Mission . . . Convert a Lifelong Meat Eater

[blufire]

I am completely open, serious and honest about this thread. Now is your time to convert a life long serious meat eater to becoming a vegetarian. I cannot do vegan or a raw food diet but if you can convince me that becoming vegetarian is possible I will convert.

Because this is my conversion we first need to address practical everyday existence and then once those are lined out we can then address the esoteric.

Vital Physical Statistics:
• I am 52 years old and female
• I am 5’8” tall and 145 to150 pounds
• I am in menopause and adjusting well
• I am over all very healthy for my age
• I take no pharmaceutical drugs and limited herbals for general osteoarthritis
• I do not smoke (anything) and a social drinker
• I do not use recreational drugs of any kind
• I require a minimum of 2500 calories a day and some days 3000 to 4000 calories
• Because of my blood type (O neg) and race/heritage (mostly Scotch-Irish) there are certain plant proteins I do digest or utilize completely


My Chosen Lifestyle:
• I am working to becoming totally self reliant and off grid
• My new farm will be self sustaining and eco-balanced
• The area I live in is very secluded and economically depressed
• I grow all my food organically or naturally including livestock
• I am a medicinal herbalist


Caveats:

This will be the biggest clincher. It is my belief we will soon not have access to grocery stores nor do I want to eat most food that comes from these places. Also it is my belief we should all be responsible for our own existence. So my diet cannot include vegetables, fruit, dairy or legumes purchased from a grocery store.

I believe in eating only seasonally and locally.

I must be able to grow all my food within my areas growing season and preserve it using canning methods, dehydration, fermentation, salt, sugar or smoke cured, soil storage and root cellars . . . no refrigeration or freezers.

My protein sources have to come from food sources in my geological location. This means it has to grow here, so no exotic nuts, legumes or fruits.

I do have chickens and so plenty of eggs. I will have either goats or a milk cow so I will be able to make cheese, yogurt and other dairy products. This will take a few months though before I’m ready for large livestock.

Okay this is a good start with my info . . . . have at it!!!

[vibrations]

IMHO, only one person is capable to convince you to change something. His name is Bluefire. Your own experience will in some point lead you to make the change. Or not. Any decision you make is absolutely correct. So, no worries.

And I think the process has already begun.

[blufire]

No vibrations you are simply wrong. I have worked this over and over in my mind. I tend to very carefully look at things from all angles.

I truly struggle with how to fill my dietary needs and lifestyle without eating meat.

Again at this point I will ONLY address practical everyday existence reasons . . . no esoteric or emotional tangents.

First help me to figure out how to eat properly without purchasing organic food which is not possible where I live now and how to eat through the winter months with no fresh vegetables or fruit.

I am a woman . . . obviously you did not read my opening post very well.

Posted by vibrations (here)
IMHO, only one person is capable to convince you to change something. His name is Bluefire. Your own experience will in some point lead you to make the change. Or not. Any decision you make is absolutely correct. So, no worries.

And I think the process has already begun.

[vibrations]

I fell in vegetarianism with no thinking, no planning, nothing. Just seeing one day that meet in my fridge was almost a month there. Then I started to search how will I be able to survive not eating meat. And when I finished shaking, I breakdown the needs and discover that many vegetable food has a lot of proteins, so comparing what is out there wrapped with plastic and sold as a food, you just gain, never loose.
My first move was to start to visit local markets, the farmers are bringing a lot of things less poisoned than industrial food, you can exchange some recipes with locals, trying to figure out how they prepare food for the winter and so on. Just start and things will flow, first slowly, then faster.

And my apologies, it's true I just quick pass over some points and lost the point.

An being a woman is for me an advantage. you are so keen to invent meals from nothing. And we, we eat pizza.

And one more thing. Let apart the callories calculation, guide yourself by your hearth. Be intuitive also about food. I was living calculator, and doesn't help. At least this is my experience. We need to relax all kind of tensions. That was my lesson.

