Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[RunningDeer]

Hi Greybeard, thanks for the brief Q&A quotes from Nasargadatta Maharaj. My powers of concentration for words on a page seems to be waning these days. Just watching to see where it leads. Paula

[Jenci]

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
I wonder when people decided that
we are real and the physical universe not. ROFLOL

Now that is a great question, Jorr!!

I'll have to get back to you with the answer though, lol
Jeanette

[Jenci]

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
Hi Greybeard, thanks for the brief Q&A quotes from Nasargadatta Maharaj. My powers of concentration for words on a page seems to be waning these days. Just watching to see where it leads. Paula

I have put all my spiritual books down Paula. It's just happened. Who knows, I may pick them up again.

I am not doing this any more

Jeanette

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
Hi Greybeard, thanks for the brief Q&A quotes from Nasargadatta Maharaj. My powers of concentration for words on a page seems to be waning these days. Just watching to see where it leads. Paula

I have put all my spiritual books down Paula. It's just happened. Who knows, I may pick them up again.

I am not doing this any more

Jeanette

Oh, Jeanette, it’s good to hear that I am not alone. A couple of years ago, I tossed out about 95% of my books and DVD’s. I realized that they were crutches that prevented me from “coming into being”; whatever that was/is. And if I didn’t know it by now then, it’s not mine to know. Freeing and nutty at the same time. I went through a phase that if I couldn’t explain things in one sentence then it wasn’t worth my holding on to it. I do have I’ve an iPad now and download books. Recently, the one book I replaced to actually hold and reference is, “Consciousness and the Absolute: The final talks of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj,” by Jean Dunn. Though, it still sits untouched.

It seems that these days, the “I” has gone for a nap. I marvel at the years, years and years of powers of concentration, tenacity, thought, I had/have. It’s like there’s two subsets of me that overlap now. It's my sense that this is the route for me. I'm trying to bring the knowledge base into the concrete world. But have found I'm spending too much time there. Almost like it may be time for an intervention.

What I need to do is carve out some time just for free flow reflection; that feeds me - it's my vitamins and air. The "but” is that I'm not doing it. My new goal is to be spontaneous, to listen to the direction and then take action. I'm trusting in this brand new person. It’s working just fine. Though, ego is working quietly behind the scenes, whispering, "Change, the unknown is not our friend."

Thanks and Peace,
Paula

[jorr lundstrom]

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
Hi Greybeard, thanks for the brief Q&A quotes from Nasargadatta Maharaj. My powers of concentration for words on a page seems to be waning these days. Just watching to see where it leads. Paula

I have put all my spiritual books down Paula. It's just happened. Who knows, I may pick them up again.

I am not doing this any more

Jeanette

Oh, Jeanette, it’s good to hear that I am not alone. A couple of years ago, I tossed out about 95% of my books and DVD’s. I realized that they were crutches that prevented me from “coming into being”; whatever that was/is. And if I didn’t know it by now then, it’s not mine to know. Freeing and nutty at the same time. I went through a phase that if I couldn’t explain things in one sentence then it wasn’t worth my holding on to it. I do have I’ve an iPad now and download books. Recently, the one book I replaced to actually hold and reference is, “Consciousness and the Absolute: The final talks of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj,” by Jean Dunn. Though, it still sits untouched.

It seems that these days, the “I” has gone for a nap. I marvel at the years, years and years of powers of concentration, tenacity, thought, I had/have. It’s like there’s two subsets of me that overlap now. It's my sense that this is the route for me. I'm trying to bring the knowledge base into the concrete world. But have found I'm spending too much time there. Almost like it may be time for an intervention.

What I need to do is carve out some time just for free flow reflection; that feeds me - it's my vitamins and air. The "but” is that I'm not doing it. My new goal is to be spontaneous, to listen to the direction and then take action. I'm trusting in this brand new person. It’s working just fine. Though, ego is working quietly behind the scenes, whispering, "Change, the unknown is not our friend."

Thanks and Peace,
Paula

LOL The first book I read by Jeddu Krishnamurti was,

Freedom from the known.


Jorr

[greybeard]

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
Hi Greybeard, thanks for the brief Q&A quotes from Nasargadatta Maharaj. My powers of concentration for words on a page seems to be waning these days. Just watching to see where it leads. Paula

I have put all my spiritual books down Paula. It's just happened. Who knows, I may pick them up again.

