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Thread: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    And today James Murdoch has been re-elected as BSkyB chairman even tho a fifth of shareholders voted against his re-appointment - apparently!

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Mad Hatter (here)
    I suppose what I'd like to see is suggestions for re-formatting societal structures in such a manner where people who suffer such a condition are neither advantaged or dis-advanteged by said reformatting.

    What say you Avalon...??
    Hi Mad Hatter
    The condition is a disadvantage to behaving correctly in positions of power. We all have conditions that are either an advantage or not. It dictates to a certain degree what we can do in this world. We are all different phisically and mentally due to our background, diet, health, body we were born with etc. By banning them from certain jobs we are using common sense not discrimination. Again I use the blind driver analogy posted above. We're not being mean, just acting in the best interests of everyone.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Mad Hatter (here)
    Mad Hatter dons his contrarian cap...

    What most seem to be agreeing with here is some form of testing to identify and then subsequently deal with a condition the OP identified as Psycopathy. I am not denying the unfortunate influence those suffering such a condition may / are having in various spheres of influence. I do however find certain aspects of the discussion disturbing for what seems to me to be a lack of a long term view.

    By lack of long term view I mean that most of the solutions proposed would simply lead to the sort of world portrayed in the film Gattaca and I for one have no interest in contributing anything toward leaving my children a world like that. It is also disheartening to observe the ever pervasive mob rule mentality creeping in as well. So the 99% are going to go and beat the crap out of the 1%. How original... and where, pray tell, in history has that ever proved to be a solution?

    I agree that the core problem as identified needs to be addressed but solutions along the lines of changing the paradigm to accomodate all present seem to me to be a bit thin on the ground.

    I suppose what I'd like to see is suggestions for re-formatting societal structures in such a manner where people who suffer such a condition are neither advantaged or dis-advanteged by said reformatting.

    What say you Avalon...??
    If you offer a leaf of conciliation to that which tears your arm off every time, or kills you, then you must cease to offer a bargain.

    Once you have offered your final say on their intractability, then you can offer a bargain.

    As Patrick Swazye said in the film Roadhouse, "Be nice....until it's time to not be nice."

    I'm not saying that I'm doing such a thing or spearheading such a thing.

    However, the writing is on the wall.

    I have no problem adding to the list of information regarding potential avenues for current and future blocking of their path. New problems Will arise, that is their nature, But this one has to be closed.

    Sociopaths or psychopaths... take, and take, and take, and take, until some component of the system which only desires balance..finally takes a round out of them. If they are lucky, they survive. In the same way a body eliminates a tapeworm, they are left twisting in the wind. The body must finally eliminate, or die.

    I've seen this happen in the real world, regarding actual (childhood) bullies...more than once. One ended up in the hospital for two weeks.

    In my understanding...The idea and time for asking for balance, is over.

    The 'bullies' of humankind failed to understand that the lack of external cause/effect of and in their behaviors WAS the doorway to understanding and balance -itself. The inaction of people WAS the gift of the attempt to seek balance.
    Last edited by Carmody; 29th November 2011 at 18:41.
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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    One way to stop them is by ensuring they don't get to push any legislation through that gives them even more power.

    Another way is to keep informing the public of the scandalous behavior that goes on at the top...via blogs, as MSM no longer seems to be doing a good job.
    Then bring the corrupt ones to trial and lock them up. As the mid level people get caught the higher ups go deeper into hiding, but stories about their antics will start leaking out, more and more, and I see that process happening all around.
    And when someone who really knows where they hide out can share specific info about their whereabouts on a given day then one can always do a joint psychic exercise. Spray their hide-out with virtual Baygon.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    I heard someone - it might have been John Lash (who sees the problem in terms of archons) - someone of that calibre anyway, who rather shocked me by saying straight out that these people need to be physically taken out.

    This is how serious things have become.

    I also think of Ben Fulford's position with regard to his friends the assassins, who so far have been made to show restraint but must really be straining at the leash by now.

    I am shocked because this is so far from my natural inclination, but however one views the situation, it has somehow got to stop.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    I heard someone - it might have been John Lash (who sees the problem in terms of archons) - someone of that calibre anyway, who rather shocked me by saying straight out that these people need to be physically taken out.

