Welcome to The Pub At the End of the Universe.

[Debra]

Hello my Pub,

I see I have some catching up to do.

Just wanted to SHOUT YOU ALL A DRINK while you wait for me to go powder my brain.

*I'll be floating around *

[Curt]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)

Posted by another bob (here)
Sorry, Songs, but what you have described above as "no-mind" is actually one of the pit-fall states warned about in the classic Zen literature. Had you been involved in proper training with a qualified guide at the time, they would have likely been able to help wake you up from one of the delusional conditions often confused with "no-mind" by those who wander into such stagnant states unprepared. I've personally seen a lot of that over the years, especially in newbies at meditation who are trying to storm the gates of heaven by plunging into their fantasy of the path, and so have come to recognize the symptoms when it is described, as you have above. True no-mind is simply non-dwelling mind, which clings to neither polarity, and so is free to act spontaneously, without being burdened by fantasies or bound by pre-conceived notions, and is nothing like the empty blankness you have confused it with.

I sat with this reply and wondered, is there any way that I am going to be able to say what I want to say without it being viewed in some negative way? And I thought, probably not, given what I want to say, no matter how carefully I craft the language. So I went with honesty.

And with that you very politely and nicely suggest, yet again, that there's something delusional about my perspective. Which in itself echoes the issues that I have with those who follow the particular philosophies that you mention: somehow, those of us who don't agree with them, or experience them vastly differently, or aren't interested in them, are somehow defective, or lower vibration, or whatever.

I see what's happen', thar. Um, no thanks. The language itself sticks out a mile, but the subtle-and not so subtle- insinuations are the real kicker. You've done that before, a couple of times now, and I'm bowing politely and withdrawing. I didn't ask for lessons in the no-mind, I certainly wasn't asking for some kind of negative diagnosis, I am not interested in the space of no-mind and I'm not interested in the philosophy that those like me are somehow deficient because we don't agree. I told you awhile ago that I was keeping my distance from you and now I'm restating it, politely and with full sui generis: I am following a different path, one that is not in any way at all inferior to yours. It's different, utterly, and in no way inferior. I'm not interested in gurus, heteronomy of any kind, or homogeny. I don't need agreement. I don't agree with you. I'll pass on the superior tone put downs, thanks, no matter in what flowery terms they're couched or what gurus are quoted to support the position.

I'm more than delighted that you are here sharing this space. I'm not thrilled with the judgements, but that happens. We'll see, in this micro experiment, if it's indeed possible for Beings of vastly different perspectives to co-habit the same 'Verse, or if they really do need separate spaces to play in, which is what my recent musings have been about. Otherwise, it's a continual repeat of the old, old, boring stories of this group is superior to that group, this skin superior to that skin, this religion/philosophy superior, blibble wibble, and hasn't that been done to death? I would have thought that those following a philosophy that supports attachment to nothing would have had little interest in creating hierarchies, but there it is- oddly, also reflected in every religious expression, both eastern, western and inbetween: the hierarchies of heaven and earth- I think the only one I've ever heard about that isn't a hierarchy on this plane are the Quakers, but then their heaven is.

Go figure. Hierarchy, domination and control, on even the most subtle of planes. Now why *is* that, I wonder? What kind of Beings are interested in that, really?

Yep.

Songsy,

Now that deserves a slow clap.....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QhTiJEYqqY8

[Calz]

Posted by Zebra (here)
Hello my Pub,

I see I have some catching up to do.

Just wanted to SHOUT YOU ALL A DRINK while you wait for me to go powder my brain.

*I'll be floating around *

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by another bob (here)
It's actually just the preliminaries, because having directly glimpsed our true nature, we are now faced with the challenge of embodying that insight in the way we behave in the world, and in our relations. Even though we may have had a profound glimpse, we are likely still carrying around a lot of neurotic baggage, which has to be seen through and released, and that's not going to happen on a meditation cushion, but in the marketplace, in the midst of relationship. The value of the meditiative insight is that, if properly supported, it acts like a steering mechanism, allowing us to act authentically, without the superimposition of fantasies and false self-images. In other words, it aids us in being who and what we really are.

