Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

[nf857]

have heard that the perception of oneself when looking in the mirror is going to a different part of the brain than when looking at another person. Therefor some "imperfections" get exaggerated, like someone may think there nose is to big.

While when observing the appearance of another those same people don't see the "imperfections" or don't observe them as critically as they do to themselves.

When looking at oneself the whole is not seen, just parts of the body as individual parts of the picture and when looking at another the whole picture is observed.

li

Alien hunter rambler is making perfect sense they are talking about how we can have a distorted view of ourselves through our perception of ourselves in the image they see in the mirror, you can be face dsymorphic or body dsymorphic, i,e, what you see is not what others see, in most cases these are to a lot lesser extant, but if your body dsymorphic you can quite literally have a very very distorted view of themselves, this distortion, if not treated can lead to anorexia as well, not just the images we see on the T.V. but in the mirror too, which makes you think is what we see in the mirror really us-out true selvs, if in some cases this distortion can happen x

[alienHunter]

Hi nf857,

yes, I agree...very true.

[9eagle9]

I wish you had been around to tell me that then....lol.

I asked my father one day what happened to his hair , he was going bald . And he said . it just flew away one day. Now there's hair neurosis, a child's imagination wondering when their hair is just going to take wing and disappear.....lol.

At a early age I got a glimpse of people creating the idol as noted upthread. When we were vacationing in Aruba a woman at a cocktail party asked my father if he was Gene Hackman. She had good reason for doing so, he was the spitting image of Gene Hackman. But Dad said, No I'm not. And the women coyly insisted he was. Then her friends insisted he was. So my Dad gave up being the amiable fellow he was and said, Oh okay yes, Gene Hackman, please don't let anyone know I'm here.

After that.....it was feeding frenzy, he was stalked day and night, feted with cocktails, bras' with room numbers tucked into them, chased in hallways....it was amazing. At first he thought it was funny having dozens of people plying him with free drinks and dinner, and then started getting uneasy but....the cat was out of the bag and prowling. This went on for an entire week. Finally at the airport when we're ready to go home the original women who had imposed this on him, flirtatiously wanted 'one more kiss on the cheek'. One of those "I'll never wash my hand again types"

And he said. Look, Lady. I'm not Gene Hackman. Look at my airline ticket. I'm Mr. Somethingoranother from Pontiac Michigan. She got so pissed, she smacked him.

I reflect on this over the years, how people insited on creating this scenario. And in order to keep the peace my father was agreeable to it but it created this monster that got out hand fast, by those who are so seeking idoltry--false idols. False ideals. Idol and Ideal are not far apart.

This was in the 70's way before computer generation. so yes the audience has a great deal to do with the whole mechanism.

Posted by alienHunter (here)
My God, eagle i find that statement horrifying and it explains why my daughter when she was younger would totally freak out when I said that. I did sort of suspect that, so I continue to this day to remind her that her nose is the 'girl's' version and much more feminine in size and shape than mine.

For whatever its worth, I'm sure the same is true for you...

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Oh yes. When I was a child my aunt remarked I had my dad's nose. So I look at this giant adult man nose on my father's face and it immediately transfered to my face and it stayed with me whole life.

Children can't put things into perspective like that.

My daughter has started to thoush, she's 16. She peruses the magazines and looks at the body types small medium large, big bones, small bones. Petite and Regular, and tall And she says, "Madre we're not in here, there's no listing for Tank and Beast."

I tell her we're one of a kind types.

When clothes started being made in ChinaI had a few shirts that couldn't cover my stomach, not matter the size. Well I'm thinking , of course these shirts are made in place where women are all 5'2 and under and I'm trying to adapt that to my 5'7 body, so even a t shirt was riding right above my navel.....and maybe that's where it become popular to show your midriff.....lol.

Posted by Midnight Rambler (here)
I have heard that the perception of oneself when looking in the mirror is going to a different part of the brain than when looking at another person. Therefor some "imperfections" get exaggerated, like someone may think there nose is to big.

