The Bible

[cellardoor]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Beren (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by observer (here)
The God of Unconditional Love requires no control.... no sacrifice.... no guilt.

the Bible does not portray Jesus as an unconditional loving being at all

from where did this Unconditional Love mantra originate ?

it sure isen't Scriptural

Well Jesus is unconditional Love and you know that Red.
It's just that some do not understand unconditional love.

It's guilt free but not responsibility free.
It's sacrifice free but not an obligation free.
It's control free but not anarchy orientated.

Love is highest order of existence where you are above any law and order for then you are Creator and one with it.
It has to be noted that when you raise in conscience you need laws and regulations basically as sign post along the way. Later on you don't need them since you understand pros and cons of choices hence live accordingly.

In Love you instantly create and see the creation in fullness. If you don't like it you can ever change it and that 's the beauty on the level of unity with God.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by Beren (here)
[....snip]
As your name is here Observer, observe and connect the dots.
See and BE !

First hour of a 2 hour interview with Dr. Joseph P. Farrell:

download mp3

Beren, my brother,

If you do nothing else, listen to the first hour of this interview all the way through.

This is what I'm talking about. Very little of what you said in the above quote is relavant to the understanding I'm presenting here.

I could fill this whole page with links, but just listen carefully to this one. If you seek further clarification, please advise me, and I will be happy to flood the thread with pertinent documentation.

Wishing you Love.... for eternity....

I will listen it later this day or tomorrow, thanks for the link.

I agree totally with your perspective Beren
Jesus came to clear misunderstandings about God and set out a new covenant of unconditional love.
Unconditional love is incapable of being judgmental far less send people to hell---we can do that ourselves unaided.

Your brother in arms

Chris

I have to disagree that Christ came to clear misunderstandings about God. Jesus is the genetic descendent of Abraham, down the line of Isaac, Mohamed is descended from Ishmael. It was AA Gabriel who dictated the Koran to Mohamed and it was AA Gabriel who Annunciated to Mary the birth of Jesus. All Jesus did was alter the word of Gabriel so that Abrahamism could be spread, he made Judaism or salvation accessible to all races. Jesus without a doubt, prescribed to the same God as Abraham. We still have original sin, Faith, Gabriel, the old testament, it is the same **** that is in the Koran and the Torah. You would have to be deluded to think that Jesus wasn't singing from the same hymn sheet as Abraham. They worship a torture God. The most power mad, controlling sadistic nihilist ever to grace paper. Marquis de sade was insanely jealous of the god of the OT. He would fantasise about the orgy of violence and destruction God has caused with his different religions. Make no mistake it is quite clear that Yahweh sent Gabriel to divide and plague humanity. Gabriel is an Archon of the demiurge, Jesus is the spear head of the Archon conspiracy. Jesus is the son of what one can only describe as Satan, the ultimate slave master. His main weapons, faith and fear, it has rendered humans stupid and no more than automation, at least I suppose Catholics and Christians can interpret their scripture but again this has lead to massive problems and division. The bible cannot hold up to science so it is Satans old friend faith that has endured. Faith and faith alone is the single most dangerous threat to humanity period. Martin Luther was the main proponent of faith. He realised that science would destroy the church so then came the biggest abomination of all, protestantism.

To those who agree with Beren about jesus coming to put right the faith, know that you are treading in the footsteps of the single most Evil man of the last century. Straight from the horses mouth.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Isn't it ironic that today orthodox Jews are saying that Israel shouldn't belong to them because they are not keeping the law. In their insanity they want to be punished, they want to be persecuted faith demands it. An orthodox Jew, would regard Hitler as gods messenger if he were punishing them today. It is true that the Jews are the chosen people, the chosen people of Satan himself. Farther of Jesus. They are the walking damned, they are Abrahams children bound and waiting for slaughter. Jesus did but bring the dagger to the kull. Of course christians are incapable of seeing god as evil, it would undermine every thing they know to be truth. It is a sad sad state of affairs, again and again faith dominates peoples lives. Faith is the root of ignorance, and who is the poster boy of faith in the church? Abraham. Jesus's great great granddad. A geneticist may discover a slave Gene in all descendants of Abraham. For he is the most obedient slave in history. In fact he was a deranged lunatic! The bible is nothing but a manual for slaves of the torture god. Sin for salvation.