Hi Bob, I can almost hear Don Juan describing the art of stalking. I seldom formally meditate any more, although I certainly have nothing against the practice. There seemed to be a certain point where subconsciously anyway, I realized that I could morph the practice into everyday life you also described. It's more like constant contemplation, or constant as can be like Playdo relayed.(LOL)

And yes, once the authentic self is even glimpsed out of the corner of the eye, no other way of being will do. IMHO stalking is the supreme definition for this state of mind. Not in an obsessive way by any means, but more like the subtle corrections we make with the steering wheel while driving. Although sticking with the driving analogy, there are also the occassions where we have allowed ourselves to become totally distracted, and we're at risk of mowing down a pedestrian if we don't get back on the road very quickly.

These moments are very humbling, and I've recently discovered that this is where compassion plays a key role in things. Compassion and forgiveness for ourselves, and our moments of failure...Deep compassion...And the funny thing about that is, the more compassion and forgiveness we can muster for our own inevitable failures, the easier it becomes to practice it with others as well.

Interesting how that works. Coincidence? I think not.

Cheers,
Fred

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
There seemed to be a certain point where subconsciously anyway, I realized that I could morph the practice into everyday life you also described. It's more like constant contemplation, or constant as can be like Playdo relayed.(LOL)

And yes, once the authentic self is even glimpsed out of the corner of the eye, no other way of being will do. IMHO stalking is the supreme definition for this state of mind. Not in an obsessive way by any means, but more like the subtle corrections we make with the steering wheel while driving. Although sticking with the driving analogy, there are also the occassions where we have allowed ourselves to become totally distracted, and we're at risk of mowing down a pedestrian if we don't get back on the road very quickly.

This is really cool, Fred, it reminds me of what I have been exploring with my compass experience, that constant correction back towards the signal. That's how I'm experiencing it, anyway.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[PurpleLama]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1Ksb1z3sPNI

[another bob]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
And with that you very politely and nicely suggest, yet again, that there's something delusional about my perspective. Which in itself echoes the issues that I have with those who follow the particular philosophies that you mention: somehow, those of us who don't agree with them, or experience them vastly differently, or aren't interested in them, are somehow defective, or lower vibration, or whatever.

I'm sorry you have taken it that way, and chosen a defensive posture again. To be succinct, when I see repeated misconceptions about such an important subject being posted here, I feel moved to speak up and clarify the matter. Regardless of notions about "sui generis", we do need to discriminate in the objective world, and your take on "no-mind" is simply incorrect. If someone insisted on driving on the wrong side of the road, and called it "sui generis", I would, out of compassion, feel moved to point out the error. What I have done here is of the same nature, since true "no-mind" is nothing like you described. There are those reading here who may take your word about the matter, and that would be unfortunate.

I would have thought that those following a philosophy that supports attachment to nothing would have had little interest in creating hierarchies, but there it is- oddly, also reflected in every religious expression, both eastern, western and inbetween: the hierarchies of heaven and earth- I think the only one I've ever heard about that isn't a hierarchy on this plane are the Quakers, but then their heaven is.

This is all purely your projection and continued conflation, Songs. No hierachies were mentioned or discussed in my comments -- simply setting the record straight on a misdirection regarding meditative states.

Go figure. Hierarchy, domination and control, on even the most subtle of planes. Now why *is* that, I wonder? What kind of Beings are interested in that, really?

It seems you have quite an assortment of steaming strawmen to drag out, which nevertheless still amount to blowing smoke around the issue, rather than clarifying it. When I first encountered your writing, I found it refreshing, but more and more, what I'm seeing is mostly a wordy adventure in narcissism being passed off as some kind of evolutionary artistic endeavor.
Eyeball to eyeball and heart to heart, I'd say, "Get over yourself!", but I'm afraid that would merely be dismissed as some kind of impingement on your "sui generis signal" at this point, so placing palms together and bowing to all, Bob walks out the Pub door and exits this thread.

[Fred Steeves]

Um, Bob...You left the door open...

