Courage to go beyond vanity.

[Tony]

I've been stuck for a couple of weeks. Whatever I was thinking or saying did not satisfy. I needed more information or knowledge or at least a different way of seeing the same thing. We all get stuck sometimes. So yes, sometime stirring the pot does bring something to the surface. This can be painful but important, otherwise we just go round in circles.

Then it happened! It was something that someone said yesterday, about enjoying the game.

This is an amalgamation of Buddhist teachings and the video that Roman found from Illuminatimatrix (though the word derivations weren't easy to follow). I know some of you will not agree with this, but bear with me - or ignore it.

A very subtle evil game is being played out, and it's not easy to comprehend. It is about the twisting of reality. There are evil forces using consciousness itself to deceive and keep us asleep, with a little help from our own vanity.

Anything that is put into word or thought is a twist in reality. Though we use thought and words, we may actually be non-thought non-verbal beings! At the highest level we are beings of pure knowing. However we have been excited into over-expressing ourselves, educated in stupidity, to 'better' ourselves. This is something we do not need to do. We have been driven for so very long to conform, but unfortunately there is some false comfort in this. When George Bush put his finger up in a rude gesture to the camera it said everything.

Thought and speech do serve a purpose, but it is not for self aggrandisement, which is subtly present is nearly every conversation. “It's all about me,” and we do not notice it! THAT IS THE TRAP.

1st Consciousness is just being aware of outer phenomena, This is not waking up. 2nd Subtle consciousness is awareness of inner phenomena. This is still not waking up. We are being played with creatively to divide us from our true self, using language. This makes us competitive with one another. They are playing with our consciousness, and feeding off it.

The best bit about meeting someone is the smile of recognition. What goes on after that is a tiny battle of egos!

Here is the problem. The more we are aware, the more sensitive we become, and the easier it is to press our buttons, to get a reaction from us. We have to have the courage to go beyond mere 1st and 2nd consciousnesses, otherwise we will be lost in emotions which then control us. 'They' know this.

What we actually are is only one step further; the 3rd consciousness. (which is very subtle). Emptiness of emptiness. Zero. But this is not a nothingness. It is omniscient. This 3rd very subtle awareness is who you are - but it gets obscured! Words and thoughts cannot describe it. In fact trying to express it just keeps the mind going round in circles, missing the point.

So what is the solution? Find your silent source, the 3rd very subtle consciousness. There are varying levels of realising this non-state, from temporary to more permanent. Then, any responses to the phenomenal and mental world will be part of that silence. We live in two worlds, the absolute unchanging world of empty cognisance, and the changeable relative world of seeming reality.

How we respond to this ever-changing outer world is up to the individual, but what is being suggested is to merely expand this silent inner space to encompass the relative world. The answer is love and compassion, but this has to be understood properly. If someone is having a problem perhaps with anger, (which is normal for us sentient beings), being told to 'love and be one with the universe' is just papering over a huge hole!

Love is empathy, not competitiveness. All physical and mental phenomena are transient, and therefore an illusion. If we play with them too much they begin to appear to be real.

So maybe within an inner conflict one can find answer....until the next question!


Tony

[ktlight]

"We have to have the courage to go beyond ..."

Pie'n'Eal, my understanding is that when each of us recognises, perceives, accepts the I am the world and the world is me concept, and the world is but a stage where each must play its part, and as above so below and what is within is without, that person has owned up and in so doing acquires the courage to go beyond. That person takes control of the life and uses the mind through love which is ALL there is.

On the way, one has got to see how vigorously thought fights challenges. Thought thinks it is king and wants complete control.

Hope you understand, I am not always clear.

[dan i el]

I guess it all depends on how you look at it

[christian]

This is stuff for the 'Enlightenment" thread, I like it.

This is from the Daodejing:

He who stands on his tiptoes, does not stand firm.
He who goes with stilted legs, does not progress.
He who tries to shine, dims his own light.
He who asserts his own views is not distinguished.
He who vaunts himself does not find his merit acknowledged.
He who is self-conceited has no superiority allowed to him.
Such conditions, viewed from the standpoint of the Tao, are like remnants of food, or a tumor on the body, which all dislike.
Hence, those who pursue the course of the Tao do not adopt and allow them."

[selinam]

Not sure if this is on the same lines, but I felt compelled to add to this thread.

I often find that once I feel an emotion, any kind of 'thought' I have to try and describe the emotion never explains it satisfactorally and the words that come out at the end do not help! Being able to 'feel' (know) someone's emotion, feels 'pure' and sometimes I know we can do that. It's like a complete understanding, such as a 'look' can speak volumes without the use of actual words, but even trying to explain this (as I am doing now) takes the 'edge' off everything I am tryiing to explain!

I am starting to understand more about 'love' in the manner it should be felt, as opposed to how it is used in today's world. How love is more - how it means empathy, understanding, freedom, truth, forgiveness, surrender... I have been reading/watching David Icke for a few years now, but only recently have I understood one of the things he says: 'Infinite Love is the only truth, everything else is Illusion'.