[observer]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
[....snip]

how can you be pro-evidence when you believe Josephus wrote the Bible ?

This, Red is why debating with you is pointless.

I never stated Josephus wrote the Bible.

Posted by observer (here)
[....snip]
"It is generally accepted the translation from Hebrew to Greek was the work of Josephus" Flavius.

If you go back and look, the context being discussed was regarding the OLD TESTAMENT. And, yes, many biblical scholars agree that Josephus had much to do with the TRANSLATION used at the Council of Nicaea.

I gave you enough information for you to go look it up yourself. With just a cursory search - ignoring the many scholars whom I've seen broach this subject - I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

I draw your attention to the fourth paragraph -

"Pre-Christian Jewish editions of the Septuagint were held in great respect in ancient times; Philo, the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher, and Josephus, the 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian, ascribed divine inspiration to the Jewish translators"[emphasis added by observer]

This means, Red, that Josephus added his own slant on the translation he was responsible for. That same translation that was used by the Council of Nicaea.

You make statements based on your faith and expect us to accept them. I make statements based on fact and you don't do the research.

It's pointless to debate with you....

[greybeard]

Clear misunderstandings are my words.
However sometimes it necessary to meet people where they are then lead them to a better understanding of God in this case.
We dont really know the context of from where Jesus was coming from.
Context gives the meaning
We dont really know the essence of that culture of that time.
I have no doubt that the Bible was fashioned in a different context from that which Jesus used.
I have no doubts that some of what he said was altered to suit the agenda of the rulers of that time.
Install fear is a great way of controlling.

As a child I went to church once and only lasted a few minutes before I was out of there dragging my parents behind me.
I saw Jesus on the cross in the church and opening sermon on sin.
My thoughts were along the lines of "If God could do that to his only son what would he do to a sinner like me?"
Not bad for a four year old.
So I stick with "Love God -- love my fellowman"
Thats all I need to know.
Chris

[panopticon]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)
[....snip]
how can you be pro-evidence when you believe Josephus wrote the Bible ?

This, Red is why debating with you is pointless.
I never stated Josephus wrote the Bible.

Posted by observer (here)
[....snip]
"It is generally accepted the translation from Hebrew to Greek was the work of Josephus" Flavius.

If you go back and look, the context being discussed was regarding the OLD TESTAMENT. And, yes, many biblical scholars agree that Josephus had much to do with the TRANSLATION used at the Council of Nicaea.
I gave you enough information for you to go look it up yourself. With just a quick search, ignoring the many scholars whom I've seen broach this subject, I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
I draw your attention to the fourth paragraph -

"Pre-Christian Jewish editions of the Septuagint were held in great respect in ancient times; Philo, the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher, and Josephus, the 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian, ascribed divine inspiration to the Jewish translators"[emphasis added by observer]

This means, Red, that Josephus added his own slant on the translation he was responsible for. That same translation that was used by the Council of Nicaea.
You make statements based on your faith and expect us to accept them. I make statements based on fact and you don't do the research.
It's pointless to debate with you....

G'day Observer,

I am a little confused about some of the points that you have presented.

First it is my understanding that Josephus was attributing divine inspiration to the translation done by others.
Second, it is my understanding that the Septuagint was completed somewhere between a century or three before Josephus Flavius (37 CE) was born so how did he compose it? Are you saying that he had a part in some modification of the Tanakh texts? If so, can you provide me with sources for this.
Which Council of Nicaea are you referring to (325 CE or 787 CE)? I assumed 325 CE, as that was when the trinity was accepted as canon, but just wanted to be certain.

I am unsure as to where it is said that Josephus had anything to do with translating the Tanakh (OT). He was a Jewish revolutionary leader who survived the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the second temple (from memory he was a prisoner of Vespasian's at the time) and an historian who exhaustively documented Jewish history. From my perspective I would be surprised if he had a hand in the construction of some of the New Testament texts (particularly the later letters and Gospels that many scholars date to after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE) but if you have some evidence that points to this I would be happy to see it. Also I am led to believe that his livelihood/survival depended on his flattery of Vespasian and as a result it seems a little counter intuitive that he would be providing new translations of texts that were already well distributed throughout the Hellenised world.