Anyway, drinks are on me tomorrow. In the meantime

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=74Kh20Jwi1w

[Curt]

For Songsy....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VppuD1St8Ec

[Fred Steeves]

I can just hear Master Yoda saying, as his eyes narrow: "Beware, strong grow the forces of division". Anybody else been feeling that pull lately?

[Borden]

Unfortunately for Yoda, he'd failed to see his own errors. His errors had essentially forced that division. His blind adherence to the Force rather than the acceptance that the darkness must be integrated and not simply rejected ... played right into the hands of the duality. I reckon by the time the story ended and he'd been alone to dwell on his mistake in that swamp for a while he'd figured that out though. It took Luke, dressed as a Sith, to sort that one out and restore the balance. He didn't do it by navel gazing on Dagobah either.

But I know what you mean, Fred. And Calz ... I meant the other Yoda ... I wasn't having a go at you!

[Mike]

i just read Bob's post (3047) not too long ago, and it's left me a little disturbed, both because he n Songs have fallen out, and also, much to my chagrin, because i agree with a large portion of it.

this has left me in the awkward position of feeling like i'm teaming with an older brother to gang up on my sister, and it's a very unpleasant feeling; i don't like it, but my sui generis is asking me to speak.

Songs, out of everything you've said here on this thread (all 10 trillion words) the thing i identify with most is your *vulnerability*, and *the spirit in which you communicate your message*. though you often leave me confused and scratching my head, i felt an immediate kinship with you and a grand affection because i could sense *the space in which you were coming from*. for me this was always more important than any of the things you were writing about. in you, i see a highly traumatized individual, a kindred spirit who is peeling back the layers of the onion one bit at a time. i can identify with this, greatly admire your courage, and frequently find myself wishing i could give you a hug.

and yet, like Bob, there have been times when i've wanted to grab you by the shoulders and shake you, screaming "Get over yourself woman!!!" you are a textbook overanalyzer, (it takes one to know one) and i sometimes fear you will mind-virus yourself to an early death. and knowing you, you've probably written your own eulogy, a 30 pound tome of a thing that only 3 people on the entire earth will understand

now, i've just went back and read your initial post to Bob, and sort of found myself nodding along, saying 'hmmm, ok, i see where she's coming from there...' and i think what we have here is, using the nomenclature of the thread, a head-butting contest between a sith woman and a jedi knight. as Borden said, the dark is essential, matters just as much as the light, and simply presents a *different* approach to a similar problem.

i just hope you 2 can wrap your light sabres around each other and make nice, cuz the pub just won't be the same without the whole crew participating.

[red_rose]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1Ksb1z3sPNI

omg! I can't believe someone, all the way over in america, has heard of Mclusky!!!

I saw them at a small gig in a pub in Brighton, where i lived at the time. It was stomping! It kicked off massively. I ended up with my arms and legs wrapped around a massive speaker whilst the whole crowd, which was no more than 100 people, writhed and moshed. It was awesome. I overheard the guitarist afterwards, at the bar, say is was the best gig he'd played. The crowd was hungry for Mclusky. It was hilarious. I was standing there, front row, pint in hand, the first riff kicked in, the crowd surged, i was literally levitating with no more pint in my hand. I almost head-butted the guitarist's guitar but swerved and ended up against the speaker!

They've broken up now. They were more successful on the underground scene but couldn't afford to keep going. I think they are now called 'future of the left'.

Awesome tune, you made me day!!

red_rose

Did they play in america? Did you see them?

[Kali Lemorte]

Hello everyone is this an OK place for a newbie to say hi and introduce myself? If not can someone please direct me to the appropriate link? There r so many postings and I tried to search for an introduction post but couldn't find one. Anyway hi everyone I just filled out my profile just in case I look forward to getting to know everyone.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
i just read Bob's post (3047) not too long ago, and it's left me a little disturbed, both because he n Songs have fallen out, and also, much to my chagrin, because i agree with a large portion of it.

this has left me in the awkward position of feeling like i'm teaming with an older brother to gang up on my sister, and it's a very unpleasant feeling; i don't like it, but my sui generis is asking me to speak.

