'new-age mumbo jumbo' , wishful-thinking/fantasy/escapism, or for REAL?...(proof??)

[niki]

this would probably be my final post regarding similar topics (especially when I still live and surrounded among 99% skeptic, "realistic 3D-world" type of people everyday!) :

these whole 2012, Drake, Wilcock, Fullford, Mass Arrests, Ascension, E.T, GFL help, Illuminati/NWO, etc etc.....what if all those 'realistic/skeptical/worldly' people proven to be true: that ALL of these are just 'new-age mumbo-jumbo/BS', wishful-thinking/cleverly made-up human's fantasy or escapism from 'harsh reality' ?...

also, some further important questions in my mind:

1) what is seriously the 'differences' between simply GOOD/KIND people, and "Lightworkers", "Awakened" people (like in this PA forum) ??...
so, are you all saying that being 'worldly' GOOD/KIND is still *not enough* ??..
that the MAIN *Purpose* of this earthly Life is still to -no matter what- realize all the 'conspiracy' and all these supposedly 'secret/hidden knowledge' ??...
so, what will happen to those GOOD/KIND '3D-worldly' people (if they simply don't and probably never going to know about all of these 'crazy, other-worldly' stuff/things that we're mostly talking here in this wonderful PA forum) ??...

2) so, let's say all those Drake, Fullford, Wilcock predictions and "Mass Arrests" (by E.T, "Higher Beings", etc etc!) thing is going to really happen! , how can you all really be sure 100% that then the whole world/humanity/society would definitely change 100% for better ???... because honestly (and realistically/critically/skeptically), I don't think it's going to be THAT simple/easy!...
I think in the end, what needs to happen is NOT just a mere "Mass Arrests" or "E.T helps",...because seriously and honestly, I can still see the level of corruptions, greed, Ego, evil, bad things happening in every facet of humanity, even down to my own neighbors, friends, and family!!
so in my opinion, if the world is reallyyyy want to change, then it's not simply about E.T helps, mass arrests of the 'cabals, TPTB' etc etc,....but it's the WHOLE HUMANITY (all people) needs to TOGETHER raise their consciousness and CHANGE altogether!
Now, the most important question then: is it even possible??..... considering how even among us "lightworkers", starseeds, etc here, still have our own EGO, selfishness, and we even still can't agree with each other/often quarrel/want to WIN by ourselves! etc etc!?...

3) so, back to the original OP question: in order for all of these to *NOT* be called/viewed as only merely a 'new-age mumbo jumbo', wishful-thinking/fantasy/escapism talks,... is there really any SOLID UNDENIABLE PROOF (or even solid, hard logical and convincing arguments!) so that I can show to my 99% skeptic/pragmatist/materialist/'worldly' people in my family, friends, and surrounding??...
because I really want these all to be REAL (believe me!..) ,...but,..sometimes honestly I'm soo afraid that I have gone too FAR into all these 'red-pill swallowing' and, as some of those 'worldly/skeptical' people already said/told me: "gone far into a DELUSION" !!...
how can I really/seriously PROVE to them the otherwise??... that what ALL of you here in PA forum said (and believe) to be really REAL, and not just some 'cleverly' made-up man-made BS ??...

thank you~

(PS: and sorry if this post might come as a very blatant one, I really don't mean ANY offense, but just as any other real "Truth-seeker", I'm just being very hard/bold honest, as I can, also for the good of all of us here! viewed from other perspective!)

thank you
~warm regards from Indonesia~

[Mark]

Hello. I like making lists, here's another:

1. There is plenty of evidence out there for those who wish to actually look for the existence of UFOs.
2. There is plenty of evidence out there for those who wish to actually look for it pertaining to the existence of an Elite that rules the world behind the political scenes.
3. There is plenty of evidence out there for those who wish to actually look for it supporting the paranormal abilities of human beings to do different things like remote sensing, telepathy and telekinesis.
4. There is plenty of evidence out there for those who wish to actually look for it supporting the direct experience of ghosts and non-physical consciousnesses.

