Psychological effects of circumcision?

[Carmody]

Now for the good side:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This knot in the mind, it has left a marker.

It can be found, it can be reached, as it is a point of difference. It is the marker itself.

The point can be dealt with, via self hypnotics and regression, it can be cleared and the door..is eerily.....incredibly close......it's right there.

[vibrations]

Any pain, any intervention on a child's body will sooner or later show up as some psychical issue. You may feel "good" and laughing at it, but it is there, something in your life is affected with it.

In the other side, the natural architecture (Mr. God himself or through genetic engineers of more advanced races) has it's purpose, but it feels so good being a God for a moment, changing anatomy a bit, just because somewhere in an old book full of lies someone write it down. And traumatized my own child with it, well, no thank you. It's the matter of using a brain for what it is - thinking. And a mind for loving, not cutting.

[Deedee]

And let us not forget "how valuable of a money maker" that little piece of foreskin is... Oh yes, it's being sold to the de-wrinkle cream factories for the creams that costs hundreds of dollars... The reason people make the decision to have their babies skin removed is because of their "belief system", religious or otherwise.. but I won't forget the day my OBGyn asked me and my husband if we would have the foreskin removed and I said "No" and my husband said "Yes" (he was circumsized)... Of course I was not happy when my OB Gyn looked at my husband and said.. "Don't worry, you have upto a month.. perhaps she'll change her mind"... So this is not just a "belief system" but it can also be influenced by the Doc and Hubby so ladies.. please do your homework and make your decision when deciding.. after all you carried him for 9 months and you do in fact get ultimate say.. if you believe it!

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by Carmody (here)
That is patently ridiculous / You are failing to understand / You have failed to read upon / You are missing the point entirely.

Hello Carmody,

Please tone it down! It is easy to be respectful toward someone when we agree with them, but your mettle is tested when choosing the manner in which to disagree.

Chancy is not the most prolific of posters on this forum, and after your virtual tongue lashing, I would not be surprised if post 18 is their last.

Fostering healthy communication on this forum is my only motive for bringing this to your attention.

Thank you,

Tony.

[chancy]

Posted by Carmody (here)
That is patently ridiculous.
Let an adult decide if they want to mutilate themselves. Don't do it for them as a child...or put it in their minds.
You are failing to understand the depth of importance in this little bit of skin, and how it has been done, how and when it has been removed.....throughout time and histoy.

Greetings everyone: Actually it's not mutilation. There's no mutilating involved. That's why there are parents that love and care for their kids. I am not failing to see or understand circumcision. I am well versed in the history and why it was and is done. As I mentioned in my post it's FREE CHOICE TO CHOOSE just like it's your choice to be against it. I am not ragging on anyone for being against it because it's their FREE CHOICE TO CHOOSE.

You have failed to read upon, or understand the point..... altogether

I have not failed to read upon, or understand the point. I GET IT! I GET IT! I GET IT! Just as you failed to understand what I wrote because you think I mutilated my kids which I DID NOT. I LOVE MY KIDS TOO MUCH. That being said I made a choice along with my wife and we are very happy with it along with our kids. End of story.


To overstate things slightly in the physical world..but to greatly understate with relation to be and reach true connectedness in spirituality:...It's like telling people it is a good idea to cut off the child's index finger at birth so they'll never pick their nose.

First of all you know nothing about me and my spirituality. You know nothing about my family and our spirituality therefore you are NOT in a POSITION to talk about our SPIRITUALITY. You certainly can talk about yours and your families and I won't have a problem with that! Now you are putting words in my mouth because I NEVER SAID or IMPLIED "it is a good idea to cut off the child's index finger at birth so they'll never pick their nose" You said this and I was talking from fact and you are talking from fiction when you make statements like these. I simply told my story and how circumcision has NOT AFFECTED myself or my sons in anyway PERIOD. Nothing was implied and nothing was to be read between the lines. You are OVER ANALYZING what I wrote.


You appear to be coming to a wrong conclusion in a layer of physicality about something that is much deeper, with regard real depths of truth in this matter.