    This is how serious things have become.

    I also think of Ben Fulford's position with regard to his friends the assassins, who so far have been made to show restraint but must really be straining at the leash by now.

    I am shocked because this is so far from my natural inclination, but however one views the situation, it has somehow got to stop.
    This has come to to self preservation. It is a serious game. Decent people want no part of this game, but it has been thrust upon them. Just like people do not want mosquitoes biting them or ticks, tapeworms or leeches latching on for a free meal at their expense. When you discover any of these things feeding on you do you appeal to them? You may say, but I am talking about human beings. I say, prove it.

    I am against clinical testing. Field tests are more applicable and more fair. Like 9eagle9 stated above the psychopath fired the ones that could see her. This is a glitch that needs attending to. Absolute power. A piece of this set up derives from laziness on the part of the 'foundation' of any power structure.

    I am in the middle of a work day and cannot elaborate on this idea more at the moment, but my last statement can be summed up by the saying, 'the price of liberty/freedom, is eternal vigilance'.

    John Lash speaks my truth.

    More later.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    There are least two where I work - they are everywhere. The best piece of advice I read is to STEER WELL CLEAR, although by the time you recognise them it's usually too late. i haven't read this particular book although I can recommend Puzzling People the labrynth of the psychopath by Thomas Sheridan:


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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Actually we do better. In our workplace...we squeeze them out. not allowed. so..If one them can ruin an entire workplace ...we decided long ago -no can do. me or you kinda thing. keep them...and all of us get damaged. So it's the sociopath, the psychopath.... that gets squeezed out.

    I taught my business partner that with his group of sometimes as high as 40 employees..that he is responsible for the stability of 40 families, besides his own and whomever has supported him on that particular side.

    Responsibility dictates that the problem must be recognized and eliminated from the workgroup. No matter anyone's feelings on fairness, there is a risk limit that cannot and must not be exceeded, a line that cannot be crossed.
    Last edited by Carmody; 29th November 2011 at 20:42.
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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Carmody wrote.
    Quote As Patrick Swazye said in the film Roadhouse, "Be nice....until it's time to not be nice."
    I think we are appoaching that time fast.

    araucaria wrote:
    Quote I heard someone - it might have been John Lash (who sees the problem in terms of archons) - someone of that calibre anyway, who rather shocked me by saying straight out that these people need to be physically taken out.

    This is how serious things have become.

    I have had a lot of ticks sucking my blood the last years, twice I have become really ill

    from it. I have realized that the ticks dont respond to wot I say to them. They cant, so

    Ive have been forced to take action. Soon its gonna be open season on predators, as

    thats the only way to get through to those megalomaniac psychopaths.


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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Thank you Carmody. Of course the problem is that the people we want out are in numbers at the top.

    I am thinking of the method to make champagne. When there are dregs in the bottom of the bottle you turn it upside down so that they gather in the neck. Then you freeze the neck, open the bottle and out pop the dregs like a cork.

    Sounds like the job is half done.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    Actually we do better. In our workplace...we squeeze them out. not allowed. so..If one them can ruin an entire workplace ...we decided long ago -no can do. me or you kinda thing. keep them...and all of us get damaged. So it's the sociopath, the psychopath.... that gets squeezed out.

    I taught my business partner that with his group of sometimes as high as 40 employees..that he is responsible for the stability of 40 families, besides his own and whomever has supported him on that particular side.

    Responsibility dictates that the problem must be recognized and eliminated from the workgroup. No matter anyone's feelings on fairness, there is a risk limit that cannot and must not be exceeded, a line that cannot be crossed.
    That's wonderful Carmody . . . . but where I work unfortunately it's every man for himself !

