Grow your own — Food Self-sufficiency for you

[Carmen]

Great thread, useful and practical. I am storing fresh water in old wine barrels. Mms will be used to rid them of any nasties. I am fortunate in being an ex vinyard owner so have barrels available but they are available in wine making areas as barrels can only be reused a couple of times.

Lord Sid, you have obviously experienced some harrowing outback experiences from the comments of your posts! As far as water goes in a dry land, there is no better advice than permaculture offers for conservation of water. Heavy mulching of growing things helps considerably in conserving water. Also contouring and humping and hollowing. The more trees we plant, the more moisture we attract. There is a great video I watched on a thread the other day that was so inspiring. I'm pffto find it now. (or soon!)

Other way of conservation of food is to stop wasting it. The amount of food that people throw out, especially young people, is mind boggling! Maybe a bit of hunger would stop this nonsense! What is wrong with your nose to check a use by date. Works for me.

Thank you Seikou Kishi, a great thread.

Okay, I found it. It's called greening the desert and it is post nineteen of ulli's I love this, thread. It's well worth watching. Sorry I can't get it up for you. Maybe some helpful soul here will do it.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Carmen (here)
Great thread, useful and practical. I am storing fresh water in old wine barrels. Mms will be used to rid them of any nasties. I am fortunate in being an ex vinyard owner so have barrels available but they are available in wine making areas as barrels can only be reused a couple of times.

Lord Sid, you have obviously experienced some harrowing outback experiences from the comments of your posts! As far as water goes in a dry land, there is no better advice than permaculture offers for conservation of water. Heavy mulching of growing things helps considerably in conserving water. Also contouring and humping and hollowing. The more trees we plant, the more moisture we attract. There is a great video I watched on a thread the other day that was so inspiring. I'm pffto find it now. (or soon!)

Other way of conservation of food is to stop wasting it. The amount of food that people throw out, especially young people, is mind boggling! Maybe a bit of hunger would stop this nonsense! What is wrong with your nose to check a use by date. Works for me.

Thank you Seikou Kishi, a great thread.

Okay, I found it. It's called greening the desert and it is post nineteen of ulli's I love this, thread. It's well worth watching. Sorry I can't get it up for you. Maybe some helpful soul here will do it.

Yeah, I have suffered heat exhaustion in the bush on a few occasions.
One occasion resulted in a neck injury that I still have.

[Carmen]

Hmm, I could feel you going back there in you mind and reliving it!! Maybe it's best to 'make home' somewhere safe and not to be traveling. In Aussie I would be doing what they do in Coober Peedi (spelling!!) and going underground. Safe from bush fires. I don't know why people in Aussie, especially in high fire risk areas,don't build underground. Any comments on this from other Aussies?

[Muzz]

Here’s an excellent example of what can be accomplished with a year round greenhouse in cold weather climate. This particular greenhouse is in Colorado which is cold for much of the year, but inside this cozy dome greenhouse, the plants are growing happily.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hAX0A6yfb0k

[nottelling]

Posted by Carmen (here)
Hmm, I could feel you going back there in you mind and reliving it!! Maybe it's best to 'make home' somewhere safe and not to be traveling. In Aussie I would be doing what they do in Coober Peedi (spelling!!) and going underground. Safe from bush fires. I don't know why people in Aussie, especially in high fire risk areas,don't build underground. Any comments on this from other Aussies?

It's not feasible to build underground in many of the populated areas of Australia - see the recent Brisbane floods for more information. Also, there seems to be a long-standing official disdain for it. An interesting case from the 19th century comes to mind immediately -

Source: http://www.broadfordhistorical.org.au/photo-gallery/

“Henricke Neslen came to Australia in 1861 and was not long in the colony before he began to live a secret life in Victoria’s Tallarook ranges. There he built a secret underground dwelling and this mountain hideaway became his home for more than a decade. If he had chosen to, he could have been employed on any of the stations, or at the railway, tannery, paper or flour mills, he could have lived in Tallarook and gained work there – the record shows that he was a capable man. But instead he chose a secret, solitary life unnoticed by anyone on the plains below.

