Spiritual encounters of all kind - war for souls

[shiva777]

yeah,you have no idea Chris,you say "Every enlighten being has said the same thing since time began."...our history "since time began" has been largely erased and replaced by partial truths and partial "enlightened masters and experiences"...the teachings and experiences that are a result of our DNA being shut down and that's what the "enlightened beings" have been limited by

we are both formless and in FORM at the SAME TIME...one does not come before the other,time is simultaneous..


the lies and ignorance have been perpetuated for thousands of years and you are continuing it,look for the EVOLVING spiritual understandings and info being provided now...away from the clever dogma and tricks back to spiritual SCIENCE and the meeting of the mind and heart

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

[greybeard]

Ps Consciousness is rising at the moment and when Kundalini energy rises in the body it rewires our nervous system in order to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
Up till now because of the heavy density of Earth enlightenment has been rare, that is changing. Kundalini energy is rising in many at the moment.
Kundalini could be likened to Chi or even The Holy Spirit, this way there is more of God energy electrons in embodiment.--
its a complex subject but well documented in Indian texts --- non religious.
Just Love God and your fellow man -- What else is needed?
I suggest leave the rest to God
Chris

[MariaDine]

I leave here a text i like very much. Namaste

Freedom of Fear
An anthropologist once questioned an Alaskan shaman about his tribe's belief system. After putting up with the anthropologist's questions for a while, the shaman finally told him: "Look. We don't believe. We fear."

His words have intrigued me ever since I first heard them. I've also been intrigued by the responses I get when I share his words with my friends. Some say that the shaman unconsciously put his finger on the line separating primitive religion from civilized religion: primitive religion is founded on childish fear; civilized religion, on love, trust, and joy. Others maintain that the shaman cut through the pretensions and denials of civilized religion and pointed to the true source of all serious religious life.

If we dig down to the assumptions underlying these two responses, we find that the first response views fear itself as our greatest weakness. If we can simply overcome fear, we put ourselves in a position of strength. The second sees fear as the most honest response to our greater weakness in the face of aging, illness, and death — a weakness that can't be overcome with a simple change in attitude. If we're not in touch with our honest fears, we won't feel motivated to do what's needed to protect ourselves from genuine dangers.

So — which attitude toward fear is childish, and which is mature? Is there an element of truth in both? If so, how can those elements best be combined? These questions are best answered by rephrasing them: To what extent is fear a useful emotion? To what extent is it not? Does it have a role in the practice that puts an end to fear?

The Buddhist answer to these questions is complex. This is due partly to Buddhism's dual roots — both as a civilized and as a wilderness tradition — and also to the complexity of fear itself, even in its most primal forms. Think of a deer at night suddenly caught in a hunter's headlights. It's confused. Angry. It senses danger, and that it's weak in the face of the danger. It wants to escape. These five elements — confusion, aversion, a sense of danger, a sense of weakness, and a desire to escape — are present, to a greater or lesser extent, in every fear. The confusion and aversion are the unskillful elements. Even if the deer has many openings to escape from the hunter, its confusion and aversion might cause it to miss them. The same holds true for human beings. The mistakes and evils we commit when finding ourselves weak in the face of danger come from confusion and aversion.

Maddeningly, however, there are also evils that we commit out of complacency, when oblivious to actual dangers: the callous things we do when we feel we can get away with them. Thus the last three elements of fear — the perception of weakness, the perception of danger, and the desire to escape it — are needed to avoid the evils coming from complacency. If stripped of confusion and aversion, these three elements become a positive quality, heedfulness — something so essential to the practice that the Buddha devoted his last words to it. The dangers of life are real. Our weaknesses are real. If we don't see them clearly, don't take them to heart, and don't try to find a way out, there's no way we can put an end to the causes of our fears. Just like the deer: if it's complacent about the hunter's headlights, it's going to end up strapped to the fender for sure.

