Sex at Dawn, an Anthropological Review of Sex

[write4change]

Tonight I decided to answer Kimberly's question about sexual surrogacy with Viet Nam Vets. Mostly, because I cannot sleep and I want to see if this helps. Today one of the major articles on Huffington Post is about the over 1500 young men who have lost their genitals just since 2005. Each year is escalting and the number from last year was over 300. When we started the war in Iraq I began to have nightmares and flashback to what it is like dealing with these young men. I started working with them at Letterman Hospital as an adjudicator for the VA. At 31, I was a nurse and began the surragacy program. I also had a master's in psych. After submitting your CV, you were interviewed by a panel of three who essentially said tell us a story about why you would be effective doing this. That story may be for another time.

One of the things I am aware of is this was traumatizing for me as a young woman, but I never acknowledged that until relatively recently. I took my lead from the young vets and the WWII vets that I knew from having a father who was one and so were all his friends and associates. They told hell of a lot of beer stories but they never spoke publicly about feeling stories. Everyone puts those stories in a box puts them away and maybe never looks at them again. Or like my husband getting close to death finally needs to get it off his chest. You never get over seeing these young maimed bodies and the loss on the faces of these guys. If you are a sensitive, you live in their war zone. And you choose to do this because you want them to find peace and you are willing to do whatever it takes to help. You do it for the thirteen friends you will never see again. You do it because their country demanded it of them; and you feel you owe it to them to return in kind.

I am going to talk about the paras first, I don't know how far I can go with this tonight. Not every one was told of this program or allowed to participate. I don't know exactly how the neurologists decided but the shrink input was for these three kinds: those who really indicated wanting to get on with their life in all ways as much as possible and approached everything gung ho, those who had wives and lovers that were highly active and begged for any and all help, and those very young ones with no support who just wanted to die.

The rules for the women nurses were that you had no date of intimacy with the same patient more than three times.

We had a van, a special restaurant that belonged to a vet, and a special motel room in a small out of the way place. You began by going in and meeting the patient like a regular nurse, you changed his dressings, and did all the things nursing did in those times when we had primary care ABC nursing---appearance, behavior, condition. When we gave the bed bath, we took longer, talked more, and creamed their body with old spice mixed with the lubiderm. We asked if they liked it. We asked lots of things--as many as possible to elicite interest in us as people. People were not arbitrarily assigned, we wanted success. We needed response and connection.

One of the things that really got to me was when wives and lovers came into San Francisco, these guys had already been there for weeks. We would show them the pictures of their bodies taken in the Xray room. There were more than I would like to remember that looked and just said no I cannot do it. They simply walked away. When I went into onocology nursing, I had several young women under age 30 with breast cancer whose husbands also simply abandoned them. So I saw that from both sides now. The stronger the original relationship was based on physical desire and beauty, the greater the rejection. John McCain story about his first wife and his reaction to seeing her after her auto accident is rather typical. And I am not so sure those women that tried to be the loving support and then failed caused more pain than just leaving in the first place which is quicker and cleaner and leaves the guy with his anger to work with. Leaving gradually is like letting him psychicly bleed to death.

Those who had wives and lovers we asked to see them be with them kiss them and hold their hands but never uncover them and not to do anything stimulating until we had worked with them. In those days, there were no MRIs and you would not know how things were going to work until tried. If you got connection as a nurse with a guy, it was you who told him about the program and asked if he wanted to participate. You made sure that he felt you cared about him and wanted to do this because lots of things about him attracted you. None of my guys ever said yes immediately.

The big deal for these guys in being not in control. Not making the date, picking the place, the food etc. It is being out in public for the first time in a wheel chair with a woman doing all the work, the driving, the lifting things in and out etc. There is no going to the motel room on the first date. It is letting them think about the whole experience in their own time frame. My job is to get them to forget I am a nurse and see me as a woman who is interested in them. Their stories, their history, their jokes--whatever. More than anything you want to get them to laugh. I learned a bunch of long drawn out story jokes with surprise punch lines. Laughing together is a form of acceptance and agreement. Ulli and the pub are big on that and for the same reasons.

The first date in the motel room is my most difficult night. It is where I make myself vulnerable to someone I really don't know well and will never know really well. We get on the bed together in whatever way he can with his needs of being proped or position etc. He stays fully clothed and I strip in whatever fashion I suss in appropriate and lay naked beside him. He is free to touch me in any way and for some this is not having touched a woman in over a year.

