The state of the 9/11 truth movement

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

With the 10 anniversary of 9/11 around the corner and with the expected ramp up of propaganda masquerading under the guise of honest and unbiased investigations, I thought I would put down where I stand regarding various aspects of 9/11.

First of all, the 9/11 truth movement has made some great progress in the first 5-7 years after 9/11. Unfortunately, for the last few years, the movement has slowly changed and it has become closed minded, stuck in a rut and is fast stagnating. The movement seems to be mostly concentrating their efforts on the fall of the 3 towers on 9/11. This is a foolish thing to do as they are putting all their eggs in one basket at the expense of other areas of investigation.

The so called 9/11 truth movement is quickly becoming the 9/11 Controlled Demolition movement.

But even within the area of how the towers collapsed any new evidence on this subject is met with apathy by many of the movement’s leaders. They are unwilling, or worse, too hostile to consider it.

Richard Gage, founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth whose organisation has over 1500 Architects and Engineers and is based around the idea that the towers fell because of a controlled demolition, has yet to address a recent new theory for the collapse.

The best and most scientific theory I have seen is called ROOSD which means "Runaway Open Office Space Destruction". Details HERE... http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/...sition=482:482

It's a difficult theory to fully explain with few words, but what it comes down to, is that the perimeter of the WTC buildings acted as a "funnel" containing a downward moving avalanche of rubble, which advanced faster inside the building than the perimeter failed on the outside. The perimeter "peeled off" in a banana like fashion after the crush front had passed. Thus, most of what happened was obscured from view.

The "puffs" that appear way ahead of the blast wave may not be explosions as Richard Gage and others claim but the result of debris/machinery falling through empty lift shafts ahead of the blast wave which displaces the air, forcing it out and giving the illusion of "puffs" ejecting from the building.

However, explosives were probably still used to initiate the demolition as the initiation has so far defied OBSERVABLE scientific explanation and it is highly unlikely the initiation was caused by the plane strikes or the ensuing fires unless terrorists had control of physics on 9/11.

Explosives need not be used all the way down the building sequentially as A&E for 9/11 truth suggest. Studying the OBSERVABLE data for this, it is revealed that the actions of the building collapse can be explained easily using this OBSERVABLE data without resorting to exotic theories.

THIS site is the best place to start when using OBSERVATIONAL data: http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/...sition=384:384

ROOSD accounts for the symmetrical peeling of the building and the dustification of the building but does not account for the collapse initiation nor the core column destruction.

The problem with A&E for 9/11 Truth is that although they use logic to reach their conclusions, their conclusions are based on false data rather than OBSERVATIONS. This means that even though they have used a logical path to reach their conclusions, their conclusions may be wrong because their logic is a false logic being based on false arguments. They have ASSUMED that "if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... then it is a duck."

Yes, it looks like a controlled demolition but is it really?

I think it is, but not in the way Gage describes.

I think Gage has not looked into ROOSD in any depth (its a fairly new theory) or is just not yet aware of it. I don't think Gage has ignored this on purpose but he really needs to address this new theory if he wants to remain relevant and keep up with the game. It would disappoint me if he did not do this as I consider him to be a brave man with a great deal of integrity.

ROOSD does not exclude an engineered kick off to the global destruction. Why the resistance by so many to the concept? ROOSD simply explains the part we CAN and DO see. It explains virtually all the observations of the towers coming down.

Gage needs to embrace and study ROOSD. He has the ear of the 9/11 movement. For a group like AE911T which represents 15,000 petition signers with 1,500 licensed professionals, its vital Gage is honest. If aspects of his ideas are wrong (as I think they are) he needs to admit this. There is no shame in this. He is just refining and revising his theory. Being wrong can be a great thing as it elevates one to a new level of understanding.

However, I beilve Gage IS correct about the collapse of World Trade Centre 7. He should be commended for this.

Much of the truth movement resists any attempts to remove the MASSIVE COMPLEX of a very high tech intervention which caused the total destruction of the towers. ROOSD is way too much like a natural phenomena (it is!) even though it does not rule out that the initiation is probably engineered.

