Senefru (the first 4th dynasty pyramid builder)

[iceni tribe]

the poor old red pyramid seems to always get overlooked ,but it is one of my favourites.



Red Pyramid and the Bent Pyramid, both built by Senefru. These pyramids were closed to the public for many years because they are located near a military base. The Red and Bent Pyramids are both almost as large as the pyramids of Chephren and Cheops (the son and grandson of Seneferu). The Red pyramid was constructed after the Bent Pyramid and is constructed in much the same way as the Pyramid of Cheops with the corbled interior spaces.







here's the collapsed pyramid Seneferu's first attempt at pyramid building



here's the bent pyramid ,Seneferu,s secound attempt



and 3rd time lucky



now the question for me is why would he need three locations to rest his corpse or were they not built as tombs in the first place.

[Truthseeker512]

4th Dynasty they are not.

[Mu2143]

4th dynasty pyramid =false history .

[iceni tribe]

hi truthseeker512 and Mu2143

i would very much be interested in your version of history or maybe post a link to an alternative explanation or time lines.

Dynasty Three: O.C. 2686B.C. to 2613B.C.
Sanakhte
Djoser
Sekhemkhet
Khaba
Huni

Dynasty Four: O.C. 2613B.C. to 2498B.C.

Sneferu
Khufu
Djedefre
Khafre
Menkaure
Shepseskaf

Most of the white limestone casing of the pyramid was removed and used in the building of Cairo. However, some blocks remain and many of these had inscriptions on the inward facing sides naming Sneferu. Others bear the names of the work crews who placed the blocks and many are dated. Using these blocks it is estimated that building began between the twenty-second and twenty-ninth years of the reign of Sneferu and that the entire pyramid took around seventeen years to build.

source
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/...id-dashur.html

[Zillah]

Hey all - I suggest watching The Pyramid Code - a great film by Dr Carmen Boulter - she dives very deep into the false history, uncovers lies from Egyptologists and debunks much of what has been said about the pyramids - including Seneferu's pyramid, which were NOT failed attempts at all.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list...0&feature=plcp

[iceni tribe]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SmnnJytYjpM

Amazing Facts About the Pyramids at Giza

Uploaded with Comments by TheUniverseExplorer
September 18, 2011

'The Revelation of the Pyramids,' released on August 22, 2011 by Optimum Home Entertainment claims to finally uncover the truth about the Great Pyramids of Egypt, saying that "After nearly forty years of study and research, the producers of this documentary have at last managed first to understand and then to prove what lies behind one of the greatest archeological mysteries."

This film's director, Patrice Pooyard guides us through some of the world's oldest and most beautiful sites, aided by his anonymous informants and technical specialists. The producers of this film say that it will shake many accepted notions of world history to its core and completely revolutionize the field of Egyptology.

[Mu2143]

Posted by iceni tribe (here)
hi truthseeker512 and Mu2143

i would very much be interested in your version of history or maybe post a link to an alternative explanation or time lines.

Dynasty Three: O.C. 2686B.C. to 2613B.C.
Sanakhte
Djoser
Sekhemkhet
Khaba
Huni

Dynasty Four: O.C. 2613B.C. to 2498B.C.

Sneferu
Khufu
Djedefre
Khafre
Menkaure
Shepseskaf

Most of the white limestone casing of the pyramid was removed and used in the building of Cairo. However, some blocks remain and many of these had inscriptions on the inward facing sides naming Sneferu. Others bear the names of the work crews who placed the blocks and many are dated. Using these blocks it is estimated that building began between the twenty-second and twenty-ninth years of the reign of Sneferu and that the entire pyramid took around seventeen years to build.

source
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/...id-dashur.html

I'm wondering when you are asking for information when it is one click away to get that! (See my youtube link below)
Two words!! take responsibilty

www.beforeus.com
Ancient nuclear war

[iceni tribe]

Mu2143

promoting Jonathan Gray at www.beforeus.com ......dont make me laugh ,i fell for that page of his and down loaded his books. they are rubbish and he is just trying to grab a little piece of Mr Hancocks fame and expertise.

save your money

[Mu2143]

Posted by iceni tribe (here)
Mu2143

promoting Jonathan Gray at www.beforeus.com ......dont make me laugh ,i fell for that page of his and down loaded his books. they are rubbish and he is just trying to grab a little piece of Mr Hancocks fame and expertise.

save your money

And Where did I say "I Promote "??? and if it makes you laugh then you going belief the lie anyway.

