The Bible

[kreagle]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)
I'd like for "both" of you to give your "interpretation" of "one valid baptism"

the point of baptism

is to receive the Holy spirit whom the Father will send in the Name of Jesus


"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26



"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

"teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." So be it - Matthew 28:19-20



the Holy spirit is crucial for our salvation

and we only receive Him in the Name of Jesus

RedeZra,....."and"......greybeard,

Thank you,....."both of you",......for your response to my post on "one valid baptism"

I had previously "promised",....back in post #1169 of this thread,.....to get back with everyone here with my personal "Revelation".

"Here" is where I will "prayerfully,....and carefully" endeavor to do just that.

In "connection" with that "Revelation" I quoted the following Scripture.......

Ephesians 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

God,....through His Word,....has "thoroughly convinced" me that He is "no respecter of persons"(Acts 10:34), in that He,...."loves",....."treats",......and "deals",....with "each of us" in the exact same manner,.....without favoritism. "This basic concept" of "equal consideration" was in full display in the response I gave to GCS1103, back in post #1326 of this same thread. There I describe "three different types of individuals",.......1) those with "zero understanding" of God's Word,......2) those with a "marginal understanding" of God's Word,.......and....3) those with a "substantial understanding" of God's Word. The "steps" each of these "three individuals" took, in order to achieve completion of the "Gospel Message",.....were the "exact same" steps,......and "results".

I'd like to "address" one of those major steps, here.

One valid baptism

Let's "start" by looking at "The Great Commission" that our Lord, Jesus gave.....

Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Gospel of Mark speaks of this "same Great Commission" in Mark 16:14-18,......and the Gospel of Luke references it, also, in Luke 24:45-49. Matthews account and rendition of this event is more "commonly used" and quoted,.....particularly because of the "wording" that Jesus used in verse 19,....which will be addressed,....in "greater detail" shortly.

It should be noted, here, that no "actual baptism event" is recorded in "these" passages on "The Great Commission" that Jesus gave,......just the "actual planning" for this Holy ceremony being "commissioned" to His "eleven remaining disciples".

In "dealing with" and "instructing" His disciples,.....Jesus found that it "routinely required" for Him to "take His disciples to the side",.......and "expound" to them His teachings,.....Parables, etc. In His wisdom,.....Jesus wanted to "make sure" that they "understood perfectly" what His directions were in "all matters"! Jesus,.....consequently,......took "measures" to insure that His disciples were "fully instructed in His Word". The follow passages clearly show that He "left nothing to chance", in that, He made sure to it that when the World "heard from His disciples/Apostles",........they were, indeed,....."hearing from Him"!!!

Mark 4:34
King James Version (KJV)

34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Luke 24:45
King James Version (KJV)

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,



Now,.....let's see,.....how the disciples "used their understanding" that Jesus game them.


The disciples/Apostles in "action"....Implementing the Great Commission,....that our Lord, Jesus gave....

Again,.....let's look at Matthew 28:19........

Matthew 28:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



Did the disciples/Apostles "obey" Jesus,....correctly,.....in the "Implementing of the Great Commission"?

Did the disciples/Apostles "recite the passage", by Jesus,....as they performed baptismal services, in the Book of Acts, which ushered in the "Church" age, as we know it?,.........OR........did the disciples/Apostles "fulfill the passage", by Jesus,....as they performed these "same" baptismal services?

"Again",..... recite the passage,....exactly as Jesus had spoken it,......OR.......fulfill the passage,.......as Jesus would have wanted them to do?

(notes of consideration)

1. Baptisms carried out by John the Baptist were "all" entirely prior to the Resurrection, and the ushering in of the "Church" age,....first defined and mentioned in Acts 2:47. As such,....no formula was uttered by John the Baptist in the performance of these baptisms,.....other than being "baptized unto repentance".

2. From this point on,....I will refer to the disciples/Apostles,.....as "Apostles",..only. The word "disciples" means followers of Jesus,.......whereas "they" became "Apostles",....meaning "doers" of the Works/Words of Jesus.

As Apostles, "doers", of Jesus' Works/Words,......let's see what they "actually DID"!


(Actual Baptisms performed by the Apostles)

1) Acts 2:37-38,....the "Day of Pentecost"....3,120 souls,...."Church began"!

Acts 2:37-38
King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


2) Acts 8:14-17,....."Church" established in Samaria

Acts 8:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


3) Acts 10:43-48,......."gentile believers"....Cornelius and household added to "Church"

Acts 10:43-48
King James Version (KJV)

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

(note.....while it may be pointed out, the KJV, .....does not specifically mention "a name", here,....."all" of these Bible versions,......The New International Version, Revised Version, Amplified Version, Living Bible, Greek Interlinear (the "original" text), Common English Version, Contemporary English Version, English Standard Version, GOD'S WORD Translation, Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, J.B. Phillips New Testament, Lexham English Bible, The Message, Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament, New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, Worldwide English (New Testament), and Wycliffe Bible,.....DO ALL state,......"in the name of Jesus Christ"!,......It is equally noteworthy to recognize that the Complete Jewish Bible has it recorded, as follows........"48 And he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. That's "JESUS",.....to you and me!)


4) Acts 19:1-7,......The 12 disciples of John the Baptist re-baptized

Acts 19:1-7
King James Version (KJV)

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.


We've just now observed "four actual baptismal accounts", in the Scriptures,....by the Apostles,....who "had their understanding opened, that they might understand the scriptures."

Now,.....let's look, again,....at "The Great Commission", given by Jesus, in Matthew Chapter 28.

Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


It should be especially noted,.....and recognized, here, .....that Jesus wanted "more" out of His Apostles than for them to "merely recite the words", that He spoke and directed to them in this passage! He wanted them to "specify the NAME",......His NAME,.....JESUS,......and "they DID just that",.....they baptized "exclusively" in the name of Jesus,.......EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!.


Look at verse 19, one more time,.......He said,...."in the name,......of the Father,....and.....of the Son,......and......of the Holy Ghost".

