Drake: Updates, clarifications and more

[SKAWF]

something occurs to me.
its connected with this topic but not directly.

i'm listening to tonights show (well, last nights)

it starts with 'god bless the USA'

i found myself pulling back to look at things from a wider more abstract perspective.
it cant be denied that americans do love their country.
something which continues even as the administration tries to destroy it.

and on the one hand i think, well, if you love your country so much,
how can you stand there and let it fall down around you?

are you so blind that you'll pump out patriotism
while ignoring the fact that you're being attacked?

some see it, and they are attacked by those that dont.

i went from there to thinking about the mechanism of the solution.

so,,,, its about getting the message out

almost like having a baton (the message) being passed around from person to person
surely from a bigger picture perspective, the overall objective is bigger than any one persons opinion.

'the greater good' you might say.

possibly something that should be supported, regardless of the views of any one person....

so what would i do if the baton was passed to me?............

do i pass it onto the next person, with the greater good in mind....
or do i throw it on the floor because of my own reservations?

cause its not really about me is it?

whatever is going on, affects everyone
and that includes those who's opinions are opposed to my own.

the crap we face, is all encompassing,
and requires an all encompassing solution...
not just one which is relative to my own perspective.

its not 'me', its 'we'

i try not to attack things without a very good reason

but if i were honest, i have said things that havnt helped matters.

so i'm resolved to considering the greater good.

bickering amongst ourselves serves no purpose

how much energy is wasted that way?
how many genuinely helpful things never get off the ground
because of 'in fighting'?

being polarised, divided and ruled is why we're in the situation we are in.

i think we should bare in mind, that even though your views may be opposed to mine,
that does not make you my enemy.
we are both being attacked by a third party. which we ignore as we fight amongst ourselves.

steve

[crosby]

steve, excellent. you hit it hard. there is no easy way out of this. ever. thank you.
corson

[Cjay]

Some people just can't resist their (apparently pathological) need to put others down, with sarcasm or ridicule or fake intellectualism or pseudo-superiority or impenetrable force-fields of logic. Why do they bother? Have they nothing better to do? Like using their superior intellect to do something constructive and clean up this stinking mess we call modern human society.

I wonder if those ultra-negative types ever feel good about anything or do anything worthwhile.

Sheesh!

Yes, I'm tired of all the BS. I wish for positive change in the world as a whole, which includes this microcosm of supposedly enlightened people here at Project Avalon Forum.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Cjay (here)
Some people just can't resist their (apparently pathological) need to put others down, with sarcasm or ridicule or fake intellectualism or pseudo-superiority or impenetrable force-fields of logic. Why do they bother? Have they nothing better to do? Like using their superior intellect to do something constructive and clean up this stinking mess we call modern human society.

I wonder if those ultra-negative types ever feel good about anything or do anything worthwhile.

Sheesh!

Yes, I'm tired of all the BS. I wish for positive change in the world as a whole, which includes this microcosm of supposedly enlightened people here at Project Avalon Forum.

I take the point, and of course you're right. I've been as mindful as possible not to be personally cruel or hurtful in my objectivity (i.e. stating clearly, and fairly often, that all this is dangerous, diverting nonsense, which it is ). But here's a personal statement, which I suspect others may share as also being true for them:

For the last year (which encompasses the Elenin fiasco, 11-11-11, endless talk of "Ascension" -- as in some kind of cosmic rapture, "Nibiru" snapped time and again by cellphone cameras, and now the fantasy of "mass arrests"), I've become more and more disappointed, frustrated and impatient as I read more and more nonsense all over the alternative media.

Boy, are so many of us being taken for a ride, and buying it wholesale, and not learning from our experiences.

The real frustration I have -- as David Icke has -- is with those who are smart and informed enough to know better. For them, I apply higher standards. I can understand and forgive an enthusiastic teenager, hungry for information, for soaking up dubious YouTube videos like a sponge, and learning more week by week. They are on their journey and all that is fine and natural.

