Pandia]

Posted by Amer (here)
A lot of people have got/are getting pretty tied up in all of this- and bar one or two- I believe their intentions sincere.

Hello Amer,

That statement is not actually accurate. There are very few people that have got/are getting pretty tied up in all of this (not a lot).

I agree with NancyV statement (I've added the emphasis):

Posted by NancyV
This forum is already set up with it's guidelines and moderators and is going along just fine for most of us.

We do actually receive PMs and emails commending us for our efforts. We also get a lot of PMs and email asking for help which we provide. But because those are mostly gentle "whispers" you don't get to hear about them .

Going trough my daily tasks I've just realized there is only an "apparent conflict" between the moderators and the members of the forum. What is actually happening is that we all are on the same side and the main task of the moderation team is to serve and support this community.

That may not be apparent for those that force us to intervene, but they are only a few and not "a lot" or "most of" the members.

[Gaia]

And we are talking about different issues, his is censorship, mine was bill and some of his issues.

Its clear to see there are differences of opinions about moderating this forum. I enjoy Bill Ryan interviews and threads a lot, I love his character and prudence and genuine earthiness.

Forgiveness is best for all involved.

Gaia

[dan i el]

Posted by ulli (here)
When I came here Chicodoodoo had a thread about sociopaths...
right away I was noticing the direction that discussion was taking, i.e. not solving anything,
but rather creating more questions than answers.

I was using this signature then: "where the focus goes, energy flows"

something I firmly believe in- not just because I read it somewhere, but because I have found it to be true.

Taking down the NWO by identifying the sociopaths among the leadership can't really lead anywhere.

How would one know who exactly is the sociopath and who is not, and moreover, where do you draw the line between those who are and those who are not?
You would end up with a Nazi type of system...like racism.

Then he was trying to build a community of absolute equality for all members
this reminded me of Soviet communism's 72 year`road to nowhere...

History has shown all the possible pitfalls of non workinbg systems
and the only thing that works is a combo of all
where even a monarchy has it's place as some might want the ceremonial type of leadership

So here is Avalon:
members post and moderators who are also members in good standing keep an eye on the general tone and level of discussion
then, when a moderator is way out of line the other moderators as well as some of the members and finally Bill would step in and make suggestions, if that doesn't work, there are the reminders, like turning down the volume, and finally the off button.
The choice is with the disturber, to discover that his droning is not becoming his real potential which is to make music rather than drone on and on.


Someone like that is either damaged by childhood experiences or mind controlled by outside interference.

I would love to hear what Omniverse or OnyxKnight think of this, although I would never DEMAND that they respond to my request.

Hear me, guys?

You are free to NOT respond.

I will not hold it against you, nor would I call on the moderators to get you to reply.

It's all a matter of respect for another's right to sovereignty and Bill who I think was the real target in all of this has such a right, too.

In terms of "who is a sociopath anyway" I tend to agree. I have been reading at forums for diagnosed sociopaths/psychopaths inthe last few months and it is surely too simple to proclaim a black and white whodunnit based solely in terms of the diagnosed condition itself.

I think it is true that the prevailing system is headed by staunch sang froid psychopaths and has been formore years than someone might care to remember- and further that within that/this ongoing dynamic sociopathy is rewarded and declared as meritous -- thus creating a situation where the entire species affected overtime becomes more psychopathic as they model the desired order -- most people want to adhere to the status quo, apparently. You probably already know this.

I have Asperger's syndrome, for instance. F84.5. There are a lot of rubbishy silly things that are said about people with it -- that we can't imagine or that we are unable to conceive of a gestalt etc..but in terms of dear Asperger himself - he referred to us as "autistic psychopaths" by way of definition - ergo - by the given rational that cleansing the species of the psychopath leads to utopia; I am up against the wall too probably.

would one such as me then say in appeal : "Please don't shoot me, I have empathy"

if I was an esoteric freemason perhaps it'd be easier to see in purely as black and white.

sorry for the ramble tone. Glad the earthquake dissipated, ulli

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~
Limor (mod hat on/off red,green and with a feather...as you wish)
~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^

I loved your post, it was sensible and well thought out, but you know we're going to have to get you a feathery mod hat now

How about this one to wear whilst using a foil to sort out problem posternuggets?

