Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

[Marianne]

Oh! I just remembered, Muzz started a couple of good threads on farming and getting the most from your land, even if you don't have any!

here:
The Urban Farming Guys
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...n-Farming-Guys

and here:
How 1 Million Pounds of Organic Food Can Be Produced o 3 Acres
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ced-On-3-Acres.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
If you eat it that way, it will leach the moisture out of you when you attempt to digest it.
That is a quick way to go down with heat exhaustion/dehydration out in the field.

Wouldn't it work to drink some water if you're thirsty?

One does not have to pre-mix these things, by for example re-hydrating the food.
The stomach and digestive organs are a pretty good "mix master."

[Mod-edit: toned down attitude a notch. -Paul.]

[Ron Mauer Sr]

One would be missing a pleasant experience if one ate dehydrated food that had been packaged as meal (spaghetti and meat sauce, chili mac, chicken ala king, scrambled eggs, etc.) without adding water.

I would suggest visiting a local store that caters to campers, hikers, etc. and purchase some Mountain House brand meals packaged in Mylar. You might be pleasantly surprised how good it tastes by removing the oxygen absorber, adding boiling water to the bag, sealing the zip top, then waiting for 10 minutes.

If you like the samples, consider purchasing the same food packaged in #10 cans from one of the many online sources. I can recommend beprepared.com. The #10 cans are more economical than the mylar bags, but more bulky.

Water is critical. Make sure you have a supply. Fortunate are those who have a well and a very skinny well bucket. A lake or stream can be used if a quality water filter is used.

A plan to get and store water should be at the top of the preparation list.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
If you eat it that way, it will leach the moisture out of you when you attempt to digest it.
That is a quick way to go down with heat exhaustion/dehydration out in the field.

Wouldn't it work to drink some water if you're thirsty?

One does not have to pre-mix these things, by for example re-hydrating the food.
The stomach and digestive organs are a pretty good "mix master."

How much water do you think an infantryman or hiker can carry?
How much do they need per day in average conditions walking?

[Mod-edit - removed objections to my (now mod-edited out) attitude. -Paul.]

[Arrowwind]

A hydrophonic growing system is something to consider if you have no land or are an apartment dweller. Just think of all the pot thats been grown this way.. well you can grow veggies also... just need lots of buckets, water lines, minerals for the water and grow lights, ph test strips.

Meat rabbits can be grown inside or on a balcony. We're having rabbit for dinner tonight that our neighbor raised.

[GlassSteagallfan]

Recommended book - Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew

On ebay right now for $1.00

[EileenCookies]

I thought I add some notes for those unable to garden (for whatever reason). First I recommend getting good at savings. A book called "Your money or your life" assisted me by pointing out (in a likeable fashion) where my expendures were focused (thus allowing me to pick and choose what I wanted to have (what is important) in my life)...without feeling a sense of loss (since I felt good just noticing what I was spending on, without guilt....then later choose what to not spend on). I noticed lots of gidgets (unneccessary items I was filling my life with). I cut my expenses in half.

I kind of left that structure after that point (as spending half of what I was was very helpful...but the rest of the ideas in the book didn't help me...still looking as to the reasons....not that revelent...obviously).

Now, after several years, I like to put aside food, hygiene products, toilettrees and so forth. How to do that? I have extremely limited storage (I felt) and I didn't have money to buy products. Then I saw the series on TV called "Extreme couponing". As most of these ideas didn't help me (I could see that if I had a car, for example, they might), I at first just let it go, but watched it anyway. Then ideas started coming to me as to what I could do. One step each day seems to come to me. Where I could put a few extra items in my room (go up). Where I could store items successfully in a filthy overused already garage (use boxes, label with my name (other people use it indescrimately) and so on. In terms of not being able to use a computer (and watch out for those viruses please!...I bought a second computer, used cheap and portable to take care of this issue....), as I have EMF sensitivies (so I limited my useage,...alot), how could I use couponing to help? Then I realized I could get a book on how to do it (there are several) and learn to write letters to manufactures I liked for free stuff (ever hear of a pen and pencil and a stamp?). Now I am on my way. One tiny step, every day, moves me forward. So can everyone save this way. Watch the show and learn how.

lv
eh

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
The only problem with dehydrated foods is that it needs our most valuable resource, water, to rehydrate again.
This isn't practical in a situation where you have low supplies.
I couldn't believe it when I saw the MREs that the USMC carried had a lot of dehydrated junk in it.
It is all well and good when the supply chain is working well, when it is not, you are using the water you can't afford to use.
You should see the amount of water you use daily in the field, just for drinking, even in the cold.