So to genuinely free the mind from fear, we can't simply deny that there's any reason for fear. We have to overcome the cause of fear: the mind's weaknesses in the face of very real dangers. The elegance of the Buddha's approach to this problem, though, lies in his insight into the confusion — or to use the standard Buddhist term, the delusion — that makes fear unskillful. Despite the complexity of fear, delusion is the single factor that, in itself, is both the mind's prime weakness and its greatest danger. Thus the Buddha approaches the problem of fear by focusing on delusion, and he attacks delusion in two ways: getting us to think about its dangerous role in making fear unskillful, and getting us to develop inner strengths leading to the insights that free the mind from the delusions that make it weak. In this way we not only overcome the factor that makes fear unskillful. We ultimately put the mind in a position where it has no need for fear.

When we think about how delusion infects fear and incites us to do unskillful things, we see that it can act in two ways. First, the delusions surrounding our fears can cause us to misapprehend the dangers we face, seeing danger where there is none, and no danger where there is. If we obsess over non-existent or trivial dangers, we'll squander time and energy building up useless defenses, diverting our attention from genuine threats. If, on the other hand, we put the genuine dangers of aging, illness, and death out of our minds, we grow complacent in our actions. We let ourselves cling to things — our bodies, our loved ones, our possessions, our views — that leave us exposed to aging, illness, separation, and death in the first place. We allow our cravings to take charge of the mind, sometimes to the point of doing evil with impunity, thinking we're immune to the results of our evil, that those results will never return to harm us.

The more complacent we are about the genuine dangers lying in wait all around us, the more shocked and confused we become when they actually hit. This leads to the second way in which the delusions surrounding our fears promote unskillful actions: we react to genuine dangers in ways that, instead of ending the dangers, actually create new ones. We amass wealth to provide security, but wealth creates a high profile that excites jealousy in others. We build walls to keep out dangerous people, but those walls become our prisons. We stockpile weapons, but they can easily be turned against us.

The most unskillful response to fear is when, perceiving dangers to our own life or property, we believe that we can gain strength and security by destroying the lives and property of others. The delusion pervading our fear makes us lose perspective. If other people were to act in this way, we would know they were wrong. But somehow, when we feel threatened, our standards change, our perspective warps, so that wrong seems right as long as we're the ones doing it.

This is probably the most disconcerting human weakness of all: our inability to trust ourselves to do the right thing when the chips are down. If standards of right and wrong are meaningful only when we find them convenient, they have no real meaning at all.

Fortunately, though, the area of life posing the most danger and insecurity is the area where, through training, we can make the most changes and exercise the most control. Although aging, illness, and death follow inevitably on birth, delusion doesn't. It can be prevented. If, through thought and contemplation, we become heedful of the dangers it poses, we can feel motivated to overcome it. However, the insights coming from simple thought and contemplation aren't enough to fully understand and overthrow delusion. It's the same as with any revolution: no matter how much you may think about the matter, you don't really know the tricks and strengths of entrenched powers until you amass your own troops and do battle with them. And only when your own troops develop their own tricks and strengths can they come out on top. So it is with delusion: only when you develop mental strengths can you see through the delusions that give fear its power. Beyond that, these strengths can put you in a position where you are no longer exposed to dangers ever again.

The Canon lists these mental strengths at five: conviction, persistence, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment. It also emphasizes the role that heedfulness plays in developing each, for heedfulness is what enables each strength to counteract a particular delusion that makes fear unskillful, and the mind weak in the face of its fears. What this means is that none of these strengths are mere brute forces. Each contains an element of wisdom and discernment, which gets more penetrating as you progress along the list.

Of the five strengths, conviction requires the longest explanation, both because it's one of the most misunderstood and under-appreciated factors in the Buddhist path, and because of the multiple delusions it has to counteract.

The conviction here is conviction in the principle of karma: that the pleasure and pain we experience depends on the quality of the intentions on which we act. This conviction counteracts the delusion that "It's not in my best interest to stick to moral principles in the face of danger," and it attacks this delusion in three ways.