Or this one to wear whilst casting them into eternal fire?

A foil? How about just 'foil'. We could line the hat with foil to keep her thoughts in her brain cage.

[Gaia]

A foil? How about just 'foil'. We could line the hat with foil to keep her thoughts in her brain cage.

Foil is for girls ! Does this mean that foil is a sissy weapon, or is the problem somehow genetic ? Maybe a foil has too many X chromosomes imho.

One, I don't like to have, be hooked up to wires that are hooked up to the ceiling !

[Dorok]

Just my two cents after reading every last word in this thread...

If the OP's original post is not being meaningfully debated, and the OP is deactivated, why is this thread still open?

[sllim11]

ssshhhhhh. it just got real quiet.

[perfectresonance]

Posted by Dorok (here)
Just my two cents after reading every last word in this thread...

If the OP's original post is not being meaningfully debated, and the OP is deactivated, why is this thread still open?

In my experience, it's a tricky thing to close a thread called Censorship here?

I suspect the mods would prefer it peter out by itself instead of provide fodder for those with their hearts set on debating the "truth" about censorship at Avalon...

Sometimes my 2c worth seems more like 3. This is such a case.

[blake]

Posted by NancyV (here)

Posted by qbeac (here)
Possible solutions to the current situation:

The following ones are three great ideas, and btw, the meritocracy is not my idea, is Benjamin Fulford’s idea, but I like it as well:

Posted by Vivek (here)
… What if the Avalon Forum introduced a jury? …

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)
… A system of checks and balances is called for here, one that is circular as opposed to hierarchical. In other words, if moderators are tasked with controlling the community, the community must also be tasked with controlling the moderators…

Posted by qbeac (here)
… a Meritocracy as Benjamin Fulford has mentioned so many times in his weekly updates as being a good system to rule the world, as opposed to the current ones of dictatorships and the like…

Clarification:

Of course, the details of how those ideas could be designed and brought to practice can be worked out later, because there are many different ways to do it. But the important thing is that the basic concepts exist. Now it is a matter of deciding what exact percentages to choose, what procedures or protocols to follow, etc.

The goal is to improve the current situation, and it can be done.

This forum is already set up with it's guidelines and moderators and is going along just fine for most of us. A few people want to reorganize a few thousand people and take over decision making from those who have already set it up. It would be better for those who want administrative changes to open their own forum and administrate it in the way they would like, just as Chicodoodoo was going to do, just as those at NEXUS are doing.

The only thing I see that needs to be improved is for those who love complaining about the way Avalon is moderated to either give it up as a lost cause or go elsewhere. It is the way it is. Of course it will change organically as time passes, everything changes, but if you want radical and immediate change it's most likely not going to happen here. You want a jury? Not going to happen here. You want voting? Not going to happen here. All these suggestions would entail HUGE amounts of extra work for.... guess who? Bill and the volunteer moderators! Plus there are not many who see a need for such changes. Those who want those changes are free to leave and start or search for a forum that fulfills their desires.

This is not a democracy or a meritocracy, it's a benevolent dictatorship as are the vast majority of forums on the Internet. The few that aren't are usually quite chaotic and often unpleasant for people who don't like constant conflict and complaining.

Hello Ms V,

I don’t quite follow your reasoning. We do indeed seem to have two different perspectives on this issue; but, if it is not too upsetting to you, I would like to try to understand yours a bit more. My perspective is that no matter what the various members say, Avalon will always be a dictatorship. Members can say whatever they want, politely of course; but the bottom line is that the member’s words have absolutely no power to change anything about how Avalon is run. So, to me, all this talk about Avalon remaining a dictatorship and not changing its rules is a moot point.