While when observing the appearance of another those same people don't see the "imperfections" or don't observe them as critically as they do to themselves.

When looking at oneself the whole is not seen, just parts of the body as individual parts of the picture and when looking at another the whole picture is observed.

[modwiz]

Posted by EnergyGardener (here)
West or East, we are all realizing the absurdity of our cultures.

Couldn't it be said that if all women didn't wear makeup, shave, or even wear deodorant (I lived in Europe), we would all be just as happy? I believe, like you suggest, much more so.

Maybe even moreso.

Aren't human women the most beautiful creation a being could ever imagine, as they are?

Without question, IMO.

This is just another reason I hope (and pray) that the Western military juggernaut does no harm to the beautiful Iranian women; and those they love: their fathers, husbands, brothers and sons.

Yes, the smokey beauty of Persian women. Indeed.

I believe, that if there is a pole shift in magnetic fields, but also a balancing of male and female energies, posts like this will become unnecessary in several years. That kind of shift would be a very good change indeed.

Cheers,

Yes, it would be a blessing.

[alienHunter]

I'm following you big time...as we Americans say.

your whole post is oddly reminiscent of some of my experiences...if someone insists you're Gene Hackman...then heck go with it..

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I wish you had been around to tell me that then....lol.

I asked my father one day what happened to his hair , he was going bald . And he said . it just flew away one day. Now there's hair neurosis, a child's imagination wondering when their hair is just going to take wing and disappear.....lol.

At a early age I got a glimpse of people creating the idol as noted upthread. When we were vacationing in Aruba a woman at a cocktail party asked my father if he was Gene Hackman. She had good reason for doing so, he was the spitting image of Gene Hackman. But Dad said, No I'm not. And the women coyly insisted he was. Then her friends insisted he was. So my Dad gave up being the amiable fellow he was and said, Oh okay yes, Gene Hackman, please don't let anyone know I'm here.

After that.....it was feeding frenzy, he was stalked day and night, feted with cocktails, bras' with room numbers tucked into them, chased in hallways....it was amazing. At first he thought it was funny having dozens of people plying him with free drinks and dinner, and then started getting uneasy but....the cat was out of the bag and prowling. This went on for an entire week. Finally at the airport when we're ready to go home the original women who had imposed this on him, flirtatiously wanted 'one more kiss on the cheek'. One of those "I'll never wash my hand again types"

And he said. Look, Lady. I'm not Gene Hackman. Look at my airline ticket. I'm Mr. Somethingoranother from Pontiac Michigan. She got so pissed, she smacked him.

I reflect on this over the years, how people insited on creating this scenario. And in order to keep the peace my father was agreeable to it but it created this monster that got out hand fast, by those who are so seeking idoltry--false idols. False ideals. Idol and Ideal are not far apart.

This was in the 70's way before computer generation. so yes the audience has a great deal to do with the whole mechanism.

Posted by alienHunter (here)
My God, eagle i find that statement horrifying and it explains why my daughter when she was younger would totally freak out when I said that. I did sort of suspect that, so I continue to this day to remind her that her nose is the 'girl's' version and much more feminine in size and shape than mine.

For whatever its worth, I'm sure the same is true for you...

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Oh yes. When I was a child my aunt remarked I had my dad's nose. So I look at this giant adult man nose on my father's face and it immediately transfered to my face and it stayed with me whole life.

Children can't put things into perspective like that.

My daughter has started to thoush, she's 16. She peruses the magazines and looks at the body types small medium large, big bones, small bones. Petite and Regular, and tall And she says, "Madre we're not in here, there's no listing for Tank and Beast."

I tell her we're one of a kind types.

When clothes started being made in ChinaI had a few shirts that couldn't cover my stomach, not matter the size. Well I'm thinking , of course these shirts are made in place where women are all 5'2 and under and I'm trying to adapt that to my 5'7 body, so even a t shirt was riding right above my navel.....and maybe that's where it become popular to show your midriff.....lol.