First, it insists on what might be called the "boomerang" or "spitting into the wind" principle of karmic cause and effect. If you act on harmful intentions, regardless of the situation, the harm will come back to you. Even if unskillful actions such as killing, stealing, or lying might bring short-term advantages, these are more than offset by the long-term harm to which they leave you exposed.

Conversely, this same principle can make us brave in doing good. If we're convinced that the results of skillful intentions will have to return to us even if death intervenes, we can more easily make the sacrifices demanded by long-term endeavors for our own good and that of others. Whether or not we live to see the results in this lifetime, we're convinced that the good we do is never lost. In this way, we develop the courage needed to build a store of skillful actions — generous and virtuous — that forms our first line of defense against dangers and fear.

Second, conviction insists on giving priority to your state of mind above all else, for that's what shapes your intentions. This counteracts the corollary to the first delusion: "What if sticking to my principles makes it easier for people to do me harm?" This question is based ultimately on the delusion that life is our most precious possession. If that were true, it would be a pretty miserable possession, for it heads inexorably to death. Conviction views our life as precious only to the extent that it's used to develop the mind, for the mind — when developed — is something that no one, not even death, can harm. "Quality of life" is measured by the quality and integrity of the intentions on which we act, just as "quality time" is time devoted to the practice. Or, in the Buddha's words:

Better than a hundred years
lived without virtue, uncentered, is
one day
lived by a virtuous person
absorbed in jhana.
— Dhp 110

Third, conviction insists that the need for integrity is unconditional. Even though other people may throw away their most valuable possession — their integrity — it's no excuse for us to throw away ours. The principle of karma isn't a traffic ordinance in effect only on certain hours of the day or certain days of the week. It's a law operating around the clock, around the cycles of the cosmos.

Some people have argued that, because the Buddha recognized the principle of conditionality, he would have no problem with the idea that our virtues should depend on conditions as well. This is a misunderstanding of the principle. To begin with, conditionality doesn't simply mean that everything is changeable and contingent. It's like the theory of relativity. Relativity doesn't mean that all things are relative. It simply replaces mass and time — which long were considered constants — with another, unexpected constant: the speed of light. Mass and time may be relative to a particular inertial frame, as the frame relates to the speed of light, but the laws of physics are constant for all inertial frames, regardless of speed.

In the same way, conditionality means that there are certain unchanging patterns to contingency and change — one of those patterns being that unskillful intentions, based on craving and delusion, invariably lead to unpleasant results.

If we learn to accept this pattern, rather than our feelings and opinions, as absolute, it requires us to become more ingenious in dealing with danger. Instead of following our unskillful knee-jerk reactions, we learn to think outside the box to find responses that best prevent harm of any kind. This gives our actions added precision and grace.

At the same time, we have to note that the Buddha didn't teach conditionality simply to encourage acceptance for the inevitability of change. He taught it to show how the patterns underlying change can be mastered to create an opening that leads beyond conditionality and change. If we want to reach the unconditioned — the truest security — our integrity has to be unconditional, a gift of temporal security not only to those who treat us well, but to everyone, without exception. As the texts say, when you abstain absolutely from doing harm, you give a great gift — freedom from danger to limitless beings — and you yourself find a share in that limitless freedom as well.

Conviction and integrity of this sort make great demands on us. Until we gain our first taste of the unconditioned, they can easily be shaken. This is why they have to be augmented with other mental strengths. The three middle strengths — persistence, mindfulness, and concentration — act in concert. Persistence, in the form of right effort, counteracts the delusion that we're no match for our fears, that once they arise we have to give into them. Right effort gives us practice in eliminating milder unskillful qualities and developing skillful ones in their place, so that when stronger unskillful qualities arise, we can use our skillful qualities as allies in fending them off. The strength of mindfulness assists this process in two ways. (1) It reminds us of the danger of giving in to fear. (2) It teaches us to focus our attention, not on the object of our fear, but on the fear in and of itself as a mental event, something we can watch from the outside rather jumping in and going along for a ride. The strength of concentration, in providing the mind with a still center of wellbeing, puts us in a solid position where we don't feel compelled to identify with fears as they come, and where the comings and goings of internal and external dangers are less and less threatening to the mind.

