"Do you believe in God?"

[evancruz1]

I often think how people cannot believe in something more!
how borring life must be if you do not think something is there with you all the time helping and protecting you.
Why would you want to live without faith?[/QUOTE]



I agree with you 100%

[markpierre]

Who started the rumor that perception and an unpredictable confused and uncertain duration in the limitations of human experience is what 'life' is?

[kreagle]

Many, like "Thomas", require to the point of "almost demanding",......a "hands on experience", before they will believe in God.

Unless you, like "Thomas", are fortunate enough to actually "happen to be there at the time",.....your "requirements and demands" are going to wind up being unfulfilled and you'll wind up leaving "empty handed".

John 20:24-31
King James Version (KJV)

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

One of the most colossal mistakes a person can make, and "is" being made today, is to wait around for God to "prove" Himself to you!

This is "why" God, as our Master Creator, has equipped each and every one of us with the "measure of faith".

Romans 12:3
King James Version (KJV)

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Every "great man and woman" of God, within the Scriptures, have been required to live by "faith". I challenge each of you to take the time to read the entire chapter of Hebrews, chapter 11. If these great men and women of God were required to live by faith, ....who am I, .....or you,....to not have the "same requirement"?

"Sandwiched" in between this wonderful chapter of Hebrews is the following scripture:

Hebrews 11:6
King James Version (KJV)

6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Many people use their "faith" in a variety of ways. Some put it in the Stock Market, political leaders, governments, society, intellectualism, friends, families, and even their "favorite sports franchises".

How many of you can honestly say that of the "aforementioned list above" that "every single one of these" have failed you at one time or the other?

The simple answer is that "we all can"!!!

This is just a simple matter of "faith" being badly misplaced!!!

Place your "faith" in the area where it "really belongs",......place it in God!

(Note: I have included a previous Avalon post dealing with the "original Gospel Message" that I made back in November. Perhaps there are some of you who missed this and it can be of use to you!!!)

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-be-the-CHURCH

Love,...Peace,...and have "faith" in the Gospel Message!,.......kreagle

[Ellisa]

I don't believe god exists. I cannot prove he/she/it does not exist any more than someone who believes can prove their belief.

God exists because of the belief of the believer. If I were to believe in the existence of god, then ***!!! @@@ pow! --- there he/she/it is. I don't believe so, for me, god does not exist.

I see no reason why others should think as I do. I do not seek to ridicule believers or penalise them because of their beliefs. There are numerous places in the world where I could not state that I do not believe there is a god, or the supernatural or a state which is divine. If I lived in a place where belief in a god of some sort were to be mandatory I would probably pretend I believe in god. How would anyone know I don't? Belief, or in my case the lack of it, is internal and private.

I personally know that god does not exist. Nothing can prove otherwise!

[evancruz1]

Yesterday I went up to Mt. Baldy, I live close by so that is my get away spot. At no other time is it so obvious to me that this world with all of it's perfect harmonic rhythm is no accident. No cars, planes, trains, or sirens... Just squirrels, birds, and insects, with absolutely no man made sounds.
This is when I feel the presence of our creator... All around me... I become one with the forest around me, even the animals seem to no longer be affected by my presence.

I know I'm not alone here...

[kreagle]

Posted by Ellisa (here)
I don't believe god exists. I cannot prove he/she/it does not exist any more than someone who believes can prove their belief.

God exists because of the belief of the believer. If I were to believe in the existence of god, then ***!!! @@@ pow! --- there he/she/it is. I don't believe so, for me, god does not exist.

I see no reason why others should think as I do. I do not seek to ridicule believers or penalise them because of their beliefs. There are numerous places in the world where I could not state that I do not believe there is a god, or the supernatural or a state which is divine. If I lived in a place where belief in a god of some sort were to be mandatory I would probably pretend I believe in god. How would anyone know I don't? Belief, or in my case the lack of it, is internal and private.

I personally know that god does not exist. Nothing can prove otherwise!