I am curious as to why any intellectual discussion, on any non violent topic, could possibly trigger such intense criticism, and the seemingly enforced limitation on freedom of speech that some commenting on this thread seem to be advocating whether they realize it or not.

Since no one is forced to read any thread, why does anyone object to any topic on any one thread as long as it is non violent and does not blazingly be rude to anyone? It seems that you, and others prefer that there be limitation on what can and can not be discussed. Why? I don’t believe any thread has any power, except to share knowledge, opinions, and maybe, just maybe widen someone’s perspective to see more than they didn’t see before. They may not agree, but at least maybe they can begin to understand the other human’s perspective; and isn’t that the first step to peaceful co existence?

I guess I am just so puzzled because even if there was an ongoing thread of interested parties talking about this issue about how Avalon could be different, it is just virtual keyboard warriors talking….. no coup could actually take place! But more importantly no one is forced to read it. I may love to be on the debate team, but some people may prefer to be in the band. Isn’t the Avalon forum big enough for us all? Or do we really have to choose? That is what I feel all those reading this particular thread, who were upset by the thread, is forcing a point on, that should not have to be forced. Freedom of speech is healthy on so many levels for all, when done with respect.

Do you remember when Gaddafi years ago invited all the poets, writers and painters to come and have an open forum on literature and the arts to promote the culture of Libya?
After everyone who wanted to participate in this “wonderful” forum signed in, Gaddafi immediately had them all thrown in jail. And, sadly, some of these writers, poets and artists are still in jail…..and for what crime? Promoting a different view than he had. He felt he needed to protect his power. I never could understand why freedom of speech, especially through the arts, could be such a threat to so many. I am equally puzzled why freedom of speech, by powerless keyboard warriors appears to be such threat to those who run Avalon?

You might say you don’t want to be part of a thread that you perceive as beating beat a dead horse. Maybe from your perspective it is dead, but maybe from another’s view point it is not. But more importantly, you have the free will to choose to read a different thread.

Is it not best to remember that Avalon is all virtual? Everyone is safe. There is no need to fear a power grab here. The rules will not be changed no matter what is discussed. So since the bottom line is that the rules cannot be changed by anyone except Bill Ryan, why would anyone object so vehemently against someone’s opinion as what I seemed to witness in this virtual opinion thread?

Of course, you, Ms V, are under no obligation to read this let alone answer it. I am just curious why you spent your valuable time reading a thread that obviously was upsetting you, but could not hurt you in any way or change how Avalon is run.

In this day and age, unfortunately, the American government can call anyone an enemy combatant that they choose. Police are often annoyed, and will even arrest Americans quoting the Federal Constitution. Those in governmental power have a real fear of the waking of the masses, and many in power feel that dissent must be suppressed. However, in the virtual world of Avalon, as I have stated before, the members have no power. They can only state their opinions. Mr. Ryan and his moderating team call all the shots. So why are they apparently so afraid of free speech on this forum? Why is it that many are reading threads they object to? Why not read a different thread? Why is it not okay for members to start a thread discussing the banning of members? I will admit, there are some threads that I will not even open when I see who starts them. I am happy for them to have the platform to discuss what they want to discuss, but I will only open threads that I have an interest in. So I am confused why so many people who apparently get upset with Chicodoodoo’s viewpoint would even open up one of his threads?

People can talk about love and light all they want, words can be, after all very cheap. But in my opinion, until right action is shown by humans seeking to understand those they may disagree with, as long as people have fear where no real threat exists, then humans will continue to mistreat each other and this new model of society that Mr. Ryan speaks of will never come to be.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[Flash]

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~
Limor (mod hat on/off red,green and with a feather...as you wish)
~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^~*&^

I loved your post, it was sensible and well thought out, but you know we're going to have to get you a feathery mod hat now

I don't know if mods cut the referred post or if Seikou-kishi did it but let me tell you: the cut is way too short. I don't know what the previous topic is about at all and have to refer to the original post to understand (brain can retain 7 posts at a time - 7 items). Then I loose the post I was at when I referred to the previous post.

result: I get discourage and cannot follow the thread - Is that the purpose????

