The Bible

[NeverMind]

As Chris has pointed out, Revelations has been muscle tested and is of such a low vibration, it is worse than any GFL channeling today.

Not only the Book of Revelation but also the Old Testament do have a potential for spreading fear, of course.
However, the message of the New Testament - Christ teachings, no more and no less - allows for no fear, quite the opposite. It is very simple and very clear. The fact that some people think it can be distorted doesn't mean that it really can.

For the sake of the discussion I have to mention - in case it's not clear - that I am arguing from the perspective of the NT itself here, in this thread.
(However, I do personally believe in the message of the NT, namely Christ's teachings. They are the "golden standard" by which I try to shape myself and live my life.)

[gripreaper]

Posted by NeverMind (here)

As Chris has pointed out, Revelations has been muscle tested and is of such a low vibration, it is worse than any GFL channeling today.

Not only the Book of Revelation but also the Old Testament do have a potential for spreading fear, of course.
However, the message of the New Testament - Christ teachings, no more and no less - allows for no fear, quite the opposite. It is very simple and very clear. The fact that some people think it can be distorted doesn't mean that it really can.

For the sake of the discussion I have to mention - in case it's not clear - that I am arguing from the perspective of the NT itself here, in this thread.
(However, I do personally believe in the message of the NT, namely Christ's teachings. They are the "golden standard" by which I try to shape myself and live my life.)

Too bad the Roman's took the truth taught by Yeshua and Magdeline, distorted it, left out the parts that did not fit into their patriarchal control system, and then proceeded to hunt down and murder anyone who went against their new found religion.

The truth is that there must be a balance between the masculine and feminine energies, and that Yeshua and Magdeline were in relationship and had offspring, and that the Essene's were the descendants of the ancient Gnostics who understood how energy works and how both polarities are needed in order to animate life, as well as to affect manifestation.

The NT has much truth to it, but it is not the whole story.

[NeverMind]

The NT has much truth to it, but it is not the whole story.

There may be bits missing - and also bits added without apparent rhyme or reason (such as the Book of Apocalypse) - but the essence of the message is there in its entirety, quite clear, in my opinion, consistent throughout all the four gospels, and even in later apocryphal stories (which is quite telling - see my previous post regarding the story of the woman caught in adultery):

- Love others as you would love yourself, with no exceptions
- Forgive unconditionally
- Do not judge
- Faith, hope and love for others ("charity") is all you need

Period.
No buts, no ifs.

[cloud9]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
RedeZra could you be confusing God's will with religion?

Now at one stroke the catholic church made my first off spring bastards and me living in sin unmarried for ten years.
So by saying God forbids sex out with marriage you have made me a sinner big time Red---- I dont mind.

we all fall short of the glory of God and our righteousness is like rags


God instituted marriage

as the core family unit within organized society

for the good of ourselves our neighbours and children


today everythin has disintegrated

and that is the reason God is about to return


i know of much greater sins than livin together not married ; )

Red,
can you please let me know where in the bible says that God instituted marriage? I was having a conversation a few days ago and the subject came up but we couldn't find it.

[RedeZra]

Posted by cloud9 (here)
Red,
can you please let me know where in the bible says that God instituted marriage? I was having a conversation a few days ago and the subject came up but we couldn't find it.

marriage has been the tradition since Adam and Eve and when asked about it Jesus refers to Genesis



The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for [just] any reason?"

And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made [them] at the beginning 'made them male and female,'

"and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?

"So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."


They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"

He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, [fn] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."


His disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of the man with [his] wife, it is better not to marry."

But He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only [those] to whom it has been given:

"For there are eunuchs who were born thus from [their] mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept [it], let him accept [it]." - Matthew 19:3-12

[gooty64]

can you guys see the nightmare you are in?

[greybeard]

Posted by gooty64 (here)
can you guys see the nightmare you are in?

.

Im not in that nightmare
The first three letters of DOGma are God back to front--- reckon religion got God back to front and inside out.
Heaven help anyone who believes that a man who marries a divorced woman is committing adultery.
Judge not said Jesus--- parts of the bible makes it well nigh impossible not only not to judge but condemn as well.
Love they neighbor as long as he is not going against the law by marrying a divorced woman is implied.

Chris

[RedeZra]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Heaven help anyone who believes that a man who marries a divorced woman is committing adultery.

Jesus as He is presented in the New Testament is as strict as the God of Israel

but also quick to forgive

[Prayer Warrior]

[QUOTE=gripreaper;454134]

Posted by NeverMind (here)

As Chris has pointed out, Revelations has been muscle tested and is of such a low vibration, it is worse than any GFL channeling today.

