Ron Paul (2010-2011)

[ghostrider]

RP saw the housing bubble coming no one listened, and saw the monetary problem coming, no one listened. he has been consistently right on...his electiom could undo a lot of damage that has been done by the war machine and the corporation machine...

[alienHunter]

Actually Risveglio, Here it is, not there.

Pope John Paul II stated that humanity was at a level in their development where they should be able to transcend their animal natures and do what is right for the world. First and foremost, he believed that we have the ability to conquer hunger in the world but it simply wasn't being done for lack of caring.

Tell me how Ron Paul will help my vision of a better world come to pass?

and if you would like to argue the point, let's assume, even concede that you've convinced me that it is the statement that matters not the man issuing it.

[risveglio]

Posted by alienHunter (here)
Actually Risveglio, Here it is, not there.

Pope John Paul II stated that humanity was at a level in their development where they should be able to transcend their animal natures and do what is right for the world. First and foremost, he believed that we have the ability to conquer hunger in the world but it simply wasn't being done for lack of caring.

Tell me how Ron Paul will help my vision of a better world come to pass?

Cause Ron Paul wouldn't give you the illusion that someone else is taking care of it. So you and every other person that wanted to help feed the world would feel more inclined to help. Let me ask you, why don't we have this better world vision now? We have had big government now for decades, yet there are more poor, more countries starving, more people being robbed of there freedoms. Seems we know governments don't work. Might as well give free markets a try.

People that attack free markets are either scared to be free, which I understand, we here in the US have been taught you can't do it on your own. Or they don't understand what it means to have a free market.

We do not have free markets now. It was not free markets that created huge companies with no possibility to compete.

If you are really open, give Milton Friedman's Free to Choose a watch. It is readily available in pieces on the internet and though I don't agree with Friedman on everything, he does explain free markets very well and shows example after example of how true capitalism has been responsible for taking more people out of poverty than anything else we have ever tried. Tossing away capitalism because of what the US and Europe has done to it is wrong. It is just as wrong as throwing out all the teachings of Jesus because of what the Church has done in his name. That is truly evil.

[alienHunter]

Posted by risveglio (here)

Posted by alienHunter (here)
Actually Risveglio, Here it is, not there.

Pope John Paul II stated that humanity was at a level in their development where they should be able to transcend their animal natures and do what is right for the world. First and foremost, he believed that we have the ability to conquer hunger in the world but it simply wasn't being done for lack of caring.

Tell me how Ron Paul will help my vision of a better world come to pass?

Cause Ron Paul wouldn't give you the illusion that someone else is taking care of it. So you and every other person that wanted to help feed the world would feel more inclined to help. Let me ask you, why don't we have this better world vision now? We have had big government now for decades, yet there are more poor, more countries starving, more people being robbed of there freedoms. Seems we know governments don't work. Might as well give free markets a try.

People that attack free markets are either scared to be free, which I understand, we here in the US have been taught you can't do it on your own. Or they don't understand what it means to have a free market.

We do not have free markets now. It was not free markets that created huge companies with no possibility to compete.

If you are really open, give Milton Friedman's Free to Choose a watch. It is readily available in pieces on the internet and though I don't agree with Friedman on everything, he does explain free markets very well and shows example after example of how true capitalism has been responsible for taking more people out of poverty than anything else we have ever tried. Tossing away capitalism because of what the US and Europe has done to it is wrong. It is just as wrong as throwing out all the teachings of Jesus because of what the Church has done in his name. That is truly evil.

The primary reason is because we still operate at the animal level...some more than others.

I would never attack free markets...it's all in the implementation. Free markets are obviously part and parcel to the concept of freedom and though I hate to stoop so low to say... to Americanism. Again I am cool with that. But we have seen what capitalists will do without hesitation under the auspices of a 'free market'. A free market is not always free but it is always a market and when that is coupled with 'animals' the product is not always pretty.

I actually lean to Krugman, of course...but I will check Friedman at a more in depth level...but again, current conditions in tandem with good old common sense should always take precedence over philosophy. Even Socrates has had interpreters with very different perspectives based on the prevailing condition of their era. Nothing is static, nor so beyond philosophical approach/reproach that it shouldn't be tempered with contemporary reason.

I wanted to add that I think Plato was an asshole.

[Unified Serenity]

alien hunter, why don't you back up what you say? You make outlandish statements about RP and when pressed for some proof you ignore it and then pose some other argument or question. You know, I read somewhere that that is a tactic for a disinfo agent. Are you a disinfo agent Alien Hunter?

[alienHunter]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
alien hunter, why don't you back up what you say? You make outlandish statements about RP and when pressed for some proof you ignore it and then pose some other argument or question. You know, I read somewhere that that is a tactic for a disinfo agent. Are you a disinfo agent Alien Hunter?

