Banning for misalignment

[learninglight]

Hi all

Imo we need to remember WE are INVITED to join this forum; When you are accepted as a member here its due to YOU AGREEING with the rules and regs, which are in place to keep this forum running to the best of it's ability; No one makes you join, it's your choice.
I don't agree with everything that has taken place with members going BUT i accept the requirements set in place here, when/if there comes a time i feel i can no longer live by them i will move on.
It's not what you say but HOW you say it that seems to be the problem with some members who have gone, i mean for example if one of my kids spoke to me the way some put things into words on here i would go ape**** even now as old as they are!!
Its sad to see members go but thats life, we learn we move on
This forum IS BILLS to do as he wishes, we are guests here, lets just remember that and get on with doing what we are invited here to do. No disrespect meant to anyone just my feelings and honest opinion.

much love

[Anchor]

Posted by Malcolm Linus (here)
All should have the opportunity to leave by his or her own choice, even if the end result will be their person ejected by force. It's a gentleman's attitude, and I would very much like to see those who choose to give their time to defend this community go the extra step here, as I suspect it would be a good reflection of Bill Ryan's ideals.

Very often this is actually the case!

Also I would say people here are not stupid. They KNOW when they are skating on thin ice! The time for being gentlemanly is before you push it too far - pretty simple.

--

I've been thinking about this thread in general.

The notion of being "martyred" by being "unfairly" ejected from a forum, for pontificating about how a forum should be run (that isn't yours in the first place) is hilarious. Think about it, it is a cosmic joke. Forums are an analogy. An illusion within the illusion! This is a trap I once found myself in on this very forum. Seriously if you cant get out of that one, then how do you expect to get out of the real one that poses as the Real Life that is being ever distorted by TPTB ?

We all buy into these illusions at different levels, and consequently, for many of us humans, dealing with changes in them, and especially changes that are driven by irreconcilable differences is never going to be easy. Leaving a forum by any means is not the hardest thing anyone can do in life, there are far bigger challenges

Personally I have learned to back away from getting too wrapped up in various forum structures which at one time we may have become particularly accustomed to. They get changed against our preferences and it can be quite annoying, even upsetting. Especially when it is done with a sledge hammer, but it happens - and it doesn't matter.

We harvest what wisdom we may, and then we either adapt or move on.

This forum is not the forum it was when it started, it has been through several phases since the original Project Camalot/Project Avalon days - that does not make it bad, it makes it different.

John..

[K626]

Posted by andywight (here)
I would hope members that are not happy with this thread to read Mr Davis's post in its entirety.

Posted by blake (here)

I am curious as to why any intellectual discussion, on any non violent topic, could possibly trigger such intense criticism, and the seemingly enforced limitation on freedom of speech that some commenting on this thread seem to be advocating whether they realize it or not.

Since no one is forced to read any thread, why does anyone object to any topic on any one thread as long as it is non violent and does not blazingly be rude to anyone? It seems that you, and others prefer that there be limitation on what can and can not be discussed. Why? I don’t believe any thread has any power, except to share knowledge, opinions, and maybe, just maybe widen someone’s perspective to see more than they didn’t see before. They may not agree, but at least maybe they can begin to understand the other human’s perspective; and isn’t that the first step to peaceful co existence?

I guess I am just so puzzled because even if there was an ongoing thread of interested parties talking about this issue about how Avalon could be different, it is just virtual keyboard warriors talking….. no coup could actually take place! But more importantly no one is forced to read it. I may love to be on the debate team, but some people may prefer to be in the band. Isn’t the Avalon forum big enough for us all? Or do we really have to choose? That is what I feel all those reading this particular thread, who were upset by the thread, is forcing a point on, that should not have to be forced. Freedom of speech is healthy on so many levels for all, when done with respect.

People can talk about love and light all they want, words can be, after all very cheap. But in my opinion, until right action is shown by humans seeking to understand those they may disagree with, as long as people have fear where no real threat exists, then humans will continue to mistreat each other and this new model of society that Mr. Ryan speaks of will never come to be.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

Thank you Mr Davis, you are a bright beacon in these oh so muddy waters.