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    I am not sure some of you realize that when you fight with pigs you lose and come up very muddy. These people cannot be defeated by open aggression, it takes tact, and a little, ok a lot of karmic magick which is not that easy to do. I once ran an energetic tick out of town who was putting curses on people then charging them thousands when they came to her for help. It took me over a month to do the working, but when I launched it, she was gone within 48 hours, which means business shut and house vacant and family gone. She has never come back. I always put the caveat though in a working that if I am wrong to not let it prosper and come to no effect. I was very much directed to do that particular working.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    I am not sure some of you realize that when you fight with pigs you lose and come up very muddy. These people cannot be defeated by open aggression, it takes tact, and a little, ok a lot of karmic magick which is not that easy to do. I once ran an energetic tick out of town who was putting curses on people then charging them thousands when they came to her for help. It took me over a month to do the working, but when I launched it, she was gone within 48 hours, which means business shut and house vacant and family gone. She has never come back. I always put the caveat though in a working that if I am wrong to not let it prosper and come to no effect. I was very much directed to do that particular working.
    I want you as my friend!

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    In my book, World Peace Manifesto, I write about the transition taking place in the advent of the rise of the Paladin. These are the Warriors amongst us awakened, who have the wherewithall to take decisive and sometimes final or fatal action. Wade Frazier calls them the army of grandmothers. But they will not be just grandmothers. They will be any of the meek in disposition and of a peace-loving nature who find themselves in a position to take action for the good of all. Often it will be of the spur of the moment type action, with no premeditation, just a sudden sure knowing that vthis action is needed, here and now.

    Here is how I describe the Paladin:
    The warrior of light has impeccable virtue and unassailable honor. Driven by a sense of duty so axiomatic, so firm in dedication to do good, to uphold truth at all times, to come from the highest mores, to champion the cause, to persevere at all costs, and to win the good fight that it is fundamental to the core of the paladin’s being.
    There are many silent paladins that will heed when called.
    The paladin’s power lies primarily in the light of the simple truth. The secret of its tremendous potency is the fact it cannot be used either for defense or attack. However, it can shine the light of truth wherever it may unimpeded and intact and unimpeachable. The truth dispels the lie just as light unveils the darkness. The truth has the power to transform and transcend all illusion. The truth can heal the ravaging belief in time. The truth is palliative in all respects. The truth is love and joy.
    The truth is not enforced nor is it enforceable. It is incapable of any sort of force at all. The truth is gentle and kind and understanding. The truth welcomes and is completely non-judgmental. The truth accepts all for what it is, obviously, literally and by definition. The truth is holographic. The truth respects all life.
    A paladin embodies these characteristics instinctively. They are the words to live by and to die defending if necessary. They are the paladin’s marching orders and code of conduct manual.
    The aspects of truth are multi-faceted. It is the paladin who clearly shines with the pure light of a single face. Such precise focus illuminates the path to truth with a blinding ferocity. The paladin cannot be deterred.
    Herein lies the exception to the rule, as paradoxical as it may seem. For the paladin is merely another simple soul and is human nonetheless. The light of truth can be momentarily eclipsed by unanticipated factors, however improbable. The paladin can be dangerous if needs be or even unintentionally.
    Truth and its fair, equitable, unbiased and loving administration is perfectly transferable to all situations and applications. The truth as wielded by the paladin is innocent of motive and unmindful of convention. It is this innocence that ensures peaceful solutions based upon simple truth and nothing more - but nothing less, as well. The truth obliterates any and all attempts at subterfuge because it is the truth.

    This is how I envision the change finally coming about.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    In my book, World Peace Manifesto, I write about the transition taking place in the advent of the rise of the Paladin. These are the Warriors amongst us awakened, who have the wherewithall to take decisive and sometimes final or fatal action. Wade Frazier calls them the army of grandmothers. But they will not be just grandmothers. They will be any of the meek in disposition and of a peace-loving nature who find themselves in a position to take action for the good of all. Often it will be of the spur of the moment type action, with no premeditation, just a sudden sure knowing that vthis action is needed, here and now.

