Avalonians: Perfectly "normal" paranoia or something else?

[peace]

I try to stop by this forum at least monthly; sometimes I do, sometimes a few months go by.

I joined, after just watching quitely as a non-member, and a few months BEFORE the atticus/charles hoopla. I considered this place a neat forum to come to and explore. Explore my mind, challenge my thoughts/beliefs, etc.

In my time here I've seen this place be pretty great and pretty god-awful.

But I worry.

I worry about patrons here and the level of paranoia displayed. Without a shred of proof given, bold claims are accepted as fact and not challenged (eg. Bruisch, Wilcock, Collier, Dr. Greer, Icke, etc., etc.). If challenged, the person who challenges is told they are brainwashed by the powers that be and "conditioned," etc.

I'm talking of things such as "doctors don't know what they are talking about," (all medicine is bad) "the gov't monitors everything," (everything????) "the education system is useless," "everything NASA does is a lie," etc. etc. There are too many to site, I'm giving examples and you understand my meaning.

I worry because, again, there hasn't been a stitch of real proof - at all. Just "trust me," and "you'll see," Sometimes, no proof is given at all; just the word of the source.

I worry because I see some of the patrons talking on here and spouting advice or giving information as if it was cold, hard proof of a way to live or a way to think, because "this is how it really is." Prove it.

Its smells to me and I worry people are living in paranoid states that are drastically imbalanced from rational thought. And I say this with a clinical background, (with some degree I'm sure doesn't mean much to some avalonians - doesn't mean much to my bank account either).

There is perfectly normal paranoia we all experience, "Is that person talking about me behind my back?", "Did I leave the door unlocked?" that we have and dismiss throughout the day. But some of this stuff, "The illuminati wants us all dead," seems like a lot. If you are going to say something like that, you should be able to back it up with something tangible, otherwise I think you are doing more harm than good.

Seems that if you don't back it up, you can really hurt the psyche of someone that can't take it. (which can be argued if some of these claims are backed up the psyche is damaged worse!!)

I mean this with respect. Please don't think I'm bashing anyone. It's just something I've watched in my short time here.

I humbly ask for thoughts/opinions.

[Sidney]

My opinion is, we all have formed our idea of reality around our individual personal experiences. If you haven't experienced anything weird than you may not think our reality is warped or scary. Each one of us is exposed to different experiences. That is how [B]I[B base my opions. I have seen enough corruption of authority, up close and personal. And I DON'T TRUST ANYONE because of it. Am I paranoid? IMO, no, I just happen to be privy to things that you may not have witnessed before.

example. I think most people probably didn't either believe in/ or did not care about the exsistence of UFOS, UNTIL they saw one with their own eyes. Same goes with anything else. Seeing IS believing.

[RMorgan]

I agree with you perfectly, my friend.

This is a very important subject that has been discussed many times, but it´s always good to talk about it from time to time.

In my opinion, anyone can make bold claims, promises or predictions, IF such things are accompanied by equally bold evidences and proof.

I can´t even count how many claims/promises/predictions have been posted and discussed here, that haven´t become true. In fact, I can´t remember of any that actually came to happen.

Still, some people continue to believe the perpetrators of such claims.

Now, the ultimate fashion is to make such bold claims disguised as "channeled messages". It´s much better, because, if those claims never happen, the person could not be held responsible and discredited, because, you know, you can´t shoot the messenger.

Besides, there´s no way to even ask for evidence when your claims are the results of a "channeling".

These people are smart, right?

Cheers,

Raf.

[Billy]

My opinion is, To many worries there.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LanCLS_hIo4

Peace

[seantimberwolf]

When i lived in Ireland i made friends with a Russian guy called Dimitri.
As an inquisitive soul i used to ask him about his homeland.
And inevitably i asked about the communist regime.
I asked him "what was it like, are you glad it ended"
I thought i knew about the "reds" regime, the oppression, the slavery, no freedom of thought etc etc.
But what Dimitri told me shocked me.
he said "when it was communist we knew what we was in for, there where not many lies, but with capitalism money is a means to hide secrets and bribe even your family at times"
He told me how there was freedom, and how it was not as extreme as the west made it, that no one wanted for more than they needed.
People worked, for a greater good.
I tried to argue a point against communism, but eventually i realized that i was trying to prove my point on something i knew nothing about.
I decided to agree to disagree, but he said one final thing along the lines of.
I have lived under both and i can tell you I'm more unhappy now that i have to worry about trivial things.

