"Debunking Jordan Maxwell : The Movie" - There is a war on our minds!

[Baelsfire]

Well here is an interesting piece of film i found... After performing a search i couldn't find any topics on it here nor on David Ickes' website, so of course i thought maybe its time there was.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9914965262207# 1 hour

Speaking from my own point of view, i like a lot of what Jordan Maxwell has to say, especially when considering how his presenting's have helped form such works as Zeitgeist and many well known speakers and researchers in the "alternative" field. However there are some things that didn't quite sit well with me - this is to be expected with any one; as the fictional Obi Wan once said "Many truths depend on our point of view".

I've seen a few people post how they are very much at odds with Maxwell and feel ill ease and suspect regarding his possible agenda and motivations. Yet this was never expanded upon. Of course there is always disinformalists (new word!) and those who will attempt character assassination and with people/ characters such as "Jordan Maxwell" its pretty clear why there would be so. So when i post this video i hope people will have the clarity of mind to consider these kind of things and take all issues in balance.

Being erroneous on some points does not invalidate all other work one has put forth and fallibility is part and parcel of being an incarnate being - according to myself. But never the less it is important to pay attention to the many facets of a diamond to see the super structure.

Many take issue with "Jordan" because he is a Mason, i can see from their point (though i do not see things as simplistically as some)... Especially if they have been exposed to information such as this

Excerpt from site :

I do promise and swear that I will not give the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress of a Master Mason, except for the benefit of the Craft while at work or for the instruction of a Brother, unless I am in real distress; and should I see the sign given, or hear the word spoken, I will hasten to the relief of the person so giving it.

Question: What about when a NON Mason gives a sign of distress?

Answer: No obligation required. Typical of an elitist and anti-social cult.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not give the substitute for the Master’s Word in any other way or manner than that in which I receive it, which will be on the Five points of Fellowship, and at low breath.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not wrong, cheat, nor defraud a Master Masons Lodge, or a worthy Brother of this degree to the value of anything, knowingly, nor suffer it to be done by another, if in my power to prevent.

Question: What about wronging, cheating, or defrauding a NON Mason?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not knowingly strike a Brother Master Mason, nor otherwise do him personal violence in anger, except in the necessary of myself, family or property.

Question: What about striking or doing personal violence in anger to a NON Mason?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not have illicit carnal intercourse with a Master Mason’s wife, widow, mother, sister or daughter, nor suffer it to be done by another if in my power to prevent.

Question: What about not having illicit carnal intercourse with a NON Mason's wife, widow, mother, sister, or daughter?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Question: What about not having illicit carnal intercourse with a Master Masons SON?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Now of course this is propaganda. But of what sort? Is it Black, Grey or merely White Propaganda? I don't know... I'm not a Mason... Im not rich enough to be one. And as nearly all the known Masons i have been exposed to (and suffered from) seem to greatly value capitalistic doctrine and the illusion of status and the rather diseased and destructive philosophy like that of Ayn Rand i fully comprehend why people would have issues with the agenda of the society and the programming the members are subject to.

But surely this is a case of rotten apples in a barrel causing the others to rot? A whole other topic surely.

There is a Roman Maxim of Law: "Let he who would be deceived be deceived". This is and has been used against the "average Joe" for thousands of years now. Its very nasty do you not think? Surely a system that advocates such attitudes should be condemned and stripped of power?

So what do you think?

Is Jordan part of a deliberate deception? Is he simply misinformed on some points? Perhaps there is such truth in his words that there is a concentrated effort to discredit the fellow on any point possible, however small, in the hope that the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater? Maybe its a mingle of things... i refer back to my comment on the fallibility of being incarnate.

I look forward to your comments...

[Grizzom]

"When in doubt baffle the audience with BS"

"He's just an entertainer making a living"

[Baelsfire]

That would of course make him a charlatan and untrustworthy, under that point of view.

Do you then find all or most of his information poppycock? Are Zeitgeist, Tsarion, Freeman, Wilcock, Deagle, Icke, etc all full of rubbish? These are just some of the implications.

I'm guessing from what you said that you are just here for entertainment purposes and think nothing on these forums or camelot holds any water in your reality?

[777]

This has the potential to be a fascinating thread Baelsfire, love your "new word" and the gospel according to you haha!

