Buddhism in a nutshell.

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

And I want to add that worshipping is just fear in disguise. LOL

Couldn't agree more...but what is the relevance of that statement when discussing Buddhism?

I added that to Bollingers post #11 as Its relevant in relation to
every religous or spirital systems, including Buddhism.


Jorr

In what way is worship relevant to Buddhism? What is it that you say is being worshipped?

UT is full of Buddhist worship rituals, take a look.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8D3YI3D7bRU

Jorr

[Tarka the Duck]

Thanks Jorr - never heard of them! Do you have a link? All I get it a blogspot with no info at all.


How would you explain the role of worship in a philosophy that states, as a core principle:

The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.

Buddhism is not a system of faith, where there is any worship of a supernatural being
Confidence is based on knowledge, not belief.

[jorr lundstrom]

Kathie, try this, press the little youtube button in the lower right corner
of the video I posted. It will take you to those regions of youtube.

I know, thats wot you state has been the case in Buddhism. Im not
so sure its really the case anymore. Ive thhrough my life been
enormously fascinated of the old well known Zenmasters totally
unpredictable behaviour. LOL


Jorr

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
Kathie, try this, press the little youtube button in the lower left corner
of the video I posted. It will take you to those regions of youtube.

I know, thats wot you state has been the case in Buddhism. Im not
so sure its really the case anymore. Ive thhrough my life been
enormously fascinated of the old well known Zenmasters totally
unpredictable behaviour. LOL


Jorr

Ha! That explains it! I'm on an iPad and can't see the video...will check it on the laptop later.

I think, unfortunately, you could be right in that things are changing and a huge distortion is in danger of taking place.
I don't wish to slight an entire nation, but much of this does seem to originate from the US ( as does much that is of benefit, of course ) There is a perversion of core teachings going on...what the motivation is, I can't be sure...whether it is a calculated, deliberate perversion, a quest for fame and money, or part of a misguided but well-meaning attempt to "spread the word" I don't know.
But it was said, centuries ago, that the teaching can only be destroyed from within.

So - to be clear - do you agree that worship is not a behaviour that is part of Buddhist philosophy?!

[Tony]

Posted by Bollinger (here)
On the question of spirituality, while it is commendable that people have good intentions when exhaling their rhetoric upon us, we have to be weary of where it actually stands.

Time and time again we find that people would very much like this thing we call life to have some meaning. Our faith in this idea is constantly being tested by reality which we so often forget or ignore? Can we not see that all life, almost without exception, ends in miserable failure? What meaning should we attach to a the life of an 8 year old being snuffed out by a stray bullet or the baby that is so deformed at birth that it fails to live beyond the third month?

All religions, without exception and that includes Buddhism, are stooped in what is commonly referred to as spiritual teaching culminated over many years of history. To its devoted followers, it is intended to bring calm and resolution to life’s problems through anointed individuals and scripture accompanied by undertakings such as prayer or meditation. Why? Will this deep human desire to extol inordinate admiration upon gurus and gods never end? It seems not. So many times I hear the words “you have to let go”. Does anyone actually know what that means? If it means breaking out of the shell and being free, surely that must include the shackles placed upon us by religion. How can you break free if you hold firm that any religion is worth following? We are tangled in contradiction, are we not?

If I walk into a monastery or church or any holy place of worship, I too am immediately taken by the peace and the calm it bears upon me. Large echoing walls, strong arches, high ceilings, beautiful paintings, intricate décor, colourful solemn displays with statues and grim looking sculptures; who could fail to succumb to its obvious charm? Everyone bows with solemnity and for one brief moment, we might actually forget that while our souls are being entertained by the angels, in the same instant, others are being taken away in the most abject manner imaginable. If you can reconcile those two realities, your path to follow a religion is wide and open.

Those of us lucky enough to live in warm comfortable houses with gardens and lily ponds often forget the millions who are paying so dearly for coming to this world. Why? Because we are busy trying to achieve enlightenment.

Sorry Tony, I know you are a follower of Buddhism, but to me it is simply another religion and traces more or less the same contour one expects to find; namely the belief that thinking or acting in a certain way will magically heal or cure the individual or even the world of all its ills. No, I’m afraid this world is one that thrives on toil and graft. Here, not only is there no such thing as a free lunch but we are often forced to pay over the odds for even a modest meal.

If there is a guiding hand that is responsible for all this, I hope to be furnished with a damn good reason for it when the time comes.

Dear Bollinger,

What is sad is my inability to explain properly. Maybe our mind-sets are just different.
I'll have to go along a route of analysis to find out where you are coming from.