See when you say that it casts doubt on all of us. Do you see why we've had enough?

The funniest thing about this thread is that yesterday I looked at Chico's friends and wondered
who would start the next thread...It had to be somebody already posting on Nexus...I guess
my intuition was correct...

Peace

K

[perfectresonance]

Posted by NancyV (here)
If the prize was a dinner date with YOU I would be tempted. You have such a great smile that I almost always cannot resist thanking your posts. In fact, I think you should remove your photo since it has undue influence in you getting more THANKS. This is obviously an unfair tactic!Nancy

I think this thread can stand a bit of off-topic banter, so here goes:

Dinner with me? Golly Nancy... I'm not often lost for words... Thank you.

As for my photo. First the serious bit: I decided that if I was going to take people to task on this forum, I could at least show my real face so people knew who they were dealing with. Now the humourous bit: I'm sorry about the pic - did you expect me to pick one with a surly look? One person that used to be a member here called it my "5#1T-eating grin", and I've carried it as a badge of honour since.

Serious again: I am aware of the power of a smile. In fact, when the Christchurch NZ earthquake (2nd one with deaths) was unfolding and I was participating in discussions, I took the photo down as it seemed so absurd to have that photo next to text discussing potential missing and dead family of fellow Avalon members.

I tell you what - to stop you from perfectresonance induced TFS (Thanking Fatigue Syndrome), why don't YOU find me a pic to put up to be displayed with my posts, and I'll move the 5#1T-eating grin to my profile instead?

P

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Malcolm Linus (here)
All should have the opportunity to leave by his or her own choice, even if the end result will be their person ejected by force. It's a gentleman's attitude, and I would very much like to see those who choose to give their time to defend this community go the extra step here, as I suspect it would be a good reflection of Bill Ryan's ideals. In my opinion, it is not a great sacrifice to send a PM asking the person to leave before doing it by force. It would be a show of respect to those who appreciate the gentleman's way. An ejection without notice can seem brutal to the minds that observe.

Your suggestion presents a quandary to me. Involuntary dismissals are typically issued for someone we determine is using their presence here in ways harmful to the forum. Giving them a further platform, in public on the forum, to continue that behavior, seems counter-productive to me.

We also do not, except in really egregious cases, dismiss a member on first offense. We will make it clear, by various means including "vacations", Private Messages, comments on the forum and deleting (yes - occasionally censoring) posts or parts of posts, that we seek changes in the members behavior.

Instead, those dismissed can argue their case in private, by sending email to staff@projectavalon.net. Such does happen in a fair percentage of cases. Sometimes we read the messages sent by those just dismissed and find more evidence that we did the right thing. Sometimes we find genuine remorse and intent to behave well on the forum. In the later case, we have (at least once that I am aware of) reversed our dismissal and welcomed the person back.

[NancyV]

Posted by perfectresonance (here)

Posted by NancyV (here)
If the prize was a dinner date with YOU I would be tempted. You have such a great smile that I almost always cannot resist thanking your posts. In fact, I think you should remove your photo since it has undue influence in you getting more THANKS. This is obviously an unfair tactic!Nancy

I think this thread can stand a bit of off-topic banter, so here goes:

Dinner with me? Golly Nancy... I'm not often lost for words... Thank you.

As for my photo. First the serious bit: I decided that if I was going to take people to task on this forum, I could at least show my real face so people knew who they were dealing with. Now the humourous bit: I'm sorry about the pic - did you expect me to pick one with a surly look? One person that used to be a member here called it my "5#1T-eating grin", and I've carried it as a badge of honour since.

Serious again: I am aware of the power of a smile. In fact, when the Christchurch NZ earthquake (2nd one with deaths) was unfolding and I was participating in discussions, I took the photo down as it seemed so absurd to have that photo next to text discussing potential missing and dead family of fellow Avalon members.

I tell you what - to stop you from perfectresonance induced TFS (Thanking Fatigue Syndrome), why don't YOU find me a pic to put up to be displayed with my posts, and I'll move the 5#1T-eating grin to my profile instead?