Ellisa,

I would like to say that you are one of the fortunate ones who are exempt from having to face any potential "foxhole moments",......but in reality,...you are not!

No one, in life, is exempt from the "foxhole moments of life" that we all have to face, somewhere along the line, in our own individual lives.

Herein is where the problem lies, in that,....."there are no atheists in foxholes!"

When a person's "personal foxhole moment" becomes serious enough, you'll find yourself reaching down and grabbing hold of a part of your soul that you never knew existed to begin with.

A very dear friend of mine, who pastors a Church now, related a very telling and totally true account that happen before him while in Vietnam, as a young soldier. There happened to be "three fellow soldiers" who were atheists and bombarded him daily because of his beliefs. Each day, my young friend would pray earnestly to God for his life and the lives of his "fellow soldiers",.....only to face fierce opposition and ridicule from these "three atheist soldiers" later in the day. Day after day, the same routine would replay itself with......prayer in the morning,.....and ridicule afterward,....with seemingly no end in sight from this torturous routine.

Until one fateful day there in Vietnam, when his platoon was ambushed. At the onset of the onslaught, everyone had hurriedly flung themselves in the "foxholes" they had prepared earlier in the day. It was there, deeply nestled in his foxhole, that my friend heard many "terrifying sounds" coming from all around him. Many of these "sounds" were the "last sounds" that many of his fellow soldiers would make, in that they lost two thirds of their platoon on that fateful day. The sound that stood out to my friend above all of the "other sounds" that he heard that day came from "another foxhole" close to his proximity and came from none other than his "atheist friends"! Only "this time" their verbal display would be completely "about-face" from their previous position,....for they were "all" now calling on the "name of Jesus" for salvation of their very lives!!!

As I stated earlier,....there are "no atheists in foxholes"!!!

Please don't wait until you are faced with a "serious foxhole moment" before you finally recognize that He truly exists!

He's more real than you, or I, ever thought about being!,.....and He has an abundant life in store for you,....."if" you ever decide to reach out to Him!!!

John 10:10
King James Version (KJV)

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Love,...Peace,....and have "faith" in the Gospel Message,.......kreagle

[Rantaak]

Posted by Conaire (here)
[Lengthy dialogue wherein multiple morons cavort around attempting to stimulate the readers' reptilian complexes]

This is an ancient argument for the case of blind faith, not for the case of a consciousness whose mind is the universe.

That's the only god there is and any dignified man or woman bows to no-one.

[danwa]

I do not offer you a theory, for by definition that is just another belief. Go ahead and get past that now, theory and belief are the same thing. One can not be better than the other, all things equal, the differences among them clearly a matter of choice. So instead of yet another theory, I will simply offer an observation. It need not be more complicated than that.

Up until this very moment in time, both science and religion have made their best efforts to explain our creation. We have discovered some truly amazing things, yet the evidence we seek of our creation continues to elude us despite of our efforts and in spite of our technological and theological advances.

One theory or another has been promoted throughout our known history. Many have been accepted based loosely on the fact that they support a previous theory and many co-exist in direct contradiction with eachother. Some are complete and utter BS and the rest barely scratch the surface of truth. All of them in part or in their entirety, are based on theory.

I ask you to consider this simple observable paradox. The farther we look the bigger things get and the closer we look the bigger things get. How can this be? Impossible you say? Impossible indeed, but nonetheless, there it is staring us right in the face and as real as the sun in the sky.

We can currently "see" about 15 billion light years into space. In five or ten years we might likely be able to see 16 to 20 billion light years out. In one hundred years, perhaps 30 billion light years. In one thousand years even further. Conversely, we peer into the subatomic world and we "see" an atom. We have sufficient evidence of much smaller objects and can observe the effect of a proton, a neutron and an electron although we can not "see" them. We theorize that there are things even smaller, such as quarks and so it appears the closer we look the more there is to see.