Is the so called truth movement actually interested in the truth?

ROOSD is the best explanation regarding the collapse of the towers. Better than NIST. Better than Popular Mechanics. Better than any current “truth movement” theory.

The ROOSD idea and the A&E for 9/11 Truth theories need to be fused together. Then I think we will have the best explantion for the fall of the towers.

This brings me onto the related subject of the high tech explosive Nano-Thermite being found in paint chips from the dust. Steven Jones and Niles Harriet submitted their experiments and their results to be published in a specialist peer-reviewed journal.
Its getting on for 3 years now and nobody has scientifically debunked their findings. Instead debunkers attacked the journal itself claiming that it was a “vanity publication” and that anyone can publish papers for it. If its so easy to publish papers, then why don't the objectors write up their objections and get them peer-reviewed and published?
Why have the most vocal debunkers not asked for Dust to test?

The bottom line is that the science still stands.

However, the results have yet to be reproduced or confirmed. There have been 3 other attempts to reproduce the original papers results. Two of the attempts did not even progress past the experimenters receiving the dust as their mail was tapered with and the dust had gone from the package.
The third attempt confirmed the chemical make up of the paint chips but they could not be ignited like the original paint chips. This could be because Nano-Thermite degrades over time. More experiments need to be done.
Interestingly, there was another request for experiments to be done on the dust. It transpired that the person wanting the dust (via a proxy) worked for NIST but was not forthcoming about it. He could have easily acquired his own samples from the NIST archive. Not only that, he also posed as an independent reporter at a NIST press conference and wasted time by asking pointless questions so other reports could not ask their own questions. Fascinating details of the detective work that went into uncovering all this can be found HERE: http://911blogger.com/news/2010-05-3...tc-dust?page=1

I think Nano-Thermite probably was present because not only do we have the peer-reviewed paper and explosive paint samples, we also have evidence of its destructive force that was left behind after the collapse.
FEMA reported a one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness and its edges, which were curled like a paper scroll, had been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes, some larger than a silver dollar, let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes. Nano-Thermite would explain this. It would also explain the presence of molten steel found in the towers which was widely reported. https://youtube.com/watch?v=3SLIzSCt_cg

Nano-Thermite would also explain the Iron Rich Micro-spheres found by the USGC. Only temperatures reached by an explosive like Nano-Thermite could explain these spheres and the molten steel. Not even fires powered by aircraft fuel gets anywhere near hot enough to cause this effect. It would also explain how the cores collapsed straight through themselves:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-bj_gqdi1oI

It would also explain the molten steel pouring from the building before its collapse that Gage and others highlight that may have something to do with the collapse initiation.

I don't want to go any deeper into the technical aspects of the collapses as the main thrust of this was to point out how I feel about the movement as a whole. What I will say is that if one does wish to concentrate on the buildings of 911, WTC7 is the smoking gun.

I wrote earlier that the 9/11 truth movement is NOT the controlled demolition movement.
There are hundreds of other problems with the official story. Here are 50 of them. None are to do with the buildings.
http://911truthnews.com/the-facts-speak-for-themselves/

These all need to be followed up but unfortunately, the majority of the truth movement is letting itself down by ignoring these questions.

Nanothermite, natural collpase of the twin towers, misdirection at the highest levels and hijackers can coexist. Not only logically, but that is what the evidence demands. It's about what you see in the evidence, both in CD research and in "hijackers and the FBI/CIA" research.
I reject the rejection of one in favor of the other, because of the stubborn misconception that they are mutually exclusive. In order for this movement to make progress, this realization ought to find its way into the collective activist consciousness.

Its time to evolve as the great Bill Hicks once said.

With regards to the propaganda that is no doubt on the way, I would recommend reading this list below that points out the difference between a psudoskeptic and a true skeptics.