Now these things are the basis of everything else.

I suggest with your skeptical friends, you show them the wealth of evidence pertaining to these basic aspects before you try to show them all of the predictions and channelings and such.

It'll probably go better for you if you are able to open their eyes to the existence of capacities and realities outside of their mundane experiences before you slam them over the head with disinformation, negative ET vs positive ETs, different dimensions, deep undercover whistleblowers and earth changes.

Good luck!

[the_vast_mystery]

There is evidence for the literal existence of UFOs as unidentified flying objects; there is little direct evidence proving these craft are piloted let alone used by any alien race or alliance.
There is plenty of evidence to show that our current system of government is by and large a fraud being manipulated covertly by business interests; there is little evidence which can directly implicate any source beyond evolved human greed.
There is plenty of evidence that there are certain phenomena (such as near death experiences) which exist entirely outside the realm of explanation from the default position of deterministic materialism most scientists argue from; there is little direct evidence which can prove the existence of remote viewing, telepathy or telekinesis in any one individual that has received rigorous scientific evaluation.
There is plenty of evidence that EVP is a legitimate phenomena and that therefore non-physical consciousness may exist; there is little causative evidence to show these phenomena are in fact the spirits of the dearly departed or beings who were in any way at one point human.

In this case it's important to understand the sort of evidence that matters to the people you're speaking to. In specific peer-reviewed scientific studies which can confirm with certainty not just correlations but causation of acts. We all base our worldview on at least one or two unproven postulates (things we're willing to accept without direct evidence) and in the case of the skeptics it's simply a belief in the scientific method to get to the bottom of what is actually going on. So in this case it's important to understand what will or won't be accepted and the first thing that gets thrown right out is "insider testimony" and the second is "Wild speculation with little evidence to suggest relation." In the case of many paranormal phenomena the "Researcher" often throws their own unstated series of assumptions into the conclusions they predict. Ancient Alien theory is the best example of this, it sounds quite possible on its face except that you realize that while there is certainly evidence that many of our world wonders were built by unknown and exotic means...there is little evidence beyond ancient stories which might suggest alien involvement. The reason the alien involvement is regularly discounted though is because it's hard to understand when a given culture may have meant something literally or metaphorically when they tend to be (by scientific standards) highly superstitious. This misunderstanding means that we default to what seems to be the more reasonable assumption that these were stories and meant metaphorically rather than literally. Ancient Alien theorists do spin a good argument but what they lack is direct evidence of causation or presence of ETs.

So it would be folly to argue such things with such people as ultimately you'd be arguing from a postulate they would never be willing to accept. However what you can do is show where the boundaries of science exist and allow them to decide what they're willing to accept after that.

[Fred Steeves]

Hi Niki, just me personally, I have pretty much stopped trying to prove anything to anybody. And something else, I think I have discoverd that following the conspiracy trail, too deeply anyway, is a trap. So here's what I'm doing these days. Two things. One is I do my very best to walk the walk, whether I think anyone's watching or not. The other is that when I do talk, I'm less concerned with do I appear stupid or not. I speak my truth to people as a natural course in conversation, to varying degrees anyway, and simply let the chips fall where they may. I just don't really give a sh!t any more.

I'm thinking that people generally have a sense of if someone they see somewhat often is for real or not. If over the course of time I'm consistantly observed as being intelligent, caring, and genuine, then maybe I won't so often just be summarily dismissed when something "not normal", or "controversial" comes out of my mouth.

My two cents. I wish you well, as it's not so easy to figure out is it?