Posted by Midnight Rambler (here)
I have heard that the perception of oneself when looking in the mirror is going to a different part of the brain than when looking at another person. Therefor some "imperfections" get exaggerated, like someone may think there nose is to big.

While when observing the appearance of another those same people don't see the "imperfections" or don't observe them as critically as they do to themselves.

When looking at oneself the whole is not seen, just parts of the body as individual parts of the picture and when looking at another the whole picture is observed.

[Midnight Rambler]

Another interesting way our perception is fooled is by the use of perfumes. Men and women find attraction to each other with some considerable help from endorphin's (Wikipedia on endorphin's)

We choose a partner that matches with our DNA to prevent inbreeding. By using perfume the receptors and brain get fooled and we might end up with someone else than when no perfume is used.

[alienHunter]

As an adoptee, that is a scary thought...I, for one, find the right perfume intoxicating...I ain't no animal

Posted by Midnight Rambler (here)
Another interesting way our perception is fooled is by the use of perfumes. Men and women find attraction to each other with some considerable help from endorphin's (Wikipedia on endorphin's)

We choose a partner that matches with our DNA to prevent inbreeding. By using perfume the receptors and brain get fooled and we might end up with someone else than when no perfume is used.

[Earth Angel]

My father has insisted for years that the divorce rate went up incredibly after people started wearing deodorant ( in the 50s in Ireland this was not done).....he said it prevented our natural ability to smell a persons natural scent and decide if this was the right person for us.........perhaps he is right..........

Posted by Midnight Rambler (here)
Another interesting way our perception is fooled is by the use of perfumes. Men and women find attraction to each other with some considerable help from endorphin's (Wikipedia on endorphin's)

We choose a partner that matches with our DNA to prevent inbreeding. By using perfume the receptors and brain get fooled and we might end up with someone else than when no perfume is used.

[modwiz]

Posted by Earth Angel (here)
My father has insisted for years that the divorce rate went up incredibly after people started wearing deodorant ( in the 50s in Ireland this was not done).....he said it prevented our natural ability to smell a persons natural scent and decide if this was the right person for us.........perhaps he is right..........

Posted by Midnight Rambler (here)
Another interesting way our perception is fooled is by the use of perfumes. Men and women find attraction to each other with some considerable help from endorphin's (Wikipedia on endorphin's)

We choose a partner that matches with our DNA to prevent inbreeding. By using perfume the receptors and brain get fooled and we might end up with someone else than when no perfume is used.

I am in total agreement with this. I work at a holistic institute for 6 months a year. Many of the community, returning year after year, are of the hippie type sub-culture whether they are 20 or 65 years old. Many of us do not wear deodorant. Now, the dining hall serves only vegetarian food which has a profound effect on scent. That said, I really enjoy being able to source people and know them in a more personal fashion through scent. There is so much information there. You do have to 'play' with this until you begin to appreciate the huge amount of data in this form of communication. There are some basic responses that you do not need a frontal cortex to work with though and this is the more important information.

Much of our autonomic nervous system works with the pheromones in our scent. This is short circuited by deodorants that mask or confuse our biology. The very first cranial nerve
is the olfactory nerve and the second one is the optic nerve. I believe a hierarchy of importance is revealed in this progression of cranial nerves. There are twelve of them. BTW the third one is oculomotor. So, first priority is to smell, then see and then to look around. We do rise up from 'blind' unicellular organisms. A sense of 'smell' is how information is shared and food is found.

[Midnight Rambler]

Posted by modwiz (here)
Much of our autonomic nervous system works with the pheromones in our scent. This is short circuited by deodorants that mask or confuse our biology....

Yes, thank you Modwiz. I actually meant to say pheromones. I seem to always mix these two up as a programmed error. lol

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Hi Astrid,

Just joining this thread. Thanks for starting it. I have been surprised that there has not been more scrutiny on the subject of how side effects of digital culture are creating unrealistic and unattainable expectations that lead to dissatisfaction in relationships, self esteem, sense of personal value, etc. There are two layers to this that I believe are effecting our children in their formative years and the long term effects on our society are unknown (but I think they will be profound).