There; was NO CONCLUSION in a layer of physicality to be wrong about since you are right it's just a piece of skin. Nothing more and nothing less. My spirituality and my families spirituality has not suffered. When things are over analyzed then people do wrong things because they are trying to make things become what they want them to.I am not trying to manipulate or sway the real truth which I presented in my post only about myself and my sons. PERIOD.
To set the record straight there was NO ONE looking over my shoulder or my wifes shoulder forcing us to circumcise our boys.

It's like me forming a giant lie.... and telling kids they need to go the middle east and kill terrorists. You are missing the point entirely.

There is no lie or conspiracy in my post. I simply told the truth. Just because you cannot handle the truth in regards to my post that is definitely not my fault or intention. I was simply telling the side that wasn't being told yet. REMEMBER there are always two sides to every story. Unfortunately most people can't analyze both sides and come to a reasonable conclusion.
Again you are putting words in my mouth "It's like me forming a giant lie.... and telling kids they need to go the middle east and kill terrorists. You are missing the point entirely"
I am talking about circumcision and you're talking about things that have NO BEARING on circumcision. There is NO LIE that I am telling since it's about myself and my kids. The only one telling lies is YOU as trying to put many words in my mouth like the quotations from you "It's like me forming a giant lie.... and telling kids they need to go the middle east and kill terrorists. You are missing the point entirely".
This is how people get into big arguments about something so small as a grain of salt. I knew I was going to take flak for telling the truth but aren't we ALL HERE FOR TRUTH? If not then I have been very mistaken about what we are all here for then?
PS I haven't missed the point at all....
Chancy

[Czarek]

The verdict if I should get my son cut or not was: NOT TO CUT. It took a lot of research to come to this decision. Just as with any topic, you'll come by a lot of BS. The "magical child" is worth its weight in gold, or even more IMO. Unfortunately, despite what you tell your spouse, some are not able to go the distance no matter what benefits are there to be gained. Some times I wish I was a man AND a woman. Strange...

[Carmody]

Posted by Heyoka_11 (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
That is patently ridiculous / You are failing to understand / You have failed to read upon / You are missing the point entirely.

Hello Carmody,

Please tone it down! It is easy to be respectful toward someone when we agree with them, but your mettle is tested when choosing the manner in which to disagree.

Chancy is not the most prolific of posters on this forum, and after your virtual tongue lashing, I would not be surprised if post 18 is their last.

Fostering healthy communication on this forum is my only motive for bringing this to your attention.

Thank you,

Tony.

You are abolutely right.

I should not have.

And I should have.

Both are true.

I'm positive of both, unsure of either.

I do not believe parents should be allowed to mutilate their children. That I am sure of.

I stated my position and why. It has nothing to do with the feeling of peeing better and looking just like dad or any other act of 'reasoning.'

The depth of the matter is much greater than that, from my explorations. To me, surface reasoning is not an answer. It is the wrong answer with the wrong question asked, due to the true depth of the situation not being realized or understood.

This is how those who manipulate societies, cultures and even continents work. That depth, that level, that kind of layering.

[seko]

oK, just talked to my mother about what happened to me when circumcision was done to me, she was there and saw it.

Anesthesia was used, I didn't cry. Felt no pain in anyway afterwards. Not for peeing, or any other situation.

Skin was cut, but not removed from the body. Just cut enough for the penis to get it out of that layer of skin or bag.

I read and understood what Carmondy, 9eagle9 and Deedee said.

I can trust my mother on this one, she was and she's very straight, no lies.

They might be different ways of doing it, but in my case it was all good.

I will still read any post and be neutral. No offense taken.

[Carmody]

Posted by seko (here)
oK, just talked to my mother about what happened to me when circumcision was done to me, she was there and saw it.

Anesthesia was used, I didn't cry. Felt no pain in anyway afterwards. Not for peeing, or any other situation.

Skin was cut, but not removed from the body. Just cut enough for the penis to get it out of that layer of skin or bag.