Cheers,
Fred

[TargeT]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
Hi Niki, just me personally, I have pretty much stopped trying to prove anything to anybody. And something else, I think I have discoverd that following the conspiracy trail, too deeply anyway, is a trap. So here's what I'm doing these days. Two things. One is I do my very best to walk the walk, whether I think anyone's watching or not. The other is that when I do talk, I'm less concerned with do I appear stupid or not. I speak my truth to people as a natural course in conversation, to varying degrees anyway, and simply let the chips fall where they may. I just don't really give a sh!t any more.

I'm thinking that people generally have a sense of if someone they see somewhat often is for real or not. If over the course of time I'm consistantly observed as being intelligent, caring, and genuine, then maybe I won't so often just be summarily dismissed when something "not normal", or "controversial" comes out of my mouth.

My two cents. I wish you well, as it's not so easy to figure out is it?

Cheers,
Fred

I think a fundamental problem (and I'll make some assumptions here that shouldn't be too far off base) is the framing that the English language uses, everything is negotiation, everything is persuasion, and yet our physiological make up is built around dogged stubbornness when it comes to hanging on to traditions, idea's and beliefs that are strongly held (some times not even that strongly... ) we can physically react like we are being threatened when it's just a concept that runs counter to what we think is true, it's a very interesting phenomenon that is amazingly good at keeping things "status quo".

See the first 10 min of this video for a psychological & biochemical explanation of strongly held belief defense:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o

so there' s a lot of things working in the background AGAINST the spread of new ideas, if you are trying to do that and becoming frustrated, perhaps understanding this will help a bit.

I also follow in Fred's foot steps, I'm not so concerned about "leading people to truth" anymore, ("you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink" holds true here as much as elsewhere) I will poke and prod, see if someone is open to new ideas; this is a long proccess (years for me) so rushing it will do no good.

[Mark]

Yes, indeed, my PA bredren make good points. It is difficult to get past the stubborness of pre-supposed knowledge. TargeT's long-term strategy makes a lot of sense. People have to be exposed bit by bit, it is true. Once they find something out, then they have to want to know more. Their curiosity has to be awakened. At that point, if they ask questions, other, more in-depth information can be shared.

Jumping into the pool at the deep end if you don't know how to swim yet can leave you sputtering and near-drowned. Better to take your time, little by little, bits of information by bits.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
Hi Niki, just me personally, I have pretty much stopped trying to prove anything to anybody. And something else, I think I have discoverd that following the conspiracy trail, too deeply anyway, is a trap. So here's what I'm doing these days. Two things. One is I do my very best to walk the walk, whether I think anyone's watching or not. The other is that when I do talk, I'm less concerned with do I appear stupid or not. I speak my truth to people as a natural course in conversation, to varying degrees anyway, and simply let the chips fall where they may. I just don't really give a sh!t any more.

I'm thinking that people generally have a sense of if someone they see somewhat often is for real or not. If over the course of time I'm consistantly observed as being intelligent, caring, and genuine, then maybe I won't so often just be summarily dismissed when something "not normal", or "controversial" comes out of my mouth.

My two cents. I wish you well, as it's not so easy to figure out is it?

Cheers,
Fred

I agree and have adopted the same attitude, the only thing that did change and i can do for myself is get some extra canned groceries each week, because no matter what happens, that will be usefull, so is having a small good waterfilter, no matter what may come of all this, you have to eat and drink, make sure you have some. No panicshopping, just make sure you can take proper care of yourself and your loved ones through any scenario. Something to cook on is also very usefull as is a emergency radio. 4 small things that can and will make your life better.

Thats it.

In the mean time, keep reading and stay on top of it, when you had enough, tune out, when you want some more, tune in again.

You are in charge of youre life as far as these little things go and they can make all the difference in the world, just dont pay with your creditcard for them, cash only, no traces.

[Cartomancer]

Check my thread "origins of the new age" if you have time. Its all about manipulation and using people and it goes all the way back as far as you can imagine. Look what "new age" philosophy did for the Nazi's. The Theosophical Society has been associated with nothing but political intrigue and manipulation. Its all about getting someone to believe your b.s. so you can take advantage of them. There are groups of people out there jockeying to be the progenitors of the next new religion for the New Age and some of them will stop at nothing to achieve this goal.