I am not doing this any more

Jeanette

Oh, Jeanette, it’s good to hear that I am not alone. A couple of years ago, I tossed out about 95% of my books and DVD’s. I realized that they were crutches that prevented me from “coming into being”; whatever that was/is. And if I didn’t know it by now then, it’s not mine to know. Freeing and nutty at the same time. I went through a phase that if I couldn’t explain things in one sentence then it wasn’t worth my holding on to it. I do have I’ve an iPad now and download books. Recently, the one book I replaced to actually hold and reference is, “Consciousness and the Absolute: The final talks of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj,” by Jean Dunn. Though, it still sits untouched.

It seems that these days, the “I” has gone for a nap. I marvel at the years, years and years of powers of concentration, tenacity, thought, I had/have. It’s like there’s two subsets of me that overlap now. It's my sense that this is the route for me. I'm trying to bring the knowledge base into the concrete world. But have found I'm spending too much time there. Almost like it may be time for an intervention.

What I need to do is carve out some time just for free flow reflection; that feeds me - it's my vitamins and air. The "but” is that I'm not doing it. My new goal is to be spontaneous, to listen to the direction and then take action. I'm trusting in this brand new person. It’s working just fine. Though, ego is working quietly behind the scenes, whispering, "Change, the unknown is not our friend."

Thanks and Peace,
Paula

Hi Guys
For quite a while reading and listening stopped all by itself and THEN!!!!
Nasargadatta revisited thanks to "Another Bob"
I just ordered "Consciousness and the Absolute" see what youve done Paula.
I dont mind as KM said.
I really appreciate all recent contributions Jeanette Jorr and Paula. (and all who contribute here)
Please keep it coming.

Chris

[RunningDeer]

Embarrassed by all the post I went on and on about. They don't even fit. Thank you for your patience.

[RunningDeer]

Embarrassed by all the post I went on and on about. They don't even fit. Thank you for your patience.

[Jenci]

The window is the absence of the wall and gives air and light because it is empty. Be empty of all mental content, of all imagination and effort, and the very absence of obstacles will cause reality to rush in.

I Am That - p249 - Nisargatta

[another bob]

Posted by Jenci (here)

The window is the absence of the wall and gives air and light because it is empty. Be empty of all mental content, of all imagination and effort, and the very absence of obstacles will cause reality to rush in.

I Am That - p249 - Nisargatta

I’ve heard it said that
there is a window that opens
from one mind to another.

But if there are no walls,
there is no need for a window.

Rumi

[TargeT]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Hi Guys
For quite a while reading and listening stopped all by itself and THEN!!!!
Nasargadatta revisited thanks to "Another Bob"
I just ordered "Consciousness and the Absolute" see what youve done Paula.
I dont mind as KM said.
I really appreciate all recent contributions Jeanette Jorr and Paula. (and all who contribute here)
Please keep it coming.

Chris

Since you started this monstrosity (and its 1,500+ posts) and are probably familiar with most of its contents.... any chance you could condense a "best of" post with the most pertinent lessons listed at the "end" here? I tried to wade through the 79 pages, but didn't get farther than 8 before skipping to the end.

this is a great topic but this thread (unless you've kept up with it since day one, or have a enough free time on your hands to read through it... I am functioning like WhiteCrowBlackDeer currently... I buy books but do not read them, I can't bring myself to anymore, not sure why; perhaps it is a side effect of the "small bites" you get on the interwebz)

hopefully this isn't too much to ask, Thanks!

[greybeard]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Hi Guys
For quite a while reading and listening stopped all by itself and THEN!!!!
Nasargadatta revisited thanks to "Another Bob"
I just ordered "Consciousness and the Absolute" see what youve done Paula.
I dont mind as KM said.
I really appreciate all recent contributions Jeanette Jorr and Paula. (and all who contribute here)
Please keep it coming.

Chris

Since you started this monstrosity (and its 1,500+ posts) and are probably familiar with most of its contents.... any chance you could condense a "best of" post with the most pertinent lessons listed at the "end" here? I tried to wade through the 79 pages, but didn't get farther than 8 before skipping to the end.

this is a great topic but this thread (unless you've kept up with it since day one, or have a enough free time on your hands to read through it... I am functioning like WhiteCrowBlackDeer currently... I buy books but do not read them, I can't bring myself to anymore, not sure why; perhaps it is a side effect of the "small bites" you get on the interwebz)

hopefully this isn't too much to ask, Thanks!