Hopefully, he is honest for his own good and he tells the shrink exactly what he feels or does not feel and the shrink and I plan the next date. If things go well, all the above happens again only now I undress him and caress him in all the ways I can think of that he will accept. At this time in my life, I had not completely been able to sever myself from catholicism and I saw oral sex as a perversion so I had to work with that with myself for a while and talk to shrinks about it.

If all of this is successful, we now have three way counseling with the shrink, myself, and the wife/lover. We discuss what to expect. How to deal with any prothesis, physical appliance that needs to removed and replaced, etc. This is not a one two three go thing. There is a lot of reservation all around. With the single men who find out life is not over thank god, we work with what they need to learn to do to gain as much control as possible. We let them listen to women talking to the shrink about their positive experience with it.

I am by nature a teacher. I love teaching because there is no joy greater than the aha look on a young face unless it is a man who feels he was reborn in love and god granted him grace. That is when you have to be strong enough and loving enough to cry together.

But I know as few women know that war is terrible thing and the price is beyond measure which is why we don't speak of it. The ugliness of war for prophylactic reasons makes me vomit literally and that my country could justify this is something I have no words for. This is enough for tonight.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by write4change (here)
Tonight I decided to answer Kimberly's question about sexual surrogacy with Viet Nam Vets. Mostly, because I cannot sleep and I want to see if this helps. Today one of the major articles on Huffington Post is about the over 1500 young men who have lost their genitals just since 2005. Each year is escalting and the number from last year was over 300. When we started the war in Iraq I began to have nightmares and flashback to what it is like dealing with these young men. I started working with them at Letterman Hospital as an adjudicator for the VA. At 31, I was a nurse and began the surragacy program. I also had a master's in psych. After submitting your CV, you were interviewed by a panel of three who essentially said tell us a story about why you would be effective doing this. That story may be for another time.

One of the things I am aware of is this was traumatizing for me as a young woman, but I never acknowledged that until relatively recently. I took my lead from the young vets and the WWII vets that I knew from having a father who was one and so were all his friends and associates. They told hell of a lot of beer stories but they never spoke publicly about feeling stories. Everyone puts those stories in a box puts them away and maybe never looks at them again. Or like my husband getting close to death finally needs to get it off his chest. You never get over seeing these young maimed bodies and the loss on the faces of these guys. If you are a sensitive, you live in their war zone. And you choose to do this because you want them to find peace and you are willing to do whatever it takes to help. You do it for the thirteen friends you will never see again. You do it because their country demanded it of them; and you feel you owe it to them to return in kind.

I am going to talk about the paras first, I don't know how far I can go with this tonight. Not every one was told of this program or allowed to participate. I don't know exactly how the neurologists decided but the shrink input was for these three kinds: those who really indicated wanting to get on with their life in all ways as much as possible and approached everything gung ho, those who had wives and lovers that were highly active and begged for any and all help, and those very young ones with no support who just wanted to die.

The rules for the women nurses were that you had no date of intimacy with the same patient more than three times.

We had a van, a special restaurant that belonged to a vet, and a special motel room in a small out of the way place. You began by going in and meeting the patient like a regular nurse, you changed his dressings, and did all the things nursing did in those times when we had primary care ABC nursing---appearance, behavior, condition. When we gave the bed bath, we took longer, talked more, and creamed their body with old spice mixed with the lubiderm. We asked if they liked it. We asked lots of things--as many as possible to elicite interest in us as people. People were not arbitrarily assigned, we wanted success. We needed response and connection.

One of the things that really got to me was when wives and lovers came into San Francisco, these guys had already been there for weeks. We would show them the pictures of their bodies taken in the Xray room. There were more than I would like to remember that looked and just said no I cannot do it. They simply walked away. When I went into onocology nursing, I had several young women under age 30 with breast cancer whose husbands also simply abandoned them. So I saw that from both sides now. The stronger the original relationship was based on physical desire and beauty, the greater the rejection. John McCain story about his first wife and his reaction to seeing her after her auto accident is rather typical. And I am not so sure those women that tried to be the loving support and then failed caused more pain than just leaving in the first place which is quicker and cleaner and leaves the guy with his anger to work with. Leaving gradually is like letting him psychicly bleed to death.

Those who had wives and lovers we asked to see them be with them kiss them and hold their hands but never uncover them and not to do anything stimulating until we had worked with them. In those days, there were no MRIs and you would not know how things were going to work until tried. If you got connection as a nurse with a guy, it was you who told him about the program and asked if he wanted to participate. You made sure that he felt you cared about him and wanted to do this because lots of things about him attracted you. None of my guys ever said yes immediately.