In 1880 his underground abode was discovered and Nelsen was arrested. Upon investigation, the authorities found he possessed ‘every item necessary for a well-kept home’ including one or two books in English, a torn Bible, and, nearby in a deep cave a well-stocked larder. Nelsen denies living there, but the evidence found on site was overwhelming and included a dated train timetable with his name on it. Nelsen was charged with vagrancy and sentenced to six months’ hard labour.”

Keep in mind that this was the same timeframe and same area where people were allowed to happily live in slab huts in the middle of nowhere all around Victorian ranges. Strange.

But despite any lingering official disdain for living underground in Australia due to fears of "clandestine marijuana setups" or "survivalist bunkers", it does make good sense. Underground dwellings are warm in winter and cool in summer, due to the excellent insulation provided by mother earth. They are bushfire resistant. So long as the design is well drained, they don't suffer groundwater incursion. They are low-profile which makes them an excellent choice of dwelling to maximise the natural beauty of an area and with appropriate thought and design they can be the centrepiece of a comfortable and functional eco-friendly, off-grid home.

Here's one which was advertised for sale in South Australia a couple of years back:



http://www.realestateview.com.au/Rea...2009705_S.html

I'd definitely live in that.

So long as they meet official building standards, there shouldn't be too many legislative or regulatory problems building an earth-mounded or underground home in Australia, but there ight be some bias against it by the local council.

Personally I like some of the design concepts in the "$50 and Up Underground Dwelling" by Mike Oehler (http://www.undergroundhousing.com/index.html)

EDIT: I found a document which details planning/specifications in Australia. It was written specifically for Coober Pedy (which are usually tunnelled underground structures), but the specs it contains conform to Australian building standards, making it useful for someone who wants to build an earth mounded structure as well.

http://www.cooberpedy.sa.gov.au/webd...d_17July07.pdf

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Seikou- I think you mean lady bugs...

No no, I definitely meant ladybirds, but it's nice of you to translate me for those who don't speak English ;-)

[Calz]

Free to view for two more days ... of interest to this thread:

http://foodmatters.tv/screeningeventcinema

[Arrowwind]

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Seikou- I think you mean lady bugs...

No no, I definitely meant ladybirds, but it's nice of you to translate me for those who don't speak English ;-)

Well you certainly did mean Ladybirds, but here in the USA they are called Ladybugs... as I just found out there are two popular names depending on where you live. We have so many this year that I have them in my house too!
Still, how to get them onto the infested plant in sufficient quantity? I spent a few days moving ladybirds onto the plants but it was never enough. For infestations the soap worked really well. But I have no doubt that they do help quite a bit generally keeping the aphid population down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccinellidae

[Arrowwind]

Posted by Muzz (here)
Here’s an excellent example of what can be accomplished with a year round greenhouse in cold weather climate. This particular greenhouse is in Colorado which is cold for much of the year, but inside this cozy dome greenhouse, the plants are growing happily.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hAX0A6yfb0k

We are now looking at building a green house. My husband, who is an architect, built a couple of geo. greenhouses a long time ago back in Eugene. Now he is not that interested in it now and Im trying to pick his brain as to why. I love the feeling of these kinds of structures!

Part of it may have to do with cost. Certainly the greenhouse in this video cost a fair amount to put together.
We live at 6,000 feet also... as I just found out... I had been thinking we were at 6,500

They seem to grow year round in this model but I wonder if they go for weeks on end at 20 below zero like we do here?
We are in a particularly cold and windy valley between two mountain ranges and cloud cover can go on for days as storms go through.