Yes, Unified, I am a disinfo agent. My goal is to deny all the good things attributed to him as mere propaganda. Nothing more than wishful thinking propelled by those that refuse to look into the man's heart. How am I doing?

In truth, that is my next step, if i have to sink so low. I really would prefer that people do their own research regarding the man's history. I would also suggest that the history not be parsed or filtered merely digested whole.

[risveglio]

Posted by alienHunter (here)
I actually lean to Krugman.

Krugman? LOL. I am sorry, I didn't realize you were joking the entire time.

[alienHunter]

Posted by risveglio (here)

Posted by alienHunter (here)
I actually lean to Krugman.

Krugman? LOL. I am sorry, I didn't realize you were joking the entire time.

Risveglio,

Do you really believe he said that?

[Unified Serenity]

AH, You have offered no history, no proof, but keep making false statements, and when shown the proof you can't even comment, you just come back later with another outlandish statement. So, yes, I see that you are here to lie about a man who has the best voting record, has stood by his beliefs his entire career, and there is nothing they can lay on him that shows him to be a liar. From now on, I will ignore anything you have to say about RP except rebut with proof that you are lying about him.

Respectfully,

Serenity

Posted by alienHunter (here)

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
alien hunter, why don't you back up what you say? You make outlandish statements about RP and when pressed for some proof you ignore it and then pose some other argument or question. You know, I read somewhere that that is a tactic for a disinfo agent. Are you a disinfo agent Alien Hunter?

Yes, Unified, I am a disinfo agent. My goal is to deny all the good things attributed to him as mere propaganda. Nothing more than wishful thinking propelled by those that refuse to look into the man's heart. How am I doing?

In truth, that is my next step, if i have to sink so low. I really would prefer that people do their own research regarding the man's history. I would also suggest that the history not be parsed or filtered merely digested whole.

[risveglio]

I wouldn't put it past him. There is an amazingly long list of stupid things Krugman has said, including suggesting we have a fake alien invasion.

[alienHunter]

Posted by risveglio (here)
I wouldn't put it past him. There is an amazingly long list of stupid things Krugman has said, including suggesting we have a fake alien invasion.

actually, i just checked he did say that and in retrospect that is pretty stupid with a capital S. But the statement was made out of context...for whatever that's worth. I suspect that most Nobel winners are not usually that dumb. A little thought would suggest to me...that his definition of a bubble is expansive growth. A real one, not one predicated on speculative economic machinations like derivatives.

[risveglio]

Posted by risveglio (here)

Posted by alienHunter (here)
I actually lean to Krugman.

Krugman? LOL. I am sorry, I didn't realize you were joking the entire time.

Posted by alienHunter (here)
Risveglio,

Do you really believe he said that?

Yeah, I do. Here is the proof.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/02/op...l?pagewanted=1

[alienHunter]

Unified,

I feel somewhat gratified that you are no longer paying attention to me, so you won't read this response to my lack of responses to your 'proof'. I see it as ridiculous propaganda. I have seen a number of at least somewhat partial pundits comment on his adherence to principle and go on to comment that it is a good thing. But Adolph Hitler was a stickler for principle as well. I've also seen and read those that go straight to the HEART of what I've been trying to impart in the least strident and offensive manner possible. But I haven't seen any of those comments appear in your 'proof'.

[daledo]

Posted by alienHunter (here)
"There is absolutely no truth in this statement, but you still believe the left/right bull****."

Truthfully, I'm a quick study in some regards. I've considered everything that I've read and heard and arrived back at my original conclusion. But I will say this, my life would not change under a Paul regime...yours might and I highly suspect you would not like the result. I don't wish harm or unhappiness on anyone so all I would add is "Be Careful what you ask for!"

The system is flawed and the policy of we got to get them before they get us is creating terrorists against america... why cant you see this? Once you finally come to the conclusion that everything the gov't cronies tell us is a lie or spun to get support for their agenda of world domination and the NWO... you just MIGHT come around, and I hope you do. Why do you think that the controlled mass media ignore Dr. Paul like he is invisible? It is because they are paid to do this because their NWO controllers say to take this approach.

Please, instead of spreading lies and propoganda against Ron Paul, ... just drink the tainted water, the GM foods they allow you to eat, and get on the front lines of the fake terrorist propaganda instead of supporting sending others to their deaths, and refrain from swaying people to vote for the only honest candidate running.

You may be correct in saying you life might not change under Paul as president... but with any other world domination NWO president I can assure you that we will be in WW3 and your life WILL change then.

We have been headed down a very dark path for many years now and it gets worse almost every day, their control over the population is growing and our freedoms have been eroding for decades. I am tired of how things are run, and we need a change in regime. You may be happy with what you read and see with main stream media... I just don't see how you can.

