Billy Meier VS Alex Collier

[DNA]

In the case of Alex Collier I've never come to satisfactory terms in view of his material. I'm not denouncing it, I just don't personally vibe with it. Part of my problem with Collier is that Billy Meier has gone on record denoucing him and calling him a fraud, saying he just repackages the Meier material and puts a new spin on it.
That's pretty damning as far as I"m concerned, because Meier may have some delusians of grandeur, but, I believe 100% that he is indeed a contactee of the highest order.
In Collier's defense, there is Val Valerian, one of the absolute smartest guy's out there, and a true paradim destroyer in the most positive sense. If Val Valerian says Collier is legit than who the heck am I to say he isn't.

An Open Letter from Alex Collier

July 14, 2009

As many of you are aware, I am being bitterly attacked from the Billy Meier/FIGU camp, especially by their U.S. publicist, Michael Horn. I am being addressed as a liar and a fraud. Apparently, because I changed my name and at most times in my life during on going contacts, I chose to not share this reality with people who were acquaintances. Why would I? You also need to know that I have addressed this issue publicly in earlier lectures years ago. But maybe it’s necessary to deal with it for the last time.

In the early 90's when I came forward, the talks were very small. More like living room chats, just a hand full of people. I stopped speaking in 2002. After being addressed in front of my mailbox by three well dressed men that were part of a "Program", I was told to "Shut the f*#@ up". I was then told that friends were going to be hurt if I did not shut up. The names were given to me. They were not kidding and it wasn't a joke. They were going to kill friends and family members.

Fast forward the internet. I had no idea that the information would go where it has. In 1990 when Morenay had asked me to speak and share "some of my experiences" I reluctantly said yes. I spoke to my Dad regarding this. My dad had an experience of my contacts when we lived in upper state NY. We spoke of it that morning and as my Dad was a strong catholic, his questions were very direct. I felt that if I was going to speak he needed to know. Dad was afraid of what would not only happen to me but our family. My brothers and sisters, and himself by government and religious harassment, etc.... We spoke about using another name to share the information in some way to protect my family.

At times in my life while contacts were on going it has been very difficult and hard to share it. I had a head full of knowledge, and experiences but could not share it. I was told that at those times there was no one I could truly trust. When I did not listen to the “Andromedans”, they would prove to be right. Supposed friends betrayed and stole from me. Enough said about that.

I have shared the information that I was asked to. I don't sell anything. I was told by the Andromedans not to make a business of this in any way. And so I haven't. I have tried very hard to keep a low profile and protect my family from hurt and prejudice, by those who don't give a damn about my family. All they want is to keep their name in lights and beat their chest, by declaring they have the secret and they are the only ones with the truth. That Mr. Billy Meier is the only contactee in the entire world. That’s the lie, Ladies and Gentlemen. Billy is not and nor has he ever been the only one.

I am very saddened that many researchers and authors who have found their own evidence to collaborate information shared by the Andromedans and other races are now being attacked for it. They are also accused of being involved in and perpetrating a fraud. Dr Salla, Paola Harris, and Col.Wendelle Stevens to just name a few. They have tirelessly dedicated themselves to helping humanity. Mr. Horn’s accusations are despicable.

Paola Harris is one of the most honest and sincere persons on earth, whose integrity is beyond reproach. It’s disgusting that she should continue to be abused and harassed by this man only because she interviewed me. She was simply doing her job in the most objective way.

Dr. Salla's efforts to help bring humanity together and see the bigger picture will have a profound effect on humanity in a positive way for decades. And I also feel that Dr Salla's honesty is beyond reproach.

Col. Stevens, whom I met for the first time in Japan, is a real gentleman. He has tirelessly researched contactees for 50 years. His should be the only voice any of us listen to regarding who is a real contactee or not. And his work is probably the largest single contribution to humanity regarding Exopolitics. Point of fact.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I frankly at this point don't care if any of you believe or not. All the research, all of the sacrifices everyone in this field has made and will make is due to endless hours of lost family time, as well as the loss of family and peace of mind. And of course the ridicule from others, who have no clue how huge and important this subject really is. This has been and was done for humanity. This is for us as a race to have a new perspective, a new place to start when the lies of our false history collapse under the weight of truth, that we are not alone and have never been; a revelation that we are so much more than we have been told.

The “lie” is that Billy Meier is the only contactee. And if the "Pleiadians" (excuse me) "The Plejarians" (they changed their name, too), told Billy he was the only one, then they have lied. You must keep this in prospective also as well. There are in fact many contactees in the world. I have been told that there are at least 1,407 at this present moment. You may be one of them yourself. I think we should continue to move forward and help humanity achieve its potential.
Ladies and Gentlemen, in closing I have given what I can. It’s out there and that's what I agreed to do. You can choose to read it, listen to it, and research it or not. The information is the Andromedans' prospective. That's it. I would of course always encourage you to research the field. There is a wealth of information out there by many great dedicated researchers and speakers. NO ONE HAS THE WHOLE STORY. But it’s for you to discover who you are and your place in this drama of conscious and spiritual evolution. Be your own savior. Take the pressure off of GOD and help yourself. The worst case is you will be an inspiration and leader to others, to invest in themselves and see themselves as they truly are: genetic royalty and incredible beings.

I feel it’s necessary to add this last clarification for you. I have no vested interest in this information. And as such I really could care less what anyone thinks. My intention was to share the information and give a different prospective. I have had a lot of growth to go through and am now the father of five. I must put the welfare of my family first and move beyond this sideshow with FIGU/Michael Horn.

I am done with this. Think what you will, but please keep your minds open. It’s the only way your life will work…

Respectfully,
Alex Collier

And now from Michael Horn the American representitive for Billy Meier.