Even then, though, the mind can't reach ultimate security until it uproots the causes of these comings and goings, which is why the first four strengths require the strength of discernment to make them fully secure. Discernment is what sees that these comings and goings are ultimately rooted in our sense of "I" and "mine," and that "I" and "mine" are not built into experience. They come from the repeated processes of I-making and my-making, in which we impose these notions on experience and identify with things subject to aging, illness, and death. Furthermore, discernment sees through our inner traitors and weaknesses: the cravings that want us to make an "I" and "mine"; the delusions that make us believe in them once they're made. It realizes that this level of delusion is precisely the factor that makes aging, illness, and death dangerous to begin with. If we didn't identify with things that age, grow ill, and die, their aging, illness, and death wouldn't threaten the mind. Totally unthreatened, the mind would have no reason to do anything unskillful ever again.

When this level of discernment matures and bears the fruit of release, our greatest insecurity — our inability to trust ourselves — has been eliminated. Freed from the attachments of "I" and "mine," we find that the component factors of fear — both skillful and unskillful — are gone. There's no remaining confusion or aversion; the mind is no longer weak in the face of danger; and so there's nothing from which we need to escape.

This is where the questions raised by the shaman's remarks find their answers. We fear because we believe in "we." We believe in "we" because of the delusion in our fear. Paradoxically, though, if we love ourselves enough to fear the suffering that comes from unskillful actions and attachments, and learn to believe in the way out, we'll develop the strengths that allow us to cut through our cravings, delusions, and attachments. That way, the entire complex — the "we," the fear, the beliefs, the attachments — dissolves away. The freedom remaining is the only true security there is.

This teaching may offer cold comfort to anyone who wants the impossible: security for his or her attachments. But in trading away the hope for an impossible security, you gain the reality of a happiness totally independent and condition-free. Once you've made this trade, you know that the pay-off is more than worth the price. As one of the Buddha's students once reported, "Before, when I was a householder, maintaining the bliss of kingship, I had guards posted within and without the royal apartments, within and without the city, within and without the countryside. But even though I was thus guarded, thus protected, I dwelled in fear — agitated, distrustful, and afraid. But now, on going alone to a forest, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty dwelling, I dwell without fear, unagitated, confident, and unafraid — unconcerned, unruffled, my wants satisfied, with my mind like a wild deer. This is the meaning I have in mind that I repeatedly exclaim, 'What bliss! What bliss!'"

His deer is obviously not the deer in the headlights. It's a deer safe in the wilderness, at its ease wherever it goes. What makes it more than a deer is that, free from attachment, it's called a "consciousness without surface." Light goes right through it. The hunter can't shoot it, for it can't be seen.

[MariaDine]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MTbVVbDpGzM

[greybeard]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
yeah,you have no idea Chris,you say "Every enlighten being has said the same thing since time began."...our history "since time began" has been largely erased and replaced by partial truths and partial "enlightened masters and experiences"...the teachings and experiences that are a result of our DNA being shut down and that's what the "enlightened beings" have been limited by

we are both formless and in FORM at the SAME TIME...one does not come before the other,time is simultaneous..


the lies and ignorance have been perpetuated for thousands of years and you are continuing it,look for the EVOLVING spiritual understandings and info being provided now...away from the clever dogma and tricks back to spiritual SCIENCE and the meeting of the mind and heart