Not only the Book of Revelation but also the Old Testament do have a potential for spreading fear, of course.
However, the message of the New Testament - Christ teachings, no more and no less - allows for no fear, quite the opposite. It is very simple and very clear. The fact that some people think it can be distorted doesn't mean that it really can.

For the sake of the discussion I have to mention - in case it's not clear - that I am arguing from the perspective of the NT itself here, in this thread.
(However, I do personally believe in the message of the NT, namely Christ's teachings. They are the "golden standard" by which I try to shape myself and live my life.)

thanks

[greybeard]

Posted by NeverMind (here)

The NT has much truth to it, but it is not the whole story.

There may be bits missing - and also bits added without apparent rhyme or reason (such as the Book of Apocalypse) - but the essence of the message is there in its entirety, quite clear, in my opinion, consistent throughout all the four gospels, and even in later apocryphal stories (which is quite telling - see my previous post regarding the story of the woman caught in adultery):

- Love others as you would love yourself, with no exceptions
- Forgive unconditionally
- Do not judge
- Faith, hope and love for others ("charity") is all you need

Period.
No buts, no ifs.

Thanks Never Mind
I think that is the true message and one to aspire to
Chris

[RedeZra]

Posted by cellardoor (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by cellardoor (here)
King Herod died in 4 BCE, the Roman Census took place in 6 CE, so the nativity tale that claims that both the Census and Herod's "massacre" took place within months of each other is an obvious fabrication.

king Herod the Great did not die in 4 BC but in 1 BC


he died after a lunar eclipse and before Passover

as Josephus writes in his Jewish Antiquities


on Jan 9 1 BC there was a total lunar eclipse seen from Jerusalem

and this is the eclipse which Josephus writes about


after the death of Herod the Great this client kingdom of Rome was divided between three of his sons by Augustus

who counted 4 BC as the beginning of their reign

as Antipater II son of Herod the Great who was made sole successor after his father was executed in 4 BC

( for trying to poison his father Herod the Great )

and so in 4 BC Augustus approved the death sentence of Antipater II and Archelaus another son of Herod was made heir in his father's will as king over this client kingdom of Rome

but with two other sons Antipas and Philip II as rulers over certain territories

What you are saying is highly debatable red, and in any case it doesn't take anything away from the original contradiction I posted.

the Roman Census in Luke did not take place in 6 AD but in 2 BC


there was a local tax census in Iudaea in 6 AD when Quirinius was legate or governor of Syria

but the Roman Empire Census in 2 BC was an oath of allegiance to Augustus

who was awarded the title Pater Patriae in his 25th regnal year as Emperor of Rome


http://www.askelm.com/star/star014.htm

[RedeZra]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
The truth is that there must be a balance between the masculine and feminine energies, and that Yeshua and Magdeline were in relationship and had offspring, and that the Essene's were the descendants of the ancient Gnostics who understood how energy works and how both polarities are needed in order to animate life, as well as to affect manifestation.

this is not the truth

Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a spiritual relationship and not a sexual one


and the Essenes was a Jewish sect like the Pharisees and the Sadducees

Gnosticism is just corruption of Christianity

[jcocks]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

this is not the truth

Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a spiritual relationship and not a sexual one


and the Essenes was a Jewish sect like the Pharisees and the Sadducees

Gnosticism is just corruption of Christianity

That's what all christians say. But do you have proof (NOT the bible, that doesn't count in this instance.)?

[cellardoor]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by cellardoor (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by cellardoor (here)
King Herod died in 4 BCE, the Roman Census took place in 6 CE, so the nativity tale that claims that both the Census and Herod's "massacre" took place within months of each other is an obvious fabrication.

king Herod the Great did not die in 4 BC but in 1 BC


he died after a lunar eclipse and before Passover

as Josephus writes in his Jewish Antiquities


on Jan 9 1 BC there was a total lunar eclipse seen from Jerusalem

and this is the eclipse which Josephus writes about


after the death of Herod the Great this client kingdom of Rome was divided between three of his sons by Augustus

who counted 4 BC as the beginning of their reign

as Antipater II son of Herod the Great who was made sole successor after his father was executed in 4 BC

( for trying to poison his father Herod the Great )

and so in 4 BC Augustus approved the death sentence of Antipater II and Archelaus another son of Herod was made heir in his father's will as king over this client kingdom of Rome

but with two other sons Antipas and Philip II as rulers over certain territories

What you are saying is highly debatable red, and in any case it doesn't take anything away from the original contradiction I posted.