People could always stockpile water. I can't help thinking dehydrated food might have just a slight edge on no food at all lol

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Good thread. Thanks!

I live in a tiny studio apartment while I pay down debts and save up to buy some land near Shasta. I'm interested in tips and techniques for apartment dwellers with little space. I've been interested in indoor gardening for years, but have never tried it.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
The only problem with dehydrated foods is that it needs our most valuable resource, water, to rehydrate again.
This isn't practical in a situation where you have low supplies.
I couldn't believe it when I saw the MREs that the USMC carried had a lot of dehydrated junk in it.
It is all well and good when the supply chain is working well, when it is not, you are using the water you can't afford to use.
You should see the amount of water you use daily in the field, just for drinking, even in the cold.

People could always stockpile water. I can't help thinking dehydrated food might have just a slight edge on no food at all lol

If you are stationary, possibly.
If you are mobile, much harder.
I have watched the supply echelons working on bringing water out and you guys might be surprised how much 10 guys need per day.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
Good thread. Thanks!

I live in a tiny studio apartment while I pay down debts and save up to buy some land near Shasta. I'm interested in tips and techniques for apartment dwellers with little space. I've been interested in indoor gardening for years, but have never tried it.

Wheatgrass and sprouts are nutritious supplements easily grown in an apartment that can be added to a food production program if water is available. All you need is a Mason jar, a porous lid, water and seeds. If water is not available you must move. Have a water plan.

Here are links from the Food Production page:

Sproutman
SproutPeople
Sprouting Guide
Sprouting
Mumm’s Sprouting Seeds
Good Sprout News

[onawah]

For indoor gardening where sunlight is scarce, Full Spectrum light bulbs are very useful.
Also good for counteracting the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder.
I've been using bulbs I order from Dr. Mercola's website.
Another PA member who is knowledgeable on the subject, on a thread about the dangers of ordinary CFLs checked them out and said they are good.
I emailed Dr. Mercola's site to inquire about mercury in the bulbs and was told that mercury was used in the manufacturing process, but these Full Spectrum bulbs do not contain a lot of mercury like the ordinary CFLs do, though there may be very minute traces.
They lift my mood in the winter and my indoor plants and wheat grass trays, sprouts, etc. do well since I started using them.
Also very good value, as they last a long time.

[EileenCookies]

Onawah, thanks for the bulb advice. I will pass it along tonight to my former brother in law in washington state (he seems to be suffering from this...S.A.D. too).

On sprouting:
I like the idea of growing plants indoors (though I am not able to as I don't actually have a place). I did do sprouting for a while in a cupboard, but the sprouts often rotted. Too much dampness? Hard to fix weather related issues. Didn't come up with a solution myself. Any ideas anyone?

[EileenCookies]

On "extreme couponing" there are various issues. My mother just pointed out that in California it isn't legal for the stores to double the coupons (I did notice there were none in my area, santa cruz, doing it any longer). But I did just order a book from amazon on how to do it (took my own advice). As just watching the show didn't give enough clues to just do it (without getting frustrated). But as I am having luck now doing it, I can give my own version on how it really works (no hype).

I did just save $8 on shipping by buying an additional product on amazon (and the book at full price, ...there were no cheaper used ones) and using the 'free super shipping' program. So savings already!

lv
eh

[sshenry]

Container gardening is great for anyone who has limited space (no yard or very little yard). Especially for apartment dwellers (if you have good, sunny windows) or on balconies or patios.