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

With respect.
Go read Dr David Hawkins Truth vs Falsehood.
Everything that has ever happened is recorded in the field of consciousness and can be accessed and verified by using muscle testing kineosology.
Tests have been done over a twenty year period using scientific standards and double binds and are providing consistent answers, only drawback is that only about 20% of the population can do this accurately.
The questioner and the questions must be integreous.
Anyway you are free to believe what you want but that does not necessarily make it so because you are taking some one elses word for it without personal experiencing it to be true, are you not?
I know what I know through subjective personal experience and though I am not enlightened have experienced spiritual states of bliss without being in a meditative state.
I am not trying to convince any one just sharing.
Chris

[shiva777]

Kinesiology is a very limited practice that works within certain parameters but is sorely lacking in ability to connect to higher wisdom and guidance,,the TRUTH changes at every level and Kinesiology works on lower levels..Hawkins is lost in his little paradigm and his Kinesiology has mislead many others,,,as Hawkins says "you can only understand something from the level that you are at"...it's like speaking to a brick wall Chris,you have your walls up

Gautama buddha is being re-educated on the inner planes to get him out of his bliss-bubble and awaken his dormant DNA...his first mistake is that he believed "life is suffering and impermanent"...Our origina human blueprint does not suffer or age or DIE...it is an eternal form that was messed with by Fallen ET groups...our DNA is coming online again and as it does more will see through the misunderstandings and deceptions that Buddha and co were trapped in that resulted in his limited teachings about enlightenment

[morguana]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Ps Consciousness is rising at the moment and when Kundalini energy rises in the body it rewires our nervous system in order to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
Up till now because of the heavy density of Earth enlightenment has been rare, that is changing. Kundalini energy is rising in many at the moment.
Kundalini could be likened to Chi or even The Holy Spirit, this way there is more of God energy electrons in embodiment.--
its a complex subject but well documented in Indian texts --- non religious.
Just Love God and your fellow man -- What else is needed?
I suggest leave the rest to God
Chris

beautifully put chris, am in total agreement with your words
m

[shiva777]

one of the most loving things you can do is to look behind the spiritual and religious dogmas that have mislead humanity in to being naive,loving little servants for false "gods" and distorted dimensional fields...many are waking up to that now and becoming wiser awakened beings who no longer fall for the teachings of the fallen matrix/spiritual realms..

for those who are seeing through the old religious/spiritual paqradigms,this may help...science and spirit evolve to be one and the same thing

www.keylonticdictionary.org

[frank samuel]

I think although we might disagree on many things it is highly dangerous for anyone to proclaim to have or be the absolute truth authority as we are all learning from each other here. Chris has a vast amount of experience as well as many others members here on this forum. Wisdom and spiritual development comes with experience, as a young man I thought I knew the truth and was eager to let everyone have a piece of my truth not understanding that my attitude along was a very poor indicator of that which I was proclaiming to be the truth. The way we carry our message shows a lot about our spiritual state and development. One thing I know for sure everyone has the right to err that does not mean I have to devalue the belief of others by promoting mines. Respect for each others opinion whether we agree with it or not might help to promote the so call truth we all feel so necessary to convey.

Many many blessings to all.

[truthseekerdan]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
one of the most loving things you can do is to look behind the spiritual and religious dogmas

for those who are seeing through the old religious/spiritual paqradigms,this may help...science and spirit evolve to be one and the same thing

I strongly suggest shiva777, that you read Chris' Life Testimony, and see that he is not a religious nor a dogmatic person.
Please read it and decide for yourself. Also will be nice of you to show a little more respect, even if you don't agree with his beliefs or views, you might learn something in the process.
Just wanted to point that out... Thank you for your understanding.

May the Great Spirit enlighten you,

Dan

[Beren]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
of course,everythin g happens in GOD,,,question is are people evolving or devolving in terms of embodying divinity?...we are here to EMBODY GOD,which means activating DNA in OUR bodies so we can EMBODY more GOd conciousness...get some clues as to how our level of Dna activation determines where we go when we die or "ascend" and what we perceive and EXPERIENCE as "love" and God...and so much more

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

I think you do not understand what some are saying. You try to explain unexplainable by materialistic approach. That is irrelevant before God.
It`s just like plasteline which kids get in school to practice molding. For God ,everything material is plasteline.It can always be changed.
And I think you talk about that.