Do you have any clue that history is repeating again and there is list of speakers out there that tell that it is!!! including some one who remembers everything all the way back to LUMERIA 70000 years AGO and SAID its happening AGAIN , just as I have seen in my dreams my past and that of my body(DNA) (I can write a book about it) ignoring that we had nuclear war that ended the previous WORLD that looked similar to this one.

This Video here below IS A LIE, its A JOKE MAJOR Mind Control
Mistery like if My ASS is that mystery that needs to be discovered

Posted by iceni tribe (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SmnnJytYjpM

Amazing Facts About the Pyramids at Giza

Uploaded with Comments by TheUniverseExplorer
September 18, 2011

'The Revelation of the Pyramids,' released on August 22, 2011 by Optimum Home Entertainment claims to finally uncover the truth about the Great Pyramids of Egypt, saying that "After nearly forty years of study and research, the producers of this documentary have at last managed first to understand and then to prove what lies behind one of the greatest archeological mysteries."

This film's director, Patrice Pooyard guides us through some of the world's oldest and most beautiful sites, aided by his anonymous informants and technical specialists. The producers of this film say that it will shake many accepted notions of world history to its core and completely revolutionize the field of Egyptology.

[Mu2143]

O BTW 'The Revelation of the Pyramids,' released on August 22, 2011 by Optimum Home Entertainment that makes me laugh

Entertainment ?????

[iceni tribe]

Posted by Mu2143 (here)
O BTW 'The Revelation of the Pyramids,' released on August 22, 2011 by Optimum Home Entertainment that makes me laugh

Entertainment ?????

yes entertainment , but also highlighting some extraordinary geometric measurements with experts pointing them out.

as for linking to Jonathern Gray that does nothing for your credibility IMO.

however , i would be interested in any links you can provide to verify some of your claims , without the attitude. thanks

[Mu2143]

Posted by iceni tribe (here)

Posted by Mu2143 (here)
O BTW 'The Revelation of the Pyramids,' released on August 22, 2011 by Optimum Home Entertainment that makes me laugh

Entertainment ?????

yes entertainment , but also highlighting some extraordinary geometric measurements with experts pointing them out.

as for linking to Jonathern Gray that does nothing for your credibility IMO.

however , i would be interested in any links you can provide to verify some of your claims , without the attitude. thanks

Nevermind
Here is a link.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/es...ent_atomic.htm

Did you check out the Boriska: Indigo Boy from Mars?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lTAz2Sh6kjw

More here
http://projectcamelot.org/interviews.html

[iceni tribe]

hi Mu2143

sorry i must be missing something ,your 1st link about biblical nuclear wars is relevant to what exactly to this thread.
I have neither seen or read any evidence of a nuclear war in Egypt , unlike the Indus valley.

your second link is again relevant to what in this thread . the Boriska interview is one ive tried to avoid but have now watched half of it (to see if i was missing something) and to be honest would prefer not to comment.

i started this thread in the hope of getting a intelligent discussion going about how on earth 4th dynasty pyramid builders could allegedly have built Egypt's greatest monuments and then for that knowledge to disappear never to be repeated in later dynasties.

nevermind

[Mu2143]

Posted by iceni tribe (here)
hi Mu2143

sorry i must be missing something ,your 1st link about biblical nuclear wars is relevant to what exactly to this thread.
I have neither seen or read any evidence of a nuclear war in Egypt , unlike the Indus valley.

your second link is again relevant to what in this thread . the Boriska interview is one ive tried to avoid but have now watched half of it (to see if i was missing something) and to be honest would prefer not to comment.

i started this thread in the hope of getting a intelligent discussion going about how on earth 4th dynasty pyramid builders could allegedly have built Egypt's greatest monuments and then for that knowledge to disappear never to be repeated in later dynasties.

nevermind

Everything has been set up for the big lie which is feeding us more and more false history the more we are moving forward in the years.

If I want something good I need to search in to the past for example; better technology is in the past not what they release now ,because everything is backwards.
It only looks good and you have to remember there is no such thing called progress that is the Illusion we belief in. ------>Science and technology progress is a religion and religion is mindcontrol <---

So what is the link between the pyramids and the nuclear war ? Egypy was not called Egypte in the past that part was a part of Sumeria like in a country. The same type of program they have been using on us now has been used in the past Worlds (civilization)

Same story more knowledge and in each civilization they build it up to it's peak and then they run the end game program which is also known as "Rising the phoenix out of the ashish" which is a ritual they preform before they implode a civilization like this one to create a NEW WORLD ORDER and get rid of the OLD WORLD ORDER or Dis-Order it is managed by chaos.