Characteristics of a Pseudoskeptic:

1. The tendency to deny, rather than doubt.
2. Double standards in the application of criticism.
3. The making of judgments without full inquiry.
4. Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate.
5. Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments.
6. Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.
7. Presenting insufficient evidence or proof.
8. Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof.
9. Making unsubstantiated counter-claims.
10. Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence.
11. Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for dismissing it.
12. Use of vague, exaggerated or untestable claims.
13. Asserting that claims which have not been proven false must be true, and vice versa (Argument from ignorance).
14. They speak down to their audience using 'arguments from authority'.
15. They put forward their assumptions as if they were universal truths.
16. No references to reputable journal material.
17. If the pseudo-skeptic has a monetary interest (such as maintaining a funding stream or a salary) his criticisms often become vituperative.

Characteristics of a True Skeptics / Open-Minded Skeptics:

A. Does not show any of the characteristics of a pseudoskeptic
B. Inquires and asks questions to try to understand things
C. Applies open inquiry and investigation of both sides
D. Is nonjudgmental, doesn't jump to rash conclusions
E. Has honest doubt and questions all beliefs, including their own
F. Seeks the truth, considers it the highest aim
G. Fairly and objectively weighs evidence on all sides
H. Acknowledges valid convincing evidence
I. Possesses solid sharp common sense and reason
J. Is able to adapt and update their paradigms to new evidence

Finally, I will say that if the 9/11 Commission themselves do not believe the official story, why do you?
http://www.911summary.com/

[Darla Ken Pearce]

The pieces are all out there in one form or another, it's a matter of joining in some unity of thought and requires ~ no infighting among ourselves. It's no wonder all this could be kept silent, as many work to disprove rather than prove and argue without understanding all the many other elements regarding who, what, where and how.

By this, I mean names and who was at the controls like Cheney and Rumsfeld ~ all the players ~ what military were involved. Who exactly ordered the stand down of fighter jets? We know so much but nothing has been done about it. Bush, Sr. and Bush, Jr. ran off with the gold. Many others benefited but none have been called to account for their actions.

Put those threads together and the rest will unravel on it's own. Fighting, disproving, and working at cross purposes does not help any of us to find the truth of 911 in all it's ugly glory. A huge black decade that ends this year.

This year, there won't be another ridiculous anniversary without resolution of who is responsible. This year, 2011, it's time the truth be known by the anniversary date. Ten years of lies and new wars brewing is enough. It cannot be allowed to continue further. It's time has come. And so it is...

[Lifebringer]

I thought it was sulphuricthermite. Hmmm.... could have fooled me.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

A&E9/11 are about to hold a conference. As another poster on 9/11 blogger points out - this could be a huge mistake:
http://911blogger.com/news/2012-02-1...comment-255391

In addition to this the results of new tests on WTC dust we be made public in 2 weeks.
http://digwithin.net/2012/02/17/when...ls-at-the-wtc/
(Please also read the comments as well)

[Dennis Leahy]

Yes, very very stupid to hitch your star to someone as controversial as Farrakhan. Really bad move.

However, in the big 3D chess game, it's all moot anyway.

The perpetrators of 911 have nothing to fear in a new investigation. Nothing at all. The contingency of a new investigation (which is what AE911Truth is pressing for) was thought-out by the perpetrators before 911. They have no fear of a new investigation.

Why? Well, they know they will never be convicted. The segment of the Global Rulers that deals with controlling the US government has done its job well. Very well. Besides owning the Congress and the White House - positions that get a minor shake-up every 2 to 4 years (with brand spanking new faces, all pre-selected by the Global Rulers political machine), the Global Rulers make sure that the federal judges and justices with "lifetime" appointments, are all working for them.

What fear would you have of wrongdoing, or of an investigation into wrongdoing, if you knew for sure that you would never be convicted?

Unless and until the underlying issue (getting ALL of the current politicians and judges out of power, and electing people with no ties to the corporations/Financial Elite/Global Rulers) is solved, there will be no justice.