the Roman Census in Luke did not take place in 6 AD but in 2 BC


there was a local tax census in Iudaea in 6 AD when Quirinius was legate or governor of Syria

but the Roman Empire Census in 2 BC was an oath of allegiance to Augustus

who was awarded the title Pater Patriae in his 25th regnal year as Emperor of Rome


http://www.askelm.com/star/star014.htm

Who are you trying to kid Red? The history of the bible doesn't add up, this has been an embarrassment for the church for a long time. Surly you can see the inconsistencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius

In Christianity, the Gospel of Luke connects the birth of Jesus to a census of the "entire" Roman world in which individuals had to return to their ancestral cities. Jesus' parents, Joseph and Mary, travel from their home in Nazareth, Galilee, to Bethlehem, where Jesus is born. This explains how Jesus, a Galilean, could have been born in Bethlehem in Judea, the city of King David. No other record of such a census exists, and there was no practice in the Roman Empire of requiring people to returning to an ancestral city for a census.[3][4] The Gospel of Matthew, which has a different birth narrative, describes Jesus' birth taking place during the life of Herod the Great, who died ten years earlier, in the spring of 4 BC. Biblical scholars, troubled by the apparent contradiction in Scripture,[5] have traditionally sought to harmonise these accounts, while most critical scholars regard this as an error by the author of the Gospel of Luke.[6]

In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child. (Luke 2:1-7—NRSV)
This passage has long been considered problematic by Biblical scholars, since it places the birth of Jesus around the time of the census in 6/7, whereas the Gospel of Matthew indicates a birth during or just after the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 BC, nine years earlier.[17] In addition, no historical sources mention a worldwide or even a Roman-controlled world census which would cover the population as a whole; those of Augustus covered Roman citizens only;[18] and it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes.[19]

[Beren]

Jcocks,

That's what all christians say. But do you have proof (NOT the bible, that doesn't count in this instance.)?

Do you have the proof of your claims and of course they CANNOT be Gnostic works...

As you said for Bible same goes for Gnostic works-that doesn't counts...

The question:

Why would a person unified with Creator of all life take a woman for a wife and had children with her ?
Gnosticism claim higher knowledge but fails in premise in blood lines or sticking to it.
If you want to hold to the blood lines then you are not different from those who rule this world.
For they also claim certain blood lines.

When talking about bloodlines no one talks about the spirit behind the body.
So why would a being who can create life want to create a bloodline for an unknown cause ?

Can't you see the failure of this Gnostic argument about Christ's children and wife?
This statement is watering down the true meaning of why Christ came- to uplift fallen consciousness into its true nature-heavenly spiritual one.
Not the bodily connection one in pursuing making marriage and having kids...

Maybe the hidden desire to rule the world is behind the Gnostic claims to have the seed or blood line ,hence the right to rule the world.

This very claim is childish at least for the one who created the Earth with other spirits of immense power is not interested to rule it for he owns it.
Here we see the human desire for power , hidden agendas no matter how positive they may appear.

Christ didn't came to lower himself into Earth's business in becoming earthy king or rules and having physical progeny... that's silly compared to his true nature and power over universe.
And he called us to reclaim our true power with him aswell.

So I leave ones who desire to run countries and have subjects to its kindergarden games and claim my right as soul- to be where Christ is now.

[greybeard]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
The truth is that there must be a balance between the masculine and feminine energies, and that Yeshua and Magdeline were in relationship and had offspring, and that the Essene's were the descendants of the ancient Gnostics who understood how energy works and how both polarities are needed in order to animate life, as well as to affect manifestation.

this is not the truth

Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a spiritual relationship and not a sexual one


and the Essenes was a Jewish sect like the Pharisees and the Sadducees

Gnosticism is just corruption of Christianity

We dont know this for sure Red
The fact that Mary anointed Jesus with oil would tend to suggest that they were married as I think tradition said that only a married woman was permitted to do this and only for her husband
The bible is full of paradox.
As for children of that union--- thats an entirely different matter-- again--- who knows?
Chris

[cellardoor]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
The truth is that there must be a balance between the masculine and feminine energies, and that Yeshua and Magdeline were in relationship and had offspring, and that the Essene's were the descendants of the ancient Gnostics who understood how energy works and how both polarities are needed in order to animate life, as well as to affect manifestation.

I see him as a sort of communist revolutionary, the original che Guevara except he wanted to be at the head of this totalitarian regime, touting himself as King of the Jews. He wanted to be the first Jewish dictator. Here are some of his communist/fascist ideologies.

1. He threw the moneychangers out of the temple and called them theives. They were just ordinary businessmen in a laissez-faire economy.

2. He said, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

3. He encouraged people to give everything they could, and promised that god would support everyone in need. Just like socialism.