In my view, my personal mix of logic/gut feeling/knowledge leaves me still unsure of JM. The jury is still out for me. But let me adress this through another high ranking freemason: Manly P Hall. Here is a guy (reportedly) at the tip of the masonic iceberg. He has perpetually released information regarding the occult, secret societies, freemasonry and ancient esotericism seemingly with no response from the powers that be, otherwise why would he?! Maybe this is a deliberate act of disinformation. Maybe these societies are not that fussed about their practices becoming public knowledge. Or maybe behind every person no matter who or what they "belong" to is a human being fighting to do what's right. I believe the latter to be the case with MPH. If you listen to his interviews, watch his videos etc you can sense the love and intention in his words and sentiments.

This leads me to attribute the actions of JM or MPH to be those of love for their species and a personal sense of responsibility for the future of it. Also, at the pinnacle of freemasonry laws are written and created. These people are adept at deception through these laws and specialists at exploiting the loopholes therein for personal/group gains. Thus, the likes of MPH (presuming he IS a good guy!) will know this too and use them for his own ends.

The key loophole here is the word "knowingly". It's a beautifull irony that just this little word could be used so effectively against them by their own members!

I don't know if my views are anywhere near the mark Baelsfire but food for thought maybe?

Great thread mate.

[Baelsfire]

Hey 777, thanks for the input!

Certainly food for thought.. I myself have been looking in to Manly P Hall of late, in conjunction with some others. He himself is attributed with a quote on how knowledge and elitism corrupts if i recall correctly. Put many here are either "hardcore" Maxwell fans or indicate that they are against him on a intuitive level.

Thus i was surprised that this film, which has been out a while, was never posted and discussed before. So questions should be asked.. Im sure Jordan would be irritated that i posted that negative segment on Freemasonry in association, but ive never seen him engage in conversation of refute any claims so there you go.

I'm not against him but it does appears there is some quite murky waters here - which people are happy to bath in, regardless of whether that which just floated past was something to be better aware of....

I'm also surprised on how many views it has had but very few see fit to grace the thread with their posts when this character "Jordan Maxwell" is claimed responsible for a large part of this movement.

the gospel according to you haha!

I wasn't attempting to preach in this post, not so sure what you mean...though it reminded me of that old show "The Brass Eye" .. the New Gospel excerpt: "Jesus didn't know he was Jesus until he had been chained to the radiator for sometime" lmaowafflecakes!

[Kulapops]

Who knows if any of it is true ?? Unless some information, event or person has deliberately crossed your life to make you think otherwise.

This is not the case for me. So it's easy to look at all the spin and hype behind flu..fema..illuminati..WWIII... I mean, take your pick... there is soooo much damn stuff to 'worry' about that that in itself makes me skeptical.

I mean, it seems like the name of the game is worry.. and how to make a living out of it. Whether you are preaching it, or acting on it.

Not surprising really, I mean.. we exist.. we wish to survive. No wonder we take an interest.

My take is that...in all likelihood, your life will be over or a significant chunk of it (even two years was way too much in my case) before any of these issues are ever proven or resolved.

Third world war ? Check out the 80's.

For all we know, an awful lot of us have perhaps less time left than we think. Not counting any kind of armageddon or take over or police state.

So my question out there is: Knowing this, how are you going to spend the time you have left?

I can see no further spiritual advancement for myself here at Avalon, because the overwhelming interest is in unprovable phenomenon and bedtime stories.

I keep an eye out, in case the populous ever want something different... I live in hope.

K

[illuminate]

Posted by Kulapops (here)
I mean, it seems like the name of the game is worry.. and how to make a living out of it. Whether you are preaching it, or acting on it.

!

Posted by Kulapops (here)
I live in hope.

such a beautiful place to be

love in you

[Scott]

Seriously? Chris White's cult of bible thumping debunkers rides again!
Same old program, different names.

[Baelsfire]

Hey Aztar

Is Chris White one of the guys responsible for the "debunker" film? To be fair, both Jordan and Chris both thump the bible then? heh..

If you mean me, im not a Christian (an amalgamation of cults?) And i only posted this here on the basis that it hasn't been already (according to search results) and on the agenda of hearing peoples thoughts 'n opinions And to try be objective, albeit in a rambling sense lol!