So our plan is a rectangular greenhouse,, about 10 x 16 and we have a fair amount of building scraps around from the construction of our house so that eliminates some cost, as it is already pain for. Our back north wall will be insulated and solid and lined with 55 gallon black water drums that have already acquired. There will be a solid roof covering about 3/4 of the ceiling. We will use the same kind of polycarbonate plastic for windows. I think in the long run it will be as efficient as possible for our weather conditions... just dont think we will be able to grow anything in Dec, Jan, Feb and half of March... We could heat it like our neighbors do but what they pay for heating their green house just doesn't pencil out. They gotta be loosing money and you just cant grow enought stuff nor market enough stuff around here to make it pay. ...

I wonder how a 16 foot diameter geo greenhouse would function... compared to what he is currently thinking.

That geo green house is a dream come true! for someone...

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Seikou- I think you mean lady bugs...

No no, I definitely meant ladybirds, but it's nice of you to translate me for those who don't speak English ;-)

Well you certainly did mean Ladybirds, but here in the USA they are called Ladybugs... as I just found out there are two popular names depending on where you live. We have so many this year that I have them in my house too!
Still, how to get them onto the infested plant in sufficient quantity? I spent a few days moving ladybirds onto the plants but it was never enough. For infestations the soap worked really well. But I have no doubt that they do help quite a bit generally keeping the aphid population down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccinellidae

I read (on the page you link, actually) that entomologists prefer not to call them ladybugs because they're not bugs, but I'd say they're certainly not birds either :D

[Cjay]

Recommended video of Bill Mollison, one of the originators of permaculture.

In Grave Danger of Falling Food Part 1

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OGc2OMzD1lg

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OGc2OMzD1lg

In Grave Danger of Falling Food Part 2

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=t_HO8qmAeSA

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=t_HO8qmAeSA

In Grave Danger of Falling Food Part 3

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TbAznelIUaM

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TbAznelIUaM

In Grave Danger of Falling Food Part 4

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Iv0LRyFrdiQ

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Iv0LRyFrdiQ

[Arrowwind]

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
[I read (on the page you link, actually) that entomologists prefer not to call them ladybugs because they're not bugs, but I'd say they're certainly not birds either :D

They're not bugs? Well I'll be danged.

[nearing]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
[I read (on the page you link, actually) that entomologists prefer not to call them ladybugs because they're not bugs, but I'd say they're certainly not birds either :D

They're not bugs? Well I'll be danged.

Where I come from all insects are bugs. It's just slang. It doesn't mean they necessarily 'bug' us (though al lot do!). And ladybugs/birds are certainly insects.

[Calz]

UDDERLY RIDICULOUS



Judge: Americans do not have right to choose food
Decision in farm dispute bars families from drinking milk from their own cows

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 06, 2011
12:50 am Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2011 WND

A Wisconsin judge has decided – in a fight over families' access to milk from cows they own – that Americans "do not have a fundamental right to consume the milk from their own cow."

The ruling comes from Circuit Court Judge Patrick J. Fiedler in a court battle involving a number of families who owned their own cows, but boarded them on a single farm.

The judge said the arrangement is a "dairy farm" and, therefore, is subject to the rules and regulations of the state of Wisconsin.

"It's always a surprise when a judge says you don't have the fundamental right to consume the foods of your choice," said Pete Kennedy, president of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, which worked on the case on behalf of the farmers and the owners of the milk-producing cows.

The judge's original ruling came in a consolidation of two cases that presented similar situations: Cows being maintained and milked on farms for the benefit of non-resident owners. He refused to grant a summary judgment declaring such arrangements legitimate, deciding instead to favor the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection, which opposed them.

(Story continues below)

"Plaintiffs argue that they have a fundamental right to possess, use and enjoy their property and therefore have a fundamental right to own a cow, or a heard (sic) of cows, and to use their cow(s) in a manner that does not cause harm to third parties. They argue that they have a fundamental right to privacy to consume the food of their choice for themselves and their families and therefore have a fundamental right to consume unpasteurized milk from their cows," the judge wrote.

Bunk, he concluded.