A "single" name was to used and "implemented" here,.......AND IT WAS,......by "those who understood Him",......they "exclusively" baptized in the name, (singular), of Jesus!,......."fulfilling what Jesus meant in the Great Commission",.....and not "just reciting His words".

The Apostles "fully understood",.....that the "name", (singular),.....of the Father,...Son,....and Holy Ghost,......was.......JESUS!


There is absolutely "no baptismal accounts",......ZERO,.......where the Apostles,.....or anyone else,......EVER baptized,.......using "or" reciting,......the phrase,......"in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" To do so would have meant to "exclude" the "actual NAME"!

(In conclusion)

Sadly, in the "face of Scriptural proof",.....there are many who say that it really doesn't matter,.......that "as long as your heart is right",.......any "baptismal formula" will suffice.

"If" that's correct,......why don't we see,....."EVER",..... the Apostles "ever using" an "alternative formula"?

Could it be that "they" understood there was only one way to "correctly" perform Baptisms?

Could it be that "they" understood that there would only be "ONE NAME" that could possibly be used in the act of "obtaining one's salvation"?


Could it be that "they" understood "that name" to be,.........JESUS???

Acts 4:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I think "they" must have understood the scriptures,..........don't you?

I think that "they" fully understood,......that there was only "one valid baptism"

What do you think?


Love and Peace,.........kreagle

[RedeZra]

Posted by kreagle (here)
I think that "they" fully understood,......that there was only "one valid baptism"

What do you think?


Love and Peace,.........kreagle

tnx i think you got it right ; )


"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. - John 14:26


"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." - Act 4:12


And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Mat 28:18

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by kreagle (here)

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)
I'd like for "both" of you to give your "interpretation" of "one valid baptism"

the point of baptism

is to receive the Holy spirit whom the Father will send in the Name of Jesus


"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26



"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

"teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." So be it - Matthew 28:19-20



the Holy spirit is crucial for our salvation

and we only receive Him in the Name of Jesus

RedeZra,....."and"......greybeard,

Thank you,....."both of you",......for your response to my post on "one valid baptism"

I had previously "promised",....back in post #1169 of this thread,.....to get back with everyone here with my personal "Revelation".

"Here" is where I will "prayerfully,....and carefully" endeavor to do just that.

In "connection" with that "Revelation" I quoted the following Scripture.......

Ephesians 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

God,....through His Word,....has "thoroughly convinced" me that He is "no respecter of persons"(Acts 10:34), in that He,...."loves",....."treats",......and "deals",....with "each of us" in the exact same manner,.....without favoritism. "This basic concept" of "equal consideration" was in full display in the response I gave to GCS1103, back in post #1326 of this same thread. There I describe "three different types of individuals",.......1) those with "zero understanding" of God's Word,......2) those with a "marginal understanding" of God's Word,.......and....3) those with a "substantial understanding" of God's Word. The "steps" each of these "three individuals" took, in order to achieve completion of the "Gospel Message",.....were the "exact same" steps,......and "results".

I'd like to "address" one of those major steps, here.

One valid baptism

Let's "start" by looking at "The Great Commission" that our Lord, Jesus gave.....

Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Gospel of Mark speaks of this "same Great Commission" in Mark 16:14-18,......and the Gospel of Luke references it, also, in Luke 24:45-49. Matthews account and rendition of this event is more "commonly used" and quoted,.....particularly because of the "wording" that Jesus used in verse 19,....which will be addressed,....in "greater detail" shortly.

It should be noted, here, that no "actual baptism event" is recorded in "these" passages on "The Great Commission" that Jesus gave,......just the "actual planning" for this Holy ceremony being "commissioned" to His "eleven remaining disciples".

In "dealing with" and "instructing" His disciples,.....Jesus found that it "routinely required" for Him to "take His disciples to the side",.......and "expound" to them His teachings,.....Parables, etc. In His wisdom,.....Jesus wanted to "make sure" that they "understood perfectly" what His directions were in "all matters"! Jesus,.....consequently,......took "measures" to insure that His disciples were "fully instructed in His Word". The follow passages clearly show that He "left nothing to chance", in that, He made sure to it that when the World "heard from His disciples/Apostles",........they were, indeed,....."hearing from Him"!!!

Mark 4:34
King James Version (KJV)

34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Luke 24:45
King James Version (KJV)

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,



Now,.....let's see,.....how the disciples "used their understanding" that Jesus game them.


The disciples/Apostles in "action"....Implementing the Great Commission,....that our Lord, Jesus gave....

Again,.....let's look at Matthew 28:19........

Matthew 28:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



Did the disciples/Apostles "obey" Jesus,....correctly,.....in the "Implementing of the Great Commission"?

Did the disciples/Apostles "recite the passage", by Jesus,....as they performed baptismal services, in the Book of Acts, which ushered in the "Church" age, as we know it?,.........OR........did the disciples/Apostles "fulfill the passage", by Jesus,....as they performed these "same" baptismal services?

"Again",..... recite the passage,....exactly as Jesus had spoken it,......OR.......fulfill the passage,.......as Jesus would have wanted them to do?

(notes of consideration)

1. Baptisms carried out by John the Baptist were "all" entirely prior to the Resurrection, and the ushering in of the "Church" age,....first defined and mentioned in Acts 2:47. As such,....no formula was uttered by John the Baptist in the performance of these baptisms,.....other than being "baptized unto repentance".

2. From this point on,....I will refer to the disciples/Apostles,.....as "Apostles",..only. The word "disciples" means followers of Jesus,.......whereas "they" became "Apostles",....meaning "doers" of the Works/Words of Jesus.

As Apostles, "doers", of Jesus' Works/Words,......let's see what they "actually DID"!


(Actual Baptisms performed by the Apostles)

1) Acts 2:37-38,....the "Day of Pentecost"....3,120 souls,...."Church began"!

