Incarceration as a form of vengeance

[Ernie Nemeth]

Being employed by a company whose primary means of funding comes from building prisons I have been forced to contemplate our penal system.

Here in the Toronto area they are quietly building several "super jails". It is big business, involving thousands of vested interests. No one outside the industry even know they are being built. One is in the heart of the city...

My take on the whole matter is simple: no one should ever be imprisoned. Instead, there should only be two courses of action, two choices - a quick and merciful death or real, true, fair rehabilitation.

Furthermore, financial punishment should never be used for curtailing a citizen's actions since this world is already financially challenging enough. Fines are a means of addressing what amounts to a "grey area" or "an opinion" about certain aspects of lawful behavoir.

If a person "transgresses" the only question should be, "Do we kill him humanely or do we offer a real solution to the problem.

Never should a person be subjected to rape, torture or incarceration. This solution is only a method of fear-mongering and the promulgation of further atrocities. It is a means for feeding the sick propensities of those who should already have been "culled" from society, not segregated and allowed to fester and further swell the ranks of the "perverted".

That's my stance, purely "black and white" and offering a choice of either "fix what's broke" or "live and let live" - not "whitewash" the problem with fines, sanctions and jail time...

I'm interested to see what others may think.
Any opinions?

[Carmody]

thanks Ernie.

This is a stealth attempt by the Harper government and that which is behind him. namely, the CFR, the oil groups, the Rabid side of the republicans and overall... the fascists lurking in the background.

They are trying to introduce mandatory sentences for minor issues, with regard to Canadian Federal laws. The breaking of a functional social fabric, created by the illusion within short sighted people having been used to 'vote' such people as Harper and his cohorts, into the federal offices.

It should be known that Harper is almost literally incapable of chewing bubble gum and walking -at the same time. so literal and linear minded, that he can't speak one word of a speech, without having his eyes on the script, at the exact same time. it is easy to see, then, that this man is inherently mentally flawed and very very dangerous. It is obvious that his psychological reach is nearly NIL.

To presage or pre-set the roll (set the stage) into overt fascism... they destroy the economy through bank and monetary manipulations (when Canada has it's OWN national bank that USED TO issue it's own script and Canada was debt free). This is done through manipulations of Canada's finances at the federal level that people don't see. They don't see it therefore they don't understand that the manipulations are taking place.

(largely...this is happening the world over, regarding the economic and western world)

Then the militarization and police paranoia is introduced into the mayhem of escalating personal and overall socioeconomic "fabricated crisis".

They are removing federal funding and the ability for the prison systems to function without massive interventions due to 'fake created' crisis with regard to federal ability to finance the prison systems.

They then will propose to privatize all prisons, along with introducing the mandatory drug laws and mandatory fines, mandatory imprisonments, etc.

The prisons will be privatized, but it will prove to be TWICE as expensive to the public coffers, with massive overcrowding and incredibly high prison populations.

Then, the labor of the inmates in the prisons.... will be sold of to military and connected corporations, by the privatized prison system. This will be sold off for pennies of cost to the corporations, per hour of labour.

The prison systems as private corporations will receive huge funding from the government, or people, the laws will be fascist and paranoid in order to fill the prisons, and religion and patriotism will be used against those who protest this insanity - Along with incarceration.

There will be no oversight as they will be privatized corporations.

The VERY DEFINITION OF FASCISM: the collusion, of corporations and governments -against the will of the public. Hidden or otherwise ---it is what it is.

(by this correct and true definition of fascism, the USA has had a fascist government for at least 100 years)

Thus the militarization will occur and at no cost to the corporations riding on that free labour and the prison owners will be making profit from both ends.

All this, while the people are in jail, paying for the mess. while the people in the streets will be forced into a paranoid fascist world of war and religion.

This is the recipe that was used in the USA since about 1970, and has been used in this world in various forms, for the past few thousand years. (started as a combined effort with the Rockefeller drug laws and the wholesale privatization of the prison systems, in NY state, around 1970 or so)

This was their response to people seeking freedom in the 1960's.............and they are going to try it again.

See it for what it is.

Harper has brought the same crap, this diseased fascism cloaked in patriotic flags, paranoia, and religion...... to Canada.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You see, the federal reserve banks created the Union banking corporation (run by Prescott Bush) which financed the Nazis. The nazi's created these big prison complexes and labour sources.

By the time the war was in full swing, the systems of incarceration had 85% of the soft goods of the military manufactured, for free..in prison based labour camps.