The point is this, we cannot judge other peoples opinions and beliefs because they are ultimately based upon our own.
Lies will always be lies it does not matter weather they are harmless or harmfully.
We HAVE to be vigilant, otherwise this will go too far and we will loose to many good people who really want the truth.

[Borden]

I'm largely with you, and I can't disagree with the list of names you cite, except for Icke. The others you listed? In my opinion? Pah ... but I think Icke is a strenuous and credible researcher. His conclusions are open for debate obviously, but he doesn't just pull all that stuff out of his a** like the others. I don't know if you've read any of his books, but I really wouldn't lump him in with those other people you listed.

I'm completely with you on the 'trust me' brigade. I feel the same. I'm not even bigging up David Icke particularly, I just think he deserves more credit than the Wilcocks of this world. We can disagree on that and it's absolutely cool with me ... I'm just glad to see an infrequent poster speak up as neither a true believer who'll fall for anything or a dyed in the wool naysayer. Maybe you should post here more often!

Borden

[jaybee]

.

I hear you, Peace.....dogmatism and smug know-it-all-ness (exhibited by some)... is one of the down-sides to this forum.

It's like a form of propaganda...IMO....and I think some do it deliberately while others just get a bit carried away?

nice opening post...thanks

[seantimberwolf]

Posted by Borden (here)
I'm largely with you, and I can't disagree with the list of names you cite, except for Icke. The others you listed? In my opinion? Pah ... but I think Icke is a strenuous and credible researcher. His conclusions are open for debate obviously, but he doesn't just pull all that stuff out of his a** like the others. I don't know if you've read any of his books, but I really wouldn't lump him in with those other people you listed.

I'm completely with you on the 'trust me' brigade. I feel the same. I'm not even bigging up David Icke particularly, I just think he deserves more credit than the Wilcocks of this world. We can disagree on that and it's absolutely cool with me ... I'm just glad to see an infrequent poster speak up as neither a true believer who'll fall for anything or a dyed in the wool naysayer. Maybe you should post here more often!

Borden

The problem is Borden that the non Light and Lovers as i call it, are normally trolled to a certain degree
I have tried to post posts like this in the past but was met with almost "aggressive" criticism.
And it makes you feel like that there is no one to connect with but I'm hopping that we can catalyze this type of thread maybe even make these kind of "reality threads"

[xbusymom]

I spent about 2 years exploring this site and then was absent for about a year... only to find that it was still in a variable state of flux and upset...
and the need to direct your own balancing of what you believe/spout should come from your own life-experiences and belief system-


As long as you have the time and are open-minded enough to investigate whatever interests you are curious about on the board- you should have no problem in joining into the many debates...

there have been undercover disinformers discovered, but most people are simply drawn to certain topics that they resonate with and the board is packed with links, stories, articles, etc from all areas of the world. that is a great boon to us in the U.S where we are fed fairy-tales instead of real-life news from the mass media... or to others where the connect-the-dots path flows into other topics that may have possible connections- in either case... we are all just trying to figure out what the *^#^&) is going on in our world and how it relates to our daily lives...

certainly people do get carried away and sometimes that is simply the nature of the journey...

you (anyone) definately should never blindly accept another persons' viewpoint without first testing it out against your own gut feelings or intuition... but just like everything else in life... buyer beware

[peace]

thank you for the reply! but the question remains.

(meant for the poster of the video, sorry - still don't have the posting buttons figured out!!)

[pugwash84]

When you read on any internet forum or read into anything, you have to read with a bit of common sense. xx

[Borden]

Posted by seantimberwolf (here)

Posted by Borden (here)
I'm largely with you, and I can't disagree with the list of names you cite, except for Icke. The others you listed? In my opinion? Pah ... but I think Icke is a strenuous and credible researcher. His conclusions are open for debate obviously, but he doesn't just pull all that stuff out of his a** like the others. I don't know if you've read any of his books, but I really wouldn't lump him in with those other people you listed.

I'm completely with you on the 'trust me' brigade. I feel the same. I'm not even bigging up David Icke particularly, I just think he deserves more credit than the Wilcocks of this world. We can disagree on that and it's absolutely cool with me ... I'm just glad to see an infrequent poster speak up as neither a true believer who'll fall for anything or a dyed in the wool naysayer. Maybe you should post here more often!