We only know that things are happening outside of our bodies, because we experience these things through the five senses. But the senses are only a vehicle that conveys messages to the mind. So things are actually experienced in the mind. The impressions or thoughts in the mind create emotions about what it sees.

Can we agree on that?

There are injustices and selfishness in the world, because sentient beings are selfish!

Can we agree on that?

The ideas we hold in the mind are acquired by the world that we live in.
Do you have an original thought in your mind?

Thoughts and emotions are temporary events in the mind, they are not the final observer of these thoughts. There is an observer of thoughts and emotions.

Can we agree on that?

We can get confused about this relationship, and believe the acquisition of thoughts are us.
We become learned, and that is how we evolve.

Can we agree that this is possible?

If we take this route, then an “I” is developed. So this 'me' is a created evolved thing, developed from the acquisition of ideas about itself and the world it lives in. It can function and judge very well, and is knows how to survive. All creatures learn this way.

Can we agree on that?

When this developed creature uses judgements, it uses likes and dislikes. Some have stronger likes and dislikes and exert power over others. This creates much suffering. It is governed by, I do not like this, I like that. We as sentient beings all do this. So this world is maintained by perpetual attraction and repulsion. We strive to thrive and are partial.

Can we agree on that?

Can we agree that everyone is suffering, meaning not happy....not happy all the time?
Can we agree that people do not expect to be happy all the time, as it is not reasonable?

So we put up with this life as it is, and there are no answers. Can we agree that that seems to be the status quo? So we continue being angry, hatred, frustration, fearful, have pride and jealousy.
In fact be governed by our emotions, so we cannot control ourselves. Which allows others to control us.

Doesn't sound like fun does it?
Can we agree on that?

What if there was a way(s) of getting free from this constant bickering and anger?
Can we agree that it would be worthwhile looking at?
Can we agree that truth and religion are not the same thing?

For a thing to be true, it has to be true forever. Meaning if a thing truly exists, it has to constantly exist. It can never not be....and it has to be provable.

Can we agree on that?

So everything that is a of temporary nature, does not truly exist. It comes and then goes. It seems to exist in this moment, but if one closed one's eyes for a ten thousand years and then opened them, that thing would be dust. I'm only exaggerating time as we do not normally notice changes from moment to moment.

(I once try to paint a harbour scene, and it was always wrong ….then I noticed the tide was going out!)

Can we agree that anything of a temporary nature, has no absolute reality?
Can we also agree that this doesn't bother us much, as we think that is how things are?

What if we have missed something!

Everything that appears to the mind (including religions) is merely a temporary event in the mind, seen by an ultimate observer, and that this ultimate observer did not change. Here is the proof:
What looks out of your eyes now and when you were very young...has never changed!

Spiritual practice is merely taking one step back to realise that that ultimate observer is pure awareness.

We may not agree on that, because that takes practice, but in practice it is provable, or known.

Does this change the world about us? No! But our understanding of how beings cling to ideas about themselves and the world about them, gives one an understanding of why people suffer and fear everything. They are all clinging to maintain their existence, and therefore they suffer, and create suffering for others.

To expect the world and the universe to be perfect is a non starter...as it is perfect already.
We just see it through a certain 'mind set'. If we see through a mindset that the seemingly real world as real, we will relate to it in one away. If we see the real world as the only reality we will see it another way. Combining the two would be perfect.

You may not agree, can we agree on that?

In this world if someone puts a bullet into a child's head, what are you going to do about it?
What are you going to ban? A moment of dislike is a moment of hatred.
Where does one draw the line? One can only draw the line in ones own mind.

That leads to the question..letting go of what? Means letting go of the ideas and emotions about what one sees in the mind. Then maybe we can see more clearly. Then of course the question arises...so we do nothing!? One does what one can, depending on our skill, capacity and compassion. To try and do more than our capacity will bring about heart ache. Daily I pray for more inspiration and power to help all sentient beings. This is more than wishful thinking, the changes in inspiration have been mind blowing!


Written with as much logical compassion as can be mustered.
Can we agree on that?

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
Kathie, try this, press the little youtube button in the lower left corner
of the video I posted. It will take you to those regions of youtube.

I know, thats wot you state has been the case in Buddhism. Im not
so sure its really the case anymore. Ive thhrough my life been
enormously fascinated of the old well known Zenmasters totally
unpredictable behaviour. LOL


Jorr

Ha! That explains it! I'm on an iPad and can't see the video...will check it on the laptop later.