I read and understood what Carmondy, 9eagle9 and Deedee said.

I can trust my mother on this one, she was and she's very straight, no lies.

They might be different ways of doing it, but in my case it was all good.

I will still read any post and be neutral. No offense taken.

Yes, in this modern world, this is true. However...many places and people have had it done -otherwise. For thousands of years. The point about the depth of psychological and thus physiological neural wiring, at the most critical depth and level..the newborn level......still stands.

We are talking about Root Chakra, Kundalini. Access to what allows us to move into being as and at the higher self. The path, as a potential... is damaged by this act.

All for a religious dogma. For a fitting into the group. Definitely not the best thing to be doing.

[ulli]

When I had my son it took a lot of strength to say No.
The obstetrician as well as my former husband and a nurse
were pretty forceful in their efforts to get my consent,
but they didn't realize that in my case any coercion is counter-productive.
My son never held it against me.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Just ask yourself this" Is forever changing my childs physiology and prematurely surging his little body with cortisol and stress markers, making his first notable experience one of trauma(or chemically introduced numbing agents), worth whatever that kid will get out of having no foreskin? I do agree w Carmody that it should be illegal to force this on a child. its always an option later in life if the kid is too damn lazy to wash the penis properly (women must wash to stay cleanly too, perhaps moreso, should we cut off labia?) or wants a different look to da pee pee.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

Sometimes when I see a thread that stands without comments, I will break the ice to get things moving in a positive way. This one, I decided not to touch with a ten foot pole. Now when I've returned, many are contributing and war has broken out below the bible belt and even in the mideast.

It's not that I didn't have some contribution as the mother of three boys and four girls who had to make a decision on this matter. I also believe that whacking babies to get them to cry at birth and having them born under bright, horrific lights when they came from the safety and warmth of a womb is awful punishment that will be paid for down the road. The salad forks to push, drag and prod were nasty, too.

My nieces now, deliver their babies at home with soft music, no lights, no instruments of torture and in wading pools set up in a basement with warm water flowing. In addition, birds could be singing them into life for all I know. I heard about a dolphin one time but this hasn't been verified yet. Much kinder, better adjusted kids, no doubt are being born. But who knew back in the day? My kids are middle age now and it's too late to go back and make other decisions. Once we realize the damage, though, we can be aware and repair it ourselves from within our own bodies. This is where self-healing comes in...

Incidentally, please do not turn this into a religious war amongst yourselves. It's an emotionally packed topic and Ego loves to jump in these spaces and wreck havoc for no decent reason! This is exactly how we got into this extreme mess in the first place.

We've made a lot of mistakes as humans and later paid for them in doctor bills, analysts, and the FEAR FACTOR. What I recently found most interesting is that when the Illuminati tinkered and took away much of our talents and good DNA strands, they purposely left the root chakra in tact for absolute control issues. The dirty dogs!

Testosterone has caused so many wars and war like behaviors, it is pathetic in hindsight. We are not only self-healing, we are super self-destructive and especially once the Divine Masculine and Feminine went so far out of balance. Your private parts being out of tune ~ is about all the dark we can handle but this is just IMHO and of course, I'm about as prejudice as you can get.

Leaving only two strands operative has, indeed, caused most of our problems.

We are getting this balance back now (THANK GOD AND ANGELS ABOVE AND EVEN STRANGERS IF YOU CAN FIND ONE) and we are to go forth using all of our DNA strands. There is one strand per Chakra and we actually have 12 of them and not just 7 as believed at one time. It's too late to change decisions your mother made out of choices and beliefs at the time of most of our births. Forgive them and move on now.