Most, if not all, of Josephus' work is available in English translation at (or linked to from) this site:
http://www.josephus.org/

While I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with RedeZra I was just curious as to some sources so I can have a look at them for future reference.
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

Addendum:
It just occurred to me that you maybe referring to Josephus' historic writings (Antiquities for example) as being translations of the Septuagint so in case that's what you're referring to... On page 66 of 'Yeshivat Chovevei Torah Tanakh Companion: : The Book of Samuel' it says in regards to Jospehus' work in 'Antiquities of the Jews' which was written, like the Septuagint, in Greek (though a couple centuries later):

Let me just emphasize that Josephus is not translating the Bible, he is retelling it. It is expected therefore to sometimes find extra words in a passage from Antiquities...

This is why I'm a tad confused as to what you're saying Observer in regards to this and look forward to your response.

[cellardoor]

In a nut shell Christianity is a hybrid of Judaism and Mithraism. Mithra was the main god of the Roman legions at that time. St Paul or Saul, was in this religion. What Constantine wanted was a religion to unify the masses. Hence Paul's revelation that Jesus was both the Jewish Messiah and Mithra. For anyone who still thinks that the Bible is true please just look at the similarities between Christianity and Mithraism:

Mithraism - True Christianity?

The absurdly close parallels between Christianity and Mithraism are summarised below. Mithras was:

1) Born on 25 December.
2) Born of a virgin.

3) Born in a cave and attended by shepherds and wise men who gave him gifts.

4) The Son of God and intermediary between God and humanity.

5) Regarded as a "King" and Saviour who shed eternal blood.

6) Said to have sacrificed himself to save humanity.

7) Celibate.

8) Mithras had a Last Supper of bread and wine with his twelve companions.

9) Sunday (the day of the Sun) was his sacred day, not the Saturday Sabbath of Yahweh.

10) His followers were baptized.

11) They regarded wine as linked to the sacrificial blood.

12) They called themselves "brothers".

13) A cross with perpendicular, equidistant arms (the "Greek" cross) was an ancient symbol of the sun. (The Knights Templar used a Greek cross as their central emblem.)

14) The followers of Mithras ate loaves of bread marked by this cross (the prototypes of "hot cross buns").

15) The highest official grade of Mithraism was "Pater" (Father): Catholic priests are called Father.

16) There was a "Father of Fathers" (Pater Patrum), elected by the Fathers from amongst their number. He was Mithras's earthly representative, the "vicar" of Mithras (just as the Pope is called the vicar of Christ). Another title associated with the highest grade was Pater Sacrorum (Father of the Mysteries). He wore a red cap, a red robe, had a ring of office, and carried a shepherd's staff.

17) Mithras's mother was given the title "Mother of God".

18) Mithras represented an ethical system in which community and brotherhood were encouraged as a means of defeating the forces of evil.

19) Mithras was regarded as a great travelling teacher.

20) Mithras had twelve companions (equated with the twelve signs of the zodiac).

21) Mithras performed miracles such as raising the dead, casting out demons, making the blind see and the lame walk, healing the sick etc.

22) Mithras died, was buried in a tomb and rose again after three days, ascending to heaven.

23) His principal festival was celebrated every year at the spring equinox to commemorate his resurrection. The Christian Easter festival to celebrate Christ's resurrection takes place at the same time.

24) Mithras was called "the Good Shepherd."

25) Mithras was referred to as: "The Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Saviour, the Messiah."

26) He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.

27) He carried the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

28) He was the god of light and truth, the god who mediated between Man and the True God.

29) One of his symbols was the sun disk and he was known as the "Light of the World".

30) The All-Seeing Eye was a symbol chosen by Mithraists to show that nothing could be hidden from Mithras.

31) Because of its links to Persian Zoroastrianism, Mithraism was also able to incorporate Zoroastrian ideas such as heaven and hell, an apocalypse, a day of judgement, a resurrection of the dead and a second coming (where Mithras would destroy the Evil One)

[observer]

Posted by panopticon (here)
[....snip]
G'day Observer,

I am a little confused about some of the points that you have presented.
[....snip]

Glad to oblige you, panopticon.

In Josephus' own work "Antiquities of the Jews":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiquities_of_the_Jews

"Antiquities of the Jews contains an account of history of the Jewish people, written in Greek..... In the first ten volumes, Josephus follows the events of the historical books of the Hebrew Bible beginning with the creation of Adam and Eve."