But for those with a responsibility, and a voice, and a platform, and an audience, it's a lot harder to understand. There are many who have slipped up here, and I will not name them. I've named names in past posts on this thread and elsewhere -- and David Icke points the finger as well, in his own inimitable style (I've not spoken with him recently, but I'll wager he feels exactly the same frustration as I do.) Many reading this thread will know full-well who they are.

The frustration is like sitting on one's hands and watching one's team effort being wholeheartedly sabotaged by one's own colleagues. That's the rub.

***

Update: copied to David Icke personally with full permission to republish, and submitted as a comment to divinecosmos.com.

[Belle]

The name of the game appears to be distractions and diversions...a game many here seem to enjoy playing, while some of the most worthy threads are left with little interest at best or side-tracked at worse...imo.

[Sebastion]

Not to worry or be totally disgusted Bill, for all is not lost in the chaos......

[we-R-one]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I take the point, and of course you're right. I've been as mindful as possible not to be personally cruel or hurtful in my objectivity (i.e. stating clearly, and fairly often, that all this is dangerous, diverting nonsense, which it is ). But here's a personal statement, which I suspect others may share as also being true for them:

For the last year (which encompasses the Elenin fiasco, 11-11-11, endless talk of "Ascension" -- as in some kind of cosmic rapture, "Nibiru" snapped time and again by cellphone cameras, and now the fantasy of "mass arrests"), I've become more and more disappointed, frustrated and impatient as I read more and more nonsense all over the alternative media.

Boy, are so many of us being taken for a ride, and buying it wholesale, and not learning from our experiences.

The real frustration I have -- as David Icke has -- is with those who are smart and informed enough to know better. For them, I apply higher standards. I can understand and forgive an enthusiastic teenager, hungry for information, for soaking up dubious YouTube videos like a sponge, and learning more week by week. They are on their journey and all that is fine and natural.

But for those with a responsibility, and a voice, and a platform, and an audience, it's a lot harder to understand. There are many who have slipped up here, and I will not name them. I've named names in past posts on this thread and elsewhere -- and David Icke points the finger as well, in his own inimitable style (I've not spoken with him recently, but I'll wager he feels exactly the same frustration as I do.) Many reading this thread will know full-well who they are.

The frustration is like sitting on one's hands and watching one's team effort being wholeheartedly sabotaged by one's own colleagues. That's the rub.

***

It's called ego....and it takes over even the most intelligent one's in the bunch.

[we-R-one]

Posted by Belle (here)
The name of the game appears to be distractions and diversions...a game many here seem to enjoy playing, while some of the most worthy threads are left with little interest at best or side-tracked at worse...imo.

I've noticed the same thing and have posted:

".....There are many Avalon members that are coming to this conclusion and posting their experiences, but unfortunately they're being drowned out by unverifiable information such as Drake and the like types of threads........ But you know what, because many of these members who are posting these experiences aren't considered "messiah's", even by the likes of Avalon members who should know better, they are being ignored. If you look at the threads that have the most views, it's the ones' that offer no solutions and many of them focus on doom and gloom type of topics. The change is you and until the masses understand this we will continue this vicious cycle over and over again.


And as soon as this Drake stuff calms down, hopefully by the end of this week:

"I plan on posting a thread sometime this week explaining a solution in more depth. I hope to see you on there. Better yet, I hope to see every Avalonian on there and may it be the most viewed thread ever on Project Avalon."

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Cjay (here)
Some people just can't resist their (apparently pathological) need to put others down, with sarcasm or ridicule or fake intellectualism or pseudo-superiority or impenetrable force-fields of logic. Why do they bother? Have they nothing better to do? Like using their superior intellect to do something constructive and clean up this stinking mess we call modern human society.

I wonder if those ultra-negative types ever feel good about anything or do anything worthwhile.

Sheesh!

Yes, I'm tired of all the BS. I wish for positive change in the world as a whole, which includes this microcosm of supposedly enlightened people here at Project Avalon Forum.