But I say BUT ,because this is the last time!So, it won't be the same. But it will look similar to, because the PTB are trying to run the same program again!! (Phoenix rising)

Barack Hussein Obama looks like one of the pharos of Egypte or would I say Sumeria that is another link to it.

Just wanted to add that the word "dynasty " is main stream term used for programming people with a false history and if you follow that then you going to get the false history and not real one. So now your going to have to fill the gap your self. No body is going to deliever the truth on a silver plate it scatterd all over the place.

Bigger picture first detail later

If you start to see the bigger picture your going understand our true history and then you can fill in the missing pieces your self .
I call this program(Yes we live in holographic matrix in time) the Never Ending Story which is what it is and it is going to end

[iceni tribe]

Mu2143

sorry i have no idea at what your trying to convey , first of Sumeria is in southern Iraq and is/was part of Mesopotamia , if i am mistaken please provide some evidence.



now the gist of this thread was to see if anyone had any alternative evidence to refute the claims that these monuments were built in the 4th dynasty , as i find it extraordinary that the some of Egypt's greatest building were built in the old kingdom.

but we have the Palermo stone also known as the Royal Annals of the Old Kingdom of Ancient Egypt. It contains records of the kings of Egypt from the first dynasty through the fifth dynasty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palermo_stone



we have Manetho the greek historian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manetho

and one of my favourites is we have the new edition of Graham Hancocks "fingerprints of the gods" which he quite clearly states that after gaining unrestricted access to the relieving chambers above the king's chamber in the great pyramid and i quote

"under powerful lights i examined the hieroglyphs closely ,and they were so far set back that no forger could possibly have reached in there . and so the only reasonable conclusion is the which orthodox egyptologists had already long held- namely that the hieroglyphs are genuine old kingdom graffiti and they were daubed on the blocks before construction began."

if you have any evidence to the contrary im all ears but im not going to except " you had a dream about it " c'mon.......really

[Sesan]

Posted by Zillah (here)
Hey all - I suggest watching The Pyramid Code - a great film by Dr Carmen Boulter - she dives very deep into the false history, uncovers lies from Egyptologists and debunks much of what has been said about the pyramids - including Seneferu's pyramid, which were NOT failed attempts at all.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list...0&feature=plcp

Yes the Pyramid Code is a great documentary! I have watched it a few times now. It's full of new and challenging ideas! One of the best I seen.

[BestLion]

Posted by Truthseeker512 (here)
4th Dynasty they are not.

Agree! No way in heck did the 3rd dynasty build the 3 Giza pyramids..That takes a lot of faith to believe that nonsense! These people, had bronze tools, little wood, AND NO SLAVES!
Yes this is false history saying these were built by King Kufu as a tomb.
John Anthony West says they were built around 40,000 BC the 2nd precession in the age of Leo "not the Robert Buavall 10,500 BC age of leo)
Either way..they were not built 2,300 BC!

[iceni tribe]

we all get it wrong sometimes Bestlion , this is from Graham Hancock himself

Writing about Outrageous Hypotheses and Extraordinary Possibilities: A View from The Trenches
Trial and error
Bauval, Hancock, and West



Left, Robert Bauval; Centre, Graham Hancock; Right, John Anthony West.

Much attention is focussed on 'mistakes' that Robert, John and I have made.

Of course we've made mistakes! Our theory of a lost civilisation of prehistory and its impact on historical cultures is in its early stages and will require constant refinement, perhaps for years, before all its errors have been eliminated. But does this mean that it would have been better if we hadn't begun to develop the theory in the first place? I don't think so. Does it mean that we should have just sat back and ignored anomalies and puzzles that orthodox historians offer no satisfactory explanations for? Again, I don't think so.

To give a specific example, would it have been better if John West had never become curious about the apparent water-weathering of the Great Sphinx of Giza or if he had never begun to suggest that it might have acquired this profile during the heavy rains of the last Ice Age - thousands of years before the birth of the historical civilisation of Egypt?