[edit]Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."[/edit]

4. "turn the other cheek"

5. "love thy enemy"

6. "blessed are the peacemakers"

7. "blessed are the meek"

8. "woe unto ye who are rich"

9. "forgive our debts, as we forgive our debtors" -- clearly he would favor bailing out poor people with subprime mortgages.

10. "Give us this day our daily bread" -- what a sense of entitlement to demand handouts!!!

11. "Every mountain shall be made low, every valley shall be exalted" --although this is actually from Isaiah's prophecy about the messiah, it looks like a metaphor for proletarian revolution

12. Some early christians (before 200BC) actually established agricultural communes.

13. Jesus is soft on crime: anybody who believes in his scapegoat-like sacrifice will be forgiven.

14. Jesus loves the poor, the prostitutes, the lepers, etc. And he gave them free healthcare! That's not what Ronald Reagan or John McCain would do.

15. Jesus said nothing about or against homosexuality.

16. "and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy father which is in secret" -- clearly Jesus opposes school prayer.

17. Jesus performed the "miracle of the loaves and fish" -- divine government handouts for the poor.

18. "ask and it shall be given to you. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened" -- giving the poor a sense of entitlement

19. "Blessed are the merciful"

20. "And if any man will sue thee, and take away thy cloak, let him have thy coat also. And whosoever shall compell thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" -- He clearly favors caving in to terrorist demands, and giving the poor everything they want. Pacifist hippie communist!!!



So why do people who call themselves "christian conservatives" have nearly opposite views to most of the things in this list?

[/QUOTE]

[Beren]

Posted by cellardoor (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
The truth is that there must be a balance between the masculine and feminine energies, and that Yeshua and Magdeline were in relationship and had offspring, and that the Essene's were the descendants of the ancient Gnostics who understood how energy works and how both polarities are needed in order to animate life, as well as to affect manifestation.

I see him as a sort of communist revolutionary, the original che Guevara except he wanted to be at the head of this totalitarian regime, touting himself as King of the Jews. He wanted to be the first Jewish dictator. Here are some of his communist/fascist ideologies.

1. He threw the moneychangers out of the temple and called them theives. They were just ordinary businessmen in a laissez-faire economy.

2. He said, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

3. He encouraged people to give everything they could, and promised that god would support everyone in need. Just like socialism.

[edit]Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."[/edit]

4. "turn the other cheek"

5. "love thy enemy"

6. "blessed are the peacemakers"

7. "blessed are the meek"

8. "woe unto ye who are rich"

9. "forgive our debts, as we forgive our debtors" -- clearly he would favor bailing out poor people with subprime mortgages.

10. "Give us this day our daily bread" -- what a sense of entitlement to demand handouts!!!

11. "Every mountain shall be made low, every valley shall be exalted" --although this is actually from Isaiah's prophecy about the messiah, it looks like a metaphor for proletarian revolution

12. Some early christians (before 200BC) actually established agricultural communes.

13. Jesus is soft on crime: anybody who believes in his scapegoat-like sacrifice will be forgiven.

14. Jesus loves the poor, the prostitutes, the lepers, etc. And he gave them free healthcare! That's not what Ronald Reagan or John McCain would do.

15. Jesus said nothing about or against homosexuality.

16. "and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy father which is in secret" -- clearly Jesus opposes school prayer.

17. Jesus performed the "miracle of the loaves and fish" -- divine government handouts for the poor.

18. "ask and it shall be given to you. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened" -- giving the poor a sense of entitlement

19. "Blessed are the merciful"

20. "And if any man will sue thee, and take away thy cloak, let him have thy coat also. And whosoever shall compell thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" -- He clearly favors caving in to terrorist demands, and giving the poor everything they want. Pacifist hippie communist!!!



So why do people who call themselves "christian conservatives" have nearly opposite views to most of the things in this list?

[/QUOTE]


Sounds like you support the system in which the planet is currently with these statements...

[greybeard]

"Go forth and multiply" has all kinds of connotations.
If you take it that the bible is to be taken literally--- there was only Adam and Eve to begin with then their off spring/relatives went out and found others.
There also seems to have been massive cities within a relatively short time.
They must have multiplied very rapidly.
There also seems to have been very strict laws as to when man and wife could have intercourse.
As said I dont know--- Im just casting bread on the water--- to see what comes up.
Really non the wiser.
Chris

[cellardoor]

Posted by Beren (here)
Jcocks,

That's what all christians say. But do you have proof (NOT the bible, that doesn't count in this instance.)?

Do you have the proof of your claims and of course they CANNOT be Gnostic works...