I lived in a townhouse with a pocket-handkerchief sized (north facing) yard for 3 years, but practiced container gardening on my miniscule (south facing) front porch/patio. For three of us I was able to harvest enough lettuce, tomatoes, greenbeans, carrots and summer squash to last us all year by preserving/freezing etc. AND it didn't interfere with the homeowner by-laws (since they were in containers, not planted).

There are tons of websites/books etc. on Container gardening

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Posted by EileenCookies (here)

On sprouting:
I like the idea of growing plants indoors (though I am not able to as I don't actually have a place). I did do sprouting for a while in a cupboard, but the sprouts often rotted. Too much dampness? Hard to fix weather related issues. Didn't come up with a solution myself. Any ideas anyone?

Copied from http://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/ultimate-sprouting-guide/#4

Uh oh!!!!!

If you see mold on your sprouts, or notice any other odd things DO NOT eat them. If you do have mold on your sprouts here are a few things you might consider doing differently next time to prevent it.Sprout Mold

-Improve air circulation. Although cabinets work most of the time, sometimes you will not have enough fresh air flowing to your seeds. If this is the case try some other dark location, or add a small fan to improve circulation.
-Make sure your seeds are properly drained. Poor drainage is a leading cause of mold, that’s why we angle our jars.
-Clean your sprouter and any equipment used in the process (including your hands)
-Try using colder water during rinses and consider adding an additional rinse per day
-Consider switching to a different sprouter

[onawah]

Hi EileenCookies in Santa Cruz
(I used to live there-miss the mountains, redwoods and ocean! )
If you are using jars for sprouting things like alfalfa or clover, I would recommend getting some kind of sprouting device that affords more ventilation.
Heat definitely makes sprouting the smaller seeds a problem, but ventilation and air circulation will help.
The fan idea from rmauersr is a good one and all his other suggestions.

Posted by EileenCookies (here)
Onawah, thanks for the bulb advice. I will pass it along tonight to my former brother in law in washington state (he seems to be suffering from this...S.A.D. too).

On sprouting:
I like the idea of growing plants indoors (though I am not able to as I don't actually have a place). I did do sprouting for a while in a cupboard, but the sprouts often rotted. Too much dampness? Hard to fix weather related issues. Didn't come up with a solution myself. Any ideas anyone?

[Arrowwind]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
Good thread. Thanks!

I live in a tiny studio apartment while I pay down debts and save up to buy some land near Shasta. I'm interested in tips and techniques for apartment dwellers with little space. I've been interested in indoor gardening for years, but have never tried it.

I think hydrophonic gardening is the way to go if you have little space in an appartment. You can do it outside in the summer and inside in the winter.
Food storage is critical. You must store food and not rely on what you grow for at least 3 years! Do you really think you can figure out growing stuff fast enough to survive? Let me tell you . Its not easy.

Throw that dining room table away. Get 9 or 12 five gallon bucket (depending on how big your dining room is) filled with dried food that you think you can eat. I store red beans, pintos, white rice, lentals, white beans, cornmeal, oat meal and wheat.. On top of the 9 buckets you have placed in the middle of your dinnig room get some 3 gallon buckets and store food in those also. They are smaller buckets and can set on top of the 9 larger buckets. Now you have a pedestal for a table. Place plywood on top and cover with a table cloth. Now you have enough dried food to last 2 people about 2 years. Now get about 12 small buckets with gamma lids and I find all this stuff at Walmart in the food department, they usually have an Emergency Essentials section. These hold about 2 gallons. Just stack them up and put them in a closet for that rainy day. When you are ready to use your stored food you pull out the storage buckets and fill the small buckets. These are what you will be taking food out of on a a daily basis. The large buckets go back under the table. Another option is to make like a sideboard, in the dining room. just stack your buckets two high. place a board on top and cover with a table cloth.


Purchase a small chest freezer and hope to god that what ever happens that you will have electricity. This can also be decorated as a table. Put it in a bedroom is you must. Find a local farmer and request to purchase a half or quarter side of beef. This is where you will keep it. If your not into meat put frozen veggies in there. You can look on craigs list under farm supplies. People who sell beef often list on there. Purchasing a quarter is harder than a half. You will have to find some one to go in on it with you most times.

