The Bible

[Wiremu2011]

"I AM" Wiremu2011 . This thread is part of the PA forum thank you, and I'm just voicing my observation of this thread and some of your responses to those who challenge your thinking about the Bible - which IMO doesn't display the humility expected of one who so passionately believes in it (as far as we can ascertain). And you still didn't answer my question.

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

What is wrong with inciting intense dislike of a religion if the activities or teachings of that religion are so outrageous, irrational or abusive of human rights that they deserve to be intensely disliked?

[greybeard]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

yes the Impersonal Self as they say

but if we trust Jesus then God is Personal

Enlightenment is a state where there is no person left.

yes this is the state of enlightenment as reported by sages

no person left


but according to Jesus we will still be persons in Heaven or hell

That is true when there is a seeming individual to go to heaven or hell.
Jesus was not speaking to enlightened sages.

The moment something is taken out of context it looses its original meaning.
Chris

[RedeZra]

Posted by Wiremu2011 (here)
"I AM" Wiremu2011 . This thread is part of the PA forum thank you, and I'm just voicing my observation of this thread and some of your responses to those who challenge your thinking about the Bible - which IMO doesn't display the humility expected of one who so passionately believes in it (as far as we can ascertain). And you still didn't answer my question.

hello Wiremu


perhaps you're a psychiatrist

since you're more concerned about my personality traits

then discussing the topic in this thread


i hope you understand that it's kinda cocky of you to come and characterize me in a not so positive way in your first post here


not even i am pleasing to everyone


and btw what you think is intelligent does not necessarily make it so

and i am a humble warrior ; )

like you maybe ?



¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

yes the Impersonal Self as they say

but if we trust Jesus then God is Personal

Enlightenment is a state where there is no person left.

yes this is the state of enlightenment as reported by sages

no person left


but according to Jesus we will still be persons in Heaven or hell

That is true when there is a seeming individual to go to heaven or hell.
Jesus was not speaking to enlightened sages.

but Jesus is God

the Creator


i think He knows what He is talking about

[RedeZra]

Posted by SKIBADABOMSKI (here)
What is wrong with inciting intense dislike of a religion if the activities or teachings of that religion are so outrageous, irrational or abusive of human rights that they deserve to be intensely disliked?

well what is so outrageous with Christianity ?


i agree that today the Vatican and many churches are taken over by the ptb

but the foundation is still sound and strong

Christ

[Wiremu2011]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by SKIBADABOMSKI (here)
What is wrong with inciting intense dislike of a religion if the activities or teachings of that religion are so outrageous, irrational or abusive of human rights that they deserve to be intensely disliked?

well what is so outrageous with Christianity ?


i agree that today the Vatican and many churches are taken over by the ptb

but the foundation is still sound and strong

Christ

And where is the hard core evidence for the so called "FOUNDATION" to which you refer RedEzra? Where do you start? Perhaps at the Council of Nicea or some other place? ...which upon now there are 660 versions trolling the earth with supposedly the same meaning/interpretation..hello??? Now all those (Catholic, Protestants and all the denominations created within..) that hold dear to their own versions create nothing but division and separation. DIVISION AND SEPARATION and one more time SEPARATION AND DIVISION"
Cant you smell a rat bro???

[RedeZra]

Posted by Wiremu2011 (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)
well what is so outrageous with Christianity ?


i agree that today the Vatican and many churches are taken over by the ptb

but the foundation is still sound and strong

Christ

And where is the hard core evidence for the so called "FOUNDATION" to which you refer RedEzra? Where do you start? Perhaps at the Council of Nicea or some other place? ...which upon now there are 660 versions trolling the earth with supposedly the same meaning/interpretation..hello??? Now all those (Catholic, Protestants and all the denominations created within..) that hold dear to their own versions create nothing but division and separation. DIVISION AND SEPARATION and one more time SEPARATION AND DIVISION"
Cant you smell a rat bro???

sure i smell sulphur

satan has been struggling with the Church for a long time

and he has been successful in separating and subverting much of Christianity


but this is no surprise as it is foretold in the Bible


and if you take the time to compare the versions

then you will see there is little or no differences in the verses


the ptb who take their orders from the devil has debunked the Bible

and that ought to be if not proof then at least evidence that the bible is true


then we got thousands of testimonies about the living reality of Jesus

and artifacts and facts backing up the Bible

censored and suppressed by the ptb of course

but still available to the public at large if they bother to look for it

[gripreaper]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Claiming to know whether or not they feel what Jesus said?

you feel what Jesus really said and meant

and so the written words must be wrong

when you don't feel it's right

Quit playing semantics with my words and even slightly suggesting that you have any idea whatsoever what is within the content of my heart. I find your judgmental attitude quite disturbing, and your condescending attitude that you are the purveyor of absolute truth because you have "found" it and YOU understand it and the rest of us don't, because we don't UNDERSTAND what Jesus said? The height of arrogance is absolutely appalling to me and does not represent love and compassion at all..

If your intent is to incite others, then you have succeeded. If your intent is to reach out with love and compassion then you have failed miserably. At least with ME and my personal opinion. I guess I better be clear about that.