Acts 2:37-38
King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


2) Acts 8:14-17,....."Church" established in Samaria

Acts 8:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


3) Acts 10:43-48,......."gentile believers"....Cornelius and household added to "Church"

Acts 10:43-48
King James Version (KJV)

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

(note.....while it may be pointed out, the KJV, .....does not specifically mention "a name", here,....."all" of these Bible versions,......The New International Version, Revised Version, Amplified Version, Living Bible, Greek Interlinear (the "original" text), Common English Version, Contemporary English Version, English Standard Version, GOD'S WORD Translation, Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, J.B. Phillips New Testament, Lexham English Bible, The Message, Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament, New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, Worldwide English (New Testament), and Wycliffe Bible,.....DO ALL state,......"in the name of Jesus Christ"!,......It is equally noteworthy to recognize that the Complete Jewish Bible has it recorded, as follows........"48 And he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. That's "JESUS",.....to you and me!)


4) Acts 19:1-7,......The 12 disciples of John the Baptist re-baptized

Acts 19:1-7
King James Version (KJV)

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.


We've just now observed "four actual baptismal accounts", in the Scriptures,....by the Apostles,....who "had their understanding opened, that they might understand the scriptures."

Now,.....let's look, again,....at "The Great Commission", given by Jesus, in Matthew Chapter 28.

Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


It should be especially noted,.....and recognized, here, .....that Jesus wanted "more" out of His Apostles than for them to "merely recite the words", that He spoke and directed to them in this passage! He wanted them to "specify the NAME",......His NAME,.....JESUS,......and "they DID just that",.....they baptized "exclusively" in the name of Jesus,.......EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!.


Look at verse 19, one more time,.......He said,...."in the name,......of the Father,....and.....of the Son,......and......of the Holy Ghost".

A "single" name was to used and "implemented" here,.......AND IT WAS,......by "those who understood Him",......they "exclusively" baptized in the name, (singular), of Jesus!,......."fulfilling what Jesus meant in the Great Commission",.....and not "just reciting His words".

The Apostles "fully understood",.....that the "name", (singular),.....of the Father,...Son,....and Holy Ghost,......was.......JESUS!


There is absolutely "no baptismal accounts",......ZERO,.......where the Apostles,.....or anyone else,......EVER baptized,.......using "or" reciting,......the phrase,......"in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" To do so would have meant to "exclude" the "actual NAME"!

(In conclusion)

Sadly, in the "face of Scriptural proof",.....there are many who say that it really doesn't matter,.......that "as long as your heart is right",.......any "baptismal formula" will suffice.

"If" that's correct,......why don't we see,....."EVER",..... the Apostles "ever using" an "alternative formula"?

Could it be that "they" understood there was only one way to "correctly" perform Baptisms?

Could it be that "they" understood that there would only be "ONE NAME" that could possibly be used in the act of "obtaining one's salvation"?


Could it be that "they" understood "that name" to be,.........JESUS???

Acts 4:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I think "they" must have understood the scriptures,..........don't you?

I think that "they" fully understood,......that there was only "one valid baptism"

What do you think?


Love and Peace,.........kreagle

Kreagle,

I respect your right to express yourself however you want to do so, but your wild color code writing is not pleasant for me to read and therefore I have stopped reading your responses. It's not that I do not want to read what you have to say, it's that it is very chaotic for me and disturbs my spirit. I guess it would be as if I were trying to listen to a musician and all they hit were discordant notes. I would never pull up a seat to hear them again.

[kreagle]

Unified Serenity,

Would you "care" for a "black and white" version? Would "that" cause you to read it,.....or are you just looking for an excuse?

Love and Peace,.........kreagle


For Unified Serenity,.......


RedeZra,....."and"......greybeard,

Thank you,....."both of you",......for your response to my post on "one valid baptism"

I had previously "promised",....back in post #1169 of this thread,.....to get back with everyone here with my personal "Revelation".

"Here" is where I will "prayerfully,....and carefully" endeavor to do just that.

In "connection" with that "Revelation" I quoted the following Scripture.......

Ephesians 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

God,....through His Word,....has "thoroughly convinced" me that He is "no respecter of persons"(Acts 10:34), in that He,...."loves",....."treats",......and "deals",....with "each of us" in the exact same manner,.....without favoritism. "This basic concept" of "equal consideration" was in full display in the response I gave to GCS1103, back in post #1326 of this same thread. There I describe "three different types of individuals",.......1) those with "zero understanding" of God's Word,......2) those with a "marginal understanding" of God's Word,.......and....3) those with a "substantial understanding" of God's Word. The "steps" each of these "three individuals" took, in order to achieve completion of the "Gospel Message",.....were the "exact same" steps,......and "results".

I'd like to "address" one of those major steps, here.

One valid baptism

Let's "start" by looking at "The Great Commission" that our Lord, Jesus gave.....

Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Gospel of Mark speaks of this "same Great Commission" in Mark 16:14-18,......and the Gospel of Luke references it, also, in Luke 24:45-49. Matthews account and rendition of this event is more "commonly used" and quoted,.....particularly because of the "wording" that Jesus used in verse 19,....which will be addressed,....in "greater detail" shortly.

It should be noted, here, that no "actual baptism event" is recorded in "these" passages on "The Great Commission" that Jesus gave,......just the "actual planning" for this Holy ceremony being "commissioned" to His "eleven remaining disciples".

In "dealing with" and "instructing" His disciples,.....Jesus found that it "routinely required" for Him to "take His disciples to the side",.......and "expound" to them His teachings,.....Parables, etc. In His wisdom,.....Jesus wanted to "make sure" that they "understood perfectly" what His directions were in "all matters"! Jesus,.....consequently,......took "measures" to insure that His disciples were "fully instructed in His Word". The follow passages clearly show that He "left nothing to chance", in that, He made sure to it that when the World "heard from His disciples/Apostles",........they were, indeed,....."hearing from Him"!!!

Mark 4:34
King James Version (KJV)

34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Luke 24:45
King James Version (KJV)

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,



Now,.....let's see,.....how the disciples "used their understanding" that Jesus game them.