First Targe T congratulations on getting to page 8-- that in itself is to your credit.

I would be hard pressed to sum it up for various reasons.
It is the journey of my and others spiritual evolution.
What was believed back then was and is valid to various levels of understanding.
What is believed now has moved on from page one.
Some great videos on the thread--- its worthwhile just scanning the thread pages to find a video that calls out to be viewed.
Personal
The belief in a loving God is strong.
The belief is that I am not the body.
I am eternal.
I am a wave of the Divine Ocean.
I no longer identify with the me story in my head.
I dont have to be right any longer.
Fear is negligible.


Hope that helps.
Some friends may want to say what the thread means to them/ sum it up.

Regards Chris

[another bob]

Posted by TargeT (here)
any chance you could condense a "best of" post with the most pertinent lessons listed at the "end" here?

1. Let go of what has passed.

2. Let go of what may come.

3. Let go of what is happening now.

4. Don't try to figure anything out.

5. Don't try to make anything happen.

6. Relax, right now, and rest.

~Tilopa

[TargeT]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Personal
1 The belief in a loving God is strong.
2 The belief is that I am not the body.
3 I am eternal.
4 I am a wave of the Divine Ocean.
5 I no longer identify with the me story in my head.
6 I dont have to be right any longer.
7 Fear is negligible.


Hope that helps.
Some friends may want to say what the thread means to them/ sum it up.

Regards Chris

Ok, so

#1 I'm going to discount as your personal belief & maybe an item of comfort but not (IMO) relevant to ego & "dealing" with it (If I'm some how off base let me know)

2 I'm definitely good with

3 & 4... I guess 3 I am coming to grips with 4 seems tied to 1 (slightly) though also a repetition of 3?

5 This helped me greatly, I've noticed of late my internal monologue has fallen silent (mostly) and when it doesn't I use an exercise someone showed me, I ask myself "what is my next thought" and I sit and wait for it... Apparently this works because the Ego cannot function "NOW" it can only live in the past or project the past on the future.

6 I'm still working with but coming to understanding that perspective is key and my "fact" is only based on my perspective and not an absolute in any sense (though I still search for what I feel is an absolute truth in topics, perhaps this is ego related as well?.. that "need" to be "right"?)

7 absolutely! I came to this conclusion through self challenging & my deployment.

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)
any chance you could condense a "best of" post with the most pertinent lessons listed at the "end" here?

1. Let go of what has passed.

2. Let go of what may come.

3. Let go of what is happening now.

4. Don't try to figure anything out.

5. Don't try to make anything happen.

6. Relax, right now, and rest.

~Tilopa

1 & 2 seem pretty clear as this is the essence of Ego ( or at least where it functions)

3 not sure I understand, just relax and experience what is happening? or try to not control it?

5 -- I have a problem with this (sorta) as I see myself as a quasi-actionable person, someone who can make things happen.. is this ego asserting control (or attempting to frame my perception that way)?

6. I feel very peaceful and relaxed when I stop and realize that I'm being "me" right now, and there is silence in my head (inner monologue has given up on me I think.. I used to have arguments in my head which I'm pretty sure was just my ego trying desperately to convince myself that it is me.. now even those are gone (mostly..)) but for some reason I feel drawn to action to "doing something" and relaxing and resting, i don't know..

Thanks for the responses, it helps me refine my ideas and focus on where/what I need to work on

[another bob]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)
any chance you could condense a "best of" post with the most pertinent lessons listed at the "end" here?

1. Let go of what has passed.

2. Let go of what may come.

3. Let go of what is happening now.

4. Don't try to figure anything out.

5. Don't try to make anything happen.

6. Relax, right now, and rest.

~Tilopa

1 & 2 seem pretty clear as this is the essence of Ego ( or at least where it functions)

3 not sure I understand, just relax and experience what is happening? or try to not control it?

Just don't try to grasp or avoid whatever is appearing now, whether it is pleasurable or not. Just let it be as it is, and let yourself be as you are.

5 -- I have a problem with this (sorta) as I see myself as a quasi-actionable person, someone who can make things happen.. is this ego asserting control (or attempting to frame my perception that way)?