Selina

[Tony]

Posted by selinam (here)
Not sure if this is on the same lines, but I felt compelled to add to this thread.

I often find that once I feel an emotion, any kind of 'thought' I have to try and describe the emotion never explains it satisfactorally and the words that come out at the end do not help! Being able to 'feel' (know) someone's emotion, feels 'pure' and sometimes I know we can do that. It's like a complete understanding, such as a 'look' can speak volumes without the use of actual words, but even trying to explain this (as I am doing now) takes the 'edge' off everything I am tryiing to explain!

I am starting to understand more about 'love' in the manner it should be felt, as opposed to how it is used in today's world. How love is more - how it means empathy, understanding, freedom, truth, forgiveness, surrender... I have been reading/watching David Icke for a few years now, but only recently have I understood one of the things he says: 'Infinite Love is the only truth, everything else is Illusion'.

Selina

Dear Selina,

I don't know if this will help, but here goes. Our very subtle consciousness is in essence empty, meaning unfabricated, is said to have five qualities. Mirror-like wisdom, Discriminating-wisdom, wisdom of Equality, All-encompassing wisdom and All-Accomplishing wisdom.

Mirror = clarity precision
Discrimination = selfless appreciation.
Equality = generosity
Accomplishing = efficiency without ambition
Encompassing = spaciousness

These five wisdoms are the bases for the emotions!

When this very subtle Consciousness looks out and sees something, if it is in unity with its empty essence, it just sees. If the empty essence is forgotten, the thing seen will produce an emotion, because it forgot its empty essence. A judgement arise, other arises, because the “I” slips in.

Mirror = clarity precision = anger = I do not like.
Discrimination = selfless appreciation = desire = I want.
Equality = generosity = pride = I am better.
Accomplishing = efficiency without ambition = jealousy = I am worse.
Encompassing = spaciousness = ignorance = I don't care.

This happens so quickly it goes unnoticed. All that has happened is that the wisdoms became over excited, because it forgot its empty essence. And we forget the empty essence of all phenomena. Everything is empty by nature, having no inherent existence.

When one has realised ones true essence, whenever an emotion arises, that very first instance of the emotion before the I sets in, can remind you of your true essence! How wonderful is that! You never, need to be afraid of your emotions again or anyone elses. When this is realised, true unshakable confidence can arise. Awaken the warrior.

At that moment true compassion wells up.

Tony

[Marikins]

This may not be what you are talking about Tony, but I see the 'nothingness' as the black matter that represents everything. The visible matter, created by light and distortion, is only a very small part of the universe, but that is the part we are convinced is real.

[Tony]

Posted by Marikins (here)
This may not be what you are talking about Tony, but I see the 'nothingness' as the black matter that represents everything. The visible matter, created by light and distortion, is only a very small part of the universe, but that is the part we are convinced is real.

I suppose we get to a point where what we feel and describe is just the way we see it, and our capacity at any given moment. I wish I knew more!!!

Tony

[Mark]

I appreciate what you are trying to do here. to get at the phenomenon in action that you are describing the underling factors of, in forums such as this, where different relative experiences create different truths, different realities, egoic stultification based upon a conversational position is based upon personality construct identification with the idea, belief or truth being discussed. Our ideas, beliefs and truths (as opposed to Truths) are practically programmed into our bodies through the creation of neural nets which work through associations built across the span of a lifetime. To be able to sublimate ego to the extent you're talking about can of course be a lifelong or multiple lifelong process. Unless the choice is made to do it now and that intention is accompanied by subsequent attention and neural-net re-patterning as the mind creates a new network of related behaviors and associations in support of ego-sublimation rather than id identification, replacing the old. It is possible to change instantly, but not probable unless the individual can manifest a significant proportion of her or his innate potentiality. The idea you put forth is sound, though, and applicable and on point, in my understanding. Thank you for sharing.

[Herbert]

Pie, I understood what you meant in your first post when you began the stream. after that all the words just served to confuse which proves your original point. I totally agree that being silent with someone is the greatest gift we can give eachother and we are the creators of love. That is how we create. feelings do not need words when you have the opportunity to be communing with an individual. In fact just ditting looking into someone's eyes is healing but few can take that intensity.

[<8>]

Dear Tony...

This pic represents me, when i look at history and where we are to day. We who are more awake might see land far away. And how much we whant to go there we can not. We can meditate, live life as best as we can. But still we are on this big sea, we have to strugle to get past the big waves. So we not lose sight of the land far away the goal if you will.
Maby of topic idk.

P.s...I think you have to click on the pic to make it larger.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Teakai]

My daughter is doing her teachers training and yesterday we had a conversation about identity. She is being taught the importance for a child to have an ego identity - and that that ego identity ought to be built up with esteem and love.

Then the child is bogged down in the language and the importance of it - and so it continues throughout their formal education.