[Unified Serenity]

Most versions of the bible offer small nuance changes. For instance, I cut my teeth on the New International Version Study bible. You see, there is a a NIV that is not a Study bible and there is one that also is a study bible in that it offers a chain method to trace a word throughout the bible. It has commentary notes etc.. There are versions of the KJV that are straight bible, then there are study bibles, then group study bibles, then inspirational reading, child versions etc.. The biggest differences I think come when one contains the Apocrypha and another does not. The Latin Vulgate vs. the Septuagint. My second study bible was called the Open bible, I loved that one, but I kept my NIV study bible as my favorite. I love looking back at all the notes I wrote in the margins, underlines, and key thoughts on back pages. It's like a year book from days gone by.

Another great version is called the Companion bible with the studies and notes of EW Bullinger. It's a must for any serious student imho.

Afterwards, I found out about the Jewish New Testament which was AWESOME! It put things back into perspective. The names of the apostles and various other peoples were anglicized and in the JNT they were put back. John was Yochanon, Mary was Miriam, Jesus was Yeshua, Peter was Kefa, Matthew was Mattityahu or something like that. The high priest was the Cohen ha gadol, the Holy Spirit was the Ruach ha Koddesh, Samuel was Shmuel, David was David. The author, David Stern, has since done the complete bible, and incorporated the JNT into it. Here is the explanation of why he embarked on this journey.

About the Complete Jewish Bible
Why is this Bible different from all other Bibles?

"Because it is the only English version of the Bible fully Jewish in style and presentation that includes both the Tanakh ("Old Testament") and the B'rit Hadashah (New Covenant, "New Testament"). Even its title, the Complete Jewish Bible, challenges both Jews and Christians to see that the whole Bible is Jewish, the B'rit Hadashah as well as the Tanakh. Jews are challenged by the implication that without it the Tanakh is an incomplete Bible. Christians are challenged with the fact that they are joined to the Jewish people through faith in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus) -- so that because Christianity can be rightly understood only from a Jewish perspective, anti-Semitism is condemned absolutely and forever. In short, the Complete Jewish Bible restores the Jewish unity of the Bible. Also for the first time the information needed for the synagogue readings from the Torah and the Prophets is completely integrated with similar use of the B'rit Hadashah. "

http://www.onlinebible.org/html/eng/...ish-bible.html



Why does this matter? Well, understanding idioms, names, and Jewish thought of a Jewish Messiah who lived in Judea and practiced Judaism just makes sense. Of course they have some changes that are more deeply explained passages and how one can read the same passage written two different ways and get a different meaning, but what is important is what did the known texts really say? For instance, in Romans, we read, Jesus is the end of the law. Yet in the Jewish New Testament we read, "Yeshua is the goal to which the Torah aims." It says the same thing, but people will interpret one a certain way and another a completely different way. Since the Gentiles took over Messianic Judaism and turned it into Christianity of course they want to abolish the Jewish roots, Jewish festivals etc.

My point is you can use the bible to say what you want it to say, or you can read it with a heart seeking truth and in a moment of confusion ask God to help you to understand, and guide you to the means to understand. One of the best means I found was going back to the source. Get a King James Version of the Bible and a comprehensive Strong's Concordance and JP Green's Interlinear Lexicon. There you will have definitive proof of what a text is saying. That is how I found out that in Genesis, there was no snake even talked about. The word in Hebrew can be written in three ways depending on the "jots and tittles" and each way has a slightly different meaning, one of which is snake, but the earliest known texts it is not snake, but shining one. If the sun hits the scales of a snake just right they glisten. If the sun hits brass it glistens. The word was Nachash, but again it has 3 meanings depending on the marks.

Here is another lie as it is said, "Do not suffer a witch to live" is in the bible, but it's a lie. The bible does not condemn witches. It condemned people who practiced making potions as in pharmaceuticals to poison others. The word witch is not in the bible, well it's not in the manuscripts. It was quite handy to have it in the English version when those misogynistic men wanted to steal the women's land and stop them from being healers. So, they made sure that a witch was to be killed in the bible, but the word witch is not there in the real manuscripts.

I encourage you to examine your complaints about the bible and find out if they are well founded or just things some person told you that you logically and rightly said, "That's nuts". The problem is, the evil one wants you to not only say "That's nuts" but by all means necessary to never ever read the bible again, and if you do, it is only to try to prove it wrong. Why not investigate what it really says. Download the E-sword program, it's free. You can do your own searches, readings, it has a built in Strong's concordance. You can add various other versions of the bible as well. It's really an amazing program. There is only one question I have not found the answer to at this point in my search. Some that used to bug the bejeeeezus out of me I finally got my answers to, and yep, it had to do with customs of the ancient times. This last one, well, I don't really think it can be defended on it's face value, but I am still searching.

http://www.e-sword.net/

[Lettherebelight]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Another difference is that the seeking of enlightenment is radically different from being a "good" Christian/Buddhist/Moslem/Hindu etc.
All personal identification has to be released-- all belief systems/ opinions/ concepts/ labels/fundamentalism etc have to go.

humanity is divided by religions or ideologies

but i doubt God has a Multiple Personality Disorder


so where do all these religions come from ?

now that is a can of worms

God is way beyond the sectarian religions of this planet, or any other. Unlimited. We can't box Him/Her in to fit our little version of reality.