"They do not simply own a cow that they board at a farm. Instead, plaintiffs operate a dairy farm. If plaintiffs want to continue to operate their dairy farm then they must do so in a way that complies with the laws of Wisconsin."

He cited an earlier consent decree involving one of the farm locations, which had been accused of being the source of a "Campylobachter jejuni infection" and said there are state reasons to require standards and licenses.

Identifying the cases as the "Grassway plaintiffs" and the "Zinniker plaintiffs," the judge said both were in violation of state rules and regulations.

It was, however, when the plaintiffs petitioned the judge for a "clarification" of his order that he let fly his judicial temperament.

"The court denied plaintiffs' motion for summary judgment, which means the following:


"(1) no, plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to own and use a dairy cow or a diary (sic) herd;
"(2) no, plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to consume the milk from their own cow;
"(3) no, plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to board their cow at the farm of a farmer;
"(4) no, the Zinniker plaintiffs' private contract does not fall outside the scope of the state's police power;
"(5) no, plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice; and
"(6) no, the DATCP did not act in an ultra vires manner because it had jurisdiction to regulate the Zinniker plaintiffs' conduct."
"It is clear from their motion to clarify that the plaintiffs still fail to recognize that they are not merely attempting to enforce their 'right' to own a cow and board it at a farm. Instead, plaintiffs operate a dairy farm," he wrote.

Kennedy said the ruling is outlandish.

"Here you have a situation where a group of people, a couple of individuals, boarded their cows which they wholly owned, with Zinniker farms, and paid them a fee for the boarding."

He continued, "The judge said people have no fundamental right to acquire, possess and use your own property."

The dispute is part of a larger battle going on between private interests and state and federal regulators over just exactly who makes the decision on the difference between a privately held asset and a commercial producer.

The Los Angeles Times recently profiled a case in which prosecutors had arrested the owner of a health food market and two others on charges of allegedly illegally producing unpasteurized dairy products.

The arrests of James Cecil Stewart, Sharon Ann Palmer and Eugenie Bloch just a few weeks ago advanced the government's crackdown on the sale of so-called raw dairy products.

But Fiedler's arguments weren't unique.

Attorneys for the federal government have argued in a lawsuit still pending in federal court in Iowa that individuals have no "fundamental right" to obtain their food of choice.

The brief was filed early in 2010 in support of a motion to dismiss a lawsuit filed by the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund over the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's ban on the interstate sale of raw milk.

"There is no 'deeply rooted' historical tradition of unfettered access to foods of all kinds," states the document signed by U.S. Attorney Stephanie Rose, assistant Martha Fagg and Roger Gural, trial attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice.

"Plaintiffs' assertion of a 'fundamental right to their own bodily and physical health, which includes what foods they do and do not choose to consume for themselves and their families' is similarly unavailing because plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to obtain any food they wish," the government has argued.

WND has reported several times on fed crackdowns on producers of raw milk for friends and neighbors, including when agents arrived to inspect a private property belonging to Dan Allgyer in Pennsylvania at 5 a.m.

The Iowa case alleges the federal restrictions on raw milk are a violation of the U.S. Constitution, according to a report at Natural News.

The federal attorneys want the case dismissed.

"The interest claimed by plaintiffs could be framed more narrowly as a right to 'provide themselves and their families with the foods of their own choice,'" the government document states. But the attorneys say that right doesn't exist.

"The FDA essentially believes that nobody has the right to choose what to eat or drink," said the Natural News site, which explains it covers topics that allow individuals to make positive changes in their health, environmental sensitivity and consumer choices.

"You are only 'allowed' to eat or drink what the FDA gives you permission to. There is no inherent right or God-given right to consume any foods from nature without the FDA's consent."

The Natural News report continued, "The state, in other words, may override your food decisions and deny you free access to the foods and beverages you wish to consume. And the state may do this for completely unscientific reasons – even just political reasons – all at their whim."