Dennis

{edit} I'll leave the error, but realize I botched the idiom taken from "hitch your wagon to a star", and a better phrasing for my first sentence would have been:
Yes, very very stupid to hitch your wagon to a star as controversial as Farrakhan.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Sad but true. Still, it pains me to see A&E do this and throw away everything they have done just with one poor error of judgement.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

New Nanothemite study released. Peer review to follow.
If this is an honest study, (its funded by debunkers) then the red/grey chips may not be Nano-thermite:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=231314
It will be interesting watching this develop.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

From: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe (Stephen Jones / Niels harrit):

Quote:
Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/t...002/7TOCPJ.pdf

Dr. James Millette of MVA Scientific Consultants:

Quote:
There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...63&postcount=3

Dr. James Millette of MVA Scientific Consultants:

Quote:
SEM-EDS phase mapping (using multivariate statistical analysis) of the red layer after exposure to MEK for 55 hours did not show evidence of individual aluminum particles (Appendix G).

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...63&postcount=3

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe (Stephen Jones / Niels harrit):

Quote:
Red/gray chips were soaked in methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) for 55 hours with frequent agitation and subsequently dried in air over several days. The chips showed significant swelling of the red layer, but with no apparent dissolution. In marked contrast, paint chips softened and partly dissolved when similarly soaked in MEK. It was discovered in this process that a significant migration and segregation of aluminum had occurred in the red-chip material. This allowed us to assess whether some of the aluminum was in elemental form.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/t...002/7TOCPJ.pdf


From: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe(Stephen Jones / Niels harrit):

Quote:
From the presence of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in the red material, we conclude that it contains the ingredients of thermite.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/t...002/7TOCPJ.pdf

Dr. James Millette of MVA Scientific Consultants:

Quote:
Nano-thermite (thermatic nanocomposite energetic material) has been studied in the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California. A TEM image of a thin section of that material was published by R. Simpson11 in 2000 and shows material that is made up of approximately 2 nanometer iron oxide particles and approximately 30 nanometer aluminum metal spheres

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...63&postcount=3

From: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe(Stephen Jones / Niels harrit):

Quote:
Elemental aluminum became sufficiently concentrated to be clearly identified in the pre-ignition material.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/t...002/7TOCPJ.pdf

Dr. James Millette of MVA Scientific Consultants:

Quote:
There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles detected by PLM, SEM-EDS, or TEM-SAED-EDS, during the analyses of the red layers in their original form or after sample preparation by ashing, thin sectioning or following MEK treatment.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...63&postcount=3

Let the games begin

[WhiteFeather]

All you need to know listed below. EWO,,,,Please let 911 R.I.P. Already. (Cough)Building 7, excuse me.


http://www.wanttoknow.info/911/black_eagle_trust_fund

[Praxis]

I highly recommend that you read or watch anything by Judy wood. She has been the only person I have seen explain all the events from that day in a coherent and reasonable fashion. Why is all the paper left if it was a demolition and "thermite" was used? Why did the cars spontaneously combust? Why is there not 1,000,000 tons of concrete and steel lying in the foot print? Why did the towers not register the impact of the collapse on the richter scale? Why were the firefighters boots "melting" yet there were no reports of burns on any of them? Why were things glowing yet not hot(if it glows white hot then the temp would be so high that it would burn from standing next to it)? Why did the bathtub not break if the building collapsed?
Personally, I believe that this thermite and collapse focus is a red herring. Judy said it best: they knew people who not be fooled for ever; so you need a trail for those people who stop believing the official story to follow: thermite and collapse.



Seriously I can not stress this enough: Go read or watch Judy Wood Present her information. She will ask you questions that you can not answer in terms of "collapse".

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by 9ofClubs (here)
I highly recommend that you read or watch anything by Judy wood. She has been the only person I have seen explain all the events from that day in a coherent and reasonable fashion. Why is all the paper left if it was a demolition and "thermite" was used? Why did the cars spontaneously combust? Why is there not 1,000,000 tons of concrete and steel lying in the foot print? Why did the towers not register the impact of the collapse on the richter scale? Why were the firefighters boots "melting" yet there were no reports of burns on any of them? Why were things glowing yet not hot(if it glows white hot then the temp would be so high that it would burn from standing next to it)? Why did the bathtub not break if the building collapsed?
Personally, I believe that this thermite and collapse focus is a red herring. Judy said it best: they knew people who not be fooled for ever; so you need a trail for those people who stop believing the official story to follow: thermite and collapse.