Borden

The problem is Borden that the non Light and Lovers as i call it, are normally trolled to a certain degree
I have tried to post posts like this in the past but was met with almost "aggressive" criticism.
And it makes you feel like that there is no one to connect with but I'm hopping that we can catalyze this type of thread maybe even make these kind of "reality threads"

You and me both, Sean!

Love and light is one thing, if genuine a wonderful thing I'm sure ... but in my view it's a slimy veneer often, and to see it in a slightly fascistic form here is both terrifying and hilarious. I don't know if you saw my 'con-artists' thread, but I think I actually got off pretty lightly there! There are plenty of intelligent people here as you know, and I hate the thought that there have to be separate 'camps', but it seems almost inevitable. I don't want to see peace or people like him/her (sorry, don't know!) put off, and he/she obviously has been to an extent.

If you start something and people troll you come and get me ... (said in best Gurney Halleck voice, young Paul!). This is as much our forum as it is theirs. Bill Ryan doesn't strike me as an idiot, even if I think he's been taken in before. Even the intelligent can be taken in if they are genuinely looking for the truth. If it's not Harkonnens it's Bene Gesserit witches or Mentats, and then there are the Tleilaxu to consider ... things get complicated!

(Sorry peace if you're not a 'Dune' fan.) Please keep posting. I'm glad you're speaking up.

Borden

[seantimberwolf]

Posted by Borden (here)

Posted by seantimberwolf (here)

Posted by Borden (here)
I'm largely with you, and I can't disagree with the list of names you cite, except for Icke. The others you listed? In my opinion? Pah ... but I think Icke is a strenuous and credible researcher. His conclusions are open for debate obviously, but he doesn't just pull all that stuff out of his a** like the others. I don't know if you've read any of his books, but I really wouldn't lump him in with those other people you listed.

I'm completely with you on the 'trust me' brigade. I feel the same. I'm not even bigging up David Icke particularly, I just think he deserves more credit than the Wilcocks of this world. We can disagree on that and it's absolutely cool with me ... I'm just glad to see an infrequent poster speak up as neither a true believer who'll fall for anything or a dyed in the wool naysayer. Maybe you should post here more often!

Borden

The problem is Borden that the non Light and Lovers as i call it, are normally trolled to a certain degree
I have tried to post posts like this in the past but was met with almost "aggressive" criticism.
And it makes you feel like that there is no one to connect with but I'm hopping that we can catalyze this type of thread maybe even make these kind of "reality threads"

You and me both, Sean!

Love and light is one thing, if genuine a wonderful thing I'm sure ... but in my view it's a slimy veneer often, and to see it in a slightly fascistic form here is both terrifying and hilarious. I don't know if you saw my 'con-artists' thread, but I think I actually got off pretty lightly there! There are plenty of intelligent people here as you know, and I hate the thought that there have to be separate 'camps', but it seems almost inevitable. I don't want to see peace or people like him/her (sorry, don't know!) put off, and he/she obviously has been to an extent.

If you start something and people troll you come and get me ... (said in best Gurney Halleck voice, young Paul!). This is as much our forum as it is theirs. Bill Ryan doesn't strike me as an idiot, even if I think he's been taken in before. Even the intelligent can be taken in if they are genuinely looking for the truth. If it's not Harkonnens it's Bene Gesserit witches or Mentats, and then there are the Tleilaxu to consider ... things get complicated!

(Sorry peace if you're not a 'Dune' fan.) Please keep posting. I'm glad you're speaking up.

Borden

Indeed Borden,
For us fellow Fremin it is hard, our warrior spirit can intimidate others of a softer nature.
I agree L.A.L is fantastic if it genuinely is real and meant.
But it is used as a clicky term, and for us who find it hard to love those who fool us for financial gain (enter Bill Wood), we are not invited.
But i think after this Bill Wood thing people are going to be coming into our caves asking how to use a stillsuit

[peace]

I think liking Dune is a forum requirement for membership!

I guess my main point is; there are some, what I would call, unhealthy things said/acted upon/talked about at this forum that don't seem to have any basis in the real world, as I know it. I'm open-minded, and consider myself at least somehwhat, "awake," etc. but don't seem to have these same perceptions/outlooks.