In 1942, they were busted (the union banking corporation) and were told to stop financing the nazis.There is evidence to show that they did not stop. this is all on US congressional record.

The Dulles brothers, who were instrumental in the creation of the CIA and were skull & bones members, they brought back about 5000-7000 nazi scientists and experts, so the private federal banks could re-coup their investment in nazi Germany, while the fascist nazis hid the best stuff for themselves, in different places, around the world. Half was also sold off to the Russians (Stalin).

This became the USA's big military/corporate black ops, where the science advanced at a rate of 50 years for every 'public year' that the rest of us were and are aware of. This is the source of Eisenhower's parting warning, to 'beware the military industrial complex'.

Things worked swimmingly beautiful, people were patriotic and the world was good, as the USA basically was at the top of the financial food chain (1950's), with the ugly stuff that has been floating around for the past many thousands of years..was running things, while hiding in the backdrop.

Then, Korea, Japan as a labour camp, and so on. Banana republics were still going on strong as forced labour camps in central America, all the US news was washed, the whole ball of wax.

America was happy, fat, and ignorant.

Then, Vietnam.

The public becomes aware and the government starts looking into -it being backed by private interests and that thousands of year old thing---that system starts to move into... turning on the USA.... as the USA is no longer a willing and ignorant host... to having a parasite that rides on it.

People were waking up.

Thus the whole drug law thing, the privatization, etc..and America has the same crew in charge, in the backdrop..and the incarcerated people are living in a semi-hidden fascist system..with the same as the Fascists in Germany.

We get to the mid-late 1970's.. and we have Forced labor in prisons, manufacturing 85% of the US military's soft goods--same as the nazi's. The same people --created the same system. All those 'prisoners'...doing it for free, for corporations, who were subjugating the world via owning the federal offices (due to no standing army in the USA borders as federal law, so they went the federal route of control). (some 790 military bases in the rest of the world, outside of the USA)

Now they are trying to tear down the USA on the INSIDE so it will have NO LIVING MEMORY of what was done to it, by this multi-thousand year old hidden system.

That the USA was used as weapon to tear apart the rest of the world and now that it is too destroyed to stand on it's own, then kill the unwilling and unwitting killer/assassin (the USA)...from the INSIDE. (The USA was a fresh, open, NEW country with VAST untouched resources, that's why it could be -and was- done)

That is what is going on.

Now, Harper is brought into federal office by the same groups and hidden hands, and is starting up the same nightmare, in Canada.

It is a short synopsis, but that is the essence of it.

So, when you look at Harper, and what is behind him..... all of the above... THAT..is what you are staring at.

Canada has vast untapped resources, you know.

Now that the USA is 'tapped' and dry, in some ways, it will now be torn and shattered.. to kill any possibility of memory in the people... and the Canadian lands/resources will be confiscated, and the Canadian public will be indoctrinated/'mindwiped' via socioeconomic means into a paranoid fascist state and then used as a resource system for a fascist reboot of the North American continent.

Just in case any of you folks wanted to know, that is what is going on. That is the attempt, that is the hidden directive.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Well said Carmody. It is, like usual, hard to pick out a single point to comment on in your comprehensive replies and posts.

The Americans have been at war since WWII without surcease so there can be no argument about their intentions, that's for sure. But Canada has stood up to them for the longest while and even gone against them - like the Iraqi invasion, for instance. But this Harper government is like no other in Canada's history and it has brought out the most hard-lined neocons that up until this time have been moderated by more lenient right-of-center true Conservatives. Like Preston Manning, these neocons Nazis are thinly disguised bullies that want things their way and everyone else be damned! Like their 3 pot plants and the mandatory 6-month jail term ploy. Live and let live is a thing of the past in Canada, I'm afraid.

The upside is that for the first time in Canada's history, the Left-leaning NDP has an actual grassroots resurgence in public support that may well be the demise of the Liberals and perhaps the Neo-cons as well. If Bob Rae had gone ahead and renigged on his promise to not run for permanent leader of the Liberal party that would have been a slam dunk - now we'll have to wait and see...

Thanks for your reply.

[crosby]

Carmody, that is one of the most essential posts that I have read in quite a while. Thank you so much. That is it in a nutshell.
warmest regards, corson

[Mulder]

I totally agree & I don't want to repeat your information.

All I want to add is how much the sheeple LOVE hurting themselves - why do they vote for politicians who want to "get tough on crime?" When every year more and more sheeple are turned into criminals by their Govt, so their family will be sitting in jail for a long time with all these laws.