Spiritual way is completely different dimension. Which can not be reached by any mechanical or material means.

[Anchor]

Posted by Beren (here)
John ,you spoke in one of the comments about bad guys utilizing fear, now what do you think about utilizing love on others?
In all of love's forms...

Beren, your question pulls me like a magnet back to this thread

My thinking is that one does not "utilize" love. I will try to explain the idea I have in detail.

In order to form an outcome, one takes action to cause that to happen. In the course of doing that one must have previously had some idea of what it is that one wants to achieve. This is what I mean by intent.

Now, if one's intent is dark, and thus working against the divine flow - the principles of unconditional love, nurturance of life and expansion of consciousness, then one will rely on a strategy of disharmony in order to achieve one's aims. For example, blocking the light with fear, and casting a shadow where love is reduced. This has been possible to do on our planet by the concerted efforts of dark forces, who have led humans into focusing on base things: misused of sexual functions, conflict, disharmony, war and materialism (all kinds of " 'isms " in fact) etc. With the outcome that fear is created in the imprisoned minds – reducing people to building and maintaining their own prisons and being willing and somewhat ignorant slaves to the dark forces.

However, with the changes that are happening now, the normal routine employed by the dark forces is not so effective anymore. The poor old dark forces are trying to hold back an unstoppable tide of light and love. They build sandcastles only to see them washed away - they are finding that they did not build on solid foundations.

On the other hand, if one's intent is going with the flow of the divine then everything is different. Correctly envisioned intent causes the mechanics of the universe simply rush to your aid, and bring with them infinite abundance and resource to manifest the desired outcomes. Everything becomes a lot easier.

We are heading rapidly to a state where the dualities of our reality will be so far behind us, fear won’t even be a factor any more.

In the model I have attempted to describe - the closest thing I can say about "utilizing" love in the sense that I think you mean it is to express love unconditionally. Fear not - Be love - Be here now. Unconditional means not even attempting to judge another's qualities or assessing their right to be on the receiving end of that love. It is not something one plans, when you decide to open your heart, you really need free yourself from inner created judgemental patterns - otherwise it will hurt. The love flows from the universe through the matrices of our being and is transduced into a form that becomes part of our co-created consensus reality.

So what do I personally think (disclaimers on personal opinions apply...) I think mentally expressing blessings for people would be a good example. Even when those people are some of the darkest ever to walk the planet! I think it’s a good idea! Don’t hold back. Embrace the “sandcastles” of duality. Learn from them. Love them - and let your love merge with the tide that will eventually wash them away.

Once again - thanks for the question and this scintillating thread.

It is Friday here and most of the people around me are feeling good about it - that is nice. Bless you all, and I hope you all have an amazing weekend.

John..

[Anchor]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
no, everything DEPENDS upon your level of DNA awakening...almost all so-called "enlightened masters and teachers" have fallen in to the trap of surrendering themselves to a "god" or "oneness" that just reflects their level of DNA activation,which is mostly very low going by their teachings,they don't understand the mechanics of conciousness and hence think they have reached some kind of "enlightenment",the "enlightenment" their reliogions or false creator gods wish them to be deceived in to...it's the old "love,light and clueless" program that has sucked them in to these bubbles of "enlightenment" created by these fallen "gods"...on higher dimensions their oversouls and Avatar selves know this...when you activate higher levels of DNA you do not fall in to that trap...again,most of you won't understand that and will fall in to the same traps as those "bliss-bunnies" have where they have merged with "gods" or "sources" that are far from pure expressions of ORIGNAL GOD SOURCE,they are holding tanks where conciousness can be used as food for the energies they have surrendered to..if you are coming from a place of suffering and pain those false "enlightenment" states will look and sound even greater...if you come from a wiser level of activation you will see the traps being laid by almost all "teachers and masters" mostly unknowingly and from a state of love,light and cluelessness
wake up

Shiva777,

1) Convince me that you just didn't fall into the same trap?