The report blames the aggressive campaign against raw milk on large commercial dairy interests, "because it threatens the commercial milk business."

The reason cannot be safety, the report said, since a report from the Weston A. Price Foundation revealed that from 1980 to 2005 there were 10 times more illnesses from pasteurized milk than from raw milk.

The federal government attorneys say the FDA's goal is to prevent disease, and that's why the "ban on the interstate sale of unpasteurized milk" was adopted.

The attorneys conceded that states ordinarily are expected to regulate intrastate activity but noted, "it is within HHS's authority … to institute an intrastate ban as well."

Natural News reported the ban could be seen as violating the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which leaves to states all powers not specifically designated in the Constitution for the federal body.

Read more: Judge: Americans have no right to choose food http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=352249#ixzz1aCcDBwVs

[nottelling]

OMG... no, OMFG!

I'm stunned, shocked, flabbergasted. If the families in question lawfully (lol) own their cows, then decide to lawfully (lol) drink the milk from those cows, that is "not a fundamental right"? Somebody remove these clowns. Fair dinkum - that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Corporatism influencing the legislature and the judiciary, regardless of how covert or indirect that influence may be? Bureaucracy gone stupid? ...And all because they want everyone to drink their milk from the same source? I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but there's something a little off here - by off, I mean like a bucket of prawns in the hot sun.

Codex ailementarycanalus (whatever) in pure, vivid, living colour.

[Calz]

Posted by nottelling (here)
OMG... no, OMFG!

I'm stunned, shocked, flabbergasted. If the families in question lawfully (lol) own their cows, then decide to lawfully (lol) drink the milk from those cows, that is "not a fundamental right"? Somebody remove these clowns. Fair dinkum - that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Corporatism influencing the legislature and the judiciary, regardless of how covert or indirect that influence may be? Bureaucracy gone stupid? ...And all because they want everyone to drink their milk from the same source? I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but there's something a little off here - by off, I mean like a bucket of prawns in the hot sun.

Codex ailementarycanalus (whatever) in pure, vivid, living colour.

Takes things another step beyond *selling* fresh cows milk ...

[Dawn]

I LOVE this thread! I'd like to include some info on underground solar greenhouses. Although I don't have my own at the moment I've been studying this plan and it is really efficient... and workable in very cold climates. The author developed it based on the food storage cave his local gophers created near his garden. Here's the link:

http://www.undergroundhousing.com/greenhouse_book.html

And here is a video tour of his original design:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-hV8Teiskfo

[Dawn]

Here is a really interesting idea for a basement or insulated room without light. You can grow plants in total darkness with a metal rod connected to a metal sheet somewhere in the sunlight. In fact, if the plants growing in total darkness are too close to the metal rod they will 'sunburn'! This could be a potential solution to really cold climates or apartment dwellers who have no space with sunlight to grow plants. No electricity is required;

http://rexresearch.com/agro2/0agro1.htm#elxplntgrowth

[Flash]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Anyone going to start doing this I would suggest that they study what they want to grow, how it would fit into their local ecosystem and what that crop needs in the way of water etc.

Thank you for reminding us. Everytimes I see a thread like this one, I have a tendency not to read it because most of the suggestions are for warm or temperate climates and are not relevant in a very cold climate.

What I would like to find is how to make small greenhouses in basements for example to start seeds growing and how to plant earlier in the season to avoid the seeds to freeze. And how to heat the whole stuff without any gaz or oil.

Finally, may be how to handle a rifle to be able to hunt.......lol, rifles are forbidden in Canada unless you are a registered hunter, and it takes time to get the permit.

[Strat]

This may be offtopic, but I don't want to start a new thread for this. Here is my second broccoli harvest so far (maybe the last, I'll know in a week or so):

2nd Harvest

Here is what a broccoli looks like when it is getting ready to flower. See the bulbs/heads separating? Maybe next week it will flower. I purposely left it so that I could show this to you folks.