    Here is how I describe the Paladin:
    The warrior of light has impeccable virtue and unassailable honor. Driven by a sense of duty so axiomatic, so firm in dedication to do good, to uphold truth at all times, to come from the highest mores, to champion the cause, to persevere at all costs, and to win the good fight that it is fundamental to the core of the paladin’s being.
    There are many silent paladins that will heed when called.
    The paladin’s power lies primarily in the light of the simple truth. The secret of its tremendous potency is the fact it cannot be used either for defense or attack. However, it can shine the light of truth wherever it may unimpeded and intact and unimpeachable. The truth dispels the lie just as light unveils the darkness. The truth has the power to transform and transcend all illusion. The truth can heal the ravaging belief in time. The truth is palliative in all respects. The truth is love and joy.
    The truth is not enforced nor is it enforceable. It is incapable of any sort of force at all. The truth is gentle and kind and understanding. The truth welcomes and is completely non-judgmental. The truth accepts all for what it is, obviously, literally and by definition. The truth is holographic. The truth respects all life.
    A paladin embodies these characteristics instinctively. They are the words to live by and to die defending if necessary. They are the paladin’s marching orders and code of conduct manual.
    The aspects of truth are multi-faceted. It is the paladin who clearly shines with the pure light of a single face. Such precise focus illuminates the path to truth with a blinding ferocity. The paladin cannot be deterred.
    Herein lies the exception to the rule, as paradoxical as it may seem. For the paladin is merely another simple soul and is human nonetheless. The light of truth can be momentarily eclipsed by unanticipated factors, however improbable. The paladin can be dangerous if needs be or even unintentionally.
    Truth and its fair, equitable, unbiased and loving administration is perfectly transferable to all situations and applications. The truth as wielded by the paladin is innocent of motive and unmindful of convention. It is this innocence that ensures peaceful solutions based upon simple truth and nothing more - but nothing less, as well. The truth obliterates any and all attempts at subterfuge because it is the truth.

    This is how I envision the change finally coming about.
    Your description of the Paladin reminds me a a healthy immune system. Killer t-cells are just another blood component, an immuno-competent one, that is just another citizen of the circulatory system until a threat develops. Then the threat is dealt with/eliminated and all returns to normal. The body and its defense system demonstrates healthy self preservation that is in no way militant or predatory. An excellent model for societal health, IMO.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    Actually we do better. In our workplace...we squeeze them out. not allowed. so..If one them can ruin an entire workplace ...we decided long ago -no can do. me or you kinda thing. keep them...and all of us get damaged. So it's the sociopath, the psychopath.... that gets squeezed out.

    I taught my business partner that with his group of sometimes as high as 40 employees..that he is responsible for the stability of 40 families, besides his own and whomever has supported him on that particular side.

    Responsibility dictates that the problem must be recognized and eliminated from the workgroup. No matter anyone's feelings on fairness, there is a risk limit that cannot and must not be exceeded, a line that cannot be crossed.
    Where do we apply???

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    It always starts at the grass roots level
    Having loaned Mad Hatter's contrarian cap, I too would like to offer an alternative point of view.

    To suggest that we can weed these individuals out by implementing a "grass roots level" style of campaign aimed at their removal, or that testing for a genetic marker will successfully identity these individuals in the first place, fails somewhat IMO, to fully address the phenomena of psychopathic behaviour.

    Whilst the suggestion that psychopathy may be a genetic disorder is new to me (having previously understood it to be a birth defect affecting the orbital frontal cortex), one must also bear in mind that this is a behaviourial tendency that can also be either learned, or in the right environment, adopted, by any one of us, as what we are dealing with here is life at the bottom of Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy. Here, our most basic needs in life are our only priority; air, food, water, shelter, sleep and sex according to the diagram below (not entirely accurate in my opinion, but close enough). This is where we all start in life, in our infancy, and no matter how high we may rise toward the self actualisation at the pyramid's capstone, life can easily send us tumbling back down to the foundation stone. So, I wish to posit that this is not a case of "us and them", where testing for a perticular genetic marker will actually make a skerrick of difference. It is my opinion that the majority of those exhibiting psychopathic tendencies actually fall into the latter category, where it is an adopted modus operandi. Psychopathic tendencies can also be instilled in a child in even an affluent home environment, where although basic physiological needs may be met, a dysfunctional family structure may fail to meet the most basic psychological needs of the child; this in turn can leave the child trapped in a survival mode, where psychopathic tendencies tends to flourish.