As you said for Bible same goes for Gnostic works-that doesn't counts...

The question:

Why would a person unified with Creator of all life take a woman for a wife and had children with her ?
Gnosticism claim higher knowledge but fails in premise in blood lines or sticking to it.
If you want to hold to the blood lines then you are not different from those who rule this world.
For they also claim certain blood lines.

When talking about bloodlines no one talks about the spirit behind the body.
So why would a being who can create life want to create a bloodline for an unknown cause ?

Can't you see the failure of this Gnostic argument about Christ's children and wife?
This statement is watering down the true meaning of why Christ came- to uplift fallen consciousness into its true nature-heavenly spiritual one.
Not the bodily connection one in pursuing making marriage and having kids...

Maybe the hidden desire to rule the world is behind the Gnostic claims to have the seed or blood line ,hence the right to rule the world.

This very claim is childish at least for the one who created the Earth with other spirits of immense power is not interested to rule it for he owns it.
Here we see the human desire for power , hidden agendas no matter how positive they may appear.

Christ didn't came to lower himself into Earth's business in becoming earthy king or rules and having physical progeny... that's silly compared to his true nature and power over universe.
And he called us to reclaim our true power with him aswell.

So I leave ones who desire to run countries and have subjects to its kindergarden games and claim my right as soul- to be where Christ is now.

Christ didn't came to lower himself into Earth's business in becoming earthy king or rules and having physical progeny... that's silly compared to his true nature and power over universe.
And he called us to reclaim our true power with him aswell.

On contraire if you read my last post you will see that he was heavily involved with the politics of the time, why else would he march into the so called "Den of thieves" with an entourage of poor Jews. He was a trouble maker. And he was well aware of it. It was against Roman law to appoint your self as king as Jesus did. After the crucifixion above Jesus's head read " This is Jesus, the King of the Jews".

The whole Idea that the Gnosics were the blood line protectors of Jesus is completely wrong. They were directly opposed to Yahweh, and if they were claiming to be Christians it would have only been to escape persecution. This all comes from the word Sangraal, the infamous holy grail, and if you manipulate the word you get Sang raal or real which means Royal Blood. The genius of the Gnostics is apparent when you realise that actual Dialectic of sangraal is Sangra Al or Bleeding Al. Al refering to Al-Uzza a goddess from Petra. I have done some research and found out that Al-Uzza is non other than Lilith. Just look at the similarities:

Lilith and Al-Uzza share the characteristic of being "winged" .

Al-Uzza is described among Al-Lat and Manat as "exalted cranes" of intercession.
Lilith is described as uttering the unspeakable name of God and flying away on magickal wings.
Lilith's children are also associated with having "wings of a stork."

Lilith and Al-Uzza are both hit on the head to symbolize their destruction.

Al-Uzza is described as being bledgoned in the head by a rock.
Lilith, as the serpent in the Garden of Eden, is said to have her head bruised.

Lilith and Al-Uzza are connected to demonic forces.

Lilith bears demons at a rate of over a hundred a day.
Al-Uzza is connected to Venus which appears in the morning and evening. In Arabia sunrise and sunset were considered dangerous times of demonic presence and energy.

Lilith and Al-Uzza were both driven out of their home-trees.

Lilith was driven out of the huluppu tree.
Al-Uzza was driven from the Acacia tree.

Lilith and Al-Uzza are both associated with lions.

The Burney Relief, a modern representation of Lilith, portrays her as standing on two lions.
Al-Uzza's place of worship is the Temple of the Winged Lions.

Lilith and Al-Uzza's trees contain serpents.

Lilith's tree is said to have a serpent or dragon in it.
Al-Uzza's acacia trees are described as containing a "silver serpent."

Lilith and Al-Uzza are both associated with water.

Lilith is said to live by the Red Sea.
Al-Uzza is associated with dolphins and the sea.

Lilith and Al-Uzza are both connected to women's menstrual cycles.

Lilith made love to Eve, and caused the menstrual cycle.
Al-Uzza's acacia tree is associated in modern times with the menstrual cycle.

Lilith and Al-Uzza are both connected to the moon.

Lilith is associated with the moon.
Al-Uzza is said to come from the Moon, but is the ruler of Venus.

The Gnostics are master code makers. They pretend to be their enemy to full fill their mission. Which was nothing other than to Kill Yahweh. Why? because he has demonized femininity, in particular feminine sexuality. He reduced their Goddess to an abomination. This goes back to the time of Solomon who was the first Davidic king with any backbone. The soul purpose of Yahweh is to quash the female dominated sex religions. The purpose of gnosticism is to bring it back.