The big deal for these guys in being not in control. Not making the date, picking the place, the food etc. It is being out in public for the first time in a wheel chair with a woman doing all the work, the driving, the lifting things in and out etc. There is no going to the motel room on the first date. It is letting them think about the whole experience in their own time frame. My job is to get them to forget I am a nurse and see me as a woman who is interested in them. Their stories, their history, their jokes--whatever. More than anything you want to get them to laugh. I learned a bunch of long drawn out story jokes with surprise punch lines. Laughing together is a form of acceptance and agreement. Ulli and the pub are big on that and for the same reasons.

The first date in the motel room is my most difficult night. It is where I make myself vulnerable to someone I really don't know well and will never know really well. We get on the bed together in whatever way he can with his needs of being proped or position etc. He stays fully clothed and I strip in whatever fashion I suss in appropriate and lay naked beside him. He is free to touch me in any way and for some this is not having touched a woman in over a year.

Hopefully, he is honest for his own good and he tells the shrink exactly what he feels or does not feel and the shrink and I plan the next date. If things go well, all the above happens again only now I undress him and caress him in all the ways I can think of that he will accept. At this time in my life, I had not completely been able to sever myself from catholicism and I saw oral sex as a perversion so I had to work with that with myself for a while and talk to shrinks about it.

If all of this is successful, we now have three way counseling with the shrink, myself, and the wife/lover. We discuss what to expect. How to deal with any prothesis, physical appliance that needs to removed and replaced, etc. This is not a one two three go thing. There is a lot of reservation all around. With the single men who find out life is not over thank god, we work with what they need to learn to do to gain as much control as possible. We let them listen to women talking to the shrink about their positive experience with it.

I am by nature a teacher. I love teaching because there is no joy greater than the aha look on a young face unless it is a man who feels he was reborn in love and god granted him grace. That is when you have to be strong enough and loving enough to cry together.

But I know as few women know that war is terrible thing and the price is beyond measure which is why we don't speak of it. The ugliness of war for prophylactic reasons makes me vomit literally and that my country could justify this is something I have no words for. This is enough for tonight.

right now there are no words.

[Kimberley]

Dear write4change and all...

write4change, thank you so very much for sharing this with us! And thank you for all you are! You use the name write4change and you are doing just that.

You taught me a couple of things that I really never thought about before...

The stronger the original relationship was based on physical desire and beauty, the greater the rejection.

I have never been able to understand war...it is sickening. Thank you for your service to the men that you helped!

A couple of years back when I was struggling with very high sexual energy surges, due to the onset of menopause, I made a strong connection about how our sexual energy is not only our procreative energy it is our co-creative energy. Since then every time I have an orgasm I send that energy out to the universe and repeat the words in my head or out loud sometimes ... Peace on Earth...Peace on Earth... Peace on Earth...Peace on Earth...

Much love to us all!!

[write4change]

Kimberly,

I think you are right about using that energy for co creation and it is much harder for a man to get there. He does not have a clitoris which is the only organ in the human body designed solely for pleasure. If you look at god as the intelligent design then he designed sex for pleasure as much as procreation. From pleasure comes love or at least appreciation. I have always known that the bible was written by men. If you were an infinite creator, you would not be sitting around on some throne listening to a bunch of people saying we praise you, we bless you, we glorify you, etc. That is a male fantasy. A creating god gets off on creating, praising etc would be extremely boring for eternity. Creating gods continue to create and the universe expands.

A man thinks he is doing something even some books tell him to count thrusts etc. He has been competing in pissing matches since he could stand. Sex is very external for a man. For a woman, sex is very internal and you have to open to it. Unlike a little boy, she is never confronted with her sexuality in her face. For a woman sex is an awakening, a flowering. Unforunately, the way our society functions, most women never get to experience their blooming because more often than not their first male partners think they have a gun and want to see how many rounds they can fire and the notches they can carve. One of the things, the book points out is that men are imprinted very young what sex is and it is very difficult for them to change. Women are not imprinted so deeply and they seem to be able to adapt more.

He illustrates this by telling the study of goats and sheep. They take infant goats and sheep and raise male goats with female sheep and vice versa. They come to their sexuality and since they know no different will mate with each other. After allowing that they place them back in herds of their own kind. The males will not mate with female goats, they want their sheep back. The females within a few months are normal members of the herd.