[Corncrake]

Blufire - I am a 55 year old woman, post menopause and the same height as you who has been vegetarian for 25 years - some of that time vegan and thrive on it! However, I live in the city and am unable to grow my own food - I do have an organic food box of mostly 'local' fruit and vegetables delivered weekly. My niece who is 50 lives a few miles away and has several allotments (some land she leases from the local council) and is almost self sufficient. We both like to cook and live on seasonal produce - it can be done but I do use some imported produce during the winter months for variety otherwise one tends to exist on root vegetables or food frozen, pickled or bottled during the summer. It is difficult at first but when you get organised it can be done! Not easy at first but persevere - you will enjoy it! Good luck.

[modwiz]

Posted by Corncrake (here)
Blufire - I am a 55 year old woman, post menopause and the same height as you who has been vegetarian for 25 years - some of that time vegan and thrive on it! However, I live in the city and am unable to grow my own food - I do have an organic food box of mostly 'local' fruit and vegetables delivered weekly. My niece who is 50 lives a few miles away and has several allotments (some land she leases from the local council) and is almost self sufficient. We both like to cook and live on seasonal produce - it can be done but I do use some imported produce during the winter months for variety otherwise one tends to exist on root vegetables or food frozen, pickled or bottled during the summer. It is difficult at first but when you get organised it can be done! Not easy at first but persevere - you will enjoy it! Good luck.

I have been a vegetarian for 21 years. I am a bodyworker/massage therapist and do a lot of deep tissue demanding heavy work. The need to repair my body is ongoing. At 58 years of age my health is freakishly great. I have lived in a tent for six months at a time during good weather at an institute where I do massage 5 days a week for the past two years. They feed us 3 veggie meals a day. Despite the usual flus and other 'bugs' that seem to vex any community I have never been ill for a minute and have never missed a day of work.

Like you Corncrake, I thrive on my diet. I make most of my omnivorous co-workers look like sickly weaklings. Especially the younger ones.

Good luck Blufire, the only real hurdle you have is yourself and the conditions you will impose for the logistics of your diet. Where there is the will, there is the way.

[blufire]

Hi Corncrake, lol yes root vegetables through the winter is very much a staple. I think I know 500 ways (exaggerating) to fix potatoes, carrots, turnips, parsnips etc. I do have a substantial amount of canned and dehydrated food . . . . actually to last several years. I am capable of grinding my own wheat and corn so breads are also a staple.

Also I will have a “high tunnel” erected soon, which is basically an unheated greenhouse. I will be able to grow some greens this winter but fresh will have to wait til spring.

Again . . . I work very hard physical labor everyday. I’m not kidding when I say I consume a minimum of 2500 calories a day. This weekend we will be cutting firewood and my intake will be more like 3000 to 4000 calories.

My body type and lifestyle requires a significant amount of protein. I know about all the different vegetables and legumes and proteins. But it is difficult to achieve proper levels of certain amino acids/proteins unless consuming red meat.

I am asking for help or ideas to find a healthy well balanced diet that will fit my lifestyle.

Posted by Corncrake (here)
Blufire - I am a 55 year old woman, post menopause and the same height as you who has been vegetarian for 25 years - some of that time vegan and thrive on it! However, I live in the city and am unable to grow my own food - I do have an organic food box of mostly 'local' fruit and vegetables delivered weekly. My niece who is 50 lives a few miles away and has several allotments (some land she leases from the local council) and is almost self sufficient. We both like to cook and live on seasonal produce - it can be done but I do use some imported produce during the winter months for variety otherwise one tends to exist on root vegetables or food frozen, pickled or bottled during the summer. It is difficult at first but when you get organised it can be done! Not easy at first but persevere - you will enjoy it! Good luck.

[enfoldedblue]

I was Vego for ten years, then went back to eating meat for several years (though not a lot). Recently I have returned to not eating meat. I really think it is a personal choice, so I am not going to try to convince you of anything, but will happily share my perspective. For me I feel much lighter when I don't eat meat. I also feel somewhat less emersed in the physical world and more connected to the spirit world. The period where I returned to eating meat was a period where I needed to focus on my abilities to navigate in the physical world. Now I learnt what I needed to learn and no longer require the same degree of emersion in the densities.