The disciples/Apostles in "action"....Implementing the Great Commission,....that our Lord, Jesus gave....

Again,.....let's look at Matthew 28:19........

Matthew 28:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



Did the disciples/Apostles "obey" Jesus,....correctly,.....in the "Implementing of the Great Commission"?

Did the disciples/Apostles "recite the passage", by Jesus,....as they performed baptismal services, in the Book of Acts, which ushered in the "Church" age, as we know it?,.........OR........did the disciples/Apostles "fulfill the passage", by Jesus,....as they performed these "same" baptismal services?

"Again",..... recite the passage,....exactly as Jesus had spoken it,......OR.......fulfill the passage,.......as Jesus would have wanted them to do?

(notes of consideration)

1. Baptisms carried out by John the Baptist were "all" entirely prior to the Resurrection, and the ushering in of the "Church" age,....first defined and mentioned in Acts 2:47. As such,....no formula was uttered by John the Baptist in the performance of these baptisms,.....other than being "baptized unto repentance".

2. From this point on,....I will refer to the disciples/Apostles,.....as "Apostles",..only. The word "disciples" means followers of Jesus,.......whereas "they" became "Apostles",....meaning "doers" of the Works/Words of Jesus.

As Apostles, "doers", of Jesus' Works/Words,......let's see what they "actually DID"!


(Actual Baptisms performed by the Apostles)

1) Acts 2:37-38,....the "Day of Pentecost"....3,120 souls,...."Church began"!

Acts 2:37-38
King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


2) Acts 8:14-17,....."Church" established in Samaria

Acts 8:14-17
King James Version (KJV)

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


3) Acts 10:43-48,......."gentile believers"....Cornelius and household added to "Church"

Acts 10:43-48
King James Version (KJV)

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

(note.....while it may be pointed out, the KJV, .....does not specifically mention "a name", here,....."all" of these Bible versions,......The New International Version, Revised Version, Amplified Version, Living Bible, Greek Interlinear (the "original" text), Common English Version, Contemporary English Version, English Standard Version, GOD'S WORD Translation, Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, J.B. Phillips New Testament, Lexham English Bible, The Message, Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament, New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, Worldwide English (New Testament), and Wycliffe Bible,.....DO ALL state,......"in the name of Jesus Christ"!,......It is equally noteworthy to recognize that the Complete Jewish Bible has it recorded, as follows........"48 And he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. That's "JESUS",.....to you and me!)


4) Acts 19:1-7,......The 12 disciples of John the Baptist re-baptized

Acts 19:1-7
King James Version (KJV)

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.


We've just now observed "four actual baptismal accounts", in the Scriptures,....by the Apostles,....who "had their understanding opened, that they might understand the scriptures."

Now,.....let's look, again,....at "The Great Commission", given by Jesus, in Matthew Chapter 28.

Matthew 28:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


It should be especially noted,.....and recognized, here, .....that Jesus wanted "more" out of His Apostles than for them to "merely recite the words", that He spoke and directed to them in this passage! He wanted them to "specify the NAME",......His NAME,.....JESUS,......and "they DID just that",.....they baptized "exclusively" in the name of Jesus,.......EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!.


Look at verse 19, one more time,.......He said,...."in the name,......of the Father,....and.....of the Son,......and......of the Holy Ghost".

A "single" name was to used and "implemented" here,.......AND IT WAS,......by "those who understood Him",......they "exclusively" baptized in the name, (singular), of Jesus!,......."fulfilling what Jesus meant in the Great Commission",.....and not "just reciting His words".

The Apostles "fully understood",.....that the "name", (singular),.....of the Father,...Son,....and Holy Ghost,......was.......JESUS!


There is absolutely "no baptismal accounts",......ZERO,.......where the Apostles,.....or anyone else,......EVER baptized,.......using "or" reciting,......the phrase,......"in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" To do so would have meant to "exclude" the "actual NAME"!

(In conclusion)

Sadly, in the "face of Scriptural proof",.....there are many who say that it really doesn't matter,.......that "as long as your heart is right",.......any "baptismal formula" will suffice.

"If" that's correct,......why don't we see,....."EVER",..... the Apostles "ever using" an "alternative formula"?

Could it be that "they" understood there was only one way to "correctly" perform Baptisms?

Could it be that "they" understood that there would only be "ONE NAME" that could possibly be used in the act of "obtaining one's salvation"?


Could it be that "they" understood "that name" to be,.........JESUS???

Acts 4:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I think "they" must have understood the scriptures,..........don't you?

I think that "they" fully understood,......that there was only "one valid baptism"

What do you think?


Love and Peace,.........kreagle

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Unified Serenity,

Would you "care" for a "black and white" version? Would "that" cause you to read it,.....or are you just looking for an excuse?

Love and Peace,.........kreagle

Kreagle, I am insulted at this minute by your insinuating I would

A. Look for an excuse
B. Need an excuse
C. Want an excuse

I believe I said exactly what I desired. You can do whatever the eff you want, I will do what I want at this point.

[kreagle]

Unified Serenity,

I am at a loss on what to say to you. Quite frankly, your "response" back to me does nothing but "confirm" my suspicions. I have never been "harsh" to you,.....or anyone else on this board. I intend to keep it that way. If you "feel" that you been "insulted",......I profoundly apologize! Are you sure it's the "color" of my text that "really bothers you",.......or........is it the "content"? I guess I should have the equal right to feel "insulted",.....with your blatant choice of "language",......but I choose to be more mature in the matter.

Love and Peace,........kreagle

[Unified Serenity]

Kreagle,

I said exactly what was bothering me with your style of writing. You showed that you can't understand that sometimes people say what they mean and mean what they say. It was an insult for you to suggest that I need some excuse to not interact with you, and yet on your subsequent posts I notice you are no longer acting like a kindergardener grabbing a new crayon for every other word. Now, is that a coincidence that you KNEW what I meant and just wanted to pick a fight or did you get some rhema between my telling to to do what the eff you want and your next post? Note, you edited your short post to add all that afterwards.