Why do the sheeple support cutting Driver Licences, or putting people who don't pay child support in jail, when it's impossible to ever pay it sitting in jail.

Now 11 years after 9.11 all these laws aimed at "terrorists" are applied to everyone, e.g. TSA grope downs, making people "prove" they got money legally (hard to do as money is not tracked like it is in a cashless society), etc. I think the sheeple are so blind, they'll only wake up at the gas-chamber - where the Nazi train always ends up.

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Ernie, think there are at least two other ways beside killing or rehabilitating the offender. First is banishment to the lawless place where the outlaw can do as she/he please ( to the "prison planet"?!). Second is abandonment by and relocation of the rest of society to the other planet (or dimension?!) Leaving the offender behind...
Well killing is a form of banishment to the other dimension... Technically speaking of course...

[spiritguide]

The thread title should read ' Incarceration as the best public/private business '. This subject is real and an anchor to the future of our fate. The department of corrections at state and federal levels are just as corrupt as all others, and we know it. Some are fighting it through the system like the ACLU. Check out their website for more info.

http://www.aclu-il.org/

This link is the IL chapter and has link to the federal site and other state's sites.
As this thread indicates it looks like Canada is following suit. Actually it is an overt form of slavery as the corporations want it.

This discussion has been waiting to happen for a long time and it's needed. A thread on this was posted a few days ago, here is the link...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...960#post503960

[Ernie Nemeth]

Robert, your suggestion sounds very much like what Britain did centuries ago with its crimminals - send them to Australia! That seems to have worked itself out quite nicely...

It is a case in point, and not far off what I am advocating - either kill them or rehabilitate them for real. What I was trying to suggest is that this is not a question of crimminals, it is a question of our intent. Do we truly want to make things better or do we want to sweep the entire issue under the rug? If the options are "black and white" as I recommend then we are given a choice that reflects our true intentions. If we kill them, what we are really saying is that our system is screwed up and we don't care to fix it. If we try to rehabilitate the criminal we would actually have to address the issues that made them criminals in the first place. And that is the point.

Our system is, and has always been, unfair and inequitable. But, by having a penal system in place we can ignore the problems and go on with "business as usual". At least with a choice of death or rehab we would confront our own demons and deal with issues that for far too long have been ignored.

In america, fully 80% of inmates are from the lower third of the economic spectrum, 70% are non-whites, and 65% (or there-abouts) are drug-related. Only some 30% are there for violent crimes and very few for murder or sex-offenses. Canada is not much better. Here, crime has been dropping for well over a decade - yet the sudden need for "super jails" as espoused by the neo-cons? Makes anyone with a mind that still functions to stop and wonder why.

Most of the time, offenders are those that have come from troubled homes, with parents either physically or psychologically absent. This means that what they lacked was love (primarily), respect, fairness, compassion, mentorship and a firm and understanding role-model. Exactly what is missing in society in general...

Also, where would you suggest we place these unwanted and disruptive elements of society? The question is rhetorical, since there is no place left on earth. Oh, and by the way, if there was such a place a lot of people besides the offenders would opt to join them - I would. At least there you'd know where you stand and you could live a short but authentic life, not the pablum-fed, robot-like, automaton congruity forced upon us in this modern world.

This world is heading towards the gas-chamber of Nazi fame, just like Mulder says, and I'm not paying for the ride. Give me real solutions (freedom) or give me death! (forget who said that, not good with quotes) is an apt way of putting it.

I'm not into vengeance as a deterrent...

[Carmody]

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Liberty

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

[Hervé]

Corroboration of sorts to Carmody's post # 2 above through the "Orion Model" as explained by Alex Collier:

Orion model

One of Alex Collier's interviews by Robert Stanley who yanked those interviews off his website...


Alex Collier interview, 2011-10-27
http://kiwi6.com/file/f8s5019nne


Welcome to a new episode of Unicus Radio, I am your host Robert Stanley we have a special guest, our friend Alex Collier.

“ …our ancient ancestors, the Sumerians, the Egyptians they all had full knowledge of our cousins. They often saw them in the air, they had some forms of interaction between them and humanity on a relatively frequent basis. The Mayans, the Aztecs also have the same stories of being with the gods and you know, agriculture, horticulture, manufacturing were all taught to our ancestors. It’s after, really, the sinking of Atlantis and then the last pole shift that occurred which was caused by the Anunaki where everything kind of went black, and then what we have basically, we have all these legends on this as we are taught but are in fact based on actual history. Now, as far as the freeing of the galaxy…

“I am gona tell you what I have been told.