One of the things I learnt was to really listen to my body...we now have an excellent relationship...working together to ensure our time here is happy and confortable, and we feel vibrant and shiny. My body is very happy with my decision to avoid meat...meat is HARD work for the body!

One of the many reasons I feel lighter not eating meat is that I always felt that if I eat meat I should be able to kill the animal myself. I think most people when they kill an animal disconnect and step out of their heart space. I believe the most honorable way to kill would be to stay fully connected in one's heart space..and FEEL everything that came with the act. I am not up to this, so there was always a part of me that was not quite comfortable eating meat because I knew I was not fully in my inetgrity.

If you do decide to go vegetarian I highly recommend the Moosewood cookbook. There are so many yummy recipes!

It's funny because there really seems to be an addictive element to meat. When you eat it, you feel like it would be hard to go without, and meals seem to revolve around it, but when you've given it up for a while you feel like you are not missing a thing, and concept of eating flesh can actually start to seem a bit gross.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be the perfect thing for you

LOVE ALLways, c

[WhiteFeather]

Start Here My Friend, this has worked for me as well as my son in college! I have Been a vegetarian for two years now, and i believe it has helped me in my spiritual journey towards Oneness. Good Luck Blufire.

Disturbing Content, User Discretion Is Advised Here!

http://www.meatvideo.com

[blufire]

A Thought to Ponder:

When the global economical collapse takes a final death grip and complete chaos ensues or some natural disaster strikes that shuts off your food source what will you do if you can’t go to the grocery store and buy fresh vegetables and fruit? I have read the information here on PA about the supplements, protein supplement, essential fatty acids, vitamins (B6 B12) etc that many times vegs need to supplement their diet with. What if you can no longer buy these?

I’m not being facetious . . . these are the things I think about. Is a vegetarian diet truly self sustaining where I live or for anybody?

If we truly want to start changing the world and how we have destroyed it where are we going to start? Right now we rely on fossil fuels to ship our food and supplements from all over the world.

Please help me to understand how to be a vegetarian by eating purely local and seasonally without supplementing or purchasing food shipped in from all over the world or even across the nation.

I live now deep in the Appalachian Mountains. The nearest true grocery store is an hour away and no organic food stores within two hours.

Even using refrigeration fresh fruits and vegetables are gone in a matter of weeks. So what do I eat through the winter months that will keep me healthy and well balanced.

Modwiz you said “the only real hurdle you have is yourself and the conditions you will impose for the logistics of your diet. Where there is the will, there is the way.”

The conditions I am imposing on myself are conditions everyone in reality is living. It is an illusion if you are buying your food from a grocery store and think this is self sustaining. Food is the ultimate weapon and “they” will use it and are.

[blufire]

Thank you very much enfoldedblue for your input.

One question . . . where do you get your food? Grocery store?

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
I was Vego for ten years, then went back to eating meat for several years (though not a lot). Recently I have returned to not eating meat. I really think it is a personal choice, so I am not going to try to convince you of anything, but will happily share my perspective. For me I feel much lighter when I don't eat meat. I also feel somewhat less emersed in the physical world and more connected to the spirit world. The period where I returned to eating meat was a period where I needed to focus on my abilities to navigate in the physical world. Now I learnt what I needed to learn and no longer require the same degree of emersion in the densities.

One of the things I learnt was to really listen to my body...we now have an excellent relationship...working together to ensure our time here is happy and confortable, and we feel vibrant and shiny. My body is very happy with my decision to avoid meat...meat is HARD work for the body!

One of the many reasons I feel lighter not eating meat is that I always felt that if I eat meat I should be able to kill the animal myself. I think most people when they kill an animal disconnect and step out of their heart space. I believe the most honorable way to kill would be to stay fully connected in one's heart space..and FEEL everything that came with the act. I am not up to this, so there was always a part of me that was not quite comfortable eating meat because I knew I was not fully in my inetgrity.

If you do decide to go vegetarian I highly recommend the Moosewood cookbook. There are so many yummy recipes!