I have had, what I think one would call "paranormal" experiences. I have seen things in the night sky that defy explanation. Doesn't mean there isn't one. Doesn't mean what the gov't or television or science tells me isn't the explination, also doesn't mean any of us/them are right.

... Probably why I'm at avalon in the first place.

But with a healthy skepticism.

And if someone trolls me ... ha. Well. I'll treat them like the children they are.

[Borden]

Good to hear from someone who won't be intimidated!

No! (Cringe) ... I think that might be just me and Sean, sorry, haha. We recently discovered we were fellow Dune fans, and we may have gone overboard on your thread! Sorry. But by God ... if I find out you're a Mentat ...

I'll shut up now, i apologise.

Yes, I understand and agree, but me and Sean talking silly wasn't a part of that, I'm sorry. This place seems more and more to be a roosting place for the witless and credulous, and believe me when I say I measure my words. I can be silly, frivolous, irreverent ... but I never forget why I came here in the first place. You're not being treated in a light hearted manner, and I'm sorry if I accidentally gave that impression. And like I said to Sean (who I'm sure doesn't really need my support any more than you do) ... if we're fighting trolls, let's do it back to back , my friend! I welcome them. Let's flush this toilet.

Borden

[Bollinger]

Posted by peace (here)
I try to stop by this forum at least monthly; sometimes I do, sometimes a few months go by.

I joined, after just watching quitely as a non-member, and a few months BEFORE the atticus/charles hoopla. I considered this place a neat forum to come to and explore. Explore my mind, challenge my thoughts/beliefs, etc.

In my time here I've seen this place be pretty great and pretty god-awful.

But I worry.

I worry about patrons here and the level of paranoia displayed. Without a shred of proof given, bold claims are accepted as fact and not challenged (eg. Bruisch, Wilcock, Collier, Dr. Greer, Icke, etc., etc.). If challenged, the person who challenges is told they are brainwashed by the powers that be and "conditioned," etc.

I'm talking of things such as "doctors don't know what they are talking about," (all medicine is bad) "the gov't monitors everything," (everything????) "the education system is useless," "everything NASA does is a lie," etc. etc. There are too many to site, I'm giving examples and you understand my meaning.

I worry because, again, there hasn't been a stitch of real proof - at all. Just "trust me," and "you'll see," Sometimes, no proof is given at all; just the word of the source.

I worry because I see some of the patrons talking on here and spouting advice or giving information as if it was cold, hard proof of a way to live or a way to think, because "this is how it really is." Prove it.

Its smells to me and I worry people are living in paranoid states that are drastically imbalanced from rational thought. And I say this with a clinical background, (with some degree I'm sure doesn't mean much to some avalonians - doesn't mean much to my bank account either).

There is perfectly normal paranoia we all experience, "Is that person talking about me behind my back?", "Did I leave the door unlocked?" that we have and dismiss throughout the day. But some of this stuff, "The illuminati wants us all dead," seems like a lot. If you are going to say something like that, you should be able to back it up with something tangible, otherwise I think you are doing more harm than good.

Seems that if you don't back it up, you can really hurt the psyche of someone that can't take it. (which can be argued if some of these claims are backed up the psyche is damaged worse!!)

I mean this with respect. Please don't think I'm bashing anyone. It's just something I've watched in my short time here.

I humbly ask for thoughts/opinions.

Well said. But it will fall on deaf ears. The weight of opinion here is simply against the sentiments you convey because a very large majority of what is asserted on this forum is offered to us to accept or reject by using, what is affectionately knows as “discernment”. I have struggled to understand how that is supposed to work. Other than seeing how you “feel” about a person or the information, (and people genuinely do put a lot of emphasis and trust on it), I don’t see what else discernment is supposed to give us. It most certainly isn't proof of anything.

Everything seems to be driven by how things “resonate” with the individual. In short, what that means is people with similar beliefs will have no trouble agreeing with each other and rather than a den of valuable information, the forum becomes a therapy session for like minded people exchanging strange and weird things that happen to them.

As a result, we end up with faith in things based on trusting someone we admire and respect, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether the information comes directly or by proxy.