Your original post said only this:

Unified Serenity,

Would you "care" for a "black and white" version? Would "that" cause you to read it,.....or are you just looking for an excuse?

Love and Peace,.........kreagle

When you do a sizable edit and not just a typo correction it is best to make a note that you are adding to your post so as to not leave others with a different impression. I simply add a new post which puts in a nice red "edit" note and the readers can understand I have added thoughts. I do appreciate your not using multiple colors now, and I think you knew what I meant when I typed my rather nice note about it to begin with. You chose to throw out an insult by insinuating I was looking for an excuse to not interact with you. I think most people on this forum know by now that I don't look for excuses to not interact with those I disagree with.

[kreagle]

Unified Serenity,

Two of your "recent posts",........#1289........and.........#1372,.........gave me the "previous impression" that you really didn't have a problem with "colors", so I consequently felt that you had "other issues" with my post.

In post #1289, by you, you promote the "Complete Jewish Bible" and then go on to suggest that we download the e-sword,.....which was "very colorful" to say the least. How do you use this site, if "colors" bother you that much? (note: the "same" identical reason this commentary uses "colors",.....is "why"......I use colors, too!)

In post #1372, by you,.....(which is nicely done, I might add),.....you don't seem to mind using a "good deal" of "blues" and "purples"

Surely you don't mean that "colors" are meant........only for you!!!

(note.......I repeat, again, I'm sorry if you are offended!)

Let's not spend any more time on this "off colored" topic.

Love and Peace,.....please!,......kreagle

[Unified Serenity]

I use one color on an entire sentence. I use bold to emphasize, and I use say purple to really emphasize and it again is in a single block. I do not change colors throughout a sentence the way you do, and most of my writing is not as yours has been with constant color changes. I only do this on quoting a larger biblical passage and change the color of the sentences of direct relation to the point I was making. It is entirely different from your style. I will go so far as to say, if anyone agrees with me regarding what I have said here, please speak up. If you disagree, by all means do that as well. I simply said your constant color changes are disquieting to my spirit to read, and confusing. I therefore won't read those posts any longer if you choose to keep up that style.

If my changing the entire color of one or two sentences is an immense problem and someone tells me, then I will consider changing that for them if I wish have them participate in my threads. Please go back over the plethora of posts I have made and not you and I have very different styles, even when I use colors. [Edit to add this sentence] This post is how I emphasize. [end edit]

It's not back and forth back and forth red blue green one bold one not bold like this example of your writing:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


It should be especially noted,.....and recognized, here, .....that Jesus wanted "more" out of His Apostles than for them to "merely recite the words", that He spoke and directed to them in this passage! He wanted them to "specify the NAME",......His NAME,.....JESUS,......and "they DID just that",.....they baptized "exclusively" in the name of Jesus,.......EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!.


Look at verse 19, one more time,.......He said,...."in the name,......of the Father,....and.....of the Son,......and......of the Holy Ghost".

A "single" name was to used and "implemented" here,.......AND IT WAS,......by "those who understood Him",......they "exclusively" baptized in the name, (singular), of Jesus!,......."fulfilling what Jesus meant in the Great Commission",.....and not "just reciting His words".

The Apostles "fully understood",.....that the "name", (singular),.....of the Father,...Son,....and Holy Ghost,......was.......JESUS!


There is absolutely "no baptismal accounts",......ZERO,.......where the Apostles,.....or anyone else,......EVER baptized,.......using "or" reciting,......the phrase,......"in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" To do so would have meant to "exclude" the "actual NAME"!

(In conclusion)

Sadly, in the "face of Scriptural proof",.....there are many who say that it really doesn't matter,.......that "as long as your heart is right",.......any "baptismal formula" will suffice.

"If" that's correct,......why don't we see,....."EVER",..... the Apostles "ever using" an "alternative formula"?

Could it be that "they" understood there was only one way to "correctly" perform Baptisms?

Could it be that "they" understood that there would only be "ONE NAME" that could possibly be used in the act of "obtaining one's salvation"?


Could it be that "they" understood "that name" to be,.........JESUS???

Acts 4:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I think "they" must have understood the scriptures,..........don't you?

I think that "they" fully understood,......that there was only "one valid baptism"

What do you think?

Your last sentence of "What do you think"" is leaving me going, "what the hell did you just say?" I find it very hard to follow that style of writing. Again, if you wish to have me interact, then stop doing it. The judicious use of color is to emphasize, but if every other word is emphasized via a different color then nothing is emphasized really, and it's just hard to read. You decide, I will respond accordingly by either participating or not.

[kreagle]

Unified Serenity,

The saddest thing about all of this is that "instead" of you absorbing the "content" of this post,.....as it was intended for,......it has developed into something entirely different.

Just recently, in your post #1350, you testify about the "blessing you received" by being able to participate in the baptizing of a few people. You even go a "step further", by indicating that you understand the proper way to do this,......and that's in the name of Jesus,.......not His Titles,.....of Father,...Son,....and Holy Ghost. To that I say,......God Bless You,....immensely!! This was the "whole purpose" of my post,......to bring out the declaration of the Scripture, in that,......there is "one valid baptism".

I will honestly "attempt" to cut down on my usage of so many colors in the future. As I readily admitted, earlier,.......as in the case of the "e-sword commentary" you advised us about,.....I was "equally" highlighting passages in an effort to "point out" the many "hidden gems" that are contained in the Word of God. It is extremely frustrating to observe so many people "overlooking" some of the most beautiful concepts in His Word. I confess I am completely guilty of "going to the extremes" in an attempt to "show" someone the truth. Maybe you won't hold this against me, forever!

Your servant and friend,.......kreagle

[Lettherebelight]

I agree with Unified Serenity in that multi coloured posts are unpleasant to read, not because of the content, just the colour changing and then changing and then changing....Why! Does the author think it makes the message more attractive? Or understandable?