Alex Collier's Stupid Stuff
The Delusional Writing of the Imaginary “Alex Collier”

“Alex Collier”, who claims to be a “genuine, life-long, Andromedan contactee”, wrote the following “predictions”. This in itself is a nice trick since this fifty or sixty-something year-old fellow has only existed since about the early 1990s. Do the math.
Before then he was known as Ralph Amagran, a former IRS agent, who, at the time that I first met him in 1986, was also unemployed and searching for something to do, or perhaps become. (He apparently found both in the creation of a new identity as “Alex Collier”.) It was Amagran who first presented me with the Contact Notes of Billy Meier, for which I remain grateful to this day.
However, it is apparently this same amazing information of Meier’s that he plagiarized, in some cases, and that he based part of his false identity and life story on in order to make money and create a following…of very gullible people.
Among these gullible, as well as overly ambitious, people is Dr. Michael Salla, one of the “leaders” of an equally fictitious area of study known as “exopolitics”. Salla himself is distinguished by having lost his academic status, job and work standing in the U.S. – according to information proudly provided by his cohorts at “exopolitics”. (No explanation is provided for why academia gave Salla such an unambiguous boot in the butt. Nor is there an explanation as to why his unequivocal expulsion warranted exopolitics’ bestowing on Salla an award for “Intellectual Courage”, based on the kind of professional denouncement that is usually, dare I say normally, considered shameful rather than praiseworthy.)
Seemingly oblivious to the inconsistencies in “Collier’s” story, several years ago Salla defiantly offered the predictions below, as evidence of this same “Collier’s” genuineness. To this day, despite my numerous requests for him to either substantiate or defend this information, or admit that he was wrong to promote such an obviously delusional lunatic, Salla has stubbornly refused, perhaps in order to demonstrate the kind of irrationality, and/or incompetence, that resulted in his being not only unceremoniously expelled from an actually credible educational institution but also denied further employment in the field.
Michael Horn

[Omni]

Billy Meier is delusional. He says he's the only contactee on the planet. That alone damns him just as much if not more than Alex Collier. I personally don't see much validity coming from Meier. He's been caught hoaxing things. He's been caught with models of the ships seen in his photos. Granted I've been told he is a legitimate contactee, but I side with Collier over Horn/Meier easily in this dispute personally.

[crosby]

i have never paid much attention to billy meier. i hadn't really ever heard of him until about a year ago. but i just can't get into where he's coming from. and i have only watched one video with alex collier. i found him to be a good speaker and not over the top. it's hard to believe everything that you hear from one particular person, mainly because we are not the person who has been getting the information from "out there." i wasn't even aware that there was a feud going on between the two. i say as long as someone is willing to come forward and tell the world what they've been shown or told, let them do it. we will all have to make the choice as to whether or not the information has any validity.
regards, corson

[ulli]

I think Omni, you have more to offer than either one of them,

but you will also have to be vigilant.

Your sensitivity makes you like a peeled grape.

[Cidersomerset]

Hi DNA I'm not sure about Alex Collier, lovely chap his interviews seem sincere and positive who knows ? Michael Horne on the otherhand is a very passionate and colourfull character who has invested many years in support of Billy Meier and was also instumental in the making of the recent film Biography of Billys Life 'The Silent Revolution of Truth' so named by a young plejarian girl who won a competition on their home world and met Billy as a prize.The documentry is a colourful account of his life and worth a watch whether you believe or not. I've heard some of Michael Hornes interviews and he is blinkered where Billy is concerned which is ok his life........Now Billy on the other hand is an enigma I've seen several Col Wendelle Stevens and others interviews and he feels genuine to me. Stevens Said when they flew to Switzeland the team were inteviewed by the 'alpha bet' agencies so they obviously had him under observation very telling in my opinion,why spy on a hoaxer ! Each time they went to see Billy back in the seventies/eighties, when he was still giving interviews he was very open and gave Wendelle and his team of private Detectives/cameraman full access to whatever they wanted.I also recall Japanese TV had a documentry crew based there for a while.Anyway Col Stevens was convinced and he gave a good 231min presentation at the UFO convention in 2006.....I would give you links but I don't Know how yet ha ha ......I've got to go to bed now ....work tommorrow cheers Steve the 'cosmic postie'

[DNA]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
Billy Meier is delusional. He says he's the only contactee on the planet. That alone damns him just as much if not more than Alex Collier. I personally don't see much validity coming from Meier. He's been caught hoaxing things. He's been caught with models of the ships seen in his photos. Granted I've been told he is a legitimate contactee, but I side with Collier over Horn/Meier easily in this dispute personally.

For someone who is delusional he has provided more proof for his contacts than anyone on the planet. That being said, he still may be delusional LOL
Visions of grandeour and the EGO being inflated to impoosible capacity are surelly a side effect of being a contactee,,and one of such magnitude as Meier it would only
make it worse. That being said though,,,there comes a time when you have to get off the fence,,and after going over his stuff for six years,,,I'm personally convinced he is in fact a contactee.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dxkn4zbcQwM

Posted by corson (here)
i have never paid much attention to billy meier. i hadn't really ever heard of him until about a year ago. but i just can't get into where he's coming from. and i have only watched one video with alex collier. i found him to be a good speaker and not over the top. it's hard to believe everything that you hear from one particular person, mainly because we are not the person who has been getting the information from "out there." i wasn't even aware that there was a feud going on between the two. i say as long as someone is willing to come forward and tell the world what they've been shown or told, let them do it. we will all have to make the choice as to whether or not the information has any validity.
regards, corson

I respect your personal opinion on Alex Collier. I am of the opinion that most of us have a god given BS detector,,and it should never be overlooked people's personal feelings in regards to body language/ tone of voice etc.

I would suggest diving into some Billy Meier stuff. When I first looked into him I had to find the RARE first edition books and purchase them at $160+ and that wasn't Meier charging this,,,it was due to Wendelle Stevens only publishing 3000 copies at his own expense since no publisher would touch it at the time.