Surely only a fool, or a pedant with invincible confidence in the orthodox theory that dates the Sphinx to 2,500 BC, would argue that West should have dropped the matter? Surely it's better to debate such issues freely and to consider all possible lines of inquiry and evidence rather than to rule out a whole range of possibilities at the outset?

Similarly would it have been best if Robert Bauval had simply not noticed the similarity that exists between the pattern of the three stars of Orion's belt -- as viewed looking south from Giza -- and the pattern of the three Great Pyramids of Giza. Or, having noticed it, would it have been better if he had not researched the matter further? Was it in some way irresponsible of him in his book The Orion Mystery to put before the public a very large and compelling body of evidence which suggests that the ground plan cannot possibly be a coincidence? Should he have just kept quiet about this information and not rocked the boat?

I think not. Contrary to their detractors, I believe that the work of West and Bauval has been a powerful force for good. It has stimulated a new spirit of generosity towards the past and a new spirit of enquiry into age-old mysteries. Bogged down in received wisdom and unquestioned assumptions, orthodox historical thinking about the origins of civilisation had become stale, uncreative and boring by the beginning of the 1990's. What would have been the point of continuing along that path, without challenge, just because Professor X and Dr Y said it was so?

So I'm proud to have been part of all this and that my books have put radical alternative ideas about the past before a readership of millions. I repeat and re-emphasise my confident expectation that those of us who have been involved will have made many mistakes in our work! After all, what worthwhile new scientific theory ever comes into existence all at once and fully formed? Most good theories are the result of years of experimentation and trial and error -- with bad hypotheses being abandoned and better ones gradually strengthened. Some of our ideas may be good, therefore, and others not so good -- but its only by putting them forward to be tested and criticised that we can really discover what works and what doesn't, what is strong and what is weak.

My own work is evolving and where I have discovered that I have made mistakes I have said so publicly. I want to give a lengthy example of this here, which followed criticisms in 1998 on the Internet newsgroup Egyptnews -- and elsewhere -- concerning arguments that I had presented in Fingerprints of the Gods and Keeper of Genesis (the latter co-authored with Robert Bauval) about possible 19th century falsification of hieroglyphic graffiti in the so-called 'relieving chambers' above the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid. The criticisms, mainly from a gentleman named Martin Stower, were well-deserved and pointed out fatal errors in my analysis. I responded with the following full retraction which was published on Egyptnews and on many widely-read websites (NB links cited may be out of date):
A Position Statement From Graham Hancock On The Antiquity And Meaning Of The Giza Monuments
22 July 1998

I am the author of "Fingerprints of the Gods" and the co-author (with Robert Bauval) of "Keeper of Genesis" (entitled "The Message of the Sphinx" in the United States).

Before continuing I advise all who are interested in this position statement to read first the critique of my work posted by Martin Stower on his website (http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/~martins/P...kogenesis.html). Please also refer to John Anthony West's open letter to Martin Stower posted on Egyptnews.