Seriously I can not stress this enough: Go read or watch Judy Wood Present her information. She will ask you questions that you can not answer in terms of
"collapse".

I think you had look at my other posts regarding Judy.

[Praxis]

Sorry I was not aware that you made that post about her. I think you need to go over your own post again if you are still using the word collapse.

[Cidersomerset]

Building seven was obviously brought down somehow by man made instigation not fire or planes, I think we can all agree with that.
Whether you go with Steven Jones or Judy Wood...
The reasons are many and a lot of documentation for pending court cases went up in smoke !!

The Twin Towers disintergrated somehow ! and all the evidence of other highrise towerblocks suggest that is impossible by office fire !!
So Judys theory seems very plausible.Although I agree she needs more support from the scientific community for it to procceed..

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

She will only receive scientific report if her science is good. How can any scientists support or endorse her work when she has done no experiments or followed the scientific method to back up her theory?

But whatever.
This thread does not need to become ANOTHER Judy thread. Its not why I started it.

[Praxis]

I do not see why you two care about what other scientists believe. Most scientists do not believe in Orgone, but if you read The Discovery of Orgone from cover to cover there is no doubt.
You should not worry about what authority tells you is correct. Most sciencetists are just as dogmatic and controlled as religion. If you do not believe this then you have not been in academia. I really enjoyed the South Park on this "Science be praised" "Our science is the best science"
Spread whatever theory you think is correct to the people you care about. When enough people do not believe official story it will collapse(lol).

This thread is about the state of 9-11 truth. Till now I did not know about Judy. Now that I do: It should be the state of 9-11 truth. I was not aware of the Bathtub. I was not aware of the cars. THE PAPER!!!!!!!! The lack of seismic activity during the "collapse." The paper!!!! Why is all that paper still there if thermite or heat brought it down? The lack of a million tons of steel and concrete.

Lets make the discussion about these things. Can the thermite advocates reconcile the things mentioned above? If so please explain and let's move the state of 9-11 awareness forward. I ask this for me and not anybody else. My mind could not reconcile her data with other theories. If your minds can, please involve me in your circle of awareness.

[Phoenix]

A&E is a psyop. You think the US government would carry out 9/11 and then not have a back up plan to suck up all the dissenters? I've spoken to those people in several phone conferences... I get a chill down my back listening to them. The leaders are part of something bigger.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by 9ofClubs (here)
This thread is about the state of 9-11 truth. Till now I did not know about Judy. Now that I do: It should be the state of 9-11 truth. I was not aware of the Bathtub. I was not aware of the cars. THE PAPER!!!!!!!! The lack of seismic activity during the "collapse." The paper!!!! Why is all that paper still there if thermite or heat brought it down? The lack of a million tons of steel and concrete.

Lets make the discussion about these things. Can the thermite advocates reconcile the things mentioned above?

Yes. All of them have been answered. I have done so in this thread:
Post 14:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post349155

Post 15:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post350032

and subsequent posts in the same thread.

Please continue discussion on Judy Wood on the thread above. Not here.

This thread is for how the 9/11 truth movement moves forward. How will its leaders react to this new study? Will they cooperate or will that hand wave and dismiss it?
Why has A&E for 9/11 chose to associate with someone like Farrakhan? It makes all of us look bad by association. Members of A&E have left the organisation because of this one event that gage instated on speaking at.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

To clarify, I beilve that the towers were brought down with explosives.
However, we need more evidence from a science point of view.
The more evidence we have, the stronger the case.
The stronger the case, the harder it is to ignore.
The hard it is to ignore, the more chnace of a new investigation.

That is what part of my first post in this thread was about.
The rest was about examing other aspects of 9/11 such as the intel connections and so on.

[Praxis]

Your post were cute Eyes Wide Open. Enjoy your thread

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Why not stick around this thread too? You said you wanted to talk abut the 9/11 truth movement so lets talk.

Just as I predicted would happen, Richard Gage and Kevin Ryan speaking at this event looks like it may be the beginning of the end for the truth movement.

Its a shame.

http://www.911blogger.com/news/2012-...ppened-and-why