I'll also note that trashing others by accusing them of trashing others is a bit ironic. Your post seems awfully accusatory and negative to me. You are entitled to your opinion and stating it, but it is certainly ironic to me.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Just got a reply from David (Icke) that was highly entertaining -- and also laser-sharp in its perception. He's a very good man, and I hold him in the highest regard.

I've asked for his okay to post it -- suggesting that he might want to tone it down a little for pubic consumption(!).

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------

Just got a reply from David (Icke) that was highly entertaining -- and also laser-sharp in its perception. He's a very good man, and I hold him in the highest regard.

I've asked for his okay to post it -- suggesting that he might want to tone it down a little for pubic consumption(!).

Bill, if he allows I'd much rather have the not toned down version. But, if it's only in pm, I'll accept that too :D

[we-R-one]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------

Just got a reply from David (Icke) that was highly entertaining -- and also laser-sharp in its perception. He's a very good man, and I hold him in the highest regard.

I've asked for his okay to post it -- suggesting that he might want to tone it down a little for pubic consumption(!).

Good. I like him too. He's the very person I'm going to use to validate my solution and he's dead on. And it's our fellow Avalonians, who are validating what he all ready knows and has suggested.

[Fred Steeves]

I hold David Icke in very high regards as well, as he was instrumental in my awakening, but there are others right here on this very forum who I also see in the same light. While I happen to heartilly agree with David's sentiments, I would hope that most of us by now are beyond the point of holding famous people's opinions any higher than our own, or of the ones we've come to trust and respect in our own circles.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but let's see. It seems to me that the whole point of what we're all doing here, is to get ourselves to the point where we don't necessarily need the opinions of the David Ickes, Jordan Maxwells, Bill Ryans, Drakes, etc., to come to our own conclusions about things. If this forum Bill has created is not a training ground for any who so desire to be the same type of influential individual in this world, then I don't know what it is after all.

What I do know, is that no matter what happens, all will be well, as it always has been, and always will be.

Cheers,
Fred

[9eagle9]

That is precisely what it is all about. And I know a great many people who know more than our Celebrity gurus and their star gazers. throughout all the centuries all the great masters and teachers (emphasis on Great) had the expectation that their students would exceed their knowing, that one day the master would bow to the student.

It' s basically just another symptom of loss of self, and loss of self authority and without that we are doomed to walk in circles on an individual and collective level until self authority is gained.

And Yes I very well notice how people with an iota of self authority are regarded in this forum. Those without it resent those who have it. But those same people express things that I really don't want to look at but I do and direct me to places where I'd normally not think to look. They challenge me and there's where growth is. I'm not very well equipped to argue with them if I have no idea what they are talking about in the first place. I see much of that here too.

David Icke was big eye opener for me too but as things have progressed I've noticed an area or two where correction or clarification was needed.

Any teacher is going to have slavish adherents, parasites practically, that hang on every word as gospel truth and it is those people that prevent progression. They don't do the teacher any favors.

Having noticing those areas of where clarification was needed prompted an attack from the Icke zombies. David Icke doesn't promote that sort of thing and his worshipers cause more trouble for him than good, because they are not learning. They deny any critical examination and go into George Bush mode (which I'm positive Icke doesn't promote) "If you aren't with David you are against him."

Sorry I noticed something Icke overlooked, I'll retreat back to my place in the herd and wonder why we are still in herd mode. I have myself noted several posts directed at me stating "I hope someone proves you wrong'.

Like that is going to help us. I'm wrong so the world is fixed, right? I'm wrong so that means they must be right? It doesn't work that way. That's just ego overgrowth, and its growing because of the way people attack onto things like bloodsuckers.

Jordan Maxwell, I like him a lot, he demonstrates how our language is an essential part of our programming. I'm a bit dubious about his claims of how history went down, but that is my self authority at work there. I have the self authority to make that determination. I'm okay with it, his fans that go overboard creating a Maxwell Gospel are not and I don't see Maxwell promoting that sort of emotional temperature either.