Re the 'quarry mark' hieroglyphs in the relieving chambers above the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid, I have rightly been taken to task for uncritically supporting Zecharia Sitchin's forgery theory. I reported this theory in Fingerprints (published 1995) and in Keeper/Message (published 1996).
As an author and researcher I hope that my work will always be 'in progress' and never finished or set in stone. When I come across new evidence that casts doubt on theories that I previously endorsed I am ready to change my views and admit to past mistakes.
As John West kindly reported in his open letter to Stower I have changed my views on the validity of the forgery theory. The relieving chambers are strictly off limits to the public and are extremely difficult to gain access to. I had been unable to obtain permission to visit them prior to the publication of Keeper/Message in 1996. However, in December 1997, Dr Zahi Hawass allowed me to spend an entire day exploring these chambers. There were no restrictions on where I looked and I had ample time to examine the hieroglyphs closely, under powerful lights. Cracks in some of the joints reveal hieroglyphs set far back into the masonry. No 'forger' could possibly have reached in there after the blocks had been set in place - blocks, I should add, that weigh tens of tons each and that are immovably interlinked with one another. The only reasonable conclusion is the one which orthodox Egyptologists have already long held - namely that the hieroglyphs are genuine Old Kingdom graffiti and that they were daubed on the blocks before construction began.
I have stated my view on this matter several times in public lectures during and indeed before 1998. In my September 1998 book "Heaven's Mirror" (with photographer Santha Faiia), and in the accompanying television series "Quest for the Lost Civilization", I likewise make absolutely clear my full acceptance that the Great Pyramid (or at any rate most of it) was built during the Fourth Dynasty.
This is not a sudden conversion. Although I was still open to the erroneous forgery theory while Keeper/Message was being written, I was also very much open to the orthodox theory that the Giza pyramids were Fourth Dynasty work - irrespective of the provenance of the quarry marks. The central thesis of Keeper/Message -- that the Giza monuments were built to commemorate the sky of 10,500 BC -- does not require us to conclude that all the monuments were necessarily built in that epoch. On the contrary I wrote in Keeper/Message that "the Great Pyramid must have some extremely strong connection with the epoch of 2500 BC - the approximate date at which all orthodox Egyptologists and archaeologists in fact believe it to have been built." Earlier, in Fingerprints of the Gods, I suggested that the ground-plan of the Giza monuments might have been devised in 10,500 BC but that the monuments themselves could have been built over an 8000-year period (from 10,500 BC down to 2500 BC). I pointed out that the Great Pyramid's famous star shafts unequivocally link the monument to the epoch of 2500 BC and that the construction levels through which the shafts run might be explained as "the later work of the same long-lived cult that laid out the Giza ground-plan in 10,450 BC.'
Robert Bauval and I have jointly evolved a tentative 'theory of Giza' over the past five years of our work together. Briefly this theory -- which we offer as a serious alternative to the orthodox 'tombs and tombs only' hypothesis -- is that the three great pyramids of Giza, and the Great Sphinx, form a symbolic architectural model of some of the principal stars of the Duat sky-region (through which the Pharaohs believed that their souls would travel after death) as that sky-region appeared at dawn on the spring equinox in the epoch of 10,500 BC. Citing the geological findings of John Anthony West and Robert Schoch, we have argued, and continue to maintain, that the Great Sphinx and its associated megalithic structures may actually have been built in that distant epoch. We have also argued, and continue to maintain, that the three great pyramids in general are likely to be much younger than the Sphinx and that they should probably be assigned to the Fourth Dynasty (rather than to any other period) because of the alignments of the star shafts.
Ultimately, however, our hypothesis does not stand or fall on the precise dates at which individual monuments were built. A symbolic architectural model of the Duat sky region as it last appeared in 10,500 BC could theoretically have been designed in any epoch (I repeat, in any epoch) by any culture possessing a knowledge of the astronomical cycle of precession and of how it alters stellar positions over long periods of time.
In short, we are more interested in why such a model was built than when it was built.
For the record I believe that Khufu did build the Great Pyramid - or anyway most of it (perhaps the subterranean chamber and some other rock-hewn parts of the structure may be earlier).
For the record I do not believe that Khufu built the Pyramid as his tomb. The very fact that his name only appears within the monument in the form of quarry marks accidentally left behind in inaccessible chambers goes to prove that he was not such an ego-maniac. I think that he built it for another purpose altogether - a far loftier and much more mysterious purpose. Further details are provided in my forthcoming book "Heaven's Mirror" (UK and US publication, late September 1998) and in the accompanying TV series 'Quest For The Lost Civilization' (The Learning Chanel, US, August, 1998; Channel 4, UK, September/October 1998).

Graham Hancock
Devon, England, 22 July 1998

source
http://www.grahamhancock.com/features/trenches-p4.htm

[BestLion]

Hi iceni tribe, About Graham Hancock, he is interesting but not a subject matter expert.I knew he did date the Giza pyramids to the reign of Khufu. But that doesnt mean he is an authority on this, and he also even says this. Also he doesnt dismiss Robert Buavalls theory of 10,500 BC. He is a reporter and a writer. He is not and archeologist or egyptologist. he is merely and investigative reporter. I have read most of his books and I enjoy them. I have found the best expert on Egypt to be Mr John Anthony West. He is very good on ancient Egypt and his documentary film was just wonderful one of the best series I ever seen.
Boston University Professor of Geology Robert Schoch’s subsequent dating of the Giza monument to around 7,000 BCE – twice the accepted age – invoked a similar backlash.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dJ1et3l_aFY

[iceni tribe]

hi BestLion

their is some new information available please watch to 2 slide shows here

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...crets-revealed

the second slide show ..the osiris shaft which Robert Temple has had exclusive access to, dates the extrodinary sarcophagus to...........

well actually dont take my word for it please listen to a expert .

both slide shows are superb are will maybe stop a end to the speculation

highest regards