Reason's for checking Meier out.
His photo's are amazing,,,and even though a lot of work has been done to discredit one of them "wedding cake",,folks have to realize that intelligence agencies get a pretty large budget not only to stop information from coming out,,,but,,,to muddy the waters with disinformation.

Photo's were first published in 1975 and apart from the lamest photo's, modern special effects folks have not had any luck reproducing them.
And this is from a one armed security guard before the days of photoshop and the like.

His predictions are pretty impressive. Unlike Collier,,,Meier is almost always right.

He has provided substantial proof. Along with photos and home movies,,,he has produced a metallic sample examined by a university of arizona professor who said it was an alloy not of this world.

[Omni]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Hi DNA I'm not sure about Alex Collier, lovely chap his interviews seem sincere and positive who knows ? Michael Horne on the otherhand is a very passionate and colourfull character who has invested many years in support of Billy Meier and was also instumental in the making of the recent film Biography of Billys Life 'The Silent Revolution of Truth' so named by a young plejarian girl who won a competition on their home world and met Billy as a prize.The documentry is a colourful account of his life and worth a watch whether you believe or not. I've heard some of Michael Hornes interviews and he is blinkered where Billy is concerned which is ok his life........Now Billy on the other hand is an enigma I've seen several Col Wendelle Stevens and others interviews and he feels genuine to me. Stevens Said when they flew to Switzeland the team were inteviewed by the 'alpha bet' agencies so they obviously had him under observation very telling in my opinion,why spy on a hoexer ! Each time they went to see Billy back in the seventies/eighties, when he was still giving interviews he was very open and gave Wendelle and his team of private Detectives/cameraman full access to whatever they wanted.I also recall Japanese TV had a documentry crew based there for a while.Anyway Col Stevens was convined and he gave a good 231min presentation at the UFO conenvention in 2006.....I would give you links but I don't Know how yet ha ha ......I've got to go to bed now ....work tommorrow cheers Steve the 'cosmic postie'

While I wouldn't say Meier is a fraud. Horn is very vindictive and not a very pleasant human being from what I've seen. I witnessed him post on another forum. He was very rude, and offered little but remarks about how stupid people are to question the Billy Meier material.

Alex Collier offers his public statements without attacking anyone. Horn does not. Horn is nowhere near benevolent IMHO.

Meier for one example, is caught hoaxing his 'lazer gun' from supposedly Plejaren. It was shown to be a kids toy that was sold the same time as when he came up with it. Basically he modified a toy, and said it was a alien weapon.... That much is pretty conclusive...

He also claimed a picture was a Plejaren, but it turned out to be a dancer from a TV show(an attractive one). That picture is still circulating as a Plejaren. he later said agents sabotaged him placing that picture in his film. But he didn't seem to say that when the picture came out. Only after it was found to be a fraudulent claim...... If it really was a sabotage, you'd think he'd catch it before releasing the picture, not after it was found to be a dancer(or something like that) from a TV show....

Funny Horn would attack Collier for changing his name. To me, an entire alien race changing their name speaks more to me than a guy changing his name to protect his family.

If Meier is legit, he did a disservice to his credibility by hiring Horn. Who is not a benevolent individual from what I've seen of him. He reminds me of the PR guys presidents use. Not a messenger of truth...

Posted by ulli (here)
I think Omni, you have more to offer than either one of them,

but you will also have to be vigilant.

Your sensitivity makes you like a peeled grape.

I will keep your wisdom in mind. I am sensitive. I am far more infiltrated than either Collier or Meier though. My mind is not my own Thanks for your kind words though.

Posted by DNA (here)

For someone who is delusional he has provided more proof for his contacts than anyone on the planet. That being said, he still may be delusional LOL
Visions of grandeour and the EGO being inflated to impoosible capacity are surelly a side effect of being a contactee,,and one of such magnitude as Meier it would only
make it worse. That being said though,,,there comes a time when you have to get off the fence,,and after going over his stuff for six years,,,I'm personally convinced he is in fact a contactee.

When saying he's delusional I'm not saying he's not a contactee. Just that he holds some big delusions. Such as he is the only contactee on the planet.

And just as he has evidence to corroborate his claims, he has obvious fraudulent claims too. I mean at what point is obvious fraud disproving of his claims? My theory is he was contacted, but he went to lengths to prove it that were not of integrity. He has been part of obvious hoaxes. Most people think once you are shown to fake something, it cancels out any thing hard to dispute, such as the sounds he recorded of the ships.

It's no coincidence he has more evidence than any other contactee. And it's no coincidence he has been proven to be hoaxing as well. UFOlogy is an infiltrated field. Meier is no exception. Anyone making waves in that field is likely to be infiltrated in some way from what I've seen.

[ulli]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
While I wouldn't say Meier is a fraud. Horn is very vindictive and not a very pleasant human being from what I've seen. I witnessed him post on another forum. He was very rude, and offered little but remarks about how stupid people are to question the Billy Meier material.

Alex Collier offers his public statements without attacking anyone. Horn does not. Horn is nowhere near benevolent IMHO.

Meier for one example, is caught hoaxing his 'lazer gun' from supposedly Plejaren. It was shown to be a kids toy that was sold the same time as when he came up with it. Basically he modified a toy, and said it was a alien weapon.... That much is pretty conclusive...

He also claimed a picture was a Plejaren, but it turned out to be a dancer from a TV show(an attractive one). That picture is still circulating as a Plejaren. he later said agents sabotaged him placing that picture in his film. But he didn't seem to say that when the picture came out. Only after it was found to be a fraudulent claim...... If it really was a sabotage, you'd think he'd catch it before releasing the picture, not after it was found to be a dancer(or something like that) from a TV show....

Funny Horn would attack Collier for changing his name. To me, an entire alien race changing their name speaks more to me than a guy changing his name to protect his family.

If Meier is legit, he did a disservice to his credibility by hiring Horn. Who is not a benevolent individual from what I've seen of him. He reminds me of the PR guys presidents use. Not a messenger of truth...