Songs, out of everything you've said here on this thread (all 10 trillion words) the thing i identify with most is your *vulnerability*, and *the spirit in which you communicate your message*. though you often leave me confused and scratching my head, i felt an immediate kinship with you and a grand affection because i could sense *the space in which you were coming from*. for me this was always more important than any of the things you were writing about. in you, i see a highly traumatized individual, a kindred spirit who is peeling back the layers of the onion one bit at a time. i can identify with this, greatly admire your courage, and frequently find myself wishing i could give you a hug.

and yet, like Bob, there have been times when i've wanted to grab you by the shoulders and shake you, screaming "Get over yourself woman!!!" you are a textbook overanalyzer, (it takes one to know one) and i sometimes fear you will mind-virus yourself to an early death. and knowing you, you've probably written your own eulogy, a 30 pound tome of a thing that only 3 people on the entire earth will understand

now, i've just went back and read your initial post to Bob, and sort of found myself nodding along, saying 'hmmm, ok, i see where she's coming from there...' and i think what we have here is, using the nomenclature of the thread, a head-butting contest between a sith woman and a jedi knight. as Borden said, the dark is essential, matters just as much as the light, and simply presents a *different* approach to a similar problem.

i just hope you 2 can wrap your light sabres around each other and make nice, cuz the pub just won't be the same without the whole crew participating.

In my response to bob I specifically said I was glad that he was here and I meant it. You were gone for awhile and missed the colossal fallout that Borden and I had, both on the board and privately; a few here knew about the grief and pain I was going through, that he was going through about other things and for awhile it got very messy and incredibly painful.

Just before that time Borden wrote this post https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post479635 , the end line of which he says

It doesn't matter what we are, or what we think we are. Or what we angrily think we are not because some chick with horns has come along and said things we don't like. This is Pub Club. Bruises and missing teeth are not a problem. Failure to engage is the only real hurt.

and because of the fundamental elements of our sui generis, we refused to shut the door on each other, although he did slam it vigorously a few times and flung it back open again, to finally rip it off its hinges and then place it carefully and neatly on the wall beside the doorway. I'm actually not a Sith; even though I can look like one at times, it's actually not Sith at all because I'm going for something much, much more co-creative than that- and power in the Creator, not external sense. I am always primarily interested in the co-creation and exploring the sui generis, which makes me too bridge for Sith. We're two beings that love lightsabers but when push comes to shove would never actually use them on one of our own unless utterly necessary- we just battle back and forth and make really cool sound effects noises: well, he makes the noises, I don't- he's so much better at it that I wouldn't bother to embarrass my Self by attempting it. The point of this is, we discovered in each other a Being that was prepared to stand in our sui generis with each other, no matter how opposed that looked, and find the source of the connection signal between us. I have that with a few on this thread- it's a rare signal indeed AND it's what I'm interested in. Borden and I know each other in far more powerful and expansive ways now and we know that in each other, we've discovered a Being that can truly evolve as the connection does its thing. To me, this is the precious thing, not agreement.

I said in my response to bob that I was truly interested to see if Beings with such diametrically opposed views as he and I have could actually get the sui generis happening to the degree that co-habitation was possible. I am truly interested, because of my micro to macro view of things and seeing those patterns played out continuously up and down the frequency. I really do want to see what is possible. So what's possible in this instance is he that he writes something and leaves. Then, in a different aspect of the hologram, Borden doesn't, despite his sometimes epic rages and spontaneous combustions; he seethes, fumes and evolves. I writhe while burning to a crisp and rise again in the next evolution. I'm learning through this to get to the evolution bit without the crispy toasted bit.

To me, there's a difference between saying 'ah, we see things in a profoundly different manner, this is an interesting opportunity' and 'you don't see things my way, this means you are delusional in some way'. I am interested in what is going to truly work to transform the monumental levels of crap and here's how I see it: I'm just some chick with a bunch of perspectives and a connection to a bunch of different realities. I haven't studied for years with gurus. I'm not an expert meditator, I'm not well versed in the philosophical 'wisdoms' of multitudes of individuals, yet me in all my weirdness and loquacity can sit with the differences and weather the process of living into the deep level sui generis that I observe being the only answer to the clusterf*uck that is running the planet. I don't leave the process, even when it feels like I'm committing seppeku, because the process is more important than my resistance. I'm just some chick, so what is it exactly that I'm doing that can p!ss someone so long zen trained off that they leave?