What happens when you take the "you" out of the equation, that self-sense? It is not the end of the action, of happening, just the elimination of that which obstructs pure functioning.

6. I feel very peaceful and relaxed when I stop and realize that I'm being "me" right now, and there is silence in my head (inner monologue has given up on me I think.. I used to have arguments in my head which I'm pretty sure was just my ego trying desperately to convince myself that it is me.. now even those are gone (mostly..)) but for some reason I feel drawn to action to "doing something" and relaxing and resting, i don't know..

Not knowing is the best place to be, because then the possibilities are limitless. The known is limitation. The unknown is where all the free folk hang out and play!

[greybeard]

Hi Targe T
In a way no 1 is the key. (for me)
When im aware of the ego taking over I surrender the juice I get from being superior/judgmental or whatever to God.
Also Ramesh Baleskar said "God gave you an ego let Him remove it"
So humility plays a part in this as I dont have the spiritual power to transcend the ego.
The spiritual ego cant remove the ego at least not without Divine help.

Regards Chris

Ps no self no problem
so when the ego (small self) is removed, awareness is all that is left.

[Jenci]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Hi Guys
For quite a while reading and listening stopped all by itself and THEN!!!!
Nasargadatta revisited thanks to "Another Bob"
I just ordered "Consciousness and the Absolute" see what youve done Paula.
I dont mind as KM said.
I really appreciate all recent contributions Jeanette Jorr and Paula. (and all who contribute here)
Please keep it coming.

Chris

Since you started this monstrosity (and its 1,500+ posts) and are probably familiar with most of its contents.... any chance you could condense a "best of" post with the most pertinent lessons listed at the "end" here? I tried to wade through the 79 pages, but didn't get farther than 8 before skipping to the end.

this is a great topic but this thread (unless you've kept up with it since day one, or have a enough free time on your hands to read through it... I am functioning like WhiteCrowBlackDeer currently... I buy books but do not read them, I can't bring myself to anymore, not sure why; perhaps it is a side effect of the "small bites" you get on the interwebz)

hopefully this isn't too much to ask, Thanks!

Hi TargeT.

We are talking about transcending the ego in this thread. What is the ego? It helps if we can see it first. Our ego is the sense of separate self. It's the thing that says that I am Jeanette, I am a person, this is me, this is my body, I exist as this.

This is the separate self, separate from the real Self, which I will use a capital S for here to denote that I am talking about the Big One. Some people also refer to this real Self as Consciousness, Awareness, the Absolute, God, Oneness, Nothingness, Emptiness, Eternal, Higher Self etc.....lots of words can be used.

This sense of separate self, our ego, is also our mind because all these thoughts that we are this person, in my case Jeanette, and not the real Self, come from our minds.

So lets say the ego is the mind and our minds are usually a constant stream of thoughts all our waking hours. So to transcend the ego, we are going to transcend the mind.

In other words we are going to go beyond the mind.

The ego/mind does not think that there is anything beyond it. It believes that it is the person who is existing but this is not true. One way to go beyond the mind is to quieten it, so it is not thinking and in the silence we can find the real Self; a sense of existence without thinking we exist (mind/ego).

This is the purpose of meditation to quieten the mind/ego to reach this realisation.

Some mind/egos are more active than others and some minds may not be quietened with meditation and can actually become more active in the process.... but there is another way.

Pay attention to the mind. Just take some time to watch it and notice what it does. Watch a stream of thoughts as they come and go. Don't try to do anything about it and don't label or judge what is going on, just let it do its thing.

When you get a sense of your mind doing its thing, then ask the question, "What is aware of the mind?

At this point the mind may try to answer the question. Mind/egos like to work things out. But the answer to this question is not in the mind's understanding.

So let the mind try to struggle to find the answer but don't concern yourself with the individual thoughts that it is generating. Just be aware of what it is doing.

Be like a parent watching a child play with toys. The parent watches the child, not the toys being played with.
Watch the mind thinking but not the thoughts.

If you can see or be aware of your mind and its thoughts, then something must be Aware which is NOT the mind. So now ask the question again "what is aware of my mind" and try shifting your attention around onto what is aware or watching.

This shift in attention can be very subtle and at first you may only get a split second of insight into what it is that is Aware before the mind/ego drags the attention back onto it. If you pay attention you will be able to see what the mind is doing in its struggle. If you are aware of this, then something is prior to the mind. This is Awareness or the real Self.