Posted by ulli (here)
I think Omni, you have more to offer than either one of them,

but you will also have to be vigilant.

Your sensitivity makes you like a peeled grape.

I will keep your wisdom in mind. I am sensitive. I am far more infiltrated than either Collier or Meier though. My mind is not my own Thanks for your kind words though.

We here know that because you have been so open about it all along.
It's what makes you more authentic and credible, in a way.
You lay the cards on the table by stating that you are aware that you are being manipulated.

If Alex Collier could have only done something like that, investigated all he could about stuff appearing inside his mind,
I would have watched more of his videos.

What I am wondering now is if all that chatter isn't something put out there into the airways,
and while the vast majority have on their ear muffs, people like yourself and others are picking up signals.

I'd like to know what you have to say about that idea.
Or have you been addressed in person, with them calling you by your name?

[Omni]

Posted by ulli (here)
We here know that because you have been so open about it all along.
It's what makes you more authentic and credible, in a way.
You lay the cards on the table by stating that you are aware that you are being manipulated.

If Alex Collier could have only done something like that, investigated all he could about stuff appearing inside his mind,
I would have watched more of his videos.

What I am wondering now is if all that chatter isn't something put out there into the airways,
and while the vast majority have on their ear muffs, people like yourself and others are picking up signals.

I'd like to know what you have to say about that idea.
Or have you been addressed in person, with them calling you by your name?

It is definitely a channel that is catered directly to me in my case. They have called me by my name. They have gone over distinct memories of mine while I was a child(that I had lost due to not having that pathway activated for such a long time). They have gone over events that have taken place in my life as well. They react to everything I read. They punish me for actions I do(exposing them). They appear to be testing things on me at times(although most of it seems to be perfected technology). It's not something I'm just tapping into. It's technology directly involving me. That much has been proven to me.

I think there is an element of some sort with some people having 'schitzophrenia' picking up 'airwaves' of things that most don't. but in my case, it's directly catered to me and my experience and beliefs. It's a technological connection in my case. Not a natural thing.

[DNA]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Hi DNA I'm not sure about Alex Collier, lovely chap his interviews seem sincere and positive who knows ? Michael Horne on the otherhand is a very passionate and colourfull character who has invested many years in support of Billy Meier and was also instumental in the making of the recent film Biography of Billys Life 'The Silent Revolution of Truth' so named by a young plejarian girl who won a competition on their home world and met Billy as a prize.The documentry is a colourful account of his life and worth a watch whether you believe or not. I've heard some of Michael Hornes interviews and he is blinkered where Billy is concerned which is ok his life........Now Billy on the other hand is an enigma I've seen several Col Wendelle Stevens and others interviews and he feels genuine to me. Stevens Said when they flew to Switzeland the team were inteviewed by the 'alpha bet' agencies so they obviously had him under observation very telling in my opinion,why spy on a hoaxer ! Each time they went to see Billy back in the seventies/eighties, when he was still giving interviews he was very open and gave Wendelle and his team of private Detectives/cameraman full access to whatever they wanted.I also recall Japanese TV had a documentry crew based there for a while.Anyway Col Stevens was convinced and he gave a good 231min presentation at the UFO convention in 2006.....I would give you links but I don't Know how yet ha ha ......I've got to go to bed now ....work tommorrow cheers Steve the 'cosmic postie'

What a wonderfull post Cidersomerset! Thank you very much! I also read the material concerning Wendelle Steven's having to go through the alphabet agencies in order to see Meier.
While we are mentioning alphabet agencies,,,here is a letter from an intelligence officer addressed to Wendelle Stevens in concerning Billy Meier.

taken from-

Contact from the Pleiades



**********

LETTER FROM A SECURITY AGENT:



Wendelle C. Stevens

Lt. Col., USAF (Ret)

Care of:

GENESIS 3 Publishing Inc

P.O. Drawer JJ, Munds Park.AZ 89017

Dear Mr Stevens

A friend of mine, Tom Farr, dropped off a copy of MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES. I found it very Interesting. Tom had previously given me another book about Billy Meier, which was also interesting.

The following is information you might find interesting. The American Government did what could be called an extensive soft touch investigation of Billy, when he first attracted public attention to himself, to find out if the contact was in fact for real. The Decision was in his favor. It was extensive investigation, because of the unusual features in Billy´s case.

Billy, as an individual, and a citizen of another country, had an American intelligence gathering organization look him over from ass hole to appetite. He passed the inspection rather well, but has not gone off the deep end, as predicted by the personality profile done on him. It of course goes without saying that he had the intelligence gathering community of his own country look him over.

The American investigation was of the light touch vanity (forfenglighet), meaning use no force, make no scars, and leave no traces of the investigation. Which is to say play tourist, pack a camera, and take a lot of pictures, tell a lot of lies, and ask a lot of questions. Host countries(vertslandets-) intelligence systems get pissed(lei), if they catch you screwing off on their turf. So do not accuse us of any break-ins, and that type of thing, because it happened back in the days when Billy was in fact liberal with what he gave away. Your book indicates that he has up-graded his record keeping since the early days.

In the other book on Billy there was a big deal about the films, and having them tested. In one specific incident the film tested was believed to be a copy, and not the original negative as Billy thought. Sorry about that. The way we got copies of Billy´s pictures was by paying off the man who handled the film processing for Billy. The man simply ordered a second set of pictures for us, and a second copy of the negatives, at an attractive profit, and the man often had copies made for himself. In a couple of cases we took the original copy of the negative, for the type of lab checks that you wanted to make.

We also sent some garbage film through to the same processing company by the same store, under Billy´s name, to keep the boys doing the film processing honest. We did establish that there was a little hankey pankey going on at the processing plant, and/or in the mail some place. Someone else was getting off with the first copy of the negatives most of the time. Several times, according to the experts, our copy of the negative would be about the fifth one.