in you, i see a highly traumatized individual

heh, you wouldn't have wanted to meet me in my early 20s then. The idea that anyone would find me traumatised is really strange; to me, there's always going to be evolution, so I wonder do all Beings look traumatised to those that are functioning on different levels? I wouldn't know how to triangulate that, given the level of OMFG! MY EYE! that I experience out in the world. Can you show me what a non-traumatised individual looks like here? That's how I map things, I find different signals and absorb the frequency, going back and forth to 'see' what it is they're doing, and I'd be really interested in meeting someone who has that clear a signal. I'm in connection with others who to me have very non-dissonant signals *and* I know that others experience them as hugely dissonant, so heh, horses for courses.

nd yet, like Bob, there have been times when i've wanted to grab you by the shoulders and shake you, screaming "Get over yourself woman!!!"

then do it, ffs, and SHOW me what you think I'm not seeing! And then, when I am working through it, don't assume it's because I'm defective in some way, or because I'm being adversarial, or because I need to be right about everything or any of the other easy judgements- it's none of those things (although it might be momentarily, and I get my Self out of that pretty quickly because none of them are what I'm truly interested in), it's that I genuinely don't see what you're saying and if I can't SEE the pattern and signal, I'm not going to automatically agree. I'll map it. I don't need agreement! It's the *process* that matters, because in all the billions of different universes that are stumbling around the planet atm, there's precious all agreement and plenty of uproar at the lack of said agreement when what really seems to be the fundamental problem is the erroneous idea that agreement is the thing that's missing. NO, no it's not!! The ability to hold the idea of infinite possibility in one's internal space and not freak out about that is what's missing! Being ok with the infinitely different expression of the choices of others is what's missing! And until we embrace with joy the notion that in a constantly evolving multiverse of infinite possibility there's ALWAYS going to be someone whose view is nothing like ours and hurrah, that's *awesome* and let's celebrate it!! rather than rush in with a diagnosis of some deficiency on their part based on my world view. Which always seems to go down *so* well, as the constant wars here demonstrate.

I'm interested in what works. Sliding virus laden programs around disguised as 'wisdom' doesn't work, no matter who is doing it. I'm just some chick that will say 'hey, the emperor is wearing no clothes', and wondering if others can tell the difference between a clothed and nude emperor. And who will then point out that there is, in fact, no emperor because we're all equal Beings and if he wants to insist that he's emperor, he's utterly free to find Beings that will agree with that, and I'll be over here doing something else.

I know you think I write a lot. This is me constantly slicing off huge chunks of my thought streams. I haven't actually written my own eulogy because why do that when I'm still spooling up? This things I write are nothing compared to what happens when I'm thought streaming: I'm curious as to what will happen when I really let things rip. :D

[Borden]

The tone of this post is not how I usually feel inclined to talk to people, but I wanted to try on this hat for a couple of reasons. If you make it through to the end (I know it's long), hopefully you'll understand why you're not obliged to feel offended. You still can be though if you like. I don't know how your ego works.

To suggest that you have to distill your consciousness into some entity that relinquishes the extraordinary equipment you already have is as primitive as the idea of the Fall. It's a passive-aggressive response to a complex existence and a complex mind that experience this existence. It's an act of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. It is the emotional answer of a child utterly in the grip of ... wait for it ... the corrupted ego.

You can let the universe happen to you and be a passenger who sophisticates the art of powerlessness ... and you will indeed enjoy the sights of the trip in a new and profound way. This is because you are learning acceptance by stepping back from pointless inner battles. Therefore the senses (both physical and otherwise) are more free to do their thing. Congratulations. But now you are conflating acceptance with passivity. Oops.