Overdoing it is overdoing it. Buckminster fuller could not be read anylonger either.

Please, if the target is us to stop reading, good, let us know. If not, let the meat of referred posts be shown. Thanks

and this holds for whomever cut the references.

thanks

ps ok I was at 185 now I have to go back. Worst than parking spots, where did I park? Have to remember! Same when I have to go back to previous posts in order to understand what the author of the new post refers to. Lots of parking today. I think I lost my car!

[Jeffrey]

How is one chosen to be a moderator for the forum? How many moderators are there here?

Much Love and Thanks,

Vivek

[buckminster fuller]

Thanks Mr. Davis.. A lot of good points here... I'd like to add that if Avalon is in anyway meant to play a role in the bettering of this world, loosing such valuable members as chico is a real drama, despite his eloquence and the vigorous faith in what he believes in. That people here feel relieved that the subject is now closed, as it means that a member who has been focusing on the greater common good is gone, doesn't match the idea that I had about the overall mentality here. It starts to feel like some kind of dogma is shaping the way ideas are received. Creativity doesn't flow, spirituality often gets mixed up with problem solving, pragmatic views. Don't forget that the ego finds its power source in what people thinks others think about them. The "group effect" feeds on that, and it takes some openness to welcome views that differ from ours.

Dissent is needed, as there is no hope for creativity if doors remain closed and if no questions are asked.

Chico deserves an apology from many already, maybe some people will see that when they go over some of his older posts. I hope so for them anyway.

Peace

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Vivek (here)
How is one chosen to be a moderator for the forum? How many moderators are there here?

Much Love and Thanks,

Vivek

Bill invites those he wants on staff and here
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showgroups.php
is the list of mods/admins.

[Mad Hatter]

Warning: Input from a type b) albeit one with a fairly mushy inside!!

Having observed several of these types of threads in recent times I have noticed some similarities, it is apparent to me that the same elephant squats in every room. That being what is a fair and reasonable solution to the common issue of dealing perceived slights.

Some take the view it is yet more same old same old and go to great pains to point out that the system is FAD (Functioning As Designed).

We seem to have those upset with this style of thread attempting to put the world right from their viewpoint despite themselves claiming things like energy flows where attention goes etc. I often wonder how they do not see that as slightly hypocritical...

Invariably their is input from those saying all this is old world thinking and we should all rise above it. I like the positive vibe but once again wonder why they are participating in a thread which they percieve as old world thinking...

Then we have input from those who believe the system is FUBAR (F'd Up Beyond All Recognition) so be it, thanks for your input, provided it is put nicely...

Of course we get those that simply choose to inject a bit of levity, god bless them.

Then of course we come to the poor bloody admin / moderators, volunteers one and all doing a somewhat thankless task, sitting on the edge of their seats no doubt hoping that one or other of the denizens doesn't lose the plot and go over the top, thus forcing them to play the bad guy once again and kicking of another round he said she said. Talk about meat in middle of the proverbial sandwich!! I really do feel for you guys...

What is interesting to note also is the ratio of those volunteering solutions as opposed to those just voicing an opinion, which for those hoping for intelligent conversation on the issue could be seen as unbeneficial noise. (I stand guilty as charged)

It is patently obvious for those paying attention that one way or another, in the world at large, the excrement has reached terminal velocity on its path to the high speed rotating device.

Keeping in mind I have a wife and two daughters I'd like to think I can look after I would be derelict in my duty if I did not give serious consideration of available options regarding a course of action in light of what might transpire...

Having said all that, for me at least is the following conundrum...