Please, it'd be a blessing. You won't, of course, but I can ask anyway in kindness. Much must be forgiven ~ out of hand ~ for us to move out of darkness and into a whole new day. Let's go Tonto and nuggets! Time's awastin' Much love! xoxoxox

[chancy]

It's interesting that more men aren't adding to the conversation! It appears that on the whole the woman are against circumcision and the men are not saying ya or nay. From my perspective it would be the men that would have the say here since they're the ones who get circumcised. Let's here from the men....
Circumcision basically takes the penis outside of the glove. For anyone that doesn't know that needs to know that the man will thank his parents for getting him circumcised. I know I have been eternally greatful for my parents, particularly my mother because she insisted that the boys in the family got circumcised. ( remember TRUTH )
The debate will go one forever because there are people that think it hurts the child and I know it doesn't from being there and taking care of my kids afterwards. The debate will go on because there are people that are always trying to get in other peoples face about everything these days. I say mind your own business and take care of your own family. Life is much simpler and let people have the freedom of choice they deserve. Not all decisions will be correct BUT that's why we are parents. Parents are special people that have the future in their hands with their kids. Kids of course will learn from their parents and the debate goes on and on and on.................
Chancy

[Carmody]

Darla: One comment.

Please cease with the oversize text.

I read your post, but it was difficult to do ..as the text was 'yelling at me', and that never solves anything.

Thank you.

[bitworm]

I think guys who have had this done would typically want the same for their sons, in part for sanitary reasons, but also for social reasons depending on where they live. A guy understands locker room politics, which begins during middle school and wouldn't want for his son at that age to be in the minority regarding sheathed or unsheathed. The same thing on down the road when he becomes sexually active and wondering what the girls will say about it.

Personally I feel after surviving the shock of getting ripped out of a warm 9-month bath, feeling my full body weight and being forced to breathe air, whatever else gets thrown my way really pales in comparison.

[Snowbird]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
I had a thought while I was outside just now...

What psychological effects does severe pain and suffering the moment you enter the world have, if any?

Does anyone have some intelligent thoughts or knowledge about this?

Have any tests been done regarding circumcision, in terms of psychological profiling etc and seeing if any big differences occur with non circumcised and circumcised??

I'm not saying circumcision will make someone bad or anything like that. And I hope nobody feels bad if they are(I wont say if I am or not). I just think it may have an effect on a babies psyche. Perhaps it is totally washed away with time. I don't remember when I was born

Do things that happen to you at that age even matter in terms of development later in life?

What do you think the long term psychological effects(if any) of circumcision at birth are for babies?

The opening poster has asked some questions which we are responding to. Circumcision is more widespread than is known. Not only is male circumcision common but female circumcision is common in many parts of the world.

This isn't a matter of making anyone feel badly or adding to the negative frequencies. This subject is extremely important for many reasons, some of which are listed below. I agree that circumcision is not understood. But perhaps by bringing forth this really personal and touchy subject, it will become more understood.

From national Geographic

Male Circumcision

Witness a male circumcision ritual in South Africa

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MkHk-h8GkeE

Circumcision: Who Profits?

Circumcision is big business. Neonatal circumcision is the most frequently performed
routine operation in the US. Doctors are collecting as much as $240 million yearly to perform 1.2 million needless operations on 1.2 million normal penises. In England, under socialized medicine when physicians were no longer compensated monetarily, the circumcision rate fell to below 0.5%.

Most parents want the operation. I can make an extra $200. Why should I try to dissuade them? —Anonymous obstetrician

And then, there are the hidden factors that raise the cost of circumcision to the healthcare industry. For example, the additional cost of the added average half-day longer hospital stay for circumcised infants is estimated between $250-550 million beyond the charges for the procedure itself. The total cost of all neonatal circumcisions annually performed in hospitals in the US is well over a billion dollars.