When you have done this to its ultimate extent what will you see? Well, I'll tell you. You won't see anything. You will have gone down the cul de sac of yourself while imagining you've done the opposite. Were you expecting to see God? Well, I'm not saying you won't along the way, in a way, even in reflections that you won't associate with what's possible for those who don't go deep as you are doing ... I'm well aware of this. However, if you were able to go deep enough, and if God were actually like that, you would eventually see God shouting at you, "What the f*ck are you doing, you idiot?! Get back out there! I didn't create this universe out of myself just for you to come crawling back to square one! I am not in charge ... you are ... that was the whole bloody point of CREATION!"

No, no ... not Creation as in the religious sense. Creation in which YOU are a creator. Ongoing creation. If you think that existence, the universe - is some established ride, some dance of death with rules and contracts in its experience that you cannot rewrite, then you are betraying the very consciousness of which you are an eternal part and you may as well have not bothered incarnating in the first place. Maybe you should just melt back into the source of all after all, but that's your business, not mine.

Actually, there's more to it than that, which I may as well mention now that I've started. You can be someone who achieves stillness, and who offers the universe their appreciative passivity ... and the universe will still happily eat your experience while you watch it do so with 'enlightened' vision. No story is wasted on the universe. If you don't want to embrace what you came here for ... then the universe is perfectly happy to digest you as information, as process material. What the universe wants is for us to create. But hens lay a lot of eggs. Most don't hatch. It's all good.

The mind-virus is NOT the ego. The ego is a vehicle it uses, a doorway - but there are other doorways. The mind-virus would have you believe that the very equipment it infiltrates and uses against you is inherently corrupt, but it is not. That is a trick.

Make no mistake - I am not saying that the ego is not heavily corrupted by the virus. Quite the opposite. But the ego is a vital part of the array with which we find ourselves blessed as physical, thinking, feeling beings. If your body has a disease is the solution to leave your body?

There is a vast, vast difference between recognizing that consciousness and our consensus reality have problems ... and how you choose to respond to that recognition. You have NOT come on holiday by mistake.

I don't care what the most revered practitioners of disappearing into infinity say, and no amount of quotes by them intimidate me. In fact the more sophisticated and profound their adherence to the law of cosmic passivity, and the more famous they are for it, the more mobbed by acolytes who can do nothing but follow - the more ridiculous they are to me.

I would say exactly the same things to any of them fearlessly. I would also listen to what they said back. If you think that this is because I have some out of control ego and am arrogant and hubristic then you underestimate my intelligence. I know when I'm being arrogant and hubristic, and this is not that. That side of me is something I'm not foolish enough to try to kill or silence, because I know it has things to explore. But this is not that. This is my passion, my truth, and it has been examined closely from every conceivable angle over many years, and this process continues.

I'm not prepared to explain it here, but I have had the rare privilege of knowing the virus in a highly unusual and terrifying way for nearly eighteen years. Had I not evolved in my understanding pretty damned rapidly from one bout to the next I would not be alive today. I'm not exaggerating here. If I explained it to you, you would fully understand, and like everyone else who I've told, you'd probably do that aghast, mystified expression that I've seen on a number of occasions now. The one that silently says, "why are you still alive? How did you not commit suicide?" But that's my business. I just want you to know that when I talk about the mind-virus, the ego, the self, and the whole business of creation I didn't just pull it out of my arse this afternoon.

And do not make the mistake of thinking that I was forced into some blind adherence to a line of thinking by my trauma, as is so often the case with religious types for instance. It's quite the opposite actually. I never found a convenient cubby hole and that's half the point. It's a complicated and harrowing story, and not one I'm going to tell here, but I've had to spend extended periods - weeks, months - prepared moment by waking moment not just for death, but for something far worse to happen at any instant.

There was NOWHERE to go other than utter acceptance, and the abandonment of my ego. In fact I had no choice in the matter. So I went down that road, and it was a life or death crash course. Going down that road was an insight, not a destination. It was a part of my evolution. When I hear people wax smug about meditation and perceiving the stillness of their essential selves beyond the mind I often feel like the veteran of a bloody war watching children play with toy guns. No, I am not belittling anyone else's pain, not at all. Neither am I belittling anyone who has posted in this thread. I'll get to that in a minute. What I'm saying is that the direct conflict I got into with the virus was brilliantly inescapable, and I'll repeat - if I explained it to you, you would fully understand.