You can follow an alternative interpretation of the 'writing of the ENTIRE Bible' story, including reference material in the first five chapters of David Icke's book, "The Biggest Secret".
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bi...t.htm#contents

I'll not waste any more of a fine day doing the research for you. The entire story is somewhere within those pages. This story is all contained in detail within the reference material I've already offered in this and other threads.

Now I realize that Icke's work will come under fire, here in this thread, but his work does create a 'reasonable doubt'. icke's work is well referenced and one can check-out any points of the interpretation from the sources if one is skeptical.

Here's another excellent interpretation of the historic problems with the translations of both the Old and New Testaments:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=f9DFOo7DIVg
You can follow all 10 episodes in YouTube.

Although Ehrman doesn't directly address the issue of you query, panopticon, his lecture is an excellent source for understanding the problem with translations.

[cellardoor]

There is good evidence to suggest that Jesus was in fact an orthodox Jew. Here are some passages from non Paulian sources:

Matthew 10:5: These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: Matthew 10:6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 10:7: And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand..

I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

(Matthew 5:17): Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew and Luke both give genealogies to the line of Jesus making his Jewishness impeccable. Orthodox Jews are extremely tribal, Jesus, or to give him his proper Jewish name Yehoshua ben Yosef would have been exclusively trying to save the Jews and not anyone else as he says in the above quote. Paul has twisted every little detail completely de Jewifing Yehoshua and replacing him with the Arian man God that is infamous today. This is the biggest lie ever told. The thing is most christians know that there faith is absurd, but faith trumps all. In all factuality Yehoshua Ben Yosef (Jesus son of Josef) would have looked more like this.

[observer]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by observer (here)

If you do nothing else, listen to the first hour of this interview all the way through.

i think Farrell forgot to tell you about the Nephilim in Canaan


now that's an assignment for you

find out who the Nephilim were

as Jesus hints to their return in our time

I see no reason to address what Farrell has written about the Nephilim in a discussion about the moral character of Yahweh. But if you insist:

I've read a good many of Farrell's books, but I couldn't say exactly which one this was in. Farrell does not index his work. In one of his books, (I think it was in Genes, Giants, Monsters, and Men) Farrell speaks of the Tabernacle, the tent that was constructed by the Hebrews to house the Arc of the Covenant while wandering in the desert. One of the rooms in that Tabernacle was reserved for Yahweh to occupy.

The proportions of that room and the furnishings within that tabernacle could only be intended for the occupancy of a giant. The dimensions are given in one of the verses of the Old Testament.

There is mention in one of the verses of Exodus regarding Yahweh spending time in this room. In reference to that verse, here's a real act of unconditional love for you. On the day Yahweh made Aaron the head Levite, and during a celebration for that nomination, ol'Yahweh decides to crispy-fry his best man's two sons.

In other words, Farrell is suggesting that Yahweh is a Giant much like the Nephilim were Giants.

Now, please, don't later say that I said the following were Farrell's summations. This following is my interpretation:

This goes to what I said earlier in the thread about the 40 years of wandering in the desert.

Could the real purpose of deluding a bunch of Egyptian Pharaoh Rejects into thinking they were a 'chosen people' be due to Yahweh's desire to rid the planet of any other Nephilim (those Giants predominantly occupying the land of Canaan), and thus nullify any opposition to Yahweh's claim of 'The One True God"?

The theory does create doubt regarding the truth of the the stories found in the Old Testament.

I trust this goes to answering your silly quiz, Red.

[RedeZra]

Posted by Beren (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by observer (here)
The God of Unconditional Love requires no control.... no sacrifice.... no guilt.

the Bible does not portray Jesus as an unconditional loving being at all

from where did this Unconditional Love mantra originate ?

it sure isen't Scriptural

Well Jesus is unconditional Love and you know that Red.
It's just that some do not understand unconditional love.

first let me tnx all participants ; )


if God is unconditional love then there was no reason for Jesus to come and die an excruciating death on the Cross


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - John 3:16-19



your sins my sins and the sins of the whole world

are nailed to the Cross through the Son of God


i'm sorry but satanists rapists killers cheaters etc etc will go to hell

unless they truly repent so Christ can forgive them

[RedeZra]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

i think Farrell forgot to tell you about the Nephilim in Canaan

In other words, Farrell is suggesting that Yahweh is a Giant much like the Nephilim were Giants.