So, even if this might look like a good thing from ego perspective - from the perspecitive of Truth it is just more of the ties that bind and blind.
We are encouraged from our early years to immerse ourself in the mire and believe that the mire is what is real. The noise, the distractions, the definitions that keep you looking out and buying into all that is not Truth - the stillness, the quiet, the subtle knowledge, the inner, the boundless.

To me this is is somewhat along the same lines to what Pie 'n' eal is saying - though it might look like I took a left at the big tree

[Tony]

Something strange happened yesterday. This is a perfect example of individuals having a unity. The responses from people allowed the next step to take place. Some were generous with their space, one spoke of dark space and one said I filled up space. I spent all night pondering this.

Of course you have got there faster than I did! How to make very subtle consciousness equate with the emotions? SPACE! This must prove that we know, but do not always know that we know! We know, but the thing in front of us does not feel right. Why? We have done something to space...again!

What we are is conscious space. Space meaning open, pure, empty, not a product. If something merely arises in this conscious space, the thing is just noted and conscious space is undisturbed.

However, if something arises and only consciousness is present (lacking the empty spacious quality) the “I” react to the thing in our space.

Below is a chart to show how wisdom turns to an emotion when the “I” is present and something arises, so we react. These five wisdoms are traditional in Tibetan buddhism, they represent the five buddha families. They are like a prism shining from a light source. Of course we are all free to see it differently, because we have different temperaments and inclinations.

Mirror-like wisdom = reflects space = I do not like = anger.
Discrimination wisdom= precise in space = I want = desire.
Wisdom of Equality = generosity in space = I am better = pride.
All-Accomplishing wisdom= recognition in space = I am worse = jealousy.
All-Encompassing wisdom= spaciousness = I don't care = ignorance.

We suffer because we do stuff to space, we fill it! And then walk around with it = karma.
Enlightenment is realising this and loosing the stuff. The truth about the emotions can show us the way home.


All the best
Tony

[DNA]

pie'n'eal said -

I've been stuck for a couple of weeks. Whatever I was thinking or saying did not satisfy. I needed more information or knowledge or at least a different way of seeing the same thing. We all get stuck sometimes. So yes, sometime stirring the pot does bring something to the surface. This can be painful but important, otherwise we just go round in circles.

It sounds like the on set of a deconstruction mode.

Most of the time people have plenty of knowledge, it's not the aquisition of knowledge that cures stagnation, it's the removal of old knowledge.

Take for instance a golf instructor.
A golf instructor would rather get a brand new golfer who has never played the game before than a golfer who has played the game wrong for some amount of time.
This is because a golfer with incorrect mechanics will have to be worked with longer and more dilligently to get rid of the incorrect mechanics that are ingrained in the nervous system.

This is true for spiritual growth as well.
One has to take time and deconstruct the false paradigms that have been formed through social ingraining or incorrect dogma.
I dare say introspection in this manner is difficult, laborious, and makes one insanely vulnerable. Insanely vulnerable.

But, after a go it gets better, you form new paradigms.
And if your like me, you make those new paradigms out of straw instead of brick, that way when the big bad wolf comes and blows your house down again, it's not as messy or painfull.

You just harvest new straw and move on.

Good luck with your harvest Pie'n'eal.

[ROMANWKT]

Posted by DNA (here)
pie'n'eal said -

I've been stuck for a couple of weeks. Whatever I was thinking or saying did not satisfy. I needed more information or knowledge or at least a different way of seeing the same thing. We all get stuck sometimes. So yes, sometime stirring the pot does bring something to the surface. This can be painful but important, otherwise we just go round in circles.

It sounds like the on set of a deconstruction mode.



Most of the time people have plenty of knowledge, it's not the aquisition of knowledge that cures stagnation, it's the removal of old knowledge.

Take for instance a golf instructor.
A golf instructor would rather get a brand new golfer who has never played the game before than a golfer who has played the game wrong for some amount of time.
This is because a golfer with incorrect mechanics will have to be worked with longer and more dilligently to get rid of the incorrect mechanics that are ingrained in the nervous system.

This is true for spiritual growth as well.
One has to take time and deconstruct the false paradigms that have been formed through social ingraining or incorrect dogma.
I dare say introspection in this manner is difficult, laborious, and makes one insanely vulnerable. Insanely vulnerable.

But, after a go it gets better, you form new paradigms.
And if your like me, you make those new paradigms out of straw instead of brick, that way when the big bad wolf comes and blows your house down again, it's not as messy or painfull.

You just harvest new straw and move on.

Good luck with your harvest Pie'n'eal.

Good, here's a simple way of deconstruction DNA, https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...onsense-part-1

regards
roman

[Mad Hatter]

Posted by chiquetet (here)
He who is self-conceited has no superiority allowed to him.
Hence, those who pursue the course of the Tao do not adopt and allow them."

I take it that no real follower Tao ever votes...

Would be nice if that caught on!!

[etheric underground]

Bear what cannot be borne
Endure what cannot be endured
Push if pushed
push if pulled
this is the spirit for the extinction of selfishness