If you claim to know incredible things because you have access to insider information or some other celestial source, you may easily perch yourself on Avalon and there would be 50 approvals stamped all across your post in the first 10 minutes of having submitted it. Do you suppose those people scurried away to look for proof of what you claimed and having found it, couldn’t wait to press the thank you button? Alas, a rhetorical question.

And if you do find yourself drowning in endless claims for which there is absolutely no base or foundation and dare to ask for proof, well I’m afraid you simply don’t get it. That’s old school. You must have the power to instantly know things without proof. If you lack this power, those in possession of it cannot help you. Of course, what people fail to realise is that such a position lends itself perfectly to any group of individuals who subscribe to any one the many religions out there, mainstream or otherwise.

Do we really need another religion? Whether it is creating your own reality or praying to Allah or sacrificing your life for Jesus? So much spirituality, so much good intention and yet a world with so little to show for it; isn’t that the most horrendous paradox?

[seantimberwolf]

Posted by Bollinger (here)

Posted by peace (here)
I try to stop by this forum at least monthly; sometimes I do, sometimes a few months go by.

I joined, after just watching quitely as a non-member, and a few months BEFORE the atticus/charles hoopla. I considered this place a neat forum to come to and explore. Explore my mind, challenge my thoughts/beliefs, etc.

In my time here I've seen this place be pretty great and pretty god-awful.

But I worry.

I worry about patrons here and the level of paranoia displayed. Without a shred of proof given, bold claims are accepted as fact and not challenged (eg. Bruisch, Wilcock, Collier, Dr. Greer, Icke, etc., etc.). If challenged, the person who challenges is told they are brainwashed by the powers that be and "conditioned," etc.

I'm talking of things such as "doctors don't know what they are talking about," (all medicine is bad) "the gov't monitors everything," (everything????) "the education system is useless," "everything NASA does is a lie," etc. etc. There are too many to site, I'm giving examples and you understand my meaning.

I worry because, again, there hasn't been a stitch of real proof - at all. Just "trust me," and "you'll see," Sometimes, no proof is given at all; just the word of the source.

I worry because I see some of the patrons talking on here and spouting advice or giving information as if it was cold, hard proof of a way to live or a way to think, because "this is how it really is." Prove it.

Its smells to me and I worry people are living in paranoid states that are drastically imbalanced from rational thought. And I say this with a clinical background, (with some degree I'm sure doesn't mean much to some avalonians - doesn't mean much to my bank account either).

There is perfectly normal paranoia we all experience, "Is that person talking about me behind my back?", "Did I leave the door unlocked?" that we have and dismiss throughout the day. But some of this stuff, "The illuminati wants us all dead," seems like a lot. If you are going to say something like that, you should be able to back it up with something tangible, otherwise I think you are doing more harm than good.

Seems that if you don't back it up, you can really hurt the psyche of someone that can't take it. (which can be argued if some of these claims are backed up the psyche is damaged worse!!)

I mean this with respect. Please don't think I'm bashing anyone. It's just something I've watched in my short time here.

I humbly ask for thoughts/opinions.

Well said. But it will fall on deaf ears. The weight of opinion here is simply against the sentiments you convey because a very large majority of what is asserted on this forum is offered to us to accept or reject by using, what is affectionately knows as “discernment”. I have struggled to understand how that is supposed to work. Other than seeing how you “feel” about a person or the information, (and people genuinely do put a lot of emphasis and trust on it), I don’t see what else discernment is supposed to give us. It most certainly isn't proof of anything.

Everything seems to be driven by how things “resonate” with the individual. In short, what that means is people with similar beliefs will have no trouble agreeing with each other and rather than a den of valuable information, the forum becomes a therapy session for like minded people exchanging strange and weird things that happen to them.

As a result, we end up with faith in things based on trusting someone we admire and respect, and it doesn’t seem to matter whether the information comes directly or by proxy.

If you claim to know incredible things because you have access to insider information or some other celestial source, you may easily perch yourself on Avalon and there would be 50 approvals stamped all across your post in the first 10 minutes of having submitted it. Do you suppose those people scurried away to look for proof of what you claimed and having found it, couldn’t wait to press the thank you button? Alas, a rhetorical question.

And if you do find yourself drowning in endless claims for which there is absolutely no base or foundation and dare to ask for proof, well I’m afraid you simply don’t get it. That’s old school. You must have the power to instantly know things without proof. If you lack this power, those in possession of it cannot help you. Of course, what people fail to realise is that such a position lends itself perfectly to any group of individuals who subscribe to any one the many religions out there, mainstream or otherwise.