Circumcision is extremely profitable for the medical-industrial complex. Human foreskins are in great demand for a number of commercial enterprises, and the marketing of purloined baby foreskins is also an immensely profitable industry. Some examples: Pharmaceutical companies use foreskin in the manufacture of interferon and other drugs and international biotech corporations are procuring cells from amputated foreskins and experimenting with artificial skin. According to a report in Forbes magazine, the annual market for baby-penis-derived products could be $1 to $2 billion. And all of this without the permission of the “donor.” Biotechnology firms like Organogenesis have received fast-lane approval from the FDA for its foreskin-based Graftskin. Doctors, medico-legal experts, and bioethicists were denied the opportunity to request a full hearing and voice their concerns over the ethics of trafficking in and marketing these foreskins.

http://www.thewellspring.com/flex/my...ho-profits.cfm


Medical Studies on Circumcision

Early Adverse Experiences May Lead to Abnormal Brain Development and Behavior

Self-destructive behavior in current society promotes a search for psychobiological factors underlying this epidemic. The brain of the newborn infant is particularly vulnerability to early adverse experiences, leading to abnormal development and behavior. Although several investigations have correlated newborn complications with abnormal adult behavior, our understanding of the underlying mechanisms remains rudimentary. Models of early experience, such as repetitive pain, sepsis, or maternal separation in rodents and other species have noted multiple alterations in the adult brain, correlated with specific behavioral types depending on the timing and nature of the adverse experience. The mechanisms mediating such changes in the newborn brain have remained largely unexplored. Maternal separation, sensory isolation (understimulation), and exposure to extreme or repetitive pain (overstimulation) may cause altered brain development. (Circumcision is described as an intervention with long-term neurobehavioral effects.) These changes promote two distinct behavioral types characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, stress disorders, hyperactivity/attention deficit disorder, leading to impaired social skills and patterns of self-destructive behavior. The clinical importance of these mechanisms lies in the prevention of early adverse experiences and effective treatment of newborn pain and stress.

Circumcision Associated with Sexual Difficulties in Men and Women

Circumcision is Associated with Premature Ejaculation

NOTE: There have been numerous articles in American media about claims that circumcision prevents HIV transmission. No mainstream media article has reported on an opposing view, as described in the findings of the following five medical articles.

Circumcision Decreases Sexual Pleasure

Circumcision Removes the Most Sensitive Parts of the Penis

Circumcision Policy Influenced by Psychosocial Factors

Circumcision is Not Good Health Policy

Pain, Trauma, Sexual, and Psychological Effects of Circumcision

Circumcision Results in Significant Loss of Erogenous Tissue

Circumcision Affects Sexual Behavior

Researchers Demonstrate Traumatic Effects of Circumcision

Circumcision Study Halted Due to Trauma

Circumcised Penis Requires More Care in Young Boys

Poll of Circumcised Men Reveals Harm

Psychological Effects of Circumcision Studied

Serious Consequences of Circumcision Trauma in Adult Men Clinically Observed

Anatomy and Function of the Foreskin Documented

Male Circumcision Affects Female Sexual Enjoyment

Male Circumcision and Psychosexual Effects Investigated

Surveys Reveal Adverse Sexual and Psychological Effects of Circumcision

Foreskin Reduces the Force Required for Penetration and Increases Comfort

Survey of Men Circumcised as Adults Shows Mixed Results



http://www.circumcision.org/studies.htm


Female Genital Mutilation Said To Be Widespread In Iraq's, Iran's Kurdistan



http://www.rferl.org/content/Female_...n/1507621.html

[Czarek]

anesthesia does not provide benefits you think it does.

[Lifebringer]

That kind of pain might be why men forgot their feminine side. Women bare pain a little better because a birth pain is second only to death's last painful exhale.
That is why WAR is wrong. Because I've been listening to both parties in power for years. The right for choice, the right wants a law agaist abortion, but none address the horrible reality a girl or woman must make when this happens at an inopportuned time. Instead of the people realizing that God doesn't make mistakes, people do, and help the woman to educate herself while on the public poverty fund, to remove herself off the roles. This is the reason for so much stigmatism.
Every woman treasures that moment, and when they keep the child nurture it, love it, and teach it to play well with others, The powers that were train them to hate and kill dressing them in war fatigue uniform, and buying toy guns to learn to point them at people.
I can safely say, that I'm glad the femine is upon us, and I believe if a woman of middle class with intelligience like Elizabeth Warren were President, half the lies that were being told, wouldn't have been shoved under the Republican rug.