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    Mazlow's Hierarchy of Robot (Psychopath) Needs

    Further, the notion that these people can be flushed out from the bottom up, I consider fundamentaly flawed; akin to ill-informed reference to "the powers that were". It must be remembered that this sub (less than fully actualised) human behaviour extends to the highest levels within the powers that rule this planet. It is no different to the ruthless corporate executive that rises to a position of power within any organisation. For example, consider a successful business, embracing sound moral principle as a key component of it's functioning; enter the workplace psychopath, at any level. This person will often "kiss up, and kick down" until they are elevated to a position where they are able to influence decisions in regards to staff placement. They will then be hell bent on ensuring that only those that are willing to submit to and support them will occupy positions which are subordinate to their own; this in effect creates the support structure on which they stand. They will continue to impress their superiors, rising through the ranks, often at a rapid rate, until they are finally able to oust the CEO. By this time, the board of management will likely be comprised of like minded individuals, some of whom no doubt would have adopted this behaviour in an effort to sustain their employment. Meanwhile, the board will always be able to justify their behavior, as they were only "acting in the best interest of shareholders". Once you have a sufficient number of psychopathics within an organisation, a grass roots campaign will likely fail, as any attempt to flush out a dysfunctional individual from amongst the lower ranks, will likely be met by resistance from management, as they may well think highly of this person; remember they do "kiss up". Consider too, that even if a grass roots campaign were to kick off as a result of growing public recognition of the problem, and even if that campaign were to eventually reach those that actually hold positions within "the powers that be", You will not topple them, as they are at the top. Any attempt to do so would likely elecit a response akin to that of a cornered animal, and we would all likely end up paying the ultimate price for that. This would be no different to a "sore loser", who, realising that the game is almost up, and they just lost their blue chip real estate, slams the Monopoly board shut and storms off. If they're not going to win, then nobody gets to play.

    In my experience, many common or garden psychopaths are simply cowards, who once the support structure (supportive peers and subordinates) is removed, will oftentimes quickly vanish from sight. One method I have used in removing this supportive structure is public humiliation. I recently toppled a member of lower management in a Fortune 500 company using the "CC" function when emailing; gather enough evidence to convict the individual, distribute it to enough people of influence, and he was back in his box in a flash, where he has stayed for three months now. The most efficient method I know of is to bring a weight crashing down on their heads from their superiors. To a psychopath, this is a akin to hell itself, but requires that a move is made against them prior to their having been elevated too high up the ladder.

    I would also like to bring your attention the notion that whether we are talking about some remorseless drunk driver (chemically induced psychopathy) who just killed someone in a traffic accident, or a ruthless corpless executive, who just managed to strip a number of pensioners of their life savings, we are dealing with a similar pattern of behaviour;that being an inability to empathise with one's victims. Same or similar behaviour on a different scale. In the case of the drunk, would we not make an attempt to rehabilitate them? This can be achieved by meeting with the family of the deceased; I have seen this work. If I am correct, then instead of adopting a punitive, or worse, approach to the rehabilitation of grand scale psychopaths, perhaps we should consider a similar approach to that used for the drunk driver. If that sounds too hard, then I say too bad. What are supposed to do? Chemical alteration of brain function, incarceration? It does not matter whether they are victims of a genetic abnormality, a birth defect affecting the frontal cortex or dysfunction encountered with the family home or workplace; in all cases, they are victims; probably some of the saddest victims on the face of the planet, as along with their inablilty to empathise, comes an inability to experience joy.

    Whilst I have a hatred for the outcome of psychopathic behaviour, and attempt to educate those in the workplace as to the phenomenas existence, I feel no hatred toward the initial victims themselves, the psychopaths. For them, I have only an overwhelming sense of sorrow.

    Here is the abstact of an interview with Adrian Raine from the Department of Criminology at the University of Pennsylvania, originally broadcast on the ABC Radio's "The Science Show", on the 15th of October, 2011.

    A region of the brain known as the orbital frontal cortex regulates emotion. But there's a gender difference with men having a smaller volume. This helps explain why men commit more crime than women. The volume of the amygdala is important for the generation of emotions. White collar criminals have an advantage due to their brain volumes and wiring. Psychopaths show a reduction in the functioning of the amygdala. They have reduced emotional reaction. So why do we punish psychopaths harshly? They didn't ask to have smaller amygdalas and reduced emotional response to their actions. Adrian Raine asks if psychopaths lack fear, how useful is punishment?