First, we have the mainstream media through tv, movies, print ads, music videos, and even song lyrics. The programming is constant. Now, we know that it is the male of the species that is so visually oriented so this can be seen as a sort of patriarchal subjugation. Boys and girls are programmed to never question the idea that a woman's greatest value is to serve men visually by being attractive. What's so bad about that? It invalidates every other aspect of a woman's value and identity.

Second, young people have access to pornography now. I've read several articles about porn addiction in adolescents becoming a problem. Both boys and girls are learning at a young age that the primary value of a woman is as a sex object. Also, both genders are programmed that the sex they see in pronogrpahy is what is expected. Most of the sex they are exposed to centers on women pleasing men for approval and also being mildly to heavily degraded as being normal. and for those who do not know, psychologists are reporting one third of all sex addiction they are treating now is women. This is a change from just a few years ago and has profound implications as to what is happening in our society with regards to relationships, isolation, loss of community, and intimacy.

I think the long term effects of all this are yet to be seen and again I am surprised there is not ore dialogue about this in our society. I am trying to spell this out so people can realize that this is an important topic and not simply a "feminist issue" (and so what if it was? Like that's a bad thing?)

Disclaimer for those who need it: No, thee is nothing wrong with adults enjoying erotic material. This isn;t about that. there is also nothing wrong with being and feeling attractive or enjoying the attractiveness of another. This isn't about that, either.

Thanks for reading.

[modwiz]

Posted by Midnight Rambler (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)
Much of our autonomic nervous system works with the pheromones in our scent. This is short circuited by deodorants that mask or confuse our biology....

Yes, thank you Modwiz. I actually meant to say pheromones. I seem to always mix these two up as a programmed error. lol

The right pheromones will produce endorphins. The right scent is intoxicating.

[CdnSirian]

This type of discussion was rampant 50 yrs ago. There was once upon a time a movement mostly supported by women, but also supported by men. It decried the fashionista requirements of body shape/hair/make up/ et al for women in the workplace, and in general. This movement changed the perception of women as academic potentials. Unfortunately it has not influenced the 100 cent dollar (the male paycheck) to the once 69 cent (now around 73 I last read) dollar women earn.

But back to beauty - and the multi billion dollar beauty/fashion/diet industry peddled to women - and now men. (And at this point in time that movement has been hijacked, degraded and mocked).

Oh yes haven't we been manipulated. The result of equalization between the sexes means that men can join in being sex objects, and be even more manipulated than they ever have been in regards to porn. Porn is a multi billion dollar industry, equaling the total of the film, music, and fashion product industry yearly, in revenue. Then the issue of censorship comes in. Has never worked.

Early feminists tried to deal with the issue of porn. Went no where. Early feminists tried to present the idea that overweight grey-haired women wearing no make up should have equal opportunity in the job markets. Early feminists tried to educate men, and actually did for a couple of generations. A little.

I know men who truly don't care what their woman looks like, they want someone to really get in synch with. But they still want to look at the centerfold. But is that a learned behavior or inherent? Porn has been around forever, because it makes money.

As men market themselves to get good jobs, so do women. All the extremes mentioned above (body image problems, men who can't get the beauty queen, and don't even think to look at female people in general) are getting worse. Men are now encouraged to wear make up to job interviews - conceal those dark circles under your eyes, a little bit of subtle eye liner to make you look alert and bright.

Here's some good old fashioned reading "The Beauty Myth" by Naomi Wolf. "Pornography and Silence" by Griffin. "Women Against Censorship" by Varda Burstyn. All related to this topic, which is big.