Kimberly, you remain more focus than I --- I get no further than oh god oh god oh god. LOL

One of the things the book did for me is explain why most men make no sounds. That has bothered me all my life particularly with the love of my life. He is also a tantric master but I think of him as so controled. I can now look at him differently which makes him that much hotter to me. I have loved him in different ways for over 40 years. I would love to hear him gasp oh god.

In writing my books, I spent six months on the net watching all kinds of porn. Such things were not available in my time of learning about sex and I learned a lot and got over the novelty of all of it. The only men who consistently make sounds are gay men and gay women are not very vocal either. I think knowing these kinds of things when I was young and making choices would have been very helpful. If I were a parent of a teen, I would rush out and buy this book and come to new understanding before I tried to tell my kids what it's all about as I see it.

[Moz]

Dear write4change,

I'm so impressed with the way that you write and explain/tell your ideas.
I find it a pleasure to read your thoughts and hope that one day most of us will attain this attitude towards ourselves and the ones we love.

I feel so much right now I can explain it...i ts just what you tell and the manner... it totally gets to me.

My most sincere respect for you.
Moz

[write4change]

Thank you Moz. I have had some very negative experience telling these stories in my 30s, so I stopped. I cannot remember pain without feeling pain and it can be difficult for me. Your feedback encourages me that I am on the right path and the universe wants these stories told. So thank you again for helping me get there. Silence does not feel like consent. I am now off to the doctor's with a smile on my face.

[Moz]

write4cahnge,

I'm very pleased that I could give you that today...it is my pleasure.
And once again I think you have done some incredible work in this life.
I hope all goes well with you and the Doc.

A very BIG hug to you.
Moz

[EnergyGardener]

I confess I would rather read a thread of sex authored by women, than men.

However, to the defense of at least some of my gender: There are human men that do fully appreciate the sensitivities of all aspects of the sexual experience. Consider, that too, many times men are much more giving than their counterparts. One of the reasons: acting as the instigator is still considered their role by many women. Second, could this also be conditioned as a result of performance issues: That the result (or initial surprise of) feminine leadership (especially if done in the negative) sometimes does have a dampening effect; we can be delicate beings...

Yet, if even it is better in other worlds, other places, with other people, I say, the glass is more than half full and I am thankful to be here! I am a very lucky man! And, my entire family, especially myself, will continue to reap the rewards of our strong bonds, provided, I do not forget.

Though, there are still many (perhaps the vast majority) that remain clueless; the frustration is understood. Fore example: With my old golfing group, the same "good" friend would repeat the same joke, "Do you want to know the best way to give a woman an orgasm?" I would of course be compelled to offer just a few, when he would interrupt with the punchline, "who cares?" I would then try to explain in great detail why all men should care, but there was never an audience for that. I remember, and still do today, the sympathy I had for them to miss out on what I retain as one of life's greatest treasures. At the least, the very idea that I was / am invited to provide that experience remains the greatest compliment, adventure, thrill, and then of course:


REWARD!



I do very much hope that more males and females alike will learn and develop the appreciation that much more is received when, and usually after, much more is given. And, I do not mean that in the number or effort of thrusts.

Cheers.

[HORIZONS]

Posted by EnergyGardener (here)
I confess I would rather read a thread of sex authored by women, than men.

However, to the defense of at least some of my gender: There are human men that do fully appreciate the sensitivities of all aspects of the sexual experience.

I do very much hope that more males and females alike will learn and develop the appreciation that much more is received when, and usually after, much more is given. And, I do not mean that in the number or effort of thrusts.

Cheers.

Well spoken EnergyGardener, Well spoken!!!

[Kimberley]

As I said in my first post on this thread this post is so"me".... I am a talker much more than a typer so I am not adding as much as i could because this is not my best mode of communication...even though I do like to write and do write I am envious of W4C ability to flow with her writing. And I thank here SO much for sharing what she is sharing...I will share more when I am able...

I did a google search on"sexual surrogacy with Viet Nam Vets" and found a few interesting pages... including this thread at the top of the list...??

http://sex-surrogate.com/
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../ddhln.01.htme

I am here loving this and will be back with more soon...
Much love!!

[nearing]

w4c is an excellent writer and I feel privileged to have her giving us these tidbits of extraordinary knowledge that we would otherwise never be exposed to.

We have human sexuality here from the ancient and biological to the modern and societal. What a classroom!