Could the real purpose of deluding a bunch of Egyptian Pharaoh Rejects into thinking they were a 'chosen people' be due to Yahweh's desire to rid the planet of any other Nephilim (those Giants predominantly occupying the land of Canaan), and thus nullify any opposition to Yahweh's claim of 'The One True God"?


I trust this goes to answering your silly quiz, Red.

no not at all

everything you say sounds absurd to me

[RedeZra]

what most of you fail to recognize and acknowledge is that there is a distinction between good and evil


evil is of the devil

and is the spirit of lies deception and evulness so prevalent today

but has been working in the world since the beginning


"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all [peoples] to Myself."

This He said, signifying by what death He would die. - John 12:31-33



the devil is out to fool us and knows Scripture in and out

and is the spirit behind several religions and ideologies

since long before Christ came to destroy his works


nobody of sound mind cannot but see and accept

that it is the devil who is the power behind the governments

[GCS1103]

Red-

I always enjoy stopping in to see what is posted on this thread. I give you credit- you are persistent and dedicated. My beliefs mirror yours, but I still like to read the exchanges here. I guess we can all agree that everyone has a very definite idea of what they perceive as "the truth". I don't think anyone here is going to be swayed away from what they believe, but it's a great thread nonetheless. I notice that this discussion tends to bring out a lot of frustration in some posters who are not happy with your interpretation of The Bible. Consider that a compliment, as you have engaged people to think about this subject.

On a final note, and without any offense to the poster, using David Icke to substaniate a point of view in a theological discussion, made me smile. Keep up the good work, Red.

[RedeZra]

Posted by GCS1103 (here)
Red-

I always enjoy stopping in to see what is posted on this thread. I give you credit- you are persistent and dedicated. My beliefs mirror yours, but I still like to read the exchanges here. I guess we can all agree that everyone has a very definite idea of what they perceive as "the truth". I don't think anyone here is going to be swayed away from what they believe, but it's a great thread nonetheless.

tnx Goldie ; )


i am trying to convey the seriousness of the hour since i interpret the Bible quite literally

therefore i have figured out

that we are in what the Scripture refer to as the End Times

[cellardoor]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
the devil is out to fool us and knows Scripture in and out

and is the spirit behind several religions and ideologies

since long before Christ came to destroy his works

Like I said earlier Red Jesus said

(Matthew 5:17): Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Your "literal" interpretation of the bible is wrong if you think Jesus came to quash the other religions. Why would he say "I have not come to destroy the profits"? Also if you were to take the story of adam and eve literally, you would account the Evil in the governments to Original sin, not the devil. Our floored nature is the source of evil. And anyway, if Yahweh is omnipotent, why does the devil exist? Yahweh is quick to condemn man and take away our free will, yet he just lets satan do what the hell he likes. According to you lets him run the world.

[RedeZra]

Posted by cellardoor (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)
the devil is out to fool us and knows Scripture in and out

and is the spirit behind several religions and ideologies

since long before Christ came to destroy his works

Like I said earlier Red Jesus said

(Matthew 5:17): Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Your "literal" interpretation of the bible is wrong if you think Jesus came to quash the other religions.

no it isn't


He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. - 1 John 3:8



besides from atoning for the sins of the world

Jesus also came to tell and show humanity that He is the Word of God

and so every religion and ideology practised by mankind past and present

is of the devil if it goes against the Word of God

Posted by cellardoor (here)
Also if you were to take the story of adam and eve literally, you would account the Evil in the governments to Original sin, not the devil. Our floored nature is the source of evil. And anyway, if Yahweh is omnipotent, why does the devil exist? Yahweh is quick to condemn man and take away our free will, yet he just lets satan do what the hell he likes. According to you lets him run the world.

the devil has a legal right to humanity

because we are children of Adam and Eve

who chose to obey the devil and disobey God

[GCS1103]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by GCS1103 (here)
Red-

I always enjoy stopping in to see what is posted on this thread. I give you credit- you are persistent and dedicated. My beliefs mirror yours, but I still like to read the exchanges here. I guess we can all agree that everyone has a very definite idea of what they perceive as "the truth". I don't think anyone here is going to be swayed away from what they believe, but it's a great thread nonetheless.

tnx Goldie ; )


i am trying to convey the seriousness of the hour since i interpret the Bible quite literally

therefore i have figured out

that we are in what the Scripture refer to as the End Times

I agree with you completely. I do believe we are the generation that will see the return of Christ.