I think, unfortunately, you could be right in that things are changing and a huge distortion is in danger of taking place.
I don't wish to slight an entire nation, but much of this does seem to originate from the US ( as does much that is of benefit, of course ) There is a perversion of core teachings going on...what the motivation is, I can't be sure...whether it is a calculated, deliberate perversion, a quest for fame and money, or part of a misguided but well-meaning attempt to "spread the word" I don't know.
But it was said, centuries ago, that the teaching can only be destroyed from within.

So - to be clear - do you agree that worship is not a behaviour that is part of Buddhist philosophy?!

Yes, I agree, it has no place in Buddhism. And there are no place for
worshipping anything at all at large. If anyone or any entity wants to
be worshipped, take care. LOL

[Tony]

The problem with the word worship, is that could mask the meaning of supplication.
This is a personal choice. I may wish to have compassion, but I know it is only a selfish drop.
So I supplicate to Chenrezig the embodiment ultimate compassion. This is not worship, it is
a psychological event in my mind to enhance and remind me that dealing everything with
compassion is the only way. But one must not try to misunderstand compassion.

The practice of compassion is the outcome of practice.

[Tony]

For some realising our ultimate nature is not possible at this very moment.
So we have to rely on aspiration and inspiration. So for some merely being
near or in a spiritual setup helps.

We are all at different capacities, so work from where we are. There seems
no point in criticising others way of working.

Of course there are those that live in a fantasy, an imaginary world, a paranoid
world, and do not want to be here. So they long for somewhere different...a holiday!

But it is here that we have to face, dare I say it ...our own fears.
To know thy self, is to know what is not thy self.
This takes guts...to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or by opposing end them.


If we think we are victims, we will become aggressors.

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by Bollinger (here)

Those of us lucky enough to live in warm comfortable houses with gardens and lily ponds often forget the millions who are paying so dearly for coming to this world. Why? Because we are busy trying to achieve enlightenment.

Hello Bollinger! I'm on my way out, and so haven't got time to address your whole post...but this leapt out at me.

Spiritual work and community work are not mutually exclusive. Just because someone decides to focus attention inwardly doesn't mean they can't also be of benefit in the outer world.
Many become interested in Buddhism as one of the primary teachings relates to suffering and its causes. They are already concerned with the suffering in this world, and are already involved in helping others in a practical way. They don't drop all that and go and sit in a lovely, peaceful meditation room for the rest of their lives!
All the groups of Tibetan Buddhists I have been involved with in Nepal - and talking of suffering, they have experienced, and are still experiencing their fair share through the invasion of the Chinese - have set up and are running community projects: free clinics, schools, training projects, elderly care etc.

[The One]

As your faith is strengthened you will find that there is no longer the need to have a sense of control, that things will flow as they will, and that you will flow with them, to your great delight and benefit. In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by The One (here)
As your faith is strengthened you will find that there is no longer the need to have a sense of control, that things will flow as they will, and that you will flow with them, to your great delight and benefit. In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't

Hello The One
For you, what is faith? Faith in what?

[The One]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Posted by The One (here)
As your faith is strengthened you will find that there is no longer the need to have a sense of control, that things will flow as they will, and that you will flow with them, to your great delight and benefit. In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't

Hello The One
For you, what is faith? Faith in what?

Hello

For me faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof.Consists in believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe

[Tarka the Duck]

@ Bollinger

Time and time again we find that people would very much like this thing we call life to have some meaning.

Maybe it is more productive to ask, “What is it to live a meaningful life?”

All religions, without exception and that includes Buddhism, are stooped in what is commonly referred to as spiritual teaching culminated over many years of history. To its devoted followers, it is intended to bring calm and resolution to life’s problems through anointed individuals and scripture accompanied by undertakings such as prayer or meditation. Why? Will this deep human desire to extol inordinate admiration upon gurus and gods never end? It seems not. So many times I hear the words “you have to let go”. Does anyone actually know what that means? If it means breaking out of the shell and being free, surely that must include the shackles placed upon us by religion. How can you break free if you hold firm that any religion is worth following? We are tangled in contradiction, are we not?

Without wishing to sound rude, it seems from your post that you don't have a very deep understanding of what Buddhism is about...would that be true? Phrases such as "extolling inordinate admiration upon gods" doesn't apply to the Buddhism I practice.
As for “letting go”: there is no one easy, glib answer to that. It partly depends on the school or tradition, and also on the individual's own self-examination. Possible answers will include ceasing to hold on to the idea of things as they should be, or of our own self-interest, or of our habitual patterns...