[nearing]

For your consideration:
Pranic Intimacy Rituals

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JWwjvVG1lRI

I wonder if the Bonobos have a similar ritual? Who are we to say they don't?

[write4change]

I ask Nearing to post this for me. And for all those who are worried -- it has a G Rating.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by write4change (here)
I ask Nearing to post this for me. And for all those who are worried -- it has a G Rating.

I was watching this and realising that my non-human nature was watching and feeling really puzzled about it. I honestly can't read the energy signals in most of this- that's nothing new, there's a lot that I don't understand energetically about some practices- but I hadn't realised that the 'untrained' way I do tantra is vastly different from other practices. It also makes me curious that I feel adaptations of these sorts of practices would be possible for me with a *female*, but not a male. I simply have never experienced males being able to truly hold this kind of space in a way that doesn't feel- manipulative? Weird? Off signal? I can't really explain it, although I do recognise a completely different energetic signal if I tune into the Otherrealms.

Now I'm curious as to what that is.... *wanders off to play with the frequency*

[write4change]

Posted by EnergyGardener (here)
I confess I would rather read a thread of sex authored by women, than men.

However, to the defense of at least some of my gender: There are human men that do fully appreciate the sensitivities of all aspects of the sexual experience. Consider, that too, many times men are much more giving than their counterparts. One of the reasons: acting as the instigator is still considered their role by many women. Second, could this also be conditioned as a result of performance issues: That the result (or initial surprise of) feminine leadership (especially if done in the negative) sometimes does have a dampening effect; we can be delicate beings...

Yet, if even it is better in other worlds, other places, with other people, I say, the glass is more than half full and I am thankful to be here! I am a very lucky man! And, my entire family, especially myself, will continue to reap the rewards of our strong bonds, provided, I do not forget.

Though, there are still many (perhaps the vast majority) that remain clueless; the frustration is understood. Fore example: With my old golfing group, the same "good" friend would repeat the same joke, "Do you want to know the best way to give a woman an orgasm?" I would of course be compelled to offer just a few, when he would interrupt with the punchline, "who cares?" I would then try to explain in great detail why all men should care, but there was never an audience for that. I remember, and still do today, the sympathy I had for them to miss out on what I retain as one of life's greatest treasures. At the least, the very idea that I was / am invited to provide that experience remains the greatest compliment, adventure, thrill, and then of course:


REWARD!



I do very much hope that more males and females alike will learn and develop the appreciation that much more is received when, and usually after, much more is given. And, I do not mean that in the number or effort of thrusts.

Cheers.

Energygardner,

Everything I "know" about sex and especially the deep and the profound has been taught by a man. Certainly, great male minds have spent not only a lot of time but lives sussing all this. Great male leaders now at this time, usually are married and/or with partners with whom they have deep and profound experiences and they bring that to their work. A man who is sexually satisfied has a glistening to his entire aura. They are very rare. But they will be the ones who hold this world together in some ways as we face this time. I see this darkly but do not yet see how it works. It may be part of why I am moved by the universe to write all this now.

I have been a sexually traumatized woman and particularly a young girl but my ability to get passed it; is much greater than an equally traumatized young male. I have worked with some of them even after 50. One man after 50, I recently worked with deliberately got Aids. His father did him rear entry at 7 and the relationship lasted that way until 12. This man is as mean as a snake in all the metaphoric ways we say that. I am not the only one over his life that has worked with him. First, he feels maybe rightly or wrongly, I can't tell with him--that his mother colluded and this becomes an even bigger wound. Then coming from the south with patriarchy and possession, he feels like the whole world colluded. Knowing him as I do, the world is lucky that he is not a serial murderer but then he is not dead yet.

I tell these stories no to invoke revulsion but to give some real foundation to people understanding how sex is not what we do, but who we are. And that society imposing or not imposing a workable structure for people to find out freely when they are young who they are and who they are free to love if they choose is a foundation of angst--sorrow and anger--the west has been totally unwilling to face because the patriarchy authoritarian role is all about submission and possession.

I posted in another thread that the catholic church for centuries knowingly and publicly castrated young boys in hopes of retaining them as male sopranos. Many families sold their young sons to the church for this purpose. It took centuries for a consensus to be reached that this was totally immoral even thought sanctioned by the church. Once that consensus is reached; we develop amnesia and pretend it never happened. It is this kind of behavior regarding every institution that matters that is now not functioning that has brought us to this place.. It is not enough that you did not do it; you must stand and say this is wrong. Right now most of us, walk on by.