“’For the most part, most of the galaxy is pretty civilized, ok. It’ really matured, it’s coming to its own. But there are some areas, mostly on the outskirts, where it’s still pretty [much] considered “jungle.” But that’s changing rapidly as well. Now, if you remember when I first started speaking, the Andromedans, Moreney and Faceyas, had said that tyranny showed up in our galaxy in the future and they had come back in time to find out what was going on and they had narrowed it down – not just the As but several groups or teams that were part of the Adromedan council -- had come back and had focused it to this particular area of our solar system.

“Now, we have some really bad elements here. They are not just here but in this kind of sector, this part of our galaxy. Some are in our solar system, obviously, and some are directly underneath us. But some are also inhabiting some of the other planets and moons in our solar system.

05:00
“Basically this was like a free zone. This was an area where nobody paid attention to. And it's because of that that this rogue element was drawn here because they felt like they could do whatever the hell they wanted to do. In essence you could say this was like a lure to them. This area that nobody gives a sh*t about, that’s where we go, that’s where we hide. Like pirates would do.

“So, they come here en masse, in numbers, not only physically but dimensionally. The dimensional part, doors were opened for them so they could actually come in and now basically what you have now is that you have this cesspool of just renegades who for the most part have all their own agendas. They may have different agendas, but none of those agendas are really about the betterment and welfare of the natives. It’s all about what can we get for ourselves. And humanity has mirrored this as well, you know, in our history.

“So, now, what we have is that the doors are closing. Behind this group, I know there are some basically saying it’s over, and that is absolutely so far from the truth. And I’ll give you an analogy of why that's so far from the truth. Now, it is clear that they are backing up and they are beginning to know that they are cornered. But it isn’t over because we are between them and the good guys. For the most part humanity is completely unaware of what’s really going on around themselves. Humanity is in a very precarious position.

“But I’ll just give you this analogy. You even hear it with some of these speakers saying, you know, a brand new financial system is coming in, and it’s gona be miraculous, it’s gona be absolutely wonderful; it’s gona replace the old system. Well, the old system was based on a fiat currency from, they only last about 80 years. So it’s coming to an end. It has reached its pinnacle of putting everybody in debt. So we have now a new financial system coming in. This is an Earth financial system. However it is being managed by other personages who are not solely human.

“At this point, there were only four countries that were not part of the Rothschild’s banking system. They were North Korea, Cuba, Libya and Iran. Well we know Libya is no longer a part of that. They're no longer free, they are now part of the Rothschild’s banking system. The next would be Iran and we are already hearing the ramblings about going to war with Iran and making them the bad guy. As far as North Korea and Cuba, I don’t think anybody gives a sh*t about those two countries.

“So, this should show everyone that what they’re hearing that it’s all over, it’s time to relax, you know, pick up your heels, open a six-pack, you know, it’s way premature, way premature.


25:30
“Most people in government don’t really understand the real element of control here and that it’s extraterrestrial. They are aware of the human element. Those that have awareness of it, made a choice to succumb to this evil. I am sure that they were probably threatened and that their families were threatened, etc. Because we have inherited this problem. Those alive today inherited this problem. But this is the Orion Model.

“This is what the Orions, both the human aspect of what’s the Anunaki are a part of and the Reptilian lineages used to do, hundreds and hundreds of millions of years ago when the colonization of galaxies was in its beginning and its infancy. I don’t even know how many years ago that was.

“But this is the Orion Model: they would come in with different gods, they would separate the humanity of that planet. They would change their language. They would teach them a faith or a religion to separate them even more. Then they would use them to fight one another to build animosity and distrust.

“That alone changes the entire harmonic of not only the race but the planet. They think holographically, they know this stuff. They know what it does, ok, because they have all this knowledge.

“So, when you have planetary race and a planet vibrating at a low frequency, it is like a nesting zone for these guys. And when that’s done, what they then do is they corrupt, they create a priesthood to be the intermediaries between humanity and them because the more hidden they are, especially if they are regressive, the more stealth they are, the easier it is for them to manipulate.

“So, they use their human priesthoods, or their priesthoods – I am assuming all the races are human; they are not -- to basically implement the strategy and the plan.

“Once they have absolute control of a planet and the humanity on it and all the resources, just before they expose themselves, come forward and introduce themselves as gods, what they do is they eliminate all the people that helped them. All, the priesthoods, all the intermediaries, all the middle management, they eliminate all of them so there is no one left to tell the story. And they erase history. Then the humanity on that particular planet is floundering around wondering “Who the hell are we?” “what’s true, what isn’t true? “How do you explain this?” “That religion says that.” It creates all this confusion and no one is on the same page and that’s exactly how they managed to control these planets.