If I walk into a monastery or church or any holy place of worship, I too am immediately taken by the peace and the calm it bears upon me. Large echoing walls, strong arches, high ceilings, beautiful paintings, intricate décor, colourful solemn displays with statues and grim looking sculptures; who could fail to succumb to its obvious charm? Everyone bows with solemnity and for one brief moment, we might actually forget that while our souls are being entertained by the angels, in the same instant, others are being taken away in the most abject manner imaginable. If you can reconcile those two realities, your path to follow a religion is wide and open.

The two realities you refer to here sound a little like the two truths of Buddhism – the relative, conventional world and the absolute world. The way in which we perceive reality, and the way it actually is.

Sorry Tony, I know you are a follower of Buddhism, but to me it is simply another religion and traces more or less the same contour one expects to find; namely the belief that thinking or acting in a certain way will magically heal or cure the individual or even the world of all its ills.

Nope. There is no such promise! I don't know who said this but : “Being happy doesn’t mean that everything is perfect. It means you’ve decided to look beyond the imperfections.”

Buddhism is not escaping reality; Buddhism is about understanding reality.

Some schools of Buddhism advocate withdrawing from the world. Others bring the emotions such as desire, and anger onto the path, not rejecting anything.

No, I’m afraid this world is one that thrives on toil and graft. Here, not only is there no such thing as a free lunch but we are often forced to pay over the odds for even a modest meal.

What is this free lunch you are talking about? Are you implying that wishing to follow a spiritual path is a cop out? A form of escapism?

There is no magic; it is about commitment, effort and time, like everything else. And like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. Putting it crudely, Buddhism is a set of guidelines, by which one isn't told the truth; one is told how one can find it for oneself. It is about experience, not dogma.

If there is a guiding hand that is responsible for all this, I hope to be furnished with a damn good reason for it when the time comes.

For Buddhists, there is no guiding hand...

I'm sorry, but I just can't quite get to grips with what your problem really is...it sounds as if you are wanting to place responsibility for the evils of the world at the feet of a philosophy known as Buddhism...!

[giovonni]

Great thread Tony ...

i break out of my shell now and then ... but just can't seem to totally part with it

[shijo]

In Nichiren's Buddhism belief and faith play a strong part,through practise its possible to realise the entity of ones own life and the lives of others,the Buddha nature inherant in all composite phenomena. Its got nothing to do with anything outside of our own being.

[firstlook]

I think Buddhist is just someone who can talk there way out of any situation. If they see a rock they think is alarming, they talk to that rock until they feel it has no harmful intentions. Really, Buddhists are just really slick talkers who will talk to anyone and anything.

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by firstlook (here)
I think Buddhist is just someone who can talk there way out of any situation. If they see a rock they think is alarming, they talk to that rock until they feel it has no harmful intentions. Really, Buddhists are just really slick talkers who will talk to anyone and anything.

Having never met an alarming rock, I'm grateful that I haven't had to talk to it...
I dream of being a slick talker

Seriously, what are you talking about??!!

[Tony]

Posted by firstlook (here)
I think Buddhist is just someone who can talk there way out of any situation. If they see a rock they think is alarming, they talk to that rock until they feel it has no harmful intentions. Really, Buddhists are just really slick talkers who will talk to anyone and anything.

Hello Firstlook,

I entirely agree with you. The amount of study, research, analysing and practice they do is truly amazing. They question everything until there IS nothing left. Anyone that does that has to be out of their mind....nuts!

[Tony]

Posted by The One (here)

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Posted by The One (here)
As your faith is strengthened you will find that there is no longer the need to have a sense of control, that things will flow as they will, and that you will flow with them, to your great delight and benefit. In faith there is enough light for those who want to believe and enough shadows to blind those who don't

Hello The One
For you, what is faith? Faith in what?

Hello

For me faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof.Consists in believing when it is beyond the power of reason to believe

Hello The One,

For me faith is that 5% one just cannot know, but trust....lets go.
The other 75% is provable, and 20% is inference.

It cannot all be laid out on a plate, we have to do some chewing, tasting, digesting and swallowing. This usually take care of pride!.... swallow the pride.

[firstlook]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Posted by firstlook (here)
I think Buddhist is just someone who can talk there way out of any situation. If they see a rock they think is alarming, they talk to that rock until they feel it has no harmful intentions. Really, Buddhists are just really slick talkers who will talk to anyone and anything.

Having never met an alarming rock, I'm grateful that I haven't had to talk to it...
I dream of being a slick talker

Seriously, what are you talking about??!!

Adapt or die. Fear of the Unknown. I think there for I exist.

Its all the same unless you want it to be different.

Buddhism. Its just a word.

About? Anything you want in order for both of us to feel free and full of love.

Aww nuts.

Respond.