I once dated a guy who wasn't a handsome man. He was gentle, considerate, funny et al. Then I discovered he kept a picture of Cindy Crawford in his briefcase. He turned red when it fell out in front of me. "You like the model with the college degree, huh?" I bantered. (yeah I know many models have college degrees, or model to pay for one). "She has a college degree?" Then he turned white. Some aspect of his fantasy shattered.

So let's get real. Let's boycott all fashion products. Except the natural unscented deodorants, please. Unless people want to stop and wash their armpits a few times a day. I have a very sensitive nose. Let's not dye our hair, wear make up, wear clothes that are attractive, fitted, or designed with aesthetics in mind. Let's just shine through.

Or to stay in the game you have to play the game right? Try explaining this to your teenager or middle schooler. Check out the movies involving cheer leaders and quarterbacks. It's a fashioned up "Lord Of The Flies". And each child is potentially Piggy, in one way or another.

When my son was little he asked me why I put in make up. He told me I looked better without it. A few years later he told me one day that I needed to lose weight, work out, grow and curl my hair, and dress differently. Well, ok triple my income first right? Well, there goes another smart boy into the fray...

Very thought provoking thread...but I must move on. Regards all.

[Belle]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
... Health and Beauty have always marketed side by side.

Healthy people look better . The pitiful images posted above have nothing to do with beauty --that's about one's health. We should of course correct for health. But to attempt to drag that into the Beauty Queen pageant is ludicrous. Beauty doesn't always mean health though. You can't fix everyting, airbrush it and make it up and call it healthy.,,,,

I find it interesting that people go on and on about healthy lifestyles...from food to exercise, etc...yet paint up their faces. Don't they realize what goes into most cosmetics?

Years before medicine came in patches to be absorbed by the skin, I wondered about what the chemicals in cosmetics might be doing to my body. I chose cosmetics that were made from organic materials for those times I needed to wear make-up for work.

I eat for health and nutrition...why wouldn't I be concerned about what I put on my body? It has become clear that skin absorbs what is put on it.

When I see what these young girls are doing to themselves by putting make-up (usually cheap and low quality) on beautiful, flawless skin, I just cringe and shake my head.

Then again, I do the same thing when I see men wearing ties. To me it looks like they are wearing a collar and a leash in one piece of material. Serves no purpose but to proclaim that the one wearing it is owned....imo.

[CdnSirian]

"Nother book...Not just a pretty face: the ugly side of the beauty industry
By Stacy Malkan. Indeed, Belle we should not be willing to put something on our skin that we could not eat.

I once worked with an actress, an older lady who had fantastic healthy glowing skin. We youngers asked her what she used. She said that every night after she finished eating dinner, she would wipe her plate with the sauce/salad dressing whatever, and smear it all over her face. She would leave the mask on while she cleaned up, and then wash it off. That is all she ever used. Food for thought...

[grapevine]

My friend has a daughter who is absolutely beautiful except that she has sticking out ears. Her life has been made a misery by the kids at school and all she wants is to have them fixed. No amount of telling her how beautiful she is makes any difference. Her self esteem is nil. Should she be made to "suffer" what is in her imagination or should she be able to get her ears fixed and just get on with her life? - imo I think she is absolutely beautiful and maybe one day she will realise this. I agree with the sentiments on here about falsity but at the end of the day it's all down to what we think and feel inside, not matter how small or large our 'deformity' is and whether it's real or imagined. We all just want to fit in. It shouldn't be like this but unfortunately it is.

[Lettherebelight]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by Lettherebelight (here)
It's up to mothers, fathers and loving guardians to instill real self esteem and good judgement in their children.

Then, no amount of false advertising will affect them to any serious degree.

No legislation needed, just good old fashioned parenting...with lots of love.

We lead by example.

Wow, the mothers are guilty again and the parents as a whole as well. If their
daughter has low self esteem, it is because of parenthood.