P

Well if we're being serious I would like the photo to STAY! I love it! Every time I look at it I smile.

Nancy

[Donna O]

Perhaps if those few of us who are unhappy take a deep breath and take a moment or two contemplating the sky, the garden, something beautiful that is around us. Think of those we love dearly and try to extend some of that love to our fellow Avalonians....

You may be surprised if I told you just how much love and sunshine is spread around the ‘Mod’s room’, . It has been an absolute pleasure from the moment I stepped in there and if any Avalonian has a thought that any one of them is not a nice person; that anyone of them is out to harm, censor or divide the community….think again!

We are talking dedication, devotion and the absolute best of intentions. I can only hope to follow in their example.

You Avalonians are the best forum crowd I have ever come across and I know that everyone in the 'Mod room' feels the same - including Bill

[perfectresonance]

Posted by NancyV (here)
Well if we're being serious I would like the photo to STAY! I love it! Every time I look at it I smile.

Isn't that just magic?

Imagine if ALL of us put our BEST big smile photos on our posts?

I wonder if we'd find it easier to be nice to people?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2xB4dbdNSXY

I hope one day, you'll join us.
And the world will live as one.

[Sowelu]

I think we need a 3 strike process. 1.. 2... 3.. then StTTTTTTTTTRIKE ur out.
Friendly debating is not the same as being malicious towards anothers beliefs/opinions.
I feel most of us do have a good handle on the difference.
People just need to triple edit their "angry" posts/threads and THINK REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY HARD before clicking submit.
How will this be percieved? how many will see this? Who is this really for?
IS THIS NECESSARY?

[Humble Janitor]

Dissenting voices MUST be allowed.

Why do you think that there's another forum full of former Avalonians? Obviously, SOMETHING alienated them.

[Shezbeth]

Personally, I like Chicodoodoo. I like his energy, and his willingess to push the envelope.

However.

It does not do to play hopscotch in a potential minefield.

Just sayin',....

[gigha]

Nelly.. you could not give me enough
of anything to be a mod on Avalon.
my hat off to you all..
past and present .xx

[buckminster fuller]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Personally, I like Chicodoodoo. I like his energy, and his willingess to push the envelope.

However.

It does not do to play hopscotch in a potential minefield.

Just sayin',....

I don't think chico was "playing". What is really the purpose behind a post like this one ? Is it like switching on the projector lights on you ? A display of your very own wiseness ? It is precisely that kind of attitude that forced chico in a corner before he got overwhelmed with sheeps getting ego rushes fueled by the fear of judgement from other members.

Collabos.

Peace

[shijo]

Posted by perfectresonance (here)
(sigh)

How does the Avalon community view this question?

"Sir? Why are you insisting on slamming your head into a wall?"

"Because it feels so good when I stop".


I challenge you to see how good it will feel when we all stop hitting our heads on this particular wall.


Do you really think another thread will have another outcome?


99.9% of active members are happily carrying on making excellent use out of this Forum and it's collective wisdom.


You may consider this before deciding to align or not to.

i dont usually get involved in this stuff here but an individual matters, an individual life may just be worth more than the universe,depends how deep the compassion goes i guess, i would personally give them all another go at it and see how it goes,we miss most of them really....

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by perfectresonance (here)

Posted by sunnyrap (here)
I have to say I've been amazingly entertained by this whole discussion--especially when members use humor to disarm otherwise volatile remarks.

In that spirit, I've decided to start a game of chance.



The objective? Pick the date that Andy will be unsubscribed from Avalon.

"Never" is a valid choice and not at all discouraged.

PM me your picks everyone, and I'll update this post with people's guesses.

The prize? A dinner date with Bill or Inelia. Or Bill and Inelia. Not sure. Might have to ask them first.

Even though I doubt it happening, let me just tell ya, don't you get knocked off perfectnuggetry.
You manage to bring a sense of positivity to the forum that is needed.
If you do get banned, I will have to hunt you down and carrot ya.
Not too bad at all, for a kiwi that is.