[write4change]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)

Posted by write4change (here)
I ask Nearing to post this for me. And for all those who are worried -- it has a G Rating.

I was watching this and realising that my non-human nature was watching and feeling really puzzled about it. I honestly can't read the energy signals in most of this- that's nothing new, there's a lot that I don't understand energetically about some practices- but I hadn't realised that the 'untrained' way I do tantra is vastly different from other practices. It also makes me curious that I feel adaptations of these sorts of practices would be possible for me with a *female*, but not a male. I simply have never experienced males being able to truly hold this kind of space in a way that doesn't feel- manipulative? Weird? Off signal? I can't really explain it, although I do recognise a completely different energetic signal if I tune into the Otherrealms.

What you are feeling is this is not real. These two people have no connection whatsoever other than professionals who want to do a basic illustration that is not controversial. Time wise it is also very compressed--less than eight minutes with something normally would last at least an hour.

What you see is an interaction that few contemplate much less do. A long porn session is 15 minutes. And average homemade porn with great intensity is 5. What I learned from all the net porn available is that people will stare wide eyed at the camera but never look at their partner. Men who are supposed to be so obessed with breasts rarely touch them. Women do more touching of themselves while men are screwing them, then men experiencing the female body.

My husband was a good lover. He could do a good intense 15 minutes even at 70 but this annointing of the senses, sharing the breath, opening the body etc for hours was something he tried once or twice when he was 58. And he was done with that. It was not in his vocabulary. LOL

My husband was probably one of the last old school guys who learned initially in what was quite common until the 50s. Television did not tell us like it is---it told us what it wanted us to believe. That all married coules slept in twin beds, that sex really was for procreation, that pregnancy was a word not to be used in public much less seen, etc. This is the world the fundies yearn for total control and total repression, and if you are to believe the art, the novels, the movies etc coming out of that period totally miserable.

On my husband's sixteenth birthday, his father took him for a week to New Orleans. There he gave him over to one of the best brothels of the city and departed, returning in a week to reclaim the new man. This was the father's favorite places to visit and he had periodically over the decades. He knew the women and they knew him. They were clean, self respecting, self caring, healthful and felt they had a good job to do. First, allowing men to stay married to their very frigid wives who were a product of the society of repression. Second, making sure their sons knew all the ins and outs of how various women functioned so the son could bring pleasure to his many loves and have the desire to love many. My husband visited high class call girls all his life until he met me and then he openly told me what he felt for me would not last. LOL Some of my husband's greatest stories is going hunting with his father. Which meant exchanging tales of the brothels as equals. What is also known is the wife and mother knew this and did not give a hoot as long as it was away from home territory and she was not bothered by it. My husband's family was reasonably well to do and growing up all his friends had parents with separate bedrooms. I thought my parents shared a bed because they were poor. LOL

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
Now I'm curious as to what that is.... *wanders off to play with the frequency*

I hope this works as I can see I messed up the quote and do not know what to do about it.

Clearly in tribes, Oceania, and ancient India, the old taught the young. It was grandfathers and grandmothers who were mentors to the young who mostly lived in communial type dormatories and were free to experiment while reaching maturity when they would then make mature choices having worked that out growing up. For sure this was practiced to the 1870s and there are many written accounts of what was found by the missionaries and their horror of it etc. It is not beyond the pale that older women had sex with young men and vice versa in a very natural and private way because they were learning. And it would be private because it was recognized that is was all done lovingly and no one was better than the others--just different. Thus, you were free to love who you pleased because love granted you love--it did not come with possessions.

Particularly on successful islands, they had stable populations, abudant food, good weather, and not much labor to survive. Life was good and there was no reason to sweat the small stuff. The only thing the big kahuna had that you did not have was more feathers in his hat and with that came a lot of aggravation. Being a chief was not an asipration, it came from growth and usually was determined by the women of the tribe.

Sort of a nutshell history which we will see what that brings.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

For those of you reading this--much of my reply to songs of the other kind is in the quote. I will have to be more careful in the future. Unless Paul comes around and fixes this. LOL


¤=[Post Update]=¤

Kilroy er eh Paul was here. Quote fixed, if I got it right.

[EnergyGardener]

Posted by write4change (here)

energygardner,

everything i "know" about sex and especially the deep and the profound has been taught by a man. Certainly, great male minds have spent not only a lot of time but lives sussing all this. Great male leaders now at this time, usually are married and/or with partners with whom they have deep and profound experiences and they bring that to their work. A man who is sexually satisfied has a glistening to his entire aura. They are very rare. But they will be the ones who hold this world together in some ways as we face this time. I see this darkly but do not yet see how it works. It may be part of why i am moved by the universe to write all this now.