How far are we going to go before admitting that there is something definitly wrong with advertising to make money at

aaaany price, even if young girls become anorexic and die. Even if you have a row of unhappy beings, young girls because of low self esteem, boys because they think they should deserve the fake beauty and depreciate the wonderful being they are with, - even Gary admits the fake is better.... duh..., this goes as well for the hard core porn that boys look at and then ask their 14 years old girl friend, for example, to do the same duh.... taking women for porn acts.

They won't be happier as adults, unless they go to therapy to change their beliefs and behaviors, but sex based behaviors
won't change even with therapies (this is probably THE strongest programming one can have when it is link with sexual conten and advertisers/PTB knows it).

Low self esteem at teenager time is establish through other's eyes, teenager is the age of individual socializing of the young, therefore self esteem is then based on the other's views of them, not the parents. The teenager could not care less what the
parent sees in them if their friends reject them.

Stop accusing parents for everything the kids do/think/live for one, and see the social responsibilities that are NEVER taken into account when there is commercial gains for one.

Do ask teenagers how they feel with those pretty women (girls and boys) what they think, see, live and want. You will see
how srewed up it can get. When they have older ones with head on the shoulders and heart at the right place, it helps, but that is not a compensation for the commercial use and abuse of teenagers brains, hearts and sexuality.

Sorry Flash, I can see this is a sore point for you. I agree that the advertising industry plays a part in the manipulation of young women, and preys on the easily-swayed. This kind of trickery exists because the culture of our society allows it to. I believe we will one day evolve out of it.

I still believe that the primary responsibility lies with parents and care-givers, eqipping their children with the understanding, knowledge and love that it takes to rise above the baser nature of some humans. i think we can all take a feather from people like 9Eagle9's cap, and I'm sure many others, as to what that looks like in
practical terms.

And I don't think it has so much to do with teenagers as it does with small children. From the very beginning of their lives, their understanding of the world we live in, and their place in it is gradually formed. A house built on a strong foundation is less likely to fall when the shaky teenage years come to pass.

I know we are surrounded by an advertising industry which manipulates women. I agree with Modwiz, who said earlier, being aware of the problem, and drawing a spotlight on it, is the first step in making a change. If we look deeper, we'll see that societal downfalls are ultimately the fault of that society...who else can we blame.

We will change it only with love and understanding. And the wounded will be healed only with love and understanding.

[astrid]

Lots of great comments and issues raised thank you.
Non compliance can only come after awareness is
reached as to what is actually going on . Blasting
us with unobtainable images and from a very young
age is quite deliibarate and carefully crafted manipulation
to keep us in LACK. Which is the basis of comsumerism
without lack we dont need stuff . Living a pure , simple
and healthy life bears little resembleance to the life
we are being sold we should live .
While this at first look may seem only trivial and
skin deep - pun intended , is actually a very carefully
planned and manipulated rabbit hole that represents
one way we are all feed a diet of lies presented as
truths which we then try to live up to .
Yet another control mechanism exposed, which allows
people to make better choices in what they want to
support . Has to be a good thing, yes ?
Guys that just see a pretty face and would be
only too happy to date the girl at the end, remind
yourself she is not real and you have in fact been had .

[mysticalmary]

I don't think this means that western women are brainwashed, but I agree that there is a deep distortion in our perception of beauty. Thank you for posting, I will definitely be sharing this with my nieces!

[Flash]

A woman friend of mine was heavily criticising the Muslim women wearing their thador and hijab. She was beside herself when she would cross a covered up woman on the street. She could not understand this lack of physical freedom and this submission to other's standards of living.

So, another friend of mine, a christian (not muslim) psychotherapist, took a magazine with some models in it and said: fake boobs, had surgery, fake lips puffed with fat or whatever, fake eyes unwrinkles through surgery, fake forehead filled with botox, fake cheekbones enhanced with metal implant, bad spine from high heels shoes, fake buttock filled with hard silicone, tucked abdomen through surgery, liposuccion of the thighs, lazer removed hair over the whole body, fake tan from spraying, additional artificial hair on her head. Tell me, which one is more free?

My friend was, well, silenced.