All intelligence communities are well aware that vast volumes of bull **** comes and goes in the UFO contactee game, as part of turf(dekke) but pictures make strong evidence, which is almost impossible to fake. Because pictures are the quickest way to find who in fact is telling the truth, they often get stolen. Or, why screw around with the bull ****, when the proof is in the film. The Intelligence gathering people are also aware of how to intercept mail, and bribe (bestikke) store owners. When the bribe was set up we did not know how agreeable Billy was going to be about passing out samples.

In the book you touched on one of the most important of all things about UFO´s, and may not have realized the true importance, to the history of UFOs, in what you said.

Page 219; "The visitor anticipated............and they immediately associated them with the Anti-Christ, of Christian literature and wanted nothing more to do with the situation."

The problem that Billy had with Karl Veit of Wiesbaden, is the key to understanding most of the American Government and Western Europe Government´s approach to UFO´s. In 1945, when it was first proven that UFO´s were real from space, operated by intelligent being, most of whom where human in form, the American Government did a soft touch check to see what the great unwashed public would say, and how the public would respond to UFO´s, and space people, if the President informed the public over National radio.

The results of the investigation would truly frost a thinking mans´ balls. The public´s response was all bad. 97% of the public took one of two approaches. Shoot first and ask questions later. Or call the UFO´S agents of the devil, the prince of the power of the air, the ant-Christ, and set up an even worse situation, where UFOs would became a real negative religious issue. What was surprising was the response of the Religious leadership, which was by far worse than the general public´s response. It could only be called grim news.

The science community showed no leadership at all, just a super case of stupidity, and prejudice.

As you might guess, the original investigations were by military men, under orders from General Marshal, under the direction of the President. And if you know your military men, finding one who wants to get into a fight with the preachers, over what is, or is not the Anti-Christ, when neither the military man, nor the preacher know a hell of a lot of factual information about either the Ant-Christ, or the UFOs, would be a lot like sending a blind person out to spot UFO´s. Just as soon as the blind man spots the first UFO, the military will get into the fight with the preachers over the Anti-Christ.

To say that the military seriously avoided the potential conflict with the religious community would be an understatement. To say that the military community successfully avoided a fight with the religious community over UFOs would be an accurate observation. To say that the military was real damned sneaky (fordømt lusket) about how they informed the public about UFOs, would also be an accurate observation.

The military mind will draw conclusions that the religious mind will not. The military mind quickly figured out that if the UFO´s wanted to take over the world, they had the speed, science, and fire power to do so. Hence, the military concluded UFO´s were working by other rules. The general nature of the rules the individuals in the UFOs would be working under, could be projected, based on previous contact records, however skimpy the records.

In other words, the military figured it was a safe assumption that the UFOs would not radically change their actions in modern times, but would stick with the casual and miss system of the past.

The military mind drew one conclusion. The single most important thing to do in the situation it was in, namely sitting on some hot, highly controversial information, was to keep the general public from a bad response by controlling the public´s response to UFOs. In other words keep that damned religious mentality out of the issues involved, as long as possible.

But, do not ever say that the military never did anything about informing the public about the existence of UFO´s. That will mean you have not figured out the methods used by the Government to spread the word about UFOs. You might say the military took the Bible´s advice about not to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.

The Military pulled the very same trick that Moses pulled, when he did not like the attitude of his troops, after crossing the Red Sea. He took the time to grow a new batch troops, who´s response and thinking was more to his liking. And that is what the military did about UFO´s.

The military also found a problem as bad, or worse, than the religious mind. Have you have ever noticed, Scientist are about as bad as the preachers, when it comes to UFO´s? Especially in the old days. What you missed is the little detail that Scientist, of the old pre-UFO school, got their basic concept of the Universe from an insane preacher: A Catholic Pope. That basic concept is the idea that man is alone in the Universe, and the only intelligent life in the universe.

Going into the dark ages all societies leaving records, in any amount, left some kind of UFO record. Those that left verbal histories left verbal records of UFOs. In effect it was known prior to the Dark Ages that man was not alone in the Universe, that other intelligent beings were out there screwing around. Even the damned cave and rock drawings show UFO activity.

The Greeks and the Romans also knew that the world was round. The Greeks had even tried to measure the size of the earth using wells and sun light.

The insane Catholic Pope decided that he was the most important thing in the Universe, and that the Universe revolved around him. The basic idea that the world was flat was imposed upon the world by an insane Pope, which in effect made the earth the Center of the universe.. That Pope also expanded on the powers of the Pope, in effect saying that he was not only at the center of the Universe, he was all that was good, smart, and holy at the center of the Universe.

That pope also pitched the idea that man was alone in the Universe. That of course left the Pope the smartest man in the Universe. When the Science-Religion fight of the early science days started, science in general won out. The one idea that the Scientist took from an insane Pope, which they loved as an idea, and used as there very own idea, was the idea that man is alone in the Universe. The idea that man is alone in the Universe, if valid, would the make Scientist the smartest, and best educated beings in the Universe. The Science community´s response to the coming of UFOs, and the possible drop in status from the smartest thing in the Universe, was somewhat worse than the religious communities response to UFOs. UFOs rather obviously, put the modern scientist in the position of being a backward person in knowledge, on a backward world. And farther insulted the scientist, by not bothering to make any contact with him. Few, if any of the scientist involved gave up their status, as the smartest and best educated beings in the universe, willingly. Most of the older ones died with that idea in their head. The idea, man was the only intelligent life in the Universe.

The existence of UFOs - truly lowers the status of the religious and scientific leaders of the world. They resisted such a lowering in their status, particularly the scientist. And here I should clear something up. Mention the word intelligence gathering community, and most people go into some kind of potty training shock, and think they have gone back to messing their pants, and are about to be caught at it. Doing what is called spying on people is an expensive and time consuming operation, generally involving a lot of people. It is surprising how many people think that they have some kind of secret, that makes them worth spying on. Casual surveillance, or simple information gathering, can be done much cheaper. The total amount of information needed, to make a high degree of accuracy decision, about someone like Billy, is in fact not as much as a person would imagine.