I for one think you have. Your path seems massively complex to me and appears to risk tying up the resources of the limited human physical mind into an intellectual gordian knot from which escape would be close to impossible. Maybe one day my conciousness and intellect will expand to a degree that this wont seem complex any more! Then I may give it a shot.

2) The imagary you use in your "warnings" seems designed to create fear in those that don't follow your "narrow" path. I am not interested in following teachings that use the fear stick.

3) Personally speaking, I find your style extremely judgemental - its all them and us. I can live with it, and your information deserves expression, but the way you do it "colours" your posts in a way that probably takes them far from what you are trying to acheive given the audience here.


John..

[greybeard]

I would like to thank my friends for their comments.
As you know Truth does not need anything other than to be shared as it is by many here.
Those that can see it will.
As one sage said when threatened with beheading by Alexander the great. Cut my head off and we will both watch it fall to the ground.
I no longer have fear and my mind is mainly silent, that is by the Grace of the one and only God.
Of myself I do nothing.
As said the intellect will take one so far then is to be dispensed with or as Ramana said "Use a thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away."
I agree with John and many others here. When I was filled with the first fire of spiritual enthusiasm (all isms best disposed of) I ran around like a headless chicken trying to convert everyone to my point of view. Now I just share my understanding of the moment as many do here.
Many New age teachings have been modified to suit a new audience a new set of believers. Anything that teaches specialness or separation or fear is not of God, how could it be? Fear and Love cannot co-exist.
Everyone is free to choose fear or choose God.
chris
Namaste

[shiva777]

yeah,you guys don't get it and you go off on all kinds of tangents...I expected that...some people need to learn the hard way,I hope it's not too hard for you all...the intellect is a tool that has been much maligned by spiritual teachers and gurus who don't understand that they have been mislead in to bliss-bubbles that eventually pop...empowerment is NOT fear,and the more knowledge you have the more power you get,the only fear I see here is your reactions to my posts

3 people have sent me private messages thanking me for my link and input in this thread ...and they actually checked it out and registered for free...so for others out there who see through the hypnotism of the accepted spiritual teachings being defended by others in this thread...here is the link again

www.keylonticdictionary.org learn about how clever the traps have been set and how those traps have been spread by people such as Hawkins,Tolle,Ramana and co...out of ignorance and limited bliss states

[greybeard]

Sorry but Bliss has to be surrendered too.
There is no it to get you are already it. it is not different from what you are. It being Truth.
God is within and not in any teaching. All true teachers point to it being within.
Ultimate truth is, only God is.
You have been shown love Shiva777
The rest is up to you.
Love or fear? No contest for me.
Chris Namaste

[Anchor]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
www.keylonticdictionary.org learn about how clever the traps have been set and how those traps have been spread by people such as Hawkins,Tolle,Ramana and co...out of ignorance and limited bliss states

Thanks for the link.

[PathWalker]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
...I expected that...some people need to learn the hard way,I hope it's not too hard for you all...

I agree with the quote above. I would have replaced you with us. As a token of being humble.
We (me included) learn through experience then, if and when: we evolve with suffering and struggle.
Two questions for shive777. Following your truth.
1. Why do we evolve/enlighten?
2. What is truth?

Joy and happiness
may the light shine into you and through you.

[Beren]

I again state that no one can explain spiritual matters by material means... Many though try...

[greybeard]

Posted by Beren (here)
I again state that no one can explain spiritual matters by material means... Many though try...

Agree Beren
The longest distance is from the head to the heart..
It can take many life times.
Thanks again for starting the thread my friend, Im sure a lot of good is coming of it.
Now about the pint of ginger beer you promised me.
Or send the pieces of 8. Spanish Doubloons would do. Lol
Chris