David Wilcocks I so see doing that, "Come let them adore me".

Its so demeaning to those who desperately glom on to people like that. It's so self arresting.

That is soooo old paradigm that one SEES through the behaviors and actions of others that they are not as enlightened as they'd like to think of themselves as.

Then there are the naughty negative people whose only moral and character failings are to notice this behavior.

It is all back to people clamoring for safety and if you critically examine anything they no longer feel safe. The savior may not be able to save them.

The savior wouldn't be able to keep them safe in the first place with or without critical examination. Drake will fall on his face with or without our commentary. Our commentary is meant to keep others from falling on their face with him. It may not seem compassionate but that is what core value is there no matter how 'negative' something sounds.

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
I hold David Icke in very high regards as well, as he was instrumental in my awakening, but there are others right here on this very forum who I also see in the same light. While I happen to heartilly agree with David's sentiments, I would hope that most of us by now are beyond the point of holding famous people's opinions any higher than our own, or of the ones we've come to trust and respect in our own circles.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but let's see. It seems to me that the whole point of what we're all doing here, is to get ourselves to the point where we don't necessarily need the opinions of the David Ickes, Jordan Maxwells, Bill Ryans, Drakes, etc., to come to our own conclusions about things. If this forum Bill has created is not a training ground for any who so desire to be the same type of influential individual in this world, then I don't know what it is after all.

What I do know, is that no matter what happens, all will be well, as it always has been, and always will be.

Cheers,
Fred

[mattymoto]

I really like what D. Icke has to say. I'm also looking forward to what he has yet to say.

I wasn't what you would call a Drakey, but I do hear his message. I love my country and my fellow countrymen/women. Since the age of 12 I knew what lies people were selling, and suffered depression because of it. It starts with the innocent stuff like santa, the easter bunny and all that other stuff- lies, lies, LIES! But as I got older still the lies never stopped. Church, God , governement, and the idea that doctors cured- it's all been a scam as far as the eyes can see.

Frustration and anger to the nth degree inside of me, yet nobody else can see. I do still have hope and look to a brighter future.

THERE IS NO MORE REASON FOR LIES AND SECRETS

[SilentFeathers]

Related information: Bill Wood / Brockbrader

Also, in the actual news clip they show a picture of Bill Ryan, Kerry, and David Wilcock and say they are strong supporters of Bill Wood!

Sex offender claims to be Navy SEAL with psychic abilities
http://wtkr.com/2012/05/31/newschann...6uYNxNXazXCbcc

also, case file: Criminal Complaint (District of Idaho Case # MS 12-7304) concerning Bill Wood (I haven't read it but was told it was "quite revealing"

[bekrah]

Posted by mattymoto (here)
I really like what D. Icke has to say. I'm also looking forward to what he has yet to say.

I wasn't what you would call a Drakey, but I do hear his message. I love my country and my fellow countrymen/women. Since the age of 12 I knew what lies people were selling, and suffered depression because of it. It starts with the innocent stuff like santa, the easter bunny and all that other stuff- lies, lies, LIES! But as I got older still the lies never stopped. Church, God , governement, and the idea that doctors cured- it's all been a scam as far as the eyes can see.

Frustration and anger to the nth degree inside of me, yet nobody else can see. I do still have hope and look to a brighter future.

THERE IS NO MORE REASON FOR LIES AND SECRETS

I wanted to reply to this, it's stirred something inside of me. I completely agree with you. I also think that it's a bit cruel that we tell our kids about these creatures, Santa, the Easter-bunny, the tooth fairy, and then rip it all away from them. I wonder sometimes if this isn't something used to program people into not believing in anything. I used to read these books about a mythical place called Xanth, it existed in another dimension, it was a magical place, you had dragons, and unicorns, and magic powers, and sorcerers and such. They knew about Earth, they called it Mundania. I think the real lie we've all been force-fed growing up is that a place such as Mundania exists, and that we live in it. The world is full, absolutely brimming with magic, and wonder, it's positively vibrating with it, and here we are lead to believe that all there is to life is death and taxes. Tragic.