Do we really need another religion? Whether it is creating your own reality or praying to Allah or sacrificing your life for Jesus? So much spirituality, so much good intention and yet a world with so little to show for it; isn’t that the most horrendous paradox?

Quite right friend i do also feel that sometimes this forum is exhibiting many traits of religion.
People make many decisions on faith, respect, and resonance.
Which like you said is a generic terminology for people who have similar views.
Me personnel i believe it is used to hide from truth and as a way of avoiding asking obvious questions about source material.
For instance if someone comes onto this site and posts a long thread about being channeled by some spirit being from the Paledies.
Anyone who likes the idea of this Utopian world that the person speaks of and tells us is "upon us" then people "resonate" with it, but what there really doing is fooling themselves into believing it instead of asking questions first.
And it can become annoying to be in the minority of those who don't resonate with this nonsense (sorry personnel opinion)

SeanTW

[anthony]

Posted by Borden (here)
I'm largely with you, and I can't disagree with the list of names you cite, except for Icke. The others you listed? In my opinion? Pah ... but I think Icke is a strenuous and credible researcher. His conclusions are open for debate obviously, but he doesn't just pull all that stuff out of his a** like the others. I don't know if you've read any of his books, but I really wouldn't lump him in with those other people you listed.

I'm completely with you on the 'trust me' brigade. I feel the same. I'm not even bigging up David Icke particularly, I just think he deserves more credit than the Wilcocks of this world. We can disagree on that and it's absolutely cool with me ... I'm just glad to see an infrequent poster speak up as neither a true believer who'll fall for anything or a dyed in the wool naysayer. Maybe you should post here more often!

Borden

Hiya dude, respect yurr comments.
I read wilcocks 'source field investigations' book over the christmas period, its loaded with scientific data and references to the scientists and the researches etc. i admire his work as i do with david ickes work too.

[seantimberwolf]

Also I'm sorry for Hijacking your post Peace with DUNE references, as Borden said we recently discovered that we are DUNE fans and its a small club not many people like it.
But I'm sure you do,
But i will say its surprising the amount of similarities between DUNE and this situation and the whole thing in general.
Food for thought
Or maybe Spice for thought
Okay ill stop now, so sorry,

SeanTW

[Borden]

Posted by anthony (here)

Posted by Borden (here)
I'm largely with you, and I can't disagree with the list of names you cite, except for Icke. The others you listed? In my opinion? Pah ... but I think Icke is a strenuous and credible researcher. His conclusions are open for debate obviously, but he doesn't just pull all that stuff out of his a** like the others. I don't know if you've read any of his books, but I really wouldn't lump him in with those other people you listed.

I'm completely with you on the 'trust me' brigade. I feel the same. I'm not even bigging up David Icke particularly, I just think he deserves more credit than the Wilcocks of this world. We can disagree on that and it's absolutely cool with me ... I'm just glad to see an infrequent poster speak up as neither a true believer who'll fall for anything or a dyed in the wool naysayer. Maybe you should post here more often!

Borden

Hiya dude, respect yurr comments.
I read wilcocks 'source field investigations' book over the christmas period, its loaded with scientific data and references to the scientists and the researches etc. i admire his work as i do with david ickes work too.

Look, a big part of what speaks to me is my intuition. That is not a flaky, arbitrary, make-it-up-as-you-go-along thing. When coupled with an understanding of human psychology (as it certainly is with me) ... one man's valid researcher is another man's leering little hobgoblin after your coin. Don't get me started on Wilcock. I know exactly what I see when I see him talk and hear his voice. That will have to remain in the arena of my personal opinion though ... however ludicrous and unjust that seems to me.

Intuition aside, there's a big difference between a person honestly presenting his research and slimily milking people. I can't prove anything and neither can you. I know what my gut, my intelligence and my heart tell me. I respect you mate for posting the way you did, but I can't honestly stand here and say "oh, maybe you're right about David Wilcock". I firmly believe you're not. Sorry. No offense meant. Slag Icke to me, I will honestly listen, I swear. I'm prepared to be proved right or wrong, so long as my understanding advances, I mean it.

Best wishes,

Borden