In effect, in the early days, if you showed up at Billy´s place, knowing enough about good manners, to bring as much food as you eat, wash as many dishes as you get dirty, and just help around the house, or yard a bit. It was possible to get all the UFO information desired from Billy, and be treated as a respected guest.

Looking into Billy with a professional eye will quickly show that there are a couple of things, which are not "totally normal" for this type of contact. The screw ball hours, and the many changes in location, make it somewhat different from most contacts, which generally proceed on a casual, but regular bases, with some consideration for the contactee. Billy probably holds the record for more bad weather contacts than anyone else. His case has some screwball features, but it had some very good pictures.

In a shared UFO information pool with other Countries, including India, it was noticed that Billy got his contacts whenever a woman, the Indians were watching, was missing. It was speculated that Billy´s female contact could have been one of two women that the India authorities were watching. One was a tall dark haired woman with a very fair completion who, according to what the Indians could find out had been working an area for about 200 years. The other woman was a short, some what dumpy blond, with kind of a flat face. Every time the dumpy blond left India, Billy had a contact. Because the Indian surveillance was of the soft touch type, and far from complete, nothing was ever established. But, for a period of about 2 to 3 years there was a one-to-one relationship between the blond leaving India and Billy having a contact.

And there is something else you might figure out, or work on. It is Billy stumbling onto Military men looking at his contact sites. For all their science, the clowns in the UFO do not always work out every thing to perfection.

As a military officer you were exposed to a few classes in physics. As the book says about the rocks and the gold, the physics are the same, this world, or some other. That means that what is known, about physics here, will also apply up there.

The UFO is has a power source, which is obviously related to gravity, and electro magnetic properties of physics. That is all packed into a small space and effects the world around it. Add to that some cloaking device, and a few stray things, and you have a ship, which will give off a few things in the line of radiation. If the dogs can spot the UFOs, then use dogs, which we did around some military and science bases In the early days. If the TV flutters when one comes by, start from there for making a detection device.

It logically follows that about the time that the Governments got into the business of knowing about UFOs, they also got into learning how to detect the things, when they flew by. And it was a dog, who´s action told us that flying saucer had clocking devices. It did not turn out to be all that hard to make a detection device. The Swiss Government has such devices and obviously uses them.

The last time I had anything to do with such devices, which was a long time ago, and the devices where physically very large because their radios had vacuum tubes, they could be rigged to do several different things, and the American Government was screwing with a model that would give the general direction the UFO was traveling. By now they could be the size of a pack of smokes, and give direction along with the make and model of the UFO. me In the late 50s we could define between about four types of UFOs based on how they effected our devices. If I remember some of the information coming out of Billy´s area, the DALs would normally send out a couple of other ships to scout the area, some time several days in advance, before the contact ship showed up. At that time the devices the Swiss had, could tell the difference between the two types of ships normally used. It could also tell the difference between several of the small ball-shaped probes that might be sent out.

I know it to be a fact that the Swiss Government has contact with Space people. But, like all such contacts, the restriction on who knows about it comes from space. The Swiss in fact probably have the best contact of any country in the world. But, that is speculation on my part.

And here I might should add something. Within the Governments of the world, how many I do not know, but based on the patterns, probably most of the reasonable governments, there has been contact from space. But, within any government there will exist two possible sets of information. Those who study UFOs, from the ground looking up, and trade some types of information some times, and those who are in the direct contact position. The two are not necessarily the same person, or department.

I know it to be a fact, having talked to a man who made the trip with him, that Ike had dinner on a space ship. I also know that the Queen of England has been on a space ship, once for medical treatment.

You mentioned something in passing that was interesting. It was your being "spied" on. I have no idea as to who is doing what to whom in your case. But, I do know that there was once a proposal put out to step on UFO investigators, and contactees a little bit, to keep the field from expanding too much, so the real contacts would not be lost in the pure bull ****.

As some one who has been in government, you can probably spot the conflicting, and over lapping authorities, that tend to keep showing up in cases like your self. You never out right ask the question, "what the hell´s Naval Intelligence doing in UFOs, but if you do, they were the "initiating authority" in the solution to the problem of the old FOO Fighters of WW2, and the boys who proved UFOs were from space. Once an Intelligence gathering community gets the initiating authority status in a field, especially if the job is dumped onto them, they are damned hard to pry out of that field.

Within the structure of the American UFO community there are a lot of stories running around. If you ever have the time and the chance, or inclination, you might look up the one piece of semi-hard evidence about a crashed UFO. It is the Brownsville, Texas saucer, which was a very old case. Dating back to right after WW2.

That ship came wobbling by Army Air Force base going about ten miles an hour. They first picked it up on radar, when It was about 40 miles away, which gave them vast amounts of time. Then with field glass as It approached, and finally as a visual. They had enough time that they were able to get a chase plane up in the air to follow the saucer to where it crashed, about ten miles deep in Mexico. Their first action was to get a parachute rigger into a plane, and jump him out over the crash site with a stencil and a can of Red Paint, to mark USAAF on the side of the saucer, so we could claim it was ours - in case the Mexicans showed up.

That ship was dragged back to the US by a cat. It left one hell of a skid trail. From the ground the skid trail can not be seen, because the government paid some Indians $5,000.0O0 to replant the ground. and hid all traces of that drag trail. But it can be seen from the air.

If seen from the air, it will be a very straight line that is almost due North and South. At the South end of the skid trail, there is an East-West gully, and just South of the gully is a small ridge, or very little hill. The small hill has a north south ridge on it. The saucer came to rest on the East side of that ridge up against the slope of the hill, or at the base of the very little hill.

Because the drag trail could be seen from the air the Indians were hired to make other trails on the ground, as a confusion factor. The true drag trail is the only straight one in the group.