[andywight]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Personally, I like Chicodoodoo. I like his energy, and his willingess to push the envelope.

However.

It does not do to play hopscotch in a potential minefield.

Just sayin',....

I don't think chico was "playing". What is really the purpose behind a post like this one ? Is it like switching on the projector lights on you ? A display of your very own wiseness ? It is precisely that kind of attitude that forced chico in a corner before he got overwhelmed with sheeps getting ego rushes fueled by the fear of judgement from other members.

Collabos.

Peace

Well said Mr buckminster fuller, thank you.

[Shezbeth]

Posted by buckminster fuller (here)
I don't think chico was "playing". What is really the purpose behind a post like this one ? Is it like switching on the projector lights on you ? A display of your very own wiseness ? It is precisely that kind of attitude that forced chico in a corner before he got overwhelmed with sheeps getting ego rushes fueled by the fear of judgement from other members.

You take things too seriously.

No, you're right. He wasn't 'playing', so I will expand on the metaphor.

Having already been given a week 'vacation' he knew full well what he was getting himself into. Jumping around on the same grounds, poking the same sore spot,... sorry, those cheeky metaphors again.

<ahem>
Exhibiting the same behavior that got him suspended in the first place is not a good way to go about objecting to the suspension OR the state of affairs in the place of suspension. Consequently his voice, one of the most passionate/prominant voices on this message board has been silenced indefinitely. While there is the chance that his banning may be revoked at some point, odds are he has been banned to the detriment of those who never got a chance to hear from him or interact with him. His only recourse is to go elsewhere which is not a bad thing, it just is. Still, there are better and more effective ways to voice dissent.

Thank you for recognizing my wisdom, though it was not intended as self-aggrandizement.

Afterthought - Traitor to whom pray tell?

[qbeac]

Posted by andywight (here)
Here is the reason Paul gave for banning Chicodoodoo from Avalon (a quote from the Avalon forum Guidelines)…. (…….)

How does the Avalon community view this question?

Hi everyone, 5 stars to this Poll started by andywight. Congratulations to you, Andy!

In Post 193 (pag. 10), NancyV wrote:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post219729

This forum [Avalon]… is going along just fine for most of us. A few people want to reorganize a few thousand people…

NancyV says “most” of us and “few” versus “thousand.”

But so far the Poll is not reflecting the estimation done by NancyV. In fact, so far it’s showing the opposite: there are more people who prefer option 2 of the Poll.

So, we will wait and see if that first tendency remains the same or changes.

Also, in my opinion, there are at least (but not only) two very important concepts (or key pieces of information) that apply directly to this discussion: 1) the JFK speech titled “The President and the Press”, and 2) the concept of Freedom of speech (or expression):

Post #127, pag. 7. JFK speech, “The President and the Press” (1961)
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post219355

Post #253, pag 13. Freedom of speech
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post220517

Without taking into consideration the wisdom and spirit of the information explained by JFK in that speech and the profound implications of the concept of Freedom of speech, I don’t think this debate could be properly understood, analyzed, or put into context.

[ThePythonicCow]

qbeac - I did respond to your question regarding JFK's speech. However I did not respond to any of your four attempts to ask it:

• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post219355
• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post219499
• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post220517
• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post220532

Rather I responded to sandy, when she referenced your "question". My sense was that she was asking in good faith, and deserved an answer. You can read my reply to sandy at Post #227 of Censorship here?.

At some point, I consider repeatedly asking the same question to be a form of trolling.

I cannot tell, not being a mind reader, whether you are intentionally disrupting for the sake of disruption, or whether you honestly believe that it is important to run this forum the way you envision, and are stirring the pot with the intention of creating a ground swell of demand for such changes. But having made the case for whatever changes you have in mind, and the reasons therefore, several moderators and supportive members have explained, with some care, what we do, why we do it, and that we intend to continue doing it (moderating the content and membership of this forum.)

Once that became crystal clear, continuing to rattle the cages for change serves no useful purpose ... leaving me to speculate what harmful purpose you might have in mind.

[nearing]

Oh man, i really liked Chicodoodoo.