Remember, females generally do not suffer from colour blindness and have a keener perception of colours, textures, etc.

Anyhoo, I usually skip over those multi coloured posts as I find them nerve jangling. But I always read the 'Love and peace.......kreagle' !

[RedeZra]

look the children of God is not above quarreling about colors

isn't that cute ; )

[greybeard]

Regardless kreagle went to a lot of time and effort to produce the work of art and I appreciate both the black and whit and the other version.
Chris

[kreagle]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Regardless kreagle went to a lot of time and effort to produce the work of art and I appreciate both the black and whit and the other version.
Chris

greybeard,

Your kind words mean a great deal to me. You are "correct", in that, a good deal of time was expended in "gathering my thoughts" and submitting this. Regardless,.....there is no amount of time that is not worth spending on "lifting up the name of Jesus."

I am mortified when I think of the multitude of people who wind up "spending a lifetime rubbing elbows" with Jesus,......but actually never progress to the "next stage" of knowing Him! This is compounded by the fact that "most" feel that this is perfectly "acceptable",.....to only have a "casual" acquaintance with Him. Nothing could be further from the truth!

Matthew 7:22-24
King James Version (KJV)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


This passage of Scripture should be "extremely sobering" to those who read it. It fully indicates that it will definitely take more than just a "casual acquaintance" with God. If we truly want to be "known by God",........than we better make sure that "we" get to know Him!! It "is" a two-way street,.....if you catch my drift!

Did I go "overboard" in my presentation on "who He is"?,......YES!

Would I do it "again"?,.........YES!,.....I would!

"Someone",......just might,.......be "eternally grateful",......for it,....one day!!

"NOT",.....to me, kreagle,........but,....to HIM,.......for He is the only one that matters!!!


Once again,.....thank you, my friend

Love and Peace,...........kreagle

[HORIZONS]

I was going to post this idea on another thread, but alas, it was closed - so I will post it here as it relates to my understanding of the Bible.

I feel that the Bible is a spiritual book, and that it is in the light of revelation and spiritual understanding that I receive the most from it. I personally think that there are several ways people can understand the Bible, to some level, but for me it is the spiritual interpretation of the scriptures that makes the most sense. I seek the revelation knowledge of what is being said, and try not to get bogged down in the letter of it all, but I still try and listen to everyones POV. With that being said, I would like to address this issue from my understanding of the Bible. I realize that there are MANY things going on in the earth today - some we know of and some we do not - but I am still always drawn back to my roots, and my spiritual understanding of who I am.

Acts 17:24-28 "GOD who made the universe and everything in it--He, being Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in sanctuaries built by men. Nor is He ministered to by human hands, as though He needed anything--but He Himself gives to all men life and breath and all things. He caused to spring from one forefather people of every race, for them to live on the whole surface of the earth, and marked out for them an appointed span of life and the boundaries of their homes; that they might seek God, if perhaps they could grope for Him and find Him. Yes, though He is not far from any one of us. For it is in closest union with Him that we live and move and have our being; as in fact some of the poets in repute among yourselves have said, `For we are also His offspring.'". -Weymouth.

If God has created all the races of mankind from one forefather then who are the true Children of Abraham, and heirs of the promise of God?

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."(Matthew 1:1, KJV).

The first thing that must be understood is that Jesus is recorded as one of the sons of Abraham. In fact He is the last son listed in Abraham's genealogy. Jesus, the Christ, is the last person listed in the generations of Abraham. Why is that, and what happened to the lineage after Christ Jesus?

Abraham is the father of faith, and everything about him pointed to Christ. The Abrahamic covenant is summed up in the Christ. " In you all the families of the earth will be blessed," is the declaration about God's covenant with Abraham. This covenant is fulfilled in the person and work of Christ – for it is in Him that all the families of the earth receive their blessing. For salvation from this world of sin and darkness comes to us by no other name/nature than that of Christ Jesus.

So, Christ Jesus is the last one listed in the lineage of Abraham, and it is in Christ that the genealogy continues.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ." (Galatians 3:16, KJV).
It is important to notice that the promise was made to "Abraham and his seed " and that the seed is Christ. The promise is transferred from a natural people in the Old Covenant, to a spiritual people in the New Covenant. Now, no one is excluded from the promises made to Abraham. Christ is the seed of Abraham, and it is now the people in Christ that are the children of Abraham.

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."(Galatians 3:7, KJV).

My NKJ renders it this way, "Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." It is only those who of faith and are born of the Spirit of God that are the true children of Abraham. This is how the New Covenant works. The natural nation of Israel is no longer the “chosen people” – the people of faith are now the true Israel.
In Christ the Genealogy changed from a natural people to a spiritual people. There are Jews over in Israel, and around the world, but God is working out His covenant in a spiritual people, born of the spirit; who are now the true Israel of God. It matters not what nationality you are, it is weather you are in Christ or not.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:27-29, KJV).

You are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise if you are in Christ. The true church is the children of Abraham, the Israel of God. We are of the Jerusalem which is above, that which is of the Spirit, which is the mother of us all; but this is not according to the flesh of man, but according to the Spirit of God. ( Gal. 4:21-31 & 5:6 & 6:15,16. Rom. 4:11. )

So, who then is the Jew?

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:28,29, KJV).

From a Biblical New Covenant understanding the true Jew is the individual that has been born of the Spirit into the spiritual Kingdom of God, that is, the one that has had the circumcision of the heart – the cutting away of the ways and means of this natural world. It is the cutting away of the man of flesh, the old Adamic nature. Again, what was natural to Abraham has become spiritual to us. The natural circumcision of Abraham's covenant with God is but a type and shadow of God's covenant with us. Circumcision of the heart is the new birth experience; it's God's covenant with us that we are saved from the realm of death and translated in to a realm of Life. You are spiritually dead before you get born from above, but at that point you leave the race of the dead, all those in Adam, and enter a brand new race, those who are in Christ. Your heart is changed; you are now a new creation in Christ, a spiritual Jew – God's chosen people. This is the true Israel today, and anyone can be in this spiritual nation – as “flesh and blood profits nothing”.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. "(1 Peter 2: 9,10, KJV).
God's chosen people are not a natural people over in the Middle East somewhere, but a spiritual people, the true church of Christ Jesus. This spiritual Israel is people for a purpose, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, that they might show forth the grace, mercy and love of God to all people. This is not a nation of elitists, but is a people that show forth the goodness of God.