Until the skills and training are bought back(been gone since Reagan) the people have no way to raise all ships during a recovery. It is time for the stewards of this planet to take it to the next level and clean the waters like a fish tank and improve these slummy disgusting so called housing that drains the poor and tax payer dollars on utilities. More efficient technology that is cleaner is now available and the people who are stopping the progress on this, is us. Demand the green jobs training now from both parties, for jobs that will last for decades, with a demand right here at home converting and making them efficient. Women can lay insulation and caulk and use a power screw driver for bolting solar. Every little bit helps to lower the deficit and WE wouldn't need a LAHEAP for winter and summer to cool the elderly or poor because they would be on renewable energies from utility companies not using fossil fuel or coal.

Now this planet has been damaged to the point of "almost" force to end it. The planet has cried out and the people while Bush was in power in every nation on the planet, prayed for 'divine intervention' and gave permission in 2008/July. It is happening and like I said, the pain was spared a man throughout his life, except for what he gets during illness, a fight, or war wound, men simply haven't been prepared for pain as a women, both of the hert, and of the spirit and loss of a birthed life in the world. All choices like that are very difficult for a student or domestic violence women who are divorced and single parenting. Sex is a natural urge occurance between men and women and exploring teens. jBirth Control/Protection and teaching of being more virtuous of your body parts, the HIV warning was sounded long ago. The younger generation must have had the beats up too loud, because the % are going up.

Peace on Earth and goodwill towards thy neighbor.

[TigaHawk]

I think - the idea of circumsision came into play in a time when our hygene was definately not the best.

I can believe that alot of people would have - and did - fell ill due to poor hygne in that area. And it would have been painfull as hell too, an infection... there... ouch!

I think tho - as we've advanced our techologies, our hygne and living conditions have significantly improved.

The simple fact that every person has the ability to walk into a shower/bath, simply turn a nob on the wall and ding - hot clean water, with soap allways nearby - should have been the end of Circumcision. You shuold only ever get an infection there if you dont clean it! And if you dont clean it, then you kinda deserve it o_O As it would be in a way, self inflicted because of you're neglect.



Unfortunately, in this day and age - Hygne is not the main marketer for Circumcision. There's a myth that "Women prefer Circumcized". Well not realy a myth, there's just a hell of alot of uneducated women out there that believe anything they read on a dolly magazine cover.

There's alot of pressure put on boy's as they're growing up. If they're not circumzised - because of how the male urinals are - they will be noticed, they will be laughed at, teased and tormented about it. This allmost guarentees that when the boy grows up, is married and has a child on his own - he's going to choose to have the child circumsized purely because he's not going to want what happend to him happen to his son.

Then you have the assleep women saying yes purely because of the reasons i stated further above.

Viscious Cycle.


P.S - Just asked my other half about what he felt about his. He diddnt know he was circumsized, and i had to sit down and do an educational with google pictures before he'd believe me, oh dear

[Snowbird]

This is really a very helpful article.

The Foreskin Is Necessary

By Paul M. Fleiss, MD, MPH

Western countries have no tradition of circumcision.

Circumcision started in America during the masturbation hysteria of the Victorian Era, when a few American doctors circumcised boys to punish them for masturbating. Victorian doctors knew very well that circumcision denudes, desensitizes, and disables the penis. Nevertheless, they were soon claiming that circumcision cured epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, elephantiasis, tuberculosis, eczema, bed-wetting, hip-joint disease, fecal incontinence, rectal prolapse, wet dreams, hernia, headaches, nervousness, hysteria, poor eyesight, idiocy, mental retardation, and insanity.

It was only in the 1970s that a series of lawsuits forced hospitals to obtain parental consent to perform this contraindicated but highly profitable surgery. Circumcisers responded by inventing new "medical" reasons for circumcision in an attempt to scare parents into consenting.

But if circumcisers were really motivated by purely medical considerations, the procedure would have died out long ago, along with leeching, skull-drilling, and castration.

What Is the Foreskin?

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html