We have a large box top loading freezer. Never get an upright as they melt down twice as fast. I know it is a risk if we loose electiricty. But in my neck of the woods for 7 months we are froze in anyway. If the electriciy goes out that time of the year the freezer gets moved from the garage to outside.

Learn how to can. Have canning suppies and a dehydrater. Dont wait for a crisis to purchase this stuff because you will never find it then and now you still have time to look around for used stuff. I bought a used bath canner for $6.50. A really large one. New your looking at $50. Even if you dont can you may find someone who has access to food but no canning supplies. Store mason jars under the bed. You can even raise your bed 10 or 12 inches to store more stuff. There are places on the net to order extra long bedskirts or you can make one so your not looking at that stuff all the time.

If you do not still have sufficient space find someone to go in on renting a storage unit who is into survival also. You can store lots of stuff for about $20 a month each. Hold out for a storage space in walking distance. ... or perhaps a freind with a garage that can be locked, or a basement.

You could raise rabbits in a rented storage unit or in your own house or on a balcony. They do not require to be inside when it is cold. The cage should be protected from wind and rain though. In time you can fill up a freezer with rabbit. Its really good. Tastes much like chicken but much easier to raise. If your handy you can make rabbit cages yourself.

All this tuff that you have purchased will be stuff you want to have on your land when you get there so there really is no waste. This will be about a $1,000 investment and let me tell you the cost of dried beans and rice is going nowwhere but up.

Start collecting seed. Put it in ziplock bags. Press all the air out when closing. Store in fridge is best but not absolutley necessary. Dry and out of heat and light is essential. An old shoe box in the back of the closet is good enough if there are no mice around... or in Mason jars.

Shasta area is beautiful and I have fond memories of it.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Earlier, I spoke a little about making washes to drive away pests but I feel remiss in that I neglected to mention nature's own pest control detail.

Ladybirds are a very welcome sign for gardeners, since they eat aphids and other common garden pests on a huge scale and there are certain things a gardener can do to attract them to his garden. There are three key things that a gardener can do to maximise his ladybird population:

• Attractive plants. Dandelions and nettles are the two top plants for attracting ladybirds. Nettles especially are beloved by ladybirds as places for laying eggs, which is exactly the kind of behaviour gardeners want to encourage: the more ladybird eggs that are laid in the garden, the greater the population next summer.
• Provide shelter. This maybe sounds like a weird one, but ladybirds are well known for infesting human habitations because of the warmth and shelter they provide. I've never known anybody complain about such infestations, though, because I think most people have fond thoughts of ladybirds. You don't have to give up house room to these gardenwolves, though; you can create comfortable habitats for them in the garden. Small wooden tubes with holes in them provide shelter, as do any installations which provide corners and nooks and crannies. Such shelter provides a much better environment for hibernation than leaving them to their own devices beneath clumps of grass. (Ladybirds often don't survive the winter, but if they can (by finding suitable accommodation) they overwinter very successfully — such overwintering populations allow for a more resilient ladybird population from year to year).
• Provide food. Now, this somewhat goes against the grain as gardeners, but allow and even encourage aphids to grow on a few plants. As my least useful plant, I tend to let the roses bear the brunt of this. Ladybirds feed on aphids and by allowing a few aphid colonies to amass on certain plants, you provide the food and incentive for a sturdy population of ladybirds — which will then protect your other, probably more important plants.
• Learn to identify them. Ladybirds are unmistakable little things, even children can point out a ladybird with surety. The larval forms are less obvious. They appear as somewhat flattened caterpillars with six insect legs and the reverse of the adult pattern (mostly black with a few orange-red spots). The eggs you might never notice, since they are about 2mm big. They are laid in clusters on the undersides of leaves (nettle and dandelion being the most common places). If you see their larval forms, remember not to squash them. Strange though they seem, they are just the baby forms of your garden hands :-)

In addition to their useful role as crowd control, ladybirds also play a role in pollinating flowers. As for that role, though, I'm looking into keeping bees. I'll let you know how that works out, unless they take me out and then you're on your own ;-)

[Ilie Pandia]

This is a most useful thread! Even if I can't contribute much I'd like to know more so please keep it up!