““Ordo ab chao”

“You cannot enslave a planet that is well educated and you have a humanity that knows who it is on high spiritual principles. You cannot enslave a race like that.”

[ghostrider]

I agree with Ernie, no one should be locked up, either quick death, or rehab . An eye for an eye .

[Mark]

My perspective on this is as an American currently living in Canada, just outside of Montreal. I'm watching these student protests going on right down the highway and wondering how the same events would have been handled in the States. First of all, students in the states have long since been cowed by the government for the most part, probably going all the way back to Kent State and the murder of some students by soldiers in the 70s. They accept the ever-increasing costs with little complaints, willingly going into a life of debt-slavery and probable peonage.

Before I can jump on board with any draconian answers to the prison problem it's going to have to be a bit less race-based. A little known fact about the federal prison system is that it was first put into place in the United States after the Civil War and implemented in the South. It was used in order to round up black men that couldn't find jobs and put them back to work for free in a new form of slavery. It was used in tandem with the Black Codes, which morphed into Jim Crow, which had lesser and greater forms of implementation in all sectors of the United States, be it North, South, East or West. The West was best but still had its issues.

The Federal Prison system in the States was created to house blacks and put them back to work for businesses, corporations, for free. As an aside that I don't think is at all coincidental, the 14th amendment, which was designed to give black folks a form of citizenship (yes, I know all the sovereignty arguments about the united states corporations, citizenship, person-hood and the 14th amendment) was co-opted by business interests just a few short years following emancipation and the corporations were given person-hood. Over the next years and decades, more cases involving the 14th amendment were brought before the courts involving the rights of corporations than the rights of blacks and other minorities denied equal treatment under the law.

Being involved in a system, being forced from birth into peonage and hopelessness creates an inter generational memory regarding possibility and potentiality that is difficult to transcend. Humans are able to do so because we are infinite beings, souls wearing bodies for a time, but patterns related to the status of the biology remain ingrained as mental patterns are ingrained in synapses and neural nets during the course of a lifetime. Drug crimes - often the only jobs left in the cities since 'white flight' and the emptying of the cities of capital and opportunities in the 1950s, 60s and 70s - crimes of passion and petty crimes are generally symptoms of environmental desperation, where there are few alternatives and opportunities. Both mentalities and perspectives, that of victimization and that of entitlement, are two sides of the same coin, they feed off of each other and often lead to draconian responses on both sides.

More benefits for those who don't have anything. Less benefits for those who don't do anything. Given the subjectivity of perspective and the all-encompassing nature of our personal viewpoints on the nature of reality, unless purposefully cultivated, it is very difficult to truly see another's position unless one has somehow been in that position themselves and can relate.

In other words, I'm all for rehabilitation. Thanks for this thoughtful topic.

[mosquito]

I agree Ernie, though I also think a form of public humiliation could be useful.

As I'm sure you know, it's a hugely complex issue and we have to take into account the psychological state of society as a whole. My memory of Britain, which you can confirm just by reading the letters pages of newspapers, is that there is a substantial section of modern society which does seek vengeance on "criminals".

With issues like this and others relating to society, I always try to envisage a doomsday scenario, where humanity has succeeded in destroying itself and I'm one of a handful of survivors. What do we do ? How do we live ? How do we build a community and what agreements do we have ? How do we deal with transgressors ?

Prison is neither practical nor humane, the expansion of the prison system, brilliantly summarised by Carmody, is a clear symptom of a psycopathic society.

Rakhyt - Well said.

[Carmen]

Wow! I'm glad I don't live in the 'States', "Just kill em"' an "an eye for an eye"!! What about people who are "setup", who are wrongfully prisoned" Will it be "whoops," we made a mistake!!

There has to be a better way. Lawlessness, murder, rape etc is the terrible effect of an equally dreadful cause!! Hopelessness is another affect of a dreadful cause. We talk about this dreadful cause all the time on this forum. Does it have to be spelled out.

[spiritguide]

Here is just another dot for the Canadians to see where you are heading with regards to the need for more prisons.... Check out the linked article....

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ot...759/story.html

Welcome back Rahkyt, long time no see.

[scanner]

We are all incarcerated , a prison without bars is still a prison .