[cellardoor]

[QUOTE=RedeZra;450611][QUOTE=cellardoor;450596]

Posted by RedeZra (here)


Like I said earlier Red Jesus said

(Matthew 5:17): Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Your "literal" interpretation of the bible is wrong if you think Jesus came to quash the other religions.

no it isn't


He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. - 1 John 3:8

I have to ask again, why does the Devil exist if God is omnipotent? This is supposedly a Loving god is it not?

besides from atoning for the sins of the world

Jesus also came to tell and show humanity that He is the Word of God

and so every religion and ideology practised by mankind past and present

is of the devil if it goes against the Word of God
the devil has a legal right to humanity

because we are children of Adam and Eve

who chose to obey the devil and disobey God

This is a really fundamentalist view point. If the bible is the literal word of God/Jesus then why is it so contradictory? Officially there is no Word of God because the words of jesus have been so badly interpreted and miss represented that no one would know what he said in the first place. So we are all damned. How many "words" of god have been missed out? How many Words added? How many sins have we made unknowingly? I think we need a time machine so we can get the "words" from the horses mouth. That is our only hope of salvation following this line of reasoning. The bible is an interpretation of Jesus's life. Equating to about 3 weeks of his life. It is the only evidence we have that Jesus actually existed. You would think the son of god would have written these words down himself, he really didn't have much foresight for a messiah. Or perhaps he was illiterate. Is that how god would prefer us to be? Do not eat from the tree of knowledge. I'm damned because I have an education and I see right through the Bible as do countless other rational people. What is the Word of god but the Chinese whispers of deranged simpletons concocting the next mind prison. Adam and eve didn't actually happen you know. Genesis is false. Hasn't science put this to rest already?

[Beren]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by Beren (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by observer (here)
The God of Unconditional Love requires no control.... no sacrifice.... no guilt.

the Bible does not portray Jesus as an unconditional loving being at all

from where did this Unconditional Love mantra originate ?

it sure isen't Scriptural

Well Jesus is unconditional Love and you know that Red.
It's just that some do not understand unconditional love.

first let me tnx all participants ; )


if God is unconditional love then there was no reason for Jesus to come and die an excruciating death on the Cross


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - John 3:16-19



your sins my sins and the sins of the whole world

are nailed to the Cross through the Son of God


i'm sorry but satanists rapists killers cheaters etc etc will go to hell

unless they truly repent so Christ can forgive them

As I said Red, God is unconditional love but it doesn`t spare us from our choices.
Satanists had chosen what they will reap .

Even that is an act of Love to allow them to do what they do but also to not spare them of the consequences of their acts.
In low conscience people wreak havoc all around them in all dimensions when they follow the path of selfishness and fear. In time that abundant energy of chaos piles up so it must be dealt with in order to preserve experience field for other who didn`t chose fear and selfishness.

Some perceive that chaos dealing as wrath of God- so be it- it`s a wrath of God - at least to them who know they strayed and did evil and they know that a wave of leveling the pile of bad energy is coming. And it must look horrible from their point of view.
For others is a sign of relief.


But from God`s point of view it`s just correction and those souls will be stripped out of their bad energy in order to survive . That`s like pulling out cancer by surgical knife or laser... Cancer surely doesn`t feel well when tasting the laser or knife.

Now why do we always support "cancer" as humanity?

Why do we defend it persistently through the ages?
Why do we call God - our Creator and life itself as blood thirsty entity?

Why?

Because we look at things from our point of limited view.

For us it is a tough thing to see that someone dies but from God`s point of view that souls is returning home.
And we construct structures of pain and sadness and horror in our non understanding what`s going on in life outside of our little low conscience understanding.

And God is persistently dealing with our ignorance and our petty philosophies of life and we even don`t know what we are talking about in majority of cases.

Can the soul who is created out of God ask its Creator why? Sure but then answer might surprise us.
We are often not ready to deal with it and that`s ok and God is allowing that.
But we aren`t allowing the answer which ruins our little construction of cards.