It's funny because there really seems to be an addictive element to meat. When you eat it, you feel like it would be hard to go without, and meals seem to revolve around it, but when you've given it up for a while you feel like you are not missing a thing, and concept of eating flesh can actually start to seem a bit gross.

Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be the perfect thing for you

LOVE ALLways, c

[blufire]

Thank you Whitefeather,

I’m completely aware of the brutality of how animals are treated, which is why I raise my own humanely.

I’m trying to stay away from the emotional part of being a meat eater because we always get stuck with that highly charged debate.

I first would like to truly understand how a vegetarian diet is possible. What if I lived in Alaska or the deserts of Africa or the US where growing fresh vegetables or fruit with sustainable methods is not possible?

It is not even possible where I live now . . . through the winter months.

I can’t wrap my mind around the logic. I keep thinking back (not to long ago) the diets of people before grocery stores and shipping. I don’t think it was possible to be vegetarian unless you lived in tropical regions.

Posted by WhiteFeather (here)
Start Here My Friend, this has worked for me as well as my son in college! I have Been a vegetarian for two years now, and i believe it has helped me in my spiritual journey towards Oneness. Good Luck Blufire.

Disturbing Content, User Discretion Is Advised Here!

http://www.meatvideo.com

[modwiz]

Posted by blufire (here)
A Thought to Ponder:

When the global economical collapse takes a final death grip and complete chaos ensues or some natural disaster strikes that shuts off your food source what will you do if you can’t go to the grocery store and buy fresh vegetables and fruit? I have read the information here on PA about the supplements, protein supplement, essential fatty acids, vitamins (B6 B12) etc that many times vegs need to supplement their diet with. What if you can no longer buy these?

I’m not being facetious . . . these are the things I think about. Is a vegetarian diet truly self sustaining where I live or for anybody?

If we truly want to start changing the world and how we have destroyed it where are we going to start? Right now we rely on fossil fuels to ship our food and supplements from all over the world.

Please help me to understand how to be a vegetarian by eating purely local and seasonally without supplementing or purchasing food shipped in from all over the world or even across the nation.

I live now deep in the Appalachian Mountains. The nearest true grocery store is an hour away and no organic food stores within two hours.

Even using refrigeration fresh fruits and vegetables are gone in a matter of weeks. So what do I eat through the winter months that will keep me healthy and well balanced.

Modwiz you said “the only real hurdle you have is yourself and the conditions you will impose for the logistics of your diet. Where there is the will, there is the way.”

The conditions I am imposing on myself are conditions everyone in reality is living. It is an illusion if you are buying your food from a grocery store and think this is self sustaining. Food is the ultimate weapon and “they” will use it and are.

I am living in the here and now, where the body I feed is living. What may come I will deal with then. At this point in time I have a store that takes me about a half hour to drive to. I stock up on things and spend much of my Winter eating beans and a grain. I have a nice green mix called nano greens that I use for folates and things that I got from my 70 year old vegan M.D. who I am really just friends with because I have no use for her services though she has used my bodywork services.

The illusion of sustaining myself from a store is currently working, as it is for most people in this country. I stand by my statement.

I will now bow out of this thread.

[enfoldedblue]

You could learn to grow spirulina, which has many vitamins (including B12), minerals, and protein.
Here's a link:
http://www.algaeindustrymagazine.com...ulina-at-home/

there are many others, including 'how to' youtube videos.

[Sierra]

Bluefire,

It sounds as if you are trying to figure out how to sustain yourself on a local vegetarian diet with high protein/caloric needs? (And the picture I am getting from the responses is that being vegan or vegetarian is a global economy luxury requiring imported goods, unless one is fortunate to live in a particularly blessed region ...).

When I look at the historical picture of humans in cold areas with real winter seasons, really existing in a local economy, they did not thrive so well without meat, during the winter months.

Maybe if this thread was in the health section, there would be some experts to hop on with new knowledge to make it possible to perform this difficult feat you ask of yourself ...