[dreamer]

don't worry Avalon, not all houstonians see RP in this twisted view, he has lots of love from Houston, and if you disagree, start a thread, don't argue your point on a pro-Ron Paul thread...

[Jeffrey]

Posted by dreamer (here)
don't worry Avalon, not all houstonians see RP in this twisted view, he has lots of love from Houston, and if you disagree, start a thread, don't argue your point on a pro-Ron Paul thread...

I'm with you man, but you can't tell me that Ron Paul's enthusiastic base of support would shy away from posting on an anti-RP thread!

[baddbob]

alienHunter no disrespect here by me saying this but please go and find a better candidate and post your results. i will gladly debate you on it. To me I can just look at the candidate's and see the lies that are behind them its in there eyes,its in the way they stand,the way they smile at you when you know deep down in your heart that they are lying.Maybe its just me but you know they are worthless when they support the same things over and over again and thats why we are in the mess we are in I as an American want it stopped! Im not falling for the same ole same ole cause that does not work and we as Americans have years and years of proof just for example in vietnam most of our soldiers didnt even know why they were fighting.We need to get our house in order before we can start to care for someone else we are hurting over here and we need change! Its time for us to change the chanel because the same ole story isnt working the world has changed we need to get rid of the old way of thinking because that thought has passed.Its not the rich bastards that it effects its our young generation This country was based on the costitution thats what they have to go buy and thats why they are voting for Ron Paul they see him as a father figure who is looking out for them and doesnt care about other countries when his people are in such trouble.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Vivek (here)

Posted by dreamer (here)
don't worry Avalon, not all houstonians see RP in this twisted view, he has lots of love from Houston, and if you disagree, start a thread, don't argue your point on a pro-Ron Paul thread...

I'm with you man, but you can't tell me that Ron Paul's enthusiastic base of support would shy away from posting on an anti-RP thread!

Sheepishly grins and knows you are right, but from all my encounters of RP fans, we at least back up what we say with facts, and not just spout off thougts as if they are facts because we said so. We have the videos and years of facts to back up that RP says what he means, does what he says, and follows the constituion FIRST LAST and ALWAYS!

[NancyV]

Posted by alienHunter (here)

Posted by NancyV (here)
Ron Paul, in my opinion, is right in what he says in many way and the What If video is inspiring, but:

What if he is a visionary, ahead of his time?
What if he is ignoring human nature and the almost certain probability that human nature will not change?
What if the US becomes more isolationist, who will step into that void? China or Russia most likely.
What if the world then comes under the domination of China or Russia when the US becomes a lesser power?
What if their human rights violations are even worse than the human rights violations of the US?

I consider Ron Paul's foreign policy ideas to be dangerous. In an ideal world we could all just get along, but that is not going to happen any time soon. Reality often sucks and in the case of world politics, wars, etc. it sucks big time. Radical Islam has been engaged in wars of conquest for a couple of thousand years. Communism has been engaged in conquest and oppression for not quite 200 years. Fascism is equally dangerous. We ignore these realities at our peril. Anyone who thinks these dangers don't exist or can be ignored and avoided needs to study history.

Our aspirations towards peace and love will only work on an individual level. We can attempt to influence others, BUT we will not change human nature. Humans (mostly men) are a warlike species who have engaged in wars of conquest and subjugation of others as far back as we have records of history.

I agree, but that's not my real problem. My problem is that Paul's vision applies only to those who are at the same spiritual, emotional, physical, and philosophical level as he. He is a very, very ugly human being.

I agree that Paul's vision only applies to those who have similar philosophies to his...and that is a minority of the population of the world. As far as being an "ugly human being"... he doesn't come across that way to me. If I were to think every naive or misguided human was ugly then it would be a huge majority of the human race. It might even include me! But I am a terrible judge of character and know I have that weakness. I find Ron Paul rather endearing in his enthusiasm, misguided as I think his foreign policy stances are. I don't think he will be successful in winning the republican nomination as he is not supported by the PTB. (which makes him a better person) Personally I don't trust any politicians, even the ones who make a lot of sense at times.

[alienHunter]

jeesuz, ok, Can I at least say that I think he isn't very nice...without someone suggesting I'm out to get Ron Paul...Ron Paul does not confront me at all, really. I don't argue for anyone that I don't know personally and I wouldn't argue for most of them. I only counter argue to possibly dispel the negativity that most Paul supporters (at least here) are immersed in. The words I see repeated are 'principle' (a code word for authoritarianism), traitor conspiracy (a code word for somebody has got something I don't), freedom (a code word for "I" want to decide the definition of freedom), fear...(a code word for this **** ain't going the way I want it too), big government (a code word for those goddamn freeloaders are f*cking us up), I could go on but I won't.

This is not at all what i suspected would come from a site initiated by Bill Ryan...has he ever stated his opinion on subjects such as these?