1) Since I choose to err on the side of pessimism, because I get to enjoy more suprises that way, the suprise in this scenario would be that we all ascend and live happily ever after. In that sense I admire Bill and Inelias efforts in researching how that might be brought about on some massive scale.

2) The current system collapses entirely and it turns out to be every man / community for themselves

3) Things continue to mosey along pretty much as they always have...

In light of options two and three eventuating is where I think the discussion regarding a better form of rule is of the utmost importance. Why? Because nature abhors a vacuum and should we be faced with the collapse scenario unless we can present a truly viable alternative we very much risk having the command and control structure ressurect itself. OMG here we go again.

An even more difficult scenario is option three because unless we find some means to alter the current paradigm I am truly apprehensive about the world our children might inherit.

I respectfully suggest that the nature of this topic and others like it can and should be discussed at Avalon by those who are looking for an answer to these issues in the sense of the wider context.

Since Avalon is a microcosm of the world at large albeit populated with a more gifted and intelligent dynamic can anyone suggest where a cogent discussion of options or solutions might be undertaken if not here??

cheers

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Dorok (here)
Just my two cents after reading every last word in this thread...

If the OP's original post is not being meaningfully debated, and the OP is deactivated, why is this thread still open?

Because some things never die

[noxon medem]

Thanks a lot to Chicodoodoo for raising important questions in a civilized and well formulated manner.
You have been treated unfair here by the mods, Paul in particular, and the abuse of power he manifest
on this thread, and bias towards you, more than proves your point of worry concerning the present day
Avalon Forum. Encouraging, and thanking, personal attacks on you, and the impugning of your motives,
is an untolereable double standart from a mod, if he want
to maintain an overall easy authority.
Seeing how people are being hit with the socalled guidelines of course proves that the mods have lost that one long ago.

I am stunned at this developement, and the rate of loss of quality posters here,
it is very discouraging, and the worst is the total lack of willingness from "leadership" to see that
there is a real problem here, and to adress that problem, instead of silencing all critisism and then
pretending everything is OK. That is the most serious challenge to the "spirit of Avalon".

Chicodoodoo make valid points, and the thread is interesting reading, or should I say Study.
One of many ironies present itself here:

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
Another boring waste of time crap thread, contributes to nothing.
regards to all
roman

That quoted post is to me the absolute lowpoint in the thread, and one of few that deserve
the description he insist on sharing about the thread as such.
I hope that post is not indicative of the quality of the Avalon Forum after "the cleansing".

More could, and should, be said about this. But I am lost for words.
I am not in the best mood, too sad about developements right now.
Even hard pressed to wish you all well at the moment.

PS. I understand that some of the suggestions presented on this thread is
difficult to imply. The discussion however is still valid and potentially constructive.

One thing that should be a fixed policy:
Whenever a post is edited (or deleted) by a Mod, then a PM should be sent
to the member writing that post. Anyway, how small changes have been made.
Can Mods and members comment on this concrete and easily applicable suggestion ?

All well.
nm

[ulli]

Mad Hatter:

We seem to have those upset with this style of thread attempting to put the world right from their viewpoint despite themselves claiming things like energy flows where attention goes etc. I often wonder how they do not see that as slightly hypocritical...

Obviously this sentence refers to my post and so please allow me to straighten something out here
since hypocrisy is not something I like to be accused of.

I was not upset at all with this style of this thread, on the contrary,
people fascinate me and perhaps you should have called me a voyeur, but not a hypocrite.

I was baffled that Chico was so insistent in his demands and was curious
if he might switch to a more positive attitude now that he was back.

I love to see people suddenly let go of some obsession, and get back into happy camper mode.
This clearly was one option before him, since the other route was clearly marked to be a dead end.

Being obsessive myself has taught me that what I focus on seems to come back at me magnified.

At this moment I have the pleasure of talking about myself,
and making full use of Avalon for giving me that platform.

It's therapy.

Whether you read this or not makes little difference to me,

I thank you for having given me food for thought...