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (Exodus 19:5,6, KJV).

The true church is now the children of Israel, we are the children of the promise, and the holy nation Peter was talking about. The church is to be a kingdom of priest's showing forth the praises of God to the rest of the world. This is what God has been after all along when He spoke to Abraham. It's why Christ Jesus died. His death and resurrection is the entrance into you to becoming something you had know way of becoming in your own personal self. The true Israel of God is a spiritual nation, and can be found in all nations of the world.

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Romans 9:6-8, KJV).
Paul had a longing for the natural nation of Israel to be involved in the New Covenant. All they would have to do is believe in Christ Jesus whom God had sent. So it doesn't matter what your natural birth is, but rather what your spiritual birth is. Are you in Christ or not? It's who your in, not where you come from. It's not where you were born in the flesh, but whom you’re born in after the Spirit. ( Eph. 2:11-22 & Heb. 12:22-24 & Rev. 21:2,3. )

The true Church - which is a spiritual people, not a building on the corner - is the true Israel of God. We, the spiritual people of God, are the Holy city New Jerusalem. We are kings and priests of God, a people for a purpose. We are the children of Abraham. We are called to show forth the praises of our God. We are a Royal Priesthood. Why? - "that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." (Eph.2:7 NKJ).

There is much more to this, but this is the basic understanding presented in the New Covenant according to the Pauline revelation in the Bible.

[kreagle]

HORIZONS,

Thank you for this "excellent" post! Truly we have become "a holy nation",....the "Spiritual Israel"!

I am extremely limited by time, right now, but had to respond to the content of your message.

Great,.......my friend!

Love and Peace,..........kreagle

[GCS1103]

Horizons- What a beautiful and profound post you made. I find myself in agreement with you, but could never write it down as well as you did.

[crested-duck]

November 18, 1302





AntiPope Boniface VIII of the Roman Cult





Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.





We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23-24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.





However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.









































Key Facts







Other names

Ba'al



Year of origin

1136 CE



Location

Rome



Material

Human skin, usually from sacrificed children and/or famous heretics.



List of Bulls

List of Papal Bulls














Background





A Papal Bull is a formal document issued by a Roman Cult Pontiff upon a major act of law, curse or claim to extend the power of the Cult over its claimed domination of the world, all nations, all people, all law and all religions. All legitimate Papal Bulls were issued on human skin, usually the skin of a sacrificed child, or some famous heretic. Forgeries are on calf skin or some other lesser medium.





The first legitimate Papal Bull is probably around 1136 called Ex commisso nobis by Pope Innocent II in the claimed excommunication of the Saxon (German) Pope at Magdeburg.





Unfortunately, many of the key Papal Bulls are missing (such as 1249) and most have been deliberately forged over the centuries onto calf or sheep skin, to re-write history and hide their original form on human skin. However, it is unlikely the originals on the skin of those murdered by the Cult - especially children - have been destroyed as they remain the foundation of the Roman Cult and a core source of their supernatural power.





Any claimed Papal Bulls prior 1136 must be viewed as suspect and any alleged Papal Bulls prior to 1079 are complete frauds as the Roman Cult did not claim Rome as quasi-christians until Gregory VII against the founders of the Catholic Church, the Franks.





Original source and concept of Papal Bulls





The claim that Papal Bulls are named after the bulla of ancient Roman documents is a complete absurdity - they are dedications to the Dark Lord or Ba'al Satan to whom the Roman Cult dedicate their works in secret.





The use of human skin is a fundamental prerequisite for a Papal Bull to have power as this is a concept of necromancy inherited through the Rabbi of Venice, the successors of the Sarmatians, themselves the successors of the Scythians and Tarsus, the successors of Mari and the amurru, the city founded itself from exiles of Ur.





The Latin word vellum from vellus means not only a fleece or hide but also “human” skin, indicating that at the Roman times the meaning of this form of writing material was still known.





In fact it was the Roman Cult itself through the formation of the College of Abbreviators that create the word "Parchment" to describe the fundamental form for legitimate Papal Bulls- “parchment” meaning parca = one of the three fates - the fate of death, h = letter of binding and ment/mentis = mind, thought, intention, intellect or in other words “mind/soul bound to the fate of death”.





Official Papal Method for creating Vellum/Parchment for Bulls





The awful ritual of murdering children for using their skin for Papal Bulls and other Spells was first outlined in the Grimoire of Pope Honorius III at the beginning of the 13th Century. But instead of explicitly using the word "human child", the word "kid" is used. Today, the word kids is accepted as a word for children.





The same ritual appears as standard procedure in subsequent Grimoires of black magic published by the Popes and the introduction to the specifics of the ritual may be viewed in Arthur Edward Waite's Book of Ceremonial Magic Pg 171:





Concerning the Victim of the Art





Take your kid (child); place it on a block with the throat turned upward, so that it may be easier for you to cut it; be ready with your knife, and cut the throat with a single stroke, pronouncing the name o the Spirit whom you wish to invoke. For example, say: "I slay thee, N. (name of child) in the name and to the honor of N. (name of spirit)". Have a care that two blows not be needed, but let it die at the first; then skin with the knife and while skinning it make the following Invocation...





The highest form- succession of form





Under all western law, the highest form of law and literally the highest form upon which any writing exists is a Papal Bull- based on parchment, being the skin of sacrificed children. In the system devised by the Roman Cult, no other document can claim higher standing.





This is a key reason why all legitimate Bulls were written on the skin of sacrificed innocent children, cursed, sodomised and then brutally butchered- because the Roman Cult did not publicly permit any documents to be written on parchment from human skin, no other documents could claim "human personality" and therefore real spiritual life.