[percival tyro]

Incarceration followed by the cold blooded killing of any life form is not the way forward for any reason. All life forms are born innocent and are starting a new journey into environments that the sheeple. past and present have created. We can support any legal candidate at any election. Why do we continually support the illuminati's poodles. I don't get it (Apologies to real poodles)

[kcbc2010]

Posted by Mulder (here)
I totally agree & I don't want to repeat your information.

All I want to add is how much the sheeple LOVE hurting themselves - why do they vote for politicians who want to "get tough on crime?" When every year more and more sheeple are turned into criminals by their Govt, so their family will be sitting in jail for a long time with all these laws.

Why do the sheeple support cutting Driver Licences, or putting people who don't pay child support in jail, when it's impossible to ever pay it sitting in jail.

Now 11 years after 9.11 all these laws aimed at "terrorists" are applied to everyone, e.g. TSA grope downs, making people "prove" they got money legally (hard to do as money is not tracked like it is in a cashless society), etc. I think the sheeple are so blind, they'll only wake up at the gas-chamber - where the Nazi train always ends up.

Criminals are the only group of people who the "sheeple" are allowed to hate on. It sounded weird to me when I first came upon the idea, but then it made sense. People have aggressive emotions, but, in a lot of ways we aren't allowed to express them in productive ways. So, the lawmakers and judges came up with a group of people who we could vent our rage on w/o fear of political correctness. (In fact, they even created a lot of the criminal class by making things like drugs illegal/three strike laws, etc) It's a vicious circle.

Jail is supposed to be the humane choice these days. We don't want to execute them - and in the States where it is legal, there is an appeal process. So, it's not like the death penalty gets applied right away. That said, I always thought the founders had the right idea with "give me liberty or give me death" as in their time, jail was seen as the worse punishment of all. Now, we just warehouse people and call ourselves "enlightened".

[kcbc2010]

Posted by Carmen (here)
Wow! I'm glad I don't live in the 'States', "Just kill em"' an "an eye for an eye"!! What about people who are "setup", who are wrongfully prisoned" Will it be "whoops," we made a mistake!!

There has to be a better way. Lawlessness, murder, rape etc is the terrible effect of an equally dreadful cause!! Hopelessness is another affect of a dreadful cause. We talk about this dreadful cause all the time on this forum. Does it have to be spelled out.

Just a little perspective. Not all states have the death penalty. And those states with the death penalty often can't execute someone right away. Since the appeal process is long, people complain about criminals who are locked up and still in jail who should be dead. I kind of find it ironic that CA didn't have the death penalty when Charles Manson was convicted because I'm sure he would have gotten it. However, every few years he comes up for parole and he's denied (again), so it's hard to say which is a better mode of punishment. We want to say we are humane, but it's hard to know exactly what humane means in terms of what to do with criminals who are in "for life" or on "death row".

I know that probably sounds harsh to someone outside the US, but defendants are allowed appeals and there is a very passionate anti-death penalty movement in the US. There are times when it's "oops" we made a mistake, but it is thought that having the death penalty is worth the risk. The innocence project is one of the better known advocates for prison/criminal justice reform. http://www.innocenceproject.org/

[sdv]

I admit that I have no research or evidence to back up this claim, but ... I think that there are 'humans' walking this planet that are without a soul or have something missing (and, yes, 'white' science is putting a lot of effort into trying to find an answer) and that no rehabilitation is possible.

BUT

We cannot execute others, take part in any kind of act of vengeance of or punishment without compromising our ideals, and thus, ultimately, becoming victims ourselves.

Vengeance: I live in a country where a certain community is so fed up with thieves disrupting their lives (e.g. stealing wiring for the few cents they can get for the copper or mature full-grown men raping children under the age of 13 - more than 7 reported such rapes a day) with impunity that they have taken matters into their own hands and captured and set alight such miscreants in the street. Justice? (Well, take them to court, if you can, and a lawyer will argue and get a reduced sentence, if guilt can be established) .What I think of is the children - imagine as a child waking up to the smell of the burning flesh of street justice?

Punishment and vengeance: When we choose to punish and seek vengeance we damage all that is good on ourselves and our children. Can we not see how easily humans are corrupted and how fragile and weak we are and how we will always choose the stupid route of perceived short-term personal gain? The tables will always turn and those who seek the high ground as victims will always victimise ithers.

Yes, lock away those who are a severe threat to the life of others in society, but treat them well and review what we regard as a severe threat often?

Perhaps the answer is to consult all that we know to evaluate if a person is a threat to society, and if so, to remove that person from society but to uphold our, hopefully, values in treating those people well.