This letter is long enough. Lots of luck with what you are doing.

Respectfully .....................(name deleted)

I have to agree with a lot of what you say in connection to Michael Horn. I went to a speaking he gave here in my home town a few years back 08'. One of the things that struck me as off,,and making Horn look a little like he may not be getting everything from the horses mouth, was, at the end of the lecture, I asked him what he thought of the other alien races visiting earth at this time, to which he answered there are no other alien races. Now, I for one thought this was bull,,but,,,it turns out there are several instances of Billy Meier mentioning other races visiting this planet. One instance of that, is where he is told by the Pleadians that a race slightly more technologically advanced than earth and being close in proximity was called Acart. It was said that these folks visit earth periodically mostly looking for better staple foods to grow on their mostly desert world.
Wendelle Stevens found a Brazillian man a few years later that had a story exactly fiting this criteria,,he wrote the book called "UFO contact from ACART".
Good stuff,,,the guy mentions earth's protective radiation belt (the van alan belt) back in the 1940's in this "ufo contact from acart".

[ulli]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
It is definitely a channel that is catered directly to me in my case. They have called me by my name. They have gone over distinct memories of mine while I was a child(that I had lost due to not having that pathway activated for such a long time). They have gone over events that have taken place in my life as well. They react to everything I read. They punish me for actions I do(exposing them). They appear to be testing things on me at times(although most of it seems to be perfected technology). It's not something I'm just tapping into. It's technology directly involving me. That much has been proven to me.

I think there is an element of some sort with some people having 'schitzophrenia' picking up 'airwaves' of things that most don't. but in my case, it's directly catered to me and my experience and beliefs. It's a technological connection in my case. Not a natural thing.

I must say that gives me goosebumps.

Did they ever tell you what their reasons are to do this to you?

Or is it like our average scientists studying another species?

[DNA]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
Billy Meier is delusional. He says he's the only contactee on the planet. That alone damns him just as much if not more than Alex Collier. I personally don't see much validity coming from Meier. He's been caught hoaxing things. He's been caught with models of the ships seen in his photos. Granted I've been told he is a legitimate contactee, but I side with Collier over Horn/Meier easily in this dispute personally.

Meier has mentioned other contactees. So he doesn't think he is the only one on the planet. He even mentions other contactees for the Plieadians,,,though he is the only one who has gone public at this time.
As far him having a model ship,,,I know I might seem gullible,,,but Horn has explained that Meier wanted to show it was impossible to duplicate his pictures with models and so he made a few to help illustrate this,,,also,,,,I heard that he has been given models of the ships as presents from folks who appreciate his work. All in all there are things to focus on to discredit Meier,,but,,,I'm of the opinion that,,,there are forces out there who fight to muddle his work in order to confuse and supprese. So to latch on to any singularly given evidence that supposedly disproves Meier,,is to give those Alphabet agencies who are active in this regard to much power.



I don't know,,,Horn has taken a lot of grief for his role. I think the guy does a allright job. I wouldn't want his gig.
I do think Meier has had sobotage done by intelligence agencies. It's just my opinion,,,but,,,if they would go to the trouble of shadowing folks at UFO conventions,,,I'm pretty sure they would intercept Meiers pictures at the fotomat LOL .

[Omni]

Posted by ulli (here)
I must say that gives me goosebumps.

Did they ever tell you what their reasons are to do this to you?

Or is it like our average scientists studying another species?

From what I understand, it's USA shadow government black ops who is testing things on me. All the ETs I've ever spoken to seemed very much already knowing such things. And the US shadow gov seems to know most things too. Just fine tuning torture techniques etc on me. The biggest thing they seem to not know everything about, is soul/higher self/evolution/genetics(I mean humans). When it comes to mind control they all are very proficient.

But I don't wish to make this topic about me. I welcome all questions and comments about my contact story though. My thread can be found here for further comments

I love goosebumps

And I'd like to clarify I have nothing against Billy Meier. Some of his information I know for sure has validity. For example his explanation of "telenosis"(or something like that).

I have yet to meander through the thousands of pages of content from Billy Meier. But I can safely say, whoever he was in contact with(if any ET race), they were not fully honest with him. And probably he was involved in mind control. I was told he was mind controlled to do fake things to prove his truth, and essentially do the opposite when they were found to be hoaxes. It was a lesson they did to me. Not that I really needed it. But it was part of what I was taught either way. That bending things or showing half truths, to prove a truth, is not something to do. Which I tend to believe Billy was part of at times.

Also, one tactic they tried to do to me(which worked for some period of time), was making me think I was Jesus in a past life. They have done all sorts of dark things to me to kill my credibility. Originally they made me think with strong mind control, and corroborating external forces, that I was of the bloodline of Jesus. I told 2 people about it. Those people are no longer friends. They consider me crazy now. Even though I told them it was mind control and a sabotage of my credibility. They are lost to me in terms of being friends. One of them is christian. Telling a christian you are related to Jesus = total loss of all credibility, no matter what you say afterwards.

Further down the line when I snapped out of the "you are related to Jesus" garbage they did to me, they tried to convince me I WAS Jesus. Just another way they use to discredit someone(making them claim they were so and so in a previous life). As some of you may know, Billy Meier believes he is something like the 5th incarnation of Yeshua(Jesus) if my memory serves me correctly. This speaks volumes to him being legitimate to me oddly enough. But also speaks volumes against believing what his information says about anything as it could be disinfo, and I bet he also trusted his contacts 100%, as is the case with most contactees..... As always, it pays to have healthy skepticism, but a very open mind about things.

I think the full situation about Bill Meier is a complicated one if I had to guess.