    It has traditionally been thought that psychopaths are all bad. Kevin Dutton says psychopaths can be fearless, ruthless, amoral and devious while still being charming, charismatic and persuasive. He says psychopaths are very good at persuasion due to a trait known as cold empathy. Our personalities are a mixture of elements with some turned up, and others turned down. There are jobs where high scores on the psychopathic spectrum can be advantageous, such as some areas of intricate, high risk surgery.


    If you would like to read the entire transcript, here is the address:


    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the-psychopath-in-us-all/3591116

    Cheers,

    Tony.

    Last edited by Heyoka_11; 30th November 2011 at 20:24.

  31. Link to Post #78
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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Sorry Tony.

    No disempowerment today.


    The more people that are aware of tactics and potentials, the merrier.

    I'm reminded of the second Predator film.

    The predator was being chased by the police and he ran through an apartment building, by punching through walls. Some family was watching TV and had their lives torn apart and were forced to understand the reality of the Predators, via this act of the predator running through their living room walls.

    Thus those people, from then on, knew the truth, even though the people across the hall could never be convinced about anything other than a big noise.

    It's won.... one person at a time. until it reaches a critical mass.

    And in that, the ground level is critical.

    I'm not sure you understand the question at hand.

    the question and answer is that the human edifice cannot tolerate this level of intrusion by the proffered parasite any more.

    we are here (on earth) to engage and solve problems.

    Turning their atmosphere back on them is a perfect karmic trick. The difference between good and evil is the empathic imperative behind the act and the way it is handled.

    i never said that I failed to feel sorrow for that particular genetic imperative, but that I can save it for later.


    And I will NOT breach an imperative to stop it by getting into complex considerations that serve no purpose at this point, other than to break up a consolidation of effort and directive.. and disempower.

    basically, hold your position, remember your place in the conversation, everyone lean in this direction for a bit... then go back to the discussion of the intricacies and bits if -you desire.

    Before that discussion and breakdown comes, in this linear time, the act must take place.

    And the act, is dissemination of the potential for a workable answer -to the dilemma at hand.

    I'm flatly not interested in conversations of disempowerment.

    The discussion at hand, is.... if we are really going to have 7 billion players of the game on this orb -or not. Anything else is just window dressing.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Quote Posted by Heyoka_11 (here)
    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    It always starts at the grass roots level
    Having loaned Mad Hatter's contrarian cap, I too would like to offer an alternative point of view.

    To suggest that we can weed these individuals out by implementing a "grass roots level" style of campaign aimed at their removal, or that testing for a genetic marker will successfully identity these individuals in the first place, fails somewhat IMO, to fully address the phenomena of psychopathic behaviour.

    Whilst the suggestion that psychopathy may be a genetic disorder is new to me (having previously understood it to be a birth defect affecting the orbital frontal cortex), one must also bear in mind that this is a behaviourial tendency that can also be either learned, or in the right environment, adopted, by any one of us, as what we are dealing with here is life at the bottom of Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy. Here, our most basic needs in life are our only priority; air, food, water, shelter, sleep and sex according to the diagram below (not entirely accurate in my opinion, but close enough). This is where we all start in life, in our infancy, and no matter how high we may rise toward the self actualisation at the pyramid's capstone, life can easily send us tumbling back down to the foundation stone. So, I wish to posit that this is not a case of "us and them", where testing for a perticular genetic marker will actually make a skerrick of difference. It is my opinion that the majority of those exhibiting psychopathic tendencies actually fall into the latter category, where it is an adopted modus operandi. Psychopathic tendencies can also be instilled in a child in even an affluent home environment, where although basic physiological needs may be met, a dysfunctional family structure may fail to meet the most basic psychological needs of the child; this in turn can leave the child trapped in a survival mode, where psychopathic tendencies tends to flourish.