I have been a sexually traumatized woman and particularly a young girl but my ability to get passed it; is much greater than an equally traumatized young male. I have worked with some of them even after 50. One man after 50, i recently worked with deliberately got aids. His father did him rear entry at 7 and the relationship lasted that way until 12. This man is as mean as a snake in all the metaphoric ways we say that. I am not the only one over his life that has worked with him. First, he feels maybe rightly or wrongly, i can't tell with him--that his mother colluded and this becomes an even bigger wound. Then coming from the south with patriarchy and possession, he feels like the whole world colluded. Knowing him as i do, the world is lucky that he is not a serial murderer but then he is not dead yet.

I tell these stories no to invoke revulsion but to give some real foundation to people understanding how sex is not what we do, but who we are. And that society imposing or not imposing a workable structure for people to find out freely when they are young who they are and who they are free to love if they choose is a foundation of angst--sorrow and anger--the west has been totally unwilling to face because the patriarchy authoritarian role is all about submission and possession.

I posted in another thread that the catholic church for centuries knowingly and publicly castrated young boys in hopes of retaining them as male sopranos. Many families sold their young sons to the church for this purpose. It took centuries for a consensus to be reached that this was totally immoral even thought sanctioned by the church. Once that consensus is reached; we develop amnesia and pretend it never happened. It is this kind of behavior regarding every institution that matters that is now not functioning that has brought us to this place.. It is not enough that you did not do it; you must stand and say this is wrong. Right now most of us, walk on by.

Write4Change,

A wonderful reciprocating male/female relationship, on all levels, is a gift to be treasured, likely in any dimension. The daily, lifetime and emanating benefits to all from that union and constant sharing, is infinitely helpful in ways we might not fully appreciate in our 3rd.

To make a difference, to end all tyrannical behavior, suppression, oppression—all those forces that have prevented us from accomplishing our missions of freedom from this realm—must be accomplished by us. That is why we are here.

Because the valuable lessons of the third, that we have gained, teach us that they will continue to be taught, but also too, more negative karma planted. So, enlightened, or having deemed ourselves lucky in any regard, must be used and realized as a gift of strength, to continue to free our family and friends still asleep in the third.

I believe this issue continues beyond 2012, but then, that is perhaps, another topic...

EnergyGardener

[EnergyGardener]

Nothing like a white man’s dampening to a woman’s colorful sex thread. Sorry about that. In my attempt to return life, I will provide the following insight:

GETTING IT.

This relates back to my discussion about the joke about the “Who Cares?” relative to a woman’s orgasm. While most thought it was funny (perhaps even understood), I saw its very idea, even as a joke, unacceptable. Because, we now know scientifically, the merits to both the woman and man from a woman’s orgasm: 1) movement and direction of the sperm from the provider of that orgasm, but to the long term of the relationship 2), the more permanent position that person holds within the female’s subconscious relates to the quantity and quality of the orgasms provided. On the non-scientific, but obvious level: 3) simply knowing that we have provided the best that we can for the most important person in our life is mandatory. On a not-so-antiseptic level, but this is what many boys dream for with their lover: 4) I can’t believe I am invited to do this! WOW!

To point number 4, which deserves its own paragraph. The right to enjoy the amazing privilege and wonderment of the woman’s body, the woman’s spirit, that pleased and thankful look from our/womens' eyes, sweaty passion and, even laughter, is won of the rewards men live for: The telltale signs of the appreciative receiver of success are infinite, but just a few are worth mentioning: light pressing on the lower back, not-so-light fingernails in the back, caressing, even pulling of one’s hair, pushing down of one’s head, and of course, wake-the-neighbors screaming with abandon (and the awkward conversations that follow):

“Mommy, why were you screaming?” “Daddy and I were just playing, honey, I’m okay.” “But why were you screaming, you sounded like he was hurting you?” “Daddy was tickling, me, honey. See, I’m fine.”

“Daddy, will you tickle me too?”

The man or woman that appreciates the smells, features, curves, mysteries, challenges, and yes, screams of one’s partner/s, likely also appreciates everything else infinitely beautiful of the magic of our wonderful Earth / Gaia: the splash of a raindrop, butterflies, bees, birds, all animals, flowers, seasons, wind, sun, stars, and of course, the incredible developments we are part of in this immediate universal change. How lucky are we!