Sierra

[enfoldedblue]

ooops...I thought I clicked on reply with quote....oh well, just imagine the quote from blufire post #11 is here

Well my partner and I are trying to elliminate the grocery store as much as possible. We are in the process of establishing our gardens...which is a bit of a challenge because the wild turkeys love to dig everything up...grrr. My partner is buying netting to keep the pesky things out as we speak. We go to the local markets every week and buy as much as we can from people who grow in our area...our favorite stall is an organic stall that sells goods grown on a local farm that is set up as a project to help troubled youth get in touch with nature and learn important agricultural skills. We are also very involved in our local community and working with others to establish networks and community ventures. For example cow-share (where several families purchase a cow together and share in the care and milking as well as the milk).

We have not completely illiminated the grocery store yet, but we are heading in that direction.

[Lettherebelight]

Hi Blufire. Why not try an easier option? Eggs!
Keep chickens, have all the eggs you want, and when it gets really cold you could use them for meat if you need to.
You could also have fish?(if there's any around)...I know cold climates like Scandinavia etc, they are big on dried fish.
In Scotland, they have always eaten a lot of oats, prepared savoury as well as sweet, and added to many dishes. They give slow release carbohydrate energy- good for colder climates.
I hope you stay nice and warm this winter!
Sorry this is not a totally vegetarian suggestion, just some ideas.
I admire what you are doing, I wish you every success!

[Lettherebelight]

Sorry, Blufire, just saw in you OP you already have chickens.
Do you grow sprouts? I heard this is a good way of sustaining optimum health.
I think your milk cows are a good idea, they used to live below people's houses (like Swiss chalets) to keep the houses warmer in winter. (you probably knew that already...)

[blufire]

Thank You Sierra, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you feel it needs to be moved to the health section then . . . . move away. I don’t think it really matters though do you?

As far as this being a difficult feat for only me is partially complete. If I can’t with all my skills as a organic farmer, homesteader and herbalist become a vegetarian and remain healthy then I’m not sure if it is a viable option for the general population as a whole.

This has truly has been a struggle for me. It (being vegetarian) doesn’t seem logical for the very reasons you stated in your post.

It seems to me . . . . and hopefully I can be proved wrong . . . that if you take away the highly emotional, volatile and polarizing nature of eating meat the discussion stops.

Posted by Sierra (here)
Bluefire,

It sounds as if you are trying to figure out how to sustain yourself on a local vegetarian diet with high protein/caloric needs? (And the picture I am getting from the responses is that being vegan or vegetarian is a global economy luxury requiring imported goods, unless one is fortunate to live in a particularly blessed region ...).

When I look at the historical picture of humans in cold areas with real winter seasons, really existing in a local economy, they did not thrive so well without meat, during the winter months.

Maybe if this thread was in the health section, there would be some experts to hop on with new knowledge to make it possible to perform this difficult feat you ask of yourself ...

Sierra

[blufire]

I love to hear things like this!!! Please don’t give up!!

A hint about the turkeys and a few other critters. Have your partner . . . if he is a guy . . . pee all around your garden area essentially marking your territory. Well you could collect your urine too and spread it around . . . easier for guys though. I have great luck with this. Or if that is bit too gross you can buy cd’s of recordings of fox and coyote calls and play it when the turkeys are most active. Keeps the little suckers scared away.

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
ooops...I thought I clicked on reply with quote....oh well, just imagine the quote from blufire post #11 is here

Well my partner and I are trying to elliminate the grocery store as much as possible. We are in the process of establishing our gardens...which is a bit of a challenge because the wild turkeys love to dig everything up...grrr. My partner is buying netting to keep the pesky things out as we speak. We go to the local markets every week and buy as much as we can from people who grow in our area...our favorite stall is an organic stall that sells goods grown on a local farm that is set up as a project to help troubled youth get in touch with nature and learn important agricultural skills. We are also very involved in our local community and working with others to establish networks and community ventures. For example cow-share (where several families purchase a cow together and share in the care and milking as well as the milk).

We have not completely illiminated the grocery store yet, but we are heading in that direction.