    Attachment 11643

    Mazlow's Pyramid of Hierarchy

    Attachment 11644

    Mazlow's Hierarchy of Robot (Psychopath) Needs

    Further, the notion that these people can be flushed out from the bottom up, I consider fundamentaly flawed; akin to ill-informed reference to "the powers that were". It must be remembered that this sub (less than fully actualised) human behaviour extends to the highest levels within the powers that rule this planet. It is no different to the ruthless corporate executive that rises to a position of power within any organisation. For example, consider a successful business, embracing sound moral principle as a key component of it's functioning; enter the workplace psychopath, at any level. This person will often "kiss up, and kick down" until they are elevated to a position where they are able to influence decisions in regards to staff placement. They will then be hell bent on ensuring that only those that are willing to submit to and support them will occupy positions which are subordinate to their own; this in effect creates the support structure on which they stand. They will continue to impress their superiors, rising through the ranks, often at a rapid rate, until they are finally able to oust the CEO. By this time, the board of management will likely be comprised of like minded individuals, some of whom no doubt would have adopted this behaviour in an effort to sustain their employment. Meanwhile, the board will always be able to justify their behavior, as they were only "acting in the best interest of shareholders". Once you have a sufficient number of psychopathics within an organisation, a grass roots campaign will likely fail, as any attempt to flush out a dysfunctional individual from amongst the lower ranks, will likely be met by resistance from management, as they may well think highly of this person; remember they do "kiss up". Consider too, that even if a grass roots campaign were to kick off as a result of growing public recognition of the problem, and even if that campaign were to eventually reach those that actually hold positions within "the powers that be", You will not topple them, as they are at the top. Any attempt to do so would likely elecit a response akin to that of a cornered animal, and we would all likely end up paying the ultimate price for that. This would be no different to a "sore loser", who, realising that the game is almost up, and they just lost their blue chip real estate, slams the Monopoly board shut and storms off. If they're not going to win, then nobody gets to play.

    In my experience, many common or garden psychopaths are simply cowards, who once the support structure (supportive peers and subordinates) is removed, will oftentimes quickly vanish from sight. One method I have used in removing this supportive structure is public humiliation. I recently toppled a member of lower management in a Fortune 500 company using the "CC" function when emailing; gather enough evidence to convict the individual, distribute it to enough people of influence, and he was back in his box in a flash, where he has stayed for three months now. The most efficient method I know of is to bring a weight crashing down on their heads from their superiors. To a psychopath, this is a akin to hell itself, but requires that a move is made against them prior to their having been elevated too high up the ladder.

    I would also like to bring your attention the notion that whether we are talking about some remorseless drunk driver (chemically induced psychopathy) who just killed someone in a traffic accident, or a ruthless corpless executive, who just managed to strip a number of pensioners of their life savings, we are dealing with a similar pattern of behaviour;that being an inability to empathise with one's victims. Same or similar behaviour on a different scale. In the case of the drunk, would we not make an attempt to rehabilitate them? This can be achieved by meeting with the family of the deceased; I have seen this work. If I am correct, then instead of adopting a punitive, or worse, approach to the rehabilitation of grand scale psychopaths, perhaps we should consider a similar approach to that used for the drunk driver. If that sounds too hard, then I say too bad. What are supposed to do? Chemical alteration of brain function, incarceration? It does not matter whether they are victims of a genetic abnormality, a birth defect affecting the frontal cortex or dysfunction encountered with the family home or workplace; in all cases, they are victims; probably some of the saddest victims on the face of the planet, as along with their inablilty to empathise, comes an inability to experience joy.

    Whilst I have a hatred for the outcome of psychopathic behaviour, and attempt to educate those in the workplace as to the phenomenas existence, I feel no hated toward the initial victims themselves, the psychopaths. For them, I have only an overwhelming sense of sorrow.

    Here is the abstact of an interview with Adrian Raine from the Department of Criminology at the University of Pennsylvania, originally broadcast on the ABC Radio's "The Science Show", on the 15th of October, 2011.