We will continue to look and we will no doubt continue to find there is more. We will develop more theories and beliefs and adjust our current theories and beliefs to accomodate what we find there, blissfully ignoring simple observation for an ever more complex theory.

Whether it be an old man with a grey beard looking down upon us from the heavens or simply the source of energy necessary to set the whole thing in motion, it does not matter for they are one and the same. We look right at the impossibilty of the parodox in front of us and fail to "see" that the impossible is what defines God.

There you have it, just a simple observation nothing more. No right or wrong, no theory or belief required, just look out and look in and there it is. The observable impossibility of the infinite and the observable possibilty of God.

[Chester]

here's one -

god is undefinable...


... and not even that

[markpierre]

Posted by danwa (here)

We will continue to look and we will no doubt continue to find there is more. We will develop more theories and beliefs and adjust our current theories and beliefs to accomodate what we find there, blissfully ignoring simple observation for an ever more complex theory.

I really like that line. It would never occur to anyone that because it doesn't stop, there's no point in it. Nice post danwa. I really enjoyed you.

The problem really is just that 'conceptual' thinking doesn't see anything. But it has to endlessly report on whatever it is that it's looking at, but not really seeing. It's always observing everything just after its already gone.
Even 10'000 years after for god sake. Ooops*****missed it! Here it comes again! Make a video.

I think the same boredom must set in, in listening to stupid stories about the suspicious neighbor, or about what God is, that would set in, in never finding the end of the universe.
I think it works somewhat that way in every decision to ascend further.
There's GOT to be more than this.

I think you just use it all up and get tired of it. Or you crack, and can't hold it together anymore. I think those are the best methods, since that's how every Spiritual path works anyway.
If you don't find disillusionment in everything including the path (especially if you've found a way to be a successful identity in it), you don't find out what it's covering.

Seems slow and lackadaisical, and it has been.
Time for something radical like 'shut up for a minute'. Reality is trying to get a word in.

"The impossible is what defines God." If I can remember what Jesus said in ACIM something about how 'a miracle' (any kind of miracle) is a moment in time where a crack in the mindset appears,
and Reality is able to be seen.

Cheers. Really nice post. Good answer. Hey, whatever God is, he's really big, eh?

[ulli]

The fact that I have had thousands of prayers answered and managed to get rescued by some invisible force, interacting against all the odds, out of hundreds of messes shows me that there are forces at work which put things right and bring about momentary perfection.
And the more I think about this the more it happens.
Meanwhile those who think about the non existence of God get life experiences which then confirm their non belief.
That alone should make anyone wonder how the quantum field works.

[panopticon]

G'day All,

Here's a really funny 2 hour chat from a reformed Catholic, Julia Sweeney.
I wasn't familiar with any of the Catholic rituals and such mentioned in it but still found it hilarious!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ri3-DpSn7AA

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[danwa]

Posted by markpierre (here)

Posted by danwa (here)

We will continue to look and we will no doubt continue to find there is more. We will develop more theories and beliefs and adjust our current theories and beliefs to accomodate what we find there, blissfully ignoring simple observation for an ever more complex theory.

I really like that line. It would never occur to anyone that because it doesn't stop, there's no point in it. Nice post danwa. I really enjoyed you.

The problem really is just that 'conceptual' thinking doesn't see anything. But it has to endlessly report on whatever it is that it's looking at, but not really seeing. It's always observing everything just after its already gone.
Even 10'000 years after for god sake. Ooops*****missed it! Here it comes again! Make a video.

I think the same boredom must set in, in listening to stupid stories about the suspicious neighbor, or about what God is, that would set in, in never finding the end of the universe.
I think it works somewhat that way in every decision to ascend further.
There's GOT to be more than this.

I think you just use it all up and get tired of it. Or you crack, and can't hold it together anymore. I think those are the best methods, since that's how every Spiritual path works anyway.
If you don't find disillusionment in everything including the path (especially if you've found a way to be a successful identity in it), you don't find out what it's covering.