Under the perverse and corrupt system of law that dominates the world today, the Roman Cult has convinced all jurisdictions to consider documents as devoid of life, except for those granted limited powers to resurrect the "dead paper" of a document to limited life, through the form of certain seals. Yet under this wholly evil and wicked system, no document has higher "life" that a Papal Bull being a satanic curse and binding usng the flesh of innocents to "trap their soul" to the form.





Regardless of this perversity, under Western law, legally Papal Bulls technically stand as the highest form of original law - therefore what they say (always written in Latin) is technically the law.





Forgeries and fraudulent Bulls on display





Unfortunately, the published and "official" version of most Papal Bulls prior to the 19th Century are deliberate fakes, with the words hardly representing anything like the original content.





This is especially significant for Papal Bulls representing historic Deeds and Wills in that such frauds when clearly noted constitutes fundamental and fatal breach in the very trust laws first created by the Papacy.





Therefore, such deliberate and conscious fraud of alterting key Papal Bulls has resulted in the collapse of all the major Trusts and Testamentary Trusts of the Papacy. The continuation of obeyance to such claimed authority itself is a fraud against the rules of Trusts and Property by which the whole world allegedly adheres and such organizations as the United Nations, the Bank for International Settlements are guilty of fundamental and gross fraud in recognizing the Vatican has any effective authority.











---------------------------------------------------



Year

Bull (Incipit)

Translation

Issued By

Description



1136

Ex commisso nobis



Innocent II

Excommunicates Saxon Pope at Magdeburg



1155

Laudabiliter

Laudably

Adrian IV

Gives English King Henry II lordship over Ireland



1179

Manifestis Probatum



Alexander III

Recognition of the kingdom of Portugal and Afonso Henriques as the first king



1187

Audita tremendi

Hearing what terrible

Gregory VIII

Calls for the Third Crusade



1198

Post Miserabile



Innocent III

Calls for the Fourth Crusade



1213

Quia maior



Innocent III

Calls for the Fifth Crusade



1216

Religiosam vitam

The religious life

Honorius III

Established the Dominican Order



1223

Solet annuere



Honorius III

Approves the Rule of St. Francis



1232

Ille humani generis



Gregory IX

Creation of Inquisition under Dominicans



1233

Vox in Rama

A voice in Ramah

Gregory IX

Creates fear of witchcraft in Germany (Saxony)



1235

Cum hora undecima

Since the eleventh hour

Gregory IX

First bull authorizing pagan friars to preach to pagan nations



1245

Cum simus super



Innocent IV

Rome claimed primacy over Eastern Churches- creating new orthodox church.



1252

Ad exstirpanda

For the elimination

Innocent IV

Authorizes the use of torture



1296

Redemptor mundi

Redeemer of the world

Boniface VIII

Named James II of Aragon as standardbearer, captain-general, and admiral



1296

Clericis Laicos

Lay clerics

Boniface VIII

Excommunicates all members of the clergy who refuse allegience to the Holy See



1300

Antiquorum fida relatio



Boniface VIII

Creates the Jubilee Years, granting indulgences



1302

Unam Sanctam

The One Holy

Boniface VIII

Creates 1st Express Trust in history for whole Planet.



1307

Pastoralis praeminentiæ



Clement V

arrest of the Knights Templar and the confiscation of their possessions



1455

Romanus Pontifex

The Roman pontiff

Nicholas V

1st Testamentary Deed & Will & 1st Crown over Land



1481

Aeterni regis

Eternal Crown

Sixtus IV

2nd testamentary Deed & Will & 2nd Crown of People as Permanent Slaves



1537

Convocation

Assembly

Paul III

3rd Testamentary Deed & Will & 3rd Crown over Souls



1540

Regimini militantis ecclesiae

To the Government of the Church Militant

Paul III

Creation of Jesuit Order



1550

Exposcit debitum

The Duty demands

Julius III

Additional powers of Jesuits


For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontif
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[kreagle]

crested-duck,......or "anyone"?

What are the "intentions" of your previous post,..... #1398? Obviously you have "copied and pasted" this entire article from a "source" on www.One-evil.org. , as indicated at the bottom of your post. Furthermore, you have made no attempt to add any words of your own. Upon visiting this website, it is easy to tell that their main purpose is to be a "whistle-blower", of sorts, in reference to EVIL, in general. Catholicism is prominently mentioned here with a long, long, list of their ancient church history. Is this an attempt to expose, further, the many "sins" of the Catholic Church, by you?

Am I missing something here?

Love and Peace,..........kreagle

[Beren]

It is an error premise to connect Bible with any Christian religion.
Why ?

Because they claim to follow it and to be Christian churches but in fact their doctrines ,deeds, words are complete evidences against their claims.
Anyone who has attempted ,even more actively studied (as many of us are) Bible has found out that no one follows Christ and God (I mean organized religion).

There are beautiful people everywhere in any religion that claims Christ stamp on it, but as groups not a single one.

Why?

Power-lust and money reasons.
Throughout history.

Also today we find out how many other forces intermingles their fingers here. Their nature is spirit and they can take any form they like.
They were called demons and such in the past and now are called ET's.

Anyways studying Bible is a multi level task and as more you grow in awareness you find more layers in it and more gems.
Nothing is as it seems and everything is depending upon our own very will.

Jesus taught in parables because high concepts of spirit were not understandable then, even today are weakly understood.

I call everyone here that reads this thread to leave quarrel behind and delve deep into God's word.
Let us not impose our own point of view upon others forcefully for it is AGAINST spirit of Love ,thus Spirit of God ,thus spirit of Christ.

I for one can attest of the glory of Father and Son and Holy spirit for I've seen it in my life and I've living it daily in growing in understanding of God.
Only one word of caution- stay away from embodiment of fear (whomever and whatever that may be) and closed mind.
Otherwise you will not move a single step forward.