Why can`t we see that all that we do to ourselves and others are and is us? Not God !
Never!
Always us.

Even when you think God said this or that or God ordered this or that, stop and ask yourself who actually caused this situation?
It was us but we said ;"God made me do it or told me so or asked me to do this...etc..."

Point is that we have to become responsible for our thoughts, acts and words. Because we are creating by them and we have to acknowledge that we caused many things .

If you put your finger in electrical disposer and die because of the current shot - you will be responsible for that act - not God!
Or you still wanna believe that God killed you?

So Canaanites sacrificed children and Nephilim ate human flesh and some other humans came and eradicated them because of that and some cry foul!

Isn`t that so?

Foul , eh?

I`m just trying to show people that we NEED to broaden our vistas unless we start to live and experience living hell on Earth caused by our very thought acts and words.

[Beren]

Posted by cellardoor (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)
the devil is out to fool us and knows Scripture in and out

and is the spirit behind several religions and ideologies

since long before Christ came to destroy his works

Like I said earlier Red Jesus said

(Matthew 5:17): Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Your "literal" interpretation of the bible is wrong if you think Jesus came to quash the other religions. Why would he say "I have not come to destroy the profits"? Also if you were to take the story of adam and eve literally, you would account the Evil in the governments to Original sin, not the devil. Our floored nature is the source of evil. And anyway, if Yahweh is omnipotent, why does the devil exist? Yahweh is quick to condemn man and take away our free will, yet he just lets satan do what the hell he likes. According to you lets him run the world.

That`s a good point from you. And here`s the truth that God has not real opponent ,only ones who imagine that.
Being who became Satan and Devil(adversary and liar) is allowed to live to prove its points and to learn something from that.
That`s unconditional love. To allow one to be their choice.

But as you know every choice bears fruits so that being will reap its fruits at large.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[QUOTE=cellardoor;450659][QUOTE=RedeZra;450611]

Posted by cellardoor (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)


Like I said earlier Red Jesus said

(Matthew 5:17): Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Your "literal" interpretation of the bible is wrong if you think Jesus came to quash the other religions.

no it isn't


He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. - 1 John 3:8

I have to ask again, why does the Devil exist if God is omnipotent? This is supposedly a Loving god is it not?

besides from atoning for the sins of the world

Jesus also came to tell and show humanity that He is the Word of God

and so every religion and ideology practised by mankind past and present

is of the devil if it goes against the Word of God
the devil has a legal right to humanity

because we are children of Adam and Eve

who chose to obey the devil and disobey God

This is a really fundamentalist view point. If the bible is the literal word of God/Jesus then why is it so contradictory? Officially there is no Word of God because the words of jesus have been so badly interpreted and miss represented that no one would know what he said in the first place. So we are all damned. How many "words" of god have been missed out? How many Words added? How many sins have we made unknowingly? I think we need a time machine so we can get the "words" from the horses mouth. That is our only hope of salvation following this line of reasoning. The bible is an interpretation of Jesus's life. Equating to about 3 weeks of his life. It is the only evidence we have that Jesus actually existed. You would think the son of god would have written these words down himself, he really didn't have much foresight for a messiah. Or perhaps he was illiterate. Is that how god would prefer us to be? Do not eat from the tree of knowledge. I'm damned because I have an education and I see right through the Bible as do countless other rational people. What is the Word of god but the Chinese whispers of deranged simpletons concocting the next mind prison. Adam and eve didn't actually happen you know. Genesis is false. Hasn't science put this to rest already?

Everything that you claim can be proven wrong with factual evidence.
But that still will not change your mind. And that`s still OK, that`s your choice.

Every choice will have its fruits.

[RedeZra]

Posted by cellardoor (here)
I have to ask again, why does the Devil exist if God is omnipotent? This is supposedly a Loving god is it not?

why do satanists murderers and rapists exist ?

because omnipotent God did not destroy them before they committed the crime


God did not fashion robots

we are free to choose but our choices come with a shadow called consequences

Posted by cellardoor (here)
Officially there is no Word of God because the words of jesus have been so badly interpreted and miss represented that no one would know what he said in the first place.

Jesus is the Livin Word of God

and has inspired Scripture


but He is alive you know and about to return