Seems slow and lackadaisical, and it has been.
Time for something radical like 'shut up for a minute'. Reality is trying to get a word in.

"The impossible is what defines God." If I can remember what Jesus said in ACIM something about how 'a miracle' (any kind of miracle) is a moment in time where a crack in the mindset appears,
and Reality is able to be seen.

Cheers. Really nice post. Good answer. Hey, whatever God is, he's really big, eh?

Mark - He/she must indeed be really big, but compared to what? God is everything and nothing, God is infinite. I don't think we find God, he finds us. Sometimes we forget along our way that there are people in our life's that mean so much to us and yet the hustle and bustle of life forces us to fail to communicate our love, to express how we really feel. We think we will make time later, but later comes and goes. Take the time to tell those you love how dear they are to you and how much that means to you. Every moment is precious, we have to share our hearts with those we love and perhaps more importantly, we have to make time to share our love with those we have not yet loved. We have to reach out and we have to reach in. There are millions of people that just a single word spoken in love or simply a warm smile will change their whole essence of being.

I am not a religious man. I am very scientifically oriented and educated. In my search for God (yes, I looked far and wide), I found everything but what it was I was looking for. Everybody had a God to sell, but the price was always more about money or personal gain or belonging to this group or that. I don't think God wants us to be divided. God does not have to be a being and likely is not. I think God is energy and that he shared some of that energy with us. We are here to learn, to experience, to make choices, to love and to share. I don't think God judges our actions in this life and seldom interferes. He has provided us with an opportunity to share our lives with others and I like to think he takes pride in our ability to share our love and happiness, however large or small. It matters not if we succeed, it matters that we tried.

We are his light. If we shine in love and kindness, if we share our experiences and reach out to others that may benefit from our presence, God smiles.

It is widely accepted that energy (matter) can not be created or destroyed. When the time comes, our energy will transform into another form of energy. I like to think that the intensity of that light is influenced by our deeds in this life. Perhaps our energy returns to the cosmos, perhaps another dimension. It really is not important, our energy will carry on. What is important is that our light shine in love so that it might radiate across the universe for eternity carrying our message, our essence, our love.

God is what you make of him. Live your life to the fullest and share your love and happiness and God will find your beacon for it will shine as bright as the stars.

[Titan Orion]

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[foreverfan]

This song resonates with me.

"Wind-Up" Jethro Tull 1971

When I was young and they packed me off to school
and taught me how not to play the game,
I didn't mind if they groomed me for success,
or if they said that I was a fool.

So I left there in the morning
with their God tucked underneath my arm --
their half-assed smiles and the book of rules.
So I asked this God a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said -- I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

So to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares):
before I'm through I'd like to say my prayers --

I don't believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong --
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

Well you can excomunicate me on my way to Sunday school
and have all the bishops harmonize these lines --

How do you dare tell me that I'm my Father's son
when that was just an accident of Birth.
I'd rather look around me -- compose a better song
`cos that's the honest measure of my worth.

In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me,
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear.

I don't believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong --
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FjXrG1FKRho

[Lefty Dave]

Greetings friends and neighbors... in responce to do you believe in God?
author believes in 'FIRST SOURCE'...singular or plural one knows not...magnificent and complete I suppose...but then...why would it create multiple universes ...galaxies ...life...why would it create ME?
authors' Deist knowing stems from witnessing the Awesome creations that abound ...the most perfect architecture of the universe , the solar system, the planet... the children born to me (wife did most of the work!)...these are the proof of the ARCHITECT. author has no use or interest in any other form of GOD,( regardless if re-created by genetic manipulations of other beings...that swear they are god)regardless of the control mechanism many call religion...that have had a major bearing on life as we know it for 3000 years. that said.., As individuated consciousness, we may each believe what we wish. We may each apply our own reasoning to come to our own answer...or just take for granted that what our parents told us about God is the truth, ...but author leaves mind open enough to accept new data upon termination of earthly obligation...L O L !

Blessings