[mattymoto]

I read the article about Brockbrader. I stopped reading when the article stated "there are no secret navy seals"


We all know that is a big load of walrus poo, and if you doubt my statement WakeTFU!!! I cannot say it any nicer. Tired of lies and secrets, and I will be the first to admit I'm guilty of lies and secrets- from now on I will not keep a secret, you ask I tell- no lies. I don't care about anyone's feelings anymore. Man-up or shut up.


I apologise if my words are too harsh or blunt.... I meant what I said.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...867#post516867

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
It seems to me that the whole point of what we're all doing here, is to get ourselves to the point where we don't necessarily need the opinions of the David Ickes, Jordan Maxwells, Bill Ryans, Drakes, etc., to come to our own conclusions about things. If this forum Bill has created is not a training ground for any who so desire to be the same type of influential individual in this world, then I don't know what it is after all.

But that's not what happens here, for the most part, unfortunately, unless learning to be incessantly attacked for one's perspective is part of the process and to deal with the vitriolic abuse that comes from offering robust discussion around a different view. What forward progress can be had with individuals who cannot fathom the 'ignore' button if there's something they don't like, rather than insisting that someone leave the forum because they have an alternative perspective that creates discomfort for some?

I'm not particularly concerned here regarding what happened to me: I've observed a steady exodus of thinkers who were prepared to offer dignified and intelligent responses to sometimes unceasing insult, while holding their perspectives autonomously. This is a training ground for what, exactly? I'm involved in some amazing projects in my physical life regarding the practice and understanding of the impact of autonomy and sui generis - spiritually, psychologically, environmentally and legally- and none of the very different individuals involved feel the need to tear another down for thinking differently. I guess it's an entirely different mind set.

I am aware that there is little to be gained by continuing to view something as achieving a goal when the initial purpose and intent has gone way off base. I would have liked to be able to say that this was a forum that I could point these individuals I'm encountering and working with to- and these are all individuals who are doing *practical, positive environmental and physical stuff*, evolving local based systems of exchange, alternative food production and housing systems and local community based solutions- and I can't recommend it to them. This to me is really unfortunate, given that the reason I came here was, in part, to find others that were interested in practical applications of new technologies and solutions, be it in any spectrum of societal expression. My partner is a top level geek who is part of a start up company that is developing tech that will allow communities and individuals incredible freedom from proprietary company strangleholds on products and services, all created through the open source community, and I did try to begin discussions about that based on the Cathedral and the Bazaar approach to autonomy based solutions, but who cared to have a discussion about the concepts when it was so much easier to deride me as an individual? Yes, I came here clearly stating certain things about my Self that seemed to bother some, and at the same time I was consistently pointing to how the perspective I was offering was based on transformation of process and platforms. I do speak a different language that in part is based on being around geeks, programmers and systems engineers- apparently having a system of communication that is based on building careful platforms of clear concepts is grounds for being accused of- and bounced for- all sorts of ridiculous crap.

That's what is tearing down so much of the 'alternative' media and discussion, in my view- and it's simply my view. I don't expect anyone else to see it that way. I just wonder where the future of 'alternative' is if, as is the case of these brilliant and practical technicians, visionaries and cultural creatives I'm having the pleasure to work with, they dismiss the 'alternative' media as a bunch of individuals who will believe anything providing there is enough exclamation marks in the headlines- as my partner says, 'is this discussion solution based or sensationalism based? Will it change anything about the way that I live my life or it is just noise?' Solution/exploration based inquiry directly leads to evolution in whatever field. It seems that very few individuals are actually able to engage in this type of exploration on a really deep level, which is unfortunate- but not unexpected.

[SEAM]

David Icke Facebook 5 hours ago:

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/6...-come-for-them