Like Unified Serenity said, God can only be realised through sincerity and devotion. I think most here understand this?

There is a nice chapter in the Bhagavada Gita called 'Divisions of Faith' which explains how everyone worships according to their own Nature...very interesting. Please don't take that as advertising one scripture over another...lol

...I think the Bible is great, if it helps one become closer to God and if you can find an authentic version...it has been changed a lot. Thank you ,Unified Serenity, for the previous post regarding the meaning of words and their usage in the Bible. Very interesting!

[lookbeyond]

Hello, thankyou for this great post Unified Serenity, I am also interested in biblical interpretation.

Kind Reguards, lookbeyond

[RedeZra]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
I find your judgmental attitude quite disturbing, and your condescending attitude that you are the purveyor of absolute truth because you have "found" it and YOU understand it and the rest of us don't, because we don't UNDERSTAND what Jesus said? The height of arrogance is absolutely appalling to me and does not represent love and compassion at all..

i do not judge and i don't mind if you do not see things my way

but i will discuss it with you and especially if you voice them here in this thread


and i don't like your cheap characterisation of me

so if you are not able to debate like an adult

then be still

Posted by gripreaper (here)
If your intent is to incite others, then you have succeeded. If your intent is to reach out with love and compassion then you have failed miserably. At least with ME and my personal opinion. I guess I better be clear about that.

my intent is to let the Bible speak about God and our place and purpose in this creation of God

and i repeat and report the written words as literal as possible

and try not to fall for fancy interpretations not called for in the Book itself


so if you don't like what the Bible says then what can i do about that

[RedeZra]

Posted by Lettherebelight (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

humanity is divided by religions or ideologies

but i doubt God has a Multiple Personality Disorder


so where do all these religions come from ?

now that is a can of worms

God is way beyond the sectarian religions of this planet, or any other. Unlimited. We can't box Him/Her in to fit our little version of reality.

i agree light


but do we live once or many times ?

where will we be when we die ?

what is the age and end this world ?

what is the point purpose and destiny of humanity ?


these are important questions

and depending on the religion or ideology

we got different answers


and that is just not good enough for serious seekers of truth

[RedeZra]

if you believe...


- there is no Almighty God

- there is no Son of God

- there is no angels nor demons

- there is no Heaven and hell

- and the devil is not god of this age

- or Jesus is not coming back to Judge


then you don't believe the Bible

[heyokah]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
if you believe...


- there is no Almighty God

- there is no Son of God

- there is no angels nor demons

- there is no Heaven and hell

- and the devil is not god of this age

- or Jesus is not coming back to Judge


then you don't believe the Bible

RIGHT !!

So what ......


Please DON'T answer RedeZra !
That will be wasted energy.

[RedeZra]

Posted by heyokah (here)

RIGHT !!

So what ......


Please DON'T answer RedeZra !
That will be wasted energy.

if you don't want me to answer

then why did you post ?


so what ?

your enemy has tricked you


nothing more nothing less

[Lettherebelight]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by Lettherebelight (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

humanity is divided by religions or ideologies

but i doubt God has a Multiple Personality Disorder


so where do all these religions come from ?

now that is a can of worms

God is way beyond the sectarian religions of this planet, or any other. Unlimited. We can't box Him/Her in to fit our little version of reality.

i agree light


but do we live once or many times ?

where will we be when we die ?

what is the age and end this world ?

what is the point purpose and destiny of humanity ?


these are important questions

and depending on the religion or ideology

we got different answers


and that is just not good enough for serious seekers of truth

That is good enough. I understand that people have different conceptions of the Absolute Truth. No problem. The Prime Minister, or King (whatever) is approached differently by his wife, his children, other Heads of State, the public...they will all have different relationships with him. But that doesn't mean he's not in charge, he is still the boss.

You get as much information as you can process, or accept. I have answers to the above questions, but I know you think we differ in understanding. To me however, there is no conflict between the two perspectives. No conflict at all. Jesus said (paraphrasing here) ' I have so much more to tell you, but you could not bear it'.

I am not referring to you of course, I can see you have a great devotion for God! just saying that none of us know absolutely everything about God...would you agree?

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

The Egg
By: Andy Weir

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.

[RedeZra]

Posted by Lettherebelight (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)
these are important questions

and depending on the religion or ideology

we got different answers


and that is just not good enough for serious seekers of truth

That is good enough. I understand that people have diferent conceptions of the Absolute Truth.

just saying that none of us know absolutely everything about God...would you agree?

yes of course

i do not question God but i do question religions since they pretend to be teachings from God


i do not think God taught different doctrines to different people

so something is seriously not right here

[greybeard]

The eye that is looking at God is the same eye that is looking back.
Enlightened ones are uniform in what they say for thousands of year.
That is their "personal" knowing--- not learned from anyone else, not out of any book, culture, or conditioning.
Its a direct realisation of Truth.

Chris