    A region of the brain known as the orbital frontal cortex regulates emotion. But there's a gender difference with men having a smaller volume. This helps explain why men commit more crime than women. The volume of the amygdala is important for the generation of emotions. White collar criminals have an advantage due to their brain volumes and wiring. Psychopaths show a reduction in the functioning of the amygdala. They have reduced emotional reaction. So why do we punish psychopaths harshly? They didn't ask to have smaller amygdalas and reduced emotional response to their actions. Adrian Raine asks if psychopaths lack fear, how useful is punishment?

    It has traditionally been thought that psychopaths are all bad. Kevin Dutton says psychopaths can be fearless, ruthless, amoral and devious while still being charming, charismatic and persuasive. He says psychopaths are very good at persuasion due to a trait known as cold empathy. Our personalities are a mixture of elements with some turned up, and others turned down. There are jobs where high scores on the psychopathic spectrum can be advantageous, such as some areas of intricate, high risk surgery.


    If you would like to read the entire transcript, here is the address:


    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the-psychopath-in-us-all/3591116

    Cheers,

    Tony.

    Carmody, excellent response to this post. Now my turn at this wheel.

    Tony, your effort is appreciated but this may not be received well by you, or some others. I hope to be wrong.

    If I had to sum up the mind set presented in the above post I would call it, Stockholm Syndrome. This term seems an apt reply for the quasi-scientific treatise above. I referred to the Stockholm Syndrome because it is a mental illness, usually temporary?' whereby the victim identifies and even sympathizes with their captor.

    I remember the word punishment being used. Punishment is a concept I dropped some time after somebody stopped punishing me. Punishment is the spiritual equivalent of still pooping your pants.
    When I pull a tick off of an animal and kill it I am not punishing it. I am ridding the world of it and the parasitical behavior it brings. Similarly I do not punish tapeworms or other 'freeloaders'. Punishment comes from inner pain of the punisher in an effort to rid themselves of their own inner demons. It is often a form of transference/projection. Putting someone in prison is a form of self defense primarily and, perhaps, a chance for someone to get some serious downtime for inner reflection while removed from the disorienting push and shove of the world. Facilitation of the latter scenario would require a safe environment for the imprisoned or it is nothing more than sending someone to hell, or punishment.

    I do not much follow the genetic/chemical/brain damage construct and am more aligned with possession by a virus type of entity scenario. The Archontic concept posited by Gnostics and modern proponents such as John Lash are what my perceptions bring me. The actual words or verbiage used for these disincarnate entities is not as important as knowing of their existence and behavior as pertains to interactions with our species. The presence/possession of these energies in a human produces certain chemical and physical brain changes that have been identified. Congenital brain damage may predispose a human to it but it is not the causal aspect. The same thing may be said for genetics and once a body is 'infected' DNA changes will result and be found.

    The enormity of this problem cannot be overstated. A quick look around the world and the mess it is in informs us of the severity of the problem. This is beyond 'them' just making our lives miserable. They are doing the best they can to hurt the living Earth, our Mother Gaia.
    Take a look down the timeline at our 'past' and you see this has been going on for a long time. Too long.

    Take a look at the colored pyramid above and laugh because it is a joke. A totally fake construct that has no semblance of our spiritual nature and who/what we really are. It is typical scientific gibberish put into nice colors and words for our visual proclivities. A form of optical hypnosis akin to a magicians prestidigitation, meant only to distract. It seems to posit a clear charting of the problem to minds that will usually passively accept it without question. The easy thing to do. We are a mentally lazy species and that may be the biggest part of our problem. Facing this problem and the solutions will require some thought. Sympathy is the easy way out and no solution at all. Surmounting the huge denial of this problem is an emotional hurdle that will require us making a quantum leap into spiritual maturity and we don't have many examples in our culture. The psychopaths carefully keep them from view or simply kill them.

    Houston, we have a problem. We better get to it.

    I know more may be required of me further down the unfolding of this thread. I do hope to see lots of others getting it and making that less of a necessity.
    Last edited by modwiz; 30th November 2011 at 05:30.

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    Default Re: Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

    Modwiz, contamination by viruses or bacteria can run into family trees, therefore looking like being genetic. More, viruses can change the genetic codes of cells and therefore the transmission through generations becomes truly genetic. If it is viral though, reversal may be possible when science will be advanced enough. imho

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