[Steven]

Who made the debunking and why? Keep in mind Jordan Maxwell has a lot, a lot of enemies. Enemies acquired over more years than my 41 years age. Powerful enemies, the catholic church, the 13 families, the Jesuits to name a few. Add to this Jordan being probably one of the most popular and notorious in his field, this attract a lot of "paparazzi of faux-pas", observing each steps he makes to gather enough mistake from him to build a well debunking program about him.

On the other hand, if you make a quick search on Chris White, you will notice this guy is on a "crusade". He debunks just about anything, anyone that contradicts the christian belief system. I say debunk the debunker. Jordan has said things which was not accurate over the years, who doesn't? Their is truth and false things in his talks like in just any talks. What matters is that there is enough truth coming out from various people so we can compare and make links to discern what is probably the truth.

Chris was one of Avalon1 member and came a few time to debunk, or preach,

Edit: Have you seen the little video Bill made with Jordan at the vatican? Wow! We must admit, it takes some guts to do that.

Namaste, Steven

[Grizzom]

Here's some good reading about Mr Pine






@ Baelsfire

Don't get mad at me, you asked for truth and sometimes it hurts.
I was a fan of all of the people you listed, just like you.

Anymore I just listen to them for entertainment, and sort out the facts from the fluff.

[unplugged]

Posted by 777 (here)
. . .But let me adress this through another high ranking freemason: Manly P Hall. Here is a guy (reportedly) at the tip of the masonic iceberg. He has perpetually released information regarding the occult, secret societies, freemasonry and ancient esotericism seemingly with no response from the powers that be, otherwise why would he?! Maybe this is a deliberate act of disinformation.

Manly Hall left his ENTIRE collection of materials (published and unpublished) to Jordan Maxwell. I'm almost finished listening to a 19-part youtube lecture by Jordan and I am impressed with the "rightness" of his desire and his genuine attunement with Inner Being. In my opinion he is a good, kind-hearted, well-intentioned, brilliant, scholarly man.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Baelsfire (here)
Is Jordan part of a deliberate deception?

Absolutely not.

Posted by Baelsfire (here)
Is he simply misinformed on some points?

Some of his etymology is incorrect, and I've drawn his attention to that. (Other things I thought were incorrect... then I did the research and found out I was wrong!)

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Kulapops (here)
Who knows if any of it is true ?? Unless some information, event or person has deliberately crossed your life to make you think otherwise.

This is not the case for me. So it's easy to look at all the spin and hype behind flu..fema..illuminati..WWIII... I mean, take your pick... there is soooo much damn stuff to 'worry' about that that in itself makes me skeptical.

I mean, it seems like the name of the game is worry.. and how to make a living out of it. Whether you are preaching it, or acting on it.

Not surprising really, I mean.. we exist.. we wish to survive. No wonder we take an interest.

My take is that...in all likelihood, your life will be over or a significant chunk of it (even two years was way too much in my case) before any of these issues are ever proven or resolved.

Third world war ? Check out the 80's.

For all we know, an awful lot of us have perhaps less time left than we think. Not counting any kind of armageddon or take over or police state.

So my question out there is: Knowing this, how are you going to spend the time you have left?

I can see no further spiritual advancement for myself here at Avalon, because the overwhelming interest is in unprovable phenomenon and bedtime stories.

I keep an eye out, in case the populous ever want something different... I live in hope.

K

A very astute observation - I must agree.

[Baelsfire]

Posted by Grizzom (here)
Here's some good reading about Mr Pine

@ Baelsfire

Don't get mad at me, you asked for truth and sometimes it hurts.
I was a fan of all of the people you listed, just like you.

Anymore I just listen to them for entertainment, and sort out the facts from the fluff.

I'm not mad at you, i just wasn't sure of where you stood on the matter As for the driving license thing.. that doesn't really make me think any less of "Jordan", seeing as the idea you (any natural flesh and blood being) needs permission to travel is somewhat crazy anyway! I'm sure your Native American Avatar friend would agree

[Baelsfire]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Some of his etymology is incorrect, and I've drawn his attention to that. (Other things I thought were incorrect... then I did the research and found out I was wrong!)

This follows on with a point in my first post, as debunkers often follow an agenda to maintain status quo, that when a few of his points are proven or successfully suggested to be erroneous translations then the hope is that it will invalidate all his research and presenting's in the eye of the viewer.