Experiencing as this Awareness, rather than the mind/ego is a bit like a muscle, it needs to be worked and the more it is worked, the more natural it becomes.

There is more to this transcendence of the ego but this is a good place to start where you get a sense of what your ego/mind is and what your Awareness is.


Jeanette

[TargeT]

Posted by Jenci (here)
ask the question, "What is aware of the mind?

At this point the mind may try to answer the question. Mind/egos like to work things out. But the answer to this question is not in the mind's understanding.

So let the mind try to struggle to find the answer but don't concern yourself with the individual thoughts that it is generating. Just be aware of what it is doing.

Be like a parent watching a child play with toys. The parent watches the child, not the toys being played with.
Watch the mind thinking but not the thoughts.

If you can see or be aware of your mind and its thoughts, then something must be Aware which is NOT the mind. So now ask the question again "what is aware of my mind" and try shifting your attention around onto what is aware or watching.

This shift in attention can be very subtle and at first you may only get a split second of insight into what it is that is Aware before the mind/ego drags the attention back onto it. If you pay attention you will be able to see what the mind is doing in its struggle. If you are aware of this, then something is prior to the mind. This is Awareness or the real Self.

Experiencing as this Awareness, rather than the mind/ego is a bit like a muscle, it needs to be worked and the more it is worked, the more natural it becomes.

There is more to this transcendence of the ego but this is a good place to start where you get a sense of what your ego/mind is and what your Awareness is.


Jeanette

This sounds very much like my "what is my next thought" exersize, asking both (I just tryed the one you offered) just produces silence, kind of a heavy silence; which is where I seem to sit more and more as any time my inner monologue is annoying me I ask it "what is my next thought" and enjoy the quiet

I guess I am still in "baby steps" on this part as I don't see any benifit of the silence except for the lack of ego distraction; and I'm afraid I like the control I can exert over the inner voice a bit too much as I distain most of its commentary for social programing or fear based reaction, or emotion modivated "thought"; its very attractive to me to silence it, but again I'm not sure of what i gain.. perhaps I just need to work it out a bit more

thanks for the summary; Cammody had mentioned that ego confrontation was some horribly intense experience that must be aproached cautiously.. I wonder at what he meant by that and have poked & prodded to no avail.

sounds like I'm "up to speed" on the basic's.. now where's the "more" ?

[another bob]

Posted by TargeT (here)
.. now where's the "more" ?

Meditation and self-discipline
are not all that's needed, nor even
a deep longing to go through
the door of freedom.

You may dissolve in contemplation,
as salt does in water,
but there's something more
that must happen.

~ Lalla


That something more, so seemingly out of reach, is truly out of reach – it is what's reaching, reaching the way all beings reach, arms outstretched in a dream of reaching, reaching out for Love.

Love is the cause and result of Love, Mother of the radiant Children of Love, the seed and womb and birth of Love, and there is nothing in the Body of Love that is not the perfect expression of Love.

Love comes not for the sake of Herself, yet She’s all that is sought in the Fields of Love, reached out for in desperate dreams of Love -- submerged yet revealed in countless ordinary forms of Love, the shining miracle mirror of Love, reflecting only Herself in Love.

All form is but the dress of Love, the beautiful random design of Love, though for any who believe they can grasp real Love, the innocent naked delight of Love, the shatter, slash, and sword of Love, the ultimate demonstration is:

the Truth of Love is Being Love, and Love is all that matters!

It is only Love that can reach Herself -- our grasping only postpones true Love. When we die to ourselves we arise in Love. There is nothing we can withhold from Love – let’s empty ourselves to be filled by Love, and having shared a taste of Love – let’s go all the way and be swallowed by Love!

[jorr lundstrom]

TT Its said that Gurdjieff wrote on his book "Beelzebubs tale to his grandson"
every night for 40 years, and in the morning he read wot he had written
during the night for his disciples. If anyone of them seemed to get wot
he had written, he was cross examined. And if anyone really had understood
Gurdjieff said: Then I have to bury the dog deeper. Sometimes a disciple
said: But George you must mean you have to bury the bone deeper. And Gurdjieff
answered: No, its the dog youre searching for. LOL

On the other side Don Juan, when he got Castanedas first book as a gift said:
Thank you, but you know wot we use paper to in Mexico. LOL


All is well.


Jorr