I also want to let anyone know who cares ... if someone posts here who seems to be a self-appointed authority, you are under no obligation to take them at their word on that authority. This includes me and this post. My ego has had some input into this post, as has yours in reading it. Whoever you are. I've written in this style to make a point.

I am very tired of being talked down to by people who mistake my respectful openness to their experience as a lack of insight into my own. If I were insecure about my intelligence, my philosophies or my evolving observations I wouldn't have posted half the stuff I have, I'd never be silly, and I would probably be guarded and engaged in a game of concealing my weaknesses. I'd probably adopt the tone of a teacher in my posts, God help me.

One last thing. Followers of this thread will probably assume that I am attacking a couple of specific posters. This is absolutely not the case. Recent events here triggered something in me, sure, but the people you're thinking of don't deserve an assault like this, of course. Besides, there are people in my life outside the forum who've recently helped inspire this too. No, this is my assault on a species of thinking, not an attack on people. And I credit the people you might assume I'm attacking with more complexity and depth than the broad strokes of this post might suggest. I just want to make that clear.

[Mike]

do you *really* think it's so strange that one would view you as traumitized, Songs, given what you've written here in these last few months? you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but come on. anyhoo, it wasn't intended as an insult in any way, shape or form -- just an observation. hell, *i'm* traumitized! if you don't like that description, can we at least agree that you've endured a set of unfortunate circumstances that have left you emotionally wounded? anyway, who cares? that's not really important.

i should point out that i don't think you are *defective* in any way shape or form. also, i've almost *never* seen you adversarial; quite the contrary, you are almost always kind and patient and lovely. nor do you always need to be right; you are very open to other's opinions. where are you getting these ideas anyway, you goof? i've never come close to implying this -- will we have to be changing your name to Strawmanofanother kind?

as far as the 'mind virus' goes, i think you've dropped some real gems regarding it, but i also think that finally it can be a bit much. in my mind, the constant harping on the virus may be worse that the virus itself! ever had a bad acid trip? second guessing yourself constantly? paranoid? if you keep this up pretty soon it'll be like that -- one day you'll wake up and you won't be clear if you really have to take a dump or if it's just the 'virus' playing parlor tricks on your colon. know what i mean, Songsy?

hey, have we just had our first argument? is the honeymoon over? it doesn't matter, i still think you're tops. wanna be friends again?

thing is, if i can't be honest in this thread it's over for 'ol Chinaski. i'll have to quit the forum, do the "i'm leaving" thread and all that,..."sorry Avalonians, it's been great knowing you all, and it's with great regret that i announce my departure..."

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Borden (here)
[I]The tone of this post is not how I usually feel inclined to talk to people, but I wanted to try on this hat for a couple of reasons. If you make it through to the end (I know it's long)-

I did make it, and it's awesome, and I want so much to respond, and I have madness going on here in terms of house inspections, and trying to keep a million things together. I'll write in the peace time.

*hugs*

[Calz]

Posted by Borden (here)

But I know what you mean, Fred. And Calz ... I meant the other Yoda ... I wasn't having a go at you!

*Other* Yoda???

Imposter there is???

Hungry I am ... deal with him after dinner I will ...

[another bob]

Apparently, there needs to be some clarification. I am not leaving the Avalon Forum, merely dropping out of this thread. It is certainly not out of anger. Why get pissed off over an internet thread? No, I am withdrawing from this particular thread because life is precious, and I am determined not to waste a minute of it.

Simply put, it's only the virus itself that will go on endlessly about the virus, because it is endlessly fascinated with itself and all its dreamy permutations. Moreover, it will make every effort to misdirect attention by any means at its disposal, even to the point of making up stories and attributing positions that have no basis in actual reality. The virus loves to create strawman arguements with which to joust, but I'm not buying. As Mr. Scott once noted: " Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Well, it's all fine, but I am simply not interested in reading long tracts of self-enamored personal fantasies masqeurading as virus-hacking, nor do I wish to put another ounce of energy into that whole scene. There are other venues at Avalon where I will continue participating, such as the Here and Now Village thread, where many of you visit too. Best wishes to all!


In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added.
In the practice of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

~Tao Te Ching