I myself am aware of this as a tactic of professional CounterIntelligence and also general idiots (what's the difference one might ask?).

An great lot of what Jordan says resonates with me, and my experiences and view on realities. There are specific things where i think, whooaa, he's well off there!

This mainly is because he is, in my opinion, devout to using the "bibles" as a lens. He claims not to speak Hebrew, so he is always relying on other peoples interpretations of what the Old Testament is meant to say - and interpretations are never uniform. As for the new testament material... well, hell, he may as well through the books in the bin there and go back to source in my opinion. Its blatantly obvious to me that these in particular are carefully distorted and manipulated amalgamation of other "Myths" stemming from an assortment of places/cultures which served the purpose of the fascist catholic society being created. It would seem wise to me to instead go back to source materials and compare from that angle.

Of course, he does that.. a little. Still clutching that damn bible though. Something that resonates fear.

Am i rambling again?

[Tommy]

Hi,

Personally I don't think it exists any "hoaxer" inside Jordan Maxwell, he is waaay to complex and he would have to be a high grade actor in order to perform his statements without showing at least suspicious body language. (as many know, body language is the best lie-detector. I seriously have problems seeing what Jordan would get out of a hoax like this in the first place.

However it is always important to question any whistle-blowers testimony, but I believe the best way to do so is basing it on your own research, not a bias "exposure" video. I am not a fan of bias concepts in general.

But again, do a search on any PC\PA whistleblower (eg. "Project Camelot Hoax", "Bob Dean" hoax and etc.) and you will find tons of people desperate to hide the truths from their self, and they have no problem sending other people on the wrong path as long as it fits with their own "world picture". I find it intriguing when someone feels like they can mark "hoax" on the entire project camelot concept for example. Are people not aware that these whistleblowers are individuals with their own agendas and intentions, also the fact that many was on the scene long before PC? I laugh when I try to use their rationale, simply because I think to myself it can not make sense to any intelligent life-form, however I stop laughing when I eventually realize the danger in such ignorant forces. Danger to other perhaps unwillingly ignorant or simply for those who have yet to awaken their potential. For us on this forum these "hoax" people should be a non-issue though.

Thats my ramble on the topic, now have a listen to the track below and listen to some sense (give it a little time for the Wise man to start talking, you might know it )

[Scott]

Posted by Baelsfire (here)
This follows on with a point in my first post, as debunkers often follow an agenda to maintain status quo, that when a few of his points are proven or successfully suggested to be erroneous translations then the hope is that it will invalidate all his research and presenting's in the eye of the viewer.

I myself am aware of this as a tactic of professional CounterIntelligence and also general idiots (what's the difference one might ask?).

An great lot of what Jordan says resonates with me, and my experiences and view on realities. There are specific things where i think, whooaa, he's well off there!

This mainly is because he is, in my opinion, devout to using the "bibles" as a lens. He claims not to speak Hebrew, so he is always relying on other peoples interpretations of what the Old Testament is meant to say - and interpretations are never uniform. As for the new testament material... well, hell, he may as well through the books in the bin there and go back to source in my opinion. Its blatantly obvious to me that these in particular are carefully distorted and manipulated amalgamation of other "Myths" stemming from an assortment of places/cultures which served the purpose of the fascist catholic society being created. It would seem wise to me to instead go back to source materials and compare from that angle.

Of course, he does that.. a little. Still clutching that damn bible though. Something that resonates fear.

Am i rambling again?

I for one do not think you are rambling, your making clear, concise statements flavored with your individual knowledge.

[Tommy]

I agree that there may very well be a lot of counter-intelligence\propaganda going on, but I personally view the "John\Jane Does" as their worst threat to them self and others who are not aware.
A magnet can draw and push at the same, however you\we are the one who decides if there is going to be more + than -

It is not about controlling the info, it's about bringing the correct info and not mislead people no matter which side of the pond you are standing on.
The same rule should (yes we all know) apply to both sides, no doubt.

[RedeZra]

Posted by Baelsfire (here)
As for the new testament material... well, hell, he may as well through the books in the bin there and go back to source in my opinion.

you seem to know where you're heading hehe


shall I even bother to elaborate


since you've already made up your mind

I would only waste my time


some souls go to hell with the head held high



where is the merit in mocking the martyrs