[RedeZra]

channeling is contact with mischievous discarnate beings

meaning if one wants to be tricked played and lied to

then go ahead and pay attention to their delusions

[DNA]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
channeling is contact with mischievous discarnate beings

meaning if one wants to be tricked played and lied to

then go ahead and pay attention to their delusions

I don't know how that fits into this thread. Billy Meier doesn't channel, and I don't think Alex Collier relies strictly on channeling either.
I myself, I am very leary of chanelled information.
I do think that a lot of it is fourth dimensional astral entities. But I would be remiss if I stated all chanelling falls into that category.

The Urantia book is chanelled and it is freaking awesome. Jane Robert's "Seth Material" is as chanelled as it gets (she started off on a Ouija board) and that information is as high level and genius as it gets.
The Michael Teachings are chanelled and I'm a huge HUGE fan of them. Edgar Cayce's work is chanelled and the doubters in his regard would be very few I'm sure.
So, as usual, one size fits all answers are ussually to be found in error, but, to each their own.

[DNA]

Posted by Omniverse (here)


From what I understand, it's USA shadow government black ops who is testing things on me. All the ETs I've ever spoken to seemed very much already knowing such things. And the US shadow gov seems to know most things too. Just fine tuning torture techniques etc on me. The biggest thing they seem to not know everything about, is soul/higher self/evolution/genetics(I mean humans). When it comes to mind control they all are very proficient.

But I don't wish to make this topic about me. I welcome all questions and comments about my contact story though. My thread can be found here for further comments

I love goosebumps

And I'd like to clarify I have nothing against Billy Meier. Some of his information I know for sure has validity. For example his explanation of "telenosis"(or something like that).

I have yet to meander through the thousands of pages of content from Billy Meier. But I can safely say, whoever he was in contact with(if any ET race), they were not fully honest with him. And probably he was involved in mind control. I was told he was mind controlled to do fake things to prove his truth, and essentially do the opposite when they were found to be hoaxes. It was a lesson they did to me. Not that I really needed it. But it was part of what I was taught either way. That bending things or showing half truths, to prove a truth, is not something to do. Which I tend to believe Billy was part of at times.

Also, one tactic they tried to do to me(which worked for some period of time), was making me think I was Jesus in a past life. They have done all sorts of dark things to me to kill my credibility. Originally they made me think with strong mind control, and corroborating external forces, that I was of the bloodline of Jesus. I told 2 people about it. Those people are no longer friends. They consider me crazy now. Even though I told them it was mind control and a sabotage of my credibility. They are lost to me in terms of being friends. One of them is christian. Telling a christian you are related to Jesus = total loss of all credibility, no matter what you say afterwards.

Further down the line when I snapped out of the "you are related to Jesus" garbage they did to me, they tried to convince me I WAS Jesus. Just another way they use to discredit someone(making them claim they were so and so in a previous life). As some of you may know, Billy Meier believes he is something like the 5th incarnation of Yeshua(Jesus) if my memory serves me correctly. This speaks volumes to him being legitimate to me oddly enough. But also speaks volumes against believing what his information says about anything as it could be disinfo, and I bet he also trusted his contacts 100%, as is the case with most contactees..... As always, it pays to have healthy skepticism, but a very open mind about things.

I think the full situation about Bill Meier is a complicated one if I had to guess.

I think you bring up some interesting points. Randolph Winters lived at the Meier's community and came away with some interesting points in this regard.
He stated that Meiers and his group were attacked via mind control type weopons from a group known as the B'fath, or another name for them was The Giza Intelligence, for it was stated that they had an extensive base in the pyramid of Giza region.
It is stated that these B'fath are a negative extraterestrial group that attempt to influence humanity via mind control.
Further, it is stated that Billy and his whole group that constitute his following and live there with him at his farm were attacked by these folks, and initially this led to much in fighting and political battles.
It could be that this whole thing with Alex Collier is an extension of this.

My own speculations have even gone so far as to wonder myself if the Plieadians are who they say they are. For instance, would we really be able to tell the difference between human looking nordics, and Grey spawned clones? I don't think so.

I think it is usefull for corrolation to note, that the B'fath were said to have two bases, one under the pyramids, and another on Jupiter's moon Ganymede. I think it is also usefull to point out that an excellent contact book by the name of "I visited Ganymede" talks about a man who was flown back to Ganymede, excellent read.

And it was nice connecting the dots with you.

[Steven]

Take the best from all men, leave the rest to forgotten realms.

Namaste, Steven

[RedeZra]

Posted by DNA (here)
Edgar Cayce's work is chanelled and the doubters in his regard would be very few I'm sure.

Edgar Cayce was a special case as he was put to sleep during the sessions and did not remember what was being said and shown through him in that state


if Meier and Collier neither channel nor suffer from an overactive imagination then how did they get their detailed information ?

[DNA]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
Edgar Cayce's work is chanelled and the doubters in his regard would be very few I'm sure.

Edgar Cayce was a special case as he was put to sleep during the sessions and did not remember what was being said and shown through him in that state


if Meier and Collier neither channel nor suffer from an overactive imagination then how did they get their detailed information ?

Maybe,,,but David Wilcock who many say is the reincarnated Edgay Cayce,,,,says Cayce may have had a few negative entities coming through when he was all concerned making mad loot and running around the country side hunting for mineral deposits of oil and lost treasure. Wilcock states this may account for many of the disaster prophecies Cayce gave.

And Meier got his information by going on a majic carpet ride
He and Collier claim to have first person intercation with solid ship landing physical aliens.

I personally think it is up to us in regards to distilling information. Hemingway used to talk about something he referred to as a "sure fire shock proof bull**** detector", and I have to say,,,having one of these is in my opinion the most important nessicity when traversing these waters.
There really are no absolutes in my honest opinion. Trust your gut,,,unless it's full of ****. LOL

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EEEzbFxEbB8

[RedeZra]

Posted by DNA (here)
Maybe,,,but David Wilcock who many say is the reincarnated Edgay Cayce,,,,

if Edgar Cayce read that he will return again in about 200 years... then who is David Wilcock ?


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