So, the reward goes to couples that Get It, because, then perhaps, they will: Continue to Get It… Often! Even if not at the moment, then likely soon, when they/you do meet Mr. or Ms. Right—whom also, Gets It...

Part of Getting It; this must be remembered, even after each disagreement or difficult circumstances due to our differences / incompatibilities:

Love is a Decision, Not an Emotion!

While vast power emanates from the heart, that power—in order to be constructive—Love must be directed from the heart by the head—that head that sits upon our shoulders.

Okay, perhaps that wasn’t enough to bring color or fun back to your thread, perhaps still a bit boring…

Perhaps to your original thread title: …Get a Dog! Could be: Get a Dog or Train Yourselves and Discover a Get It Man!

I contend that we men are and happy to be dogs! We are willing to please. If we don’t get it quickly, then perhaps it does take some training, physical and mental conditioning! But, what man wouldn’t love the fun of the training from each session? Isn’t the idea itself crazy and fun? Why cannot this happen right now?

Women are the best teachers; Women are brilliant; Women have what men want; Women are the most beautiful creation ever accomplished. Why cannot women work together to train their men proper behavior, and also themselves, to insure that everyone Gets It.

Your courage and intelligence to start this post demonstrates that you recognize the problem. Can you provide a program for the solution? You certainly have everyone’s attention!

Does the apprehension to provide an easy inexpensive process of mutual discovery and attention (not everyone can afford or can be compelled to hire a beautiful sex therapist) prevent the discovery of worlds unknown for mankind in the 3rd, 5th, and all dimensions? Are our wounds and insecurities from past experiences so deep that we are too shy to create programs for Get It relationships?

Will men provide unconditional love? Yes, absolutely, Yes! Make yourself indispensible, so adored, that pleasing you is your man’s / dog’s greatest objective. Make yourself so adored, that disappointing you is the last event possible: Because your broken heart by your Get It man, would destroy him too.

Are you willing to provide a program / outline for all women to train / educate their dogs / men, so that everyone “Gets It?”

Cheers.

[Kimberley]

Thank you for that EnergyGardner!! You are for sure a gettin' it guy!
Much love!!

[write4change]

Okay Energygardner, I almost had a brain orgasm over that -- almost -- LOL

You have the essence -- LOVE IS A DECISION NOT AN EMOTION

Love is what you bring to the plate. In all my training, learning all kinds of techniques --- the I have it all, I am open to it all orgasm comes first from you -- you who are always both giver and receiver.


The problem is those are all words and until you feel this you -- for me and my experience -- you never get it.

I was able to bring that decision to those vets. This was not ****ing for me this was love at its most profound. My hope for them is that I could channel thru my body what I had learned.

When I reflect on the truth of what I am hearing from a teacher, the amount of credibility I give it-- is how much judgment is expressed and how much certitude. The three man I am into big time right now McKenna, Braeden, and Hancock have all had NDE, OBE, and substantial realtiy life threatening risk taking. No judgment, no finality, and no certitude come from any of these men.

I am reading McKenna from 1985 and 1987. He was five years younger than I and at least 50 years ahead. I am amazed at what he wrote then that I did not have an inkling of. I have to weave all these stories into what is appearing here. My thinking and meditating leading to fantastic lucid dreaming is full speed ahead after drifting quite a while.

When I reflect on the truth of what I have experienced, I ask what changed in me? My proof to me is that I am changed and I will never be the same. All three of these men say that. So did Jung, Krishnamurti, R.D. Laing. Some experiences like the NDE can take years to process fully, but the orgasm of love--you, your lover, and the universe--is instant and eternal. You can always return to that feeling to sustain you. At least, for me and I have tested that out big time.

So when people tell me they are enlightened or whatever --- they are laying out a judgment. And I go not yet, but you have begun and I have no need to say that. Everyone tests that out in their own way and in their own time. I only get somewhat upset when they lay out THIS IS THE WAY. Most of the time I withdraw. Right now the universe says to me stand like a willow and bend thru all the storms.

This was a life process for me that began with a gift. Grace from the universe. I need the depth of the night to go there. Now I have to come back and deal with problems of the world as long as I live in this body --- I must balance the sacred and the profane. You cannot live entirely in one or the other which is where people of certitude want to go and that way is profane to the way of the universe which is constant creation. Not only are the answers changing but so are the questions.

Thank you , gardner you planted well. Tonight I will bloom.