Rahkt is right. Do not follow others when seeking information. Do research yourself and stay objective. You find just as many bizarre things out there.

[BlueGem]

There really is no need to go too deeply into the world of conspiracy. It's honestly not going to adversely effect your life if you are ignorant of the very latest updates from Wilcock or Fulford etc..

Just live your life to the best of your ability and never forget that being happy is a basic right, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I can't really stress that enough. There's no need to get bogged down by stories of reptoids or evil aliens if you don't really feel the need... because that will just create more fear in your life.

Whatever you believe (or want to believe) is fine. Just remember to learn from what happens in your life!

Be happy!

[music]

Hi Niki, for proof that all is not as it seems, why not start with 9/11. This link will take you to the facebook page of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Links there to proof that the official version of 9/11 is impossible because it contravenes the laws of physics are just a start. 9/11 really is the great doorway into the truth. Once we realise that they are capable of doing that, we realise that they are capable of anything, and that there is a very sinister agenda going on.

There is no difference between truly good/kind people and people who call themselves "lightworkers" except for a label. Many in both camps though are only half realised beings because they deny the sublimated aspects of their own personalities that they have called "darkness".

Be aware that much information that is put forward on alternative sites is intentional disinformation to throw us off the scent (or to be so bizarre as to compromise the believability of the truth), or distraction to waste our time and energy. Look at the multiple "Drake" threads here for example. How much time and energy has been wasted there? All in all, a good days work for whatever agent came up with the whole "Drake" idea. Hope they got a promotion, or at the very least, a new calico suit.

[kcbc2010]

I loved Rahkyt's lists and think they are really useful.

Just another thing, you never know what's going to strike someone's curiosity and all you can do is live the best way you know how.

For me, one of things why I can't dismiss a lot of this is that it's not just one or two people saying this stuff. There are literally hundreds of people and a lot of them are well-educated. Better educated on a lot of topics then I'll ever be. A PhD bought over the internet is not the same as one earned at a major university and as much as TBTP try to discredit them personally, they can't discredit their credentials and experience.

[21CC]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Yes, indeed, my PA bredren make good points. It is difficult to get past the stubborness of pre-supposed knowledge. TargeT's long-term strategy makes a lot of sense. People have to be exposed bit by bit, it is true. Once they find something out, then they have to want to know more. Their curiosity has to be awakened. At that point, if they ask questions, other, more in-depth information can be shared.

Jumping into the pool at the deep end if you don't know how to swim yet can leave you sputtering and near-drowned. Better to take your time, little by little, bits of information by bits.

Sometimes the longest way in is the shortest way out.

[alxz]

Posted by niki (here)
this would probably be my final post regarding similar topics (especially when I still live and surrounded among 99% skeptic, "realistic 3D-world" type of people everyday!) :

these whole 2012, Drake, Wilcock, Fullford, Mass Arrests, Ascension, E.T, GFL help, Illuminati/NWO, etc etc.....what if all those 'realistic/skeptical/worldly' people proven to be true: that ALL of these are just 'new-age mumbo-jumbo/BS', wishful-thinking/cleverly made-up human's fantasy or escapism from 'harsh reality' ?...

also, some further important questions in my mind:

1) what is seriously the 'differences' between simply GOOD/KIND people, and "Lightworkers", "Awakened" people (like in this PA forum) ??...
so, are you all saying that being 'worldly' GOOD/KIND is still *not enough* ??..
that the MAIN *Purpose* of this earthly Life is still to -no matter what- realize all the 'conspiracy' and all these supposedly 'secret/hidden knowledge' ??...
so, what will happen to those GOOD/KIND '3D-worldly' people (if they simply don't and probably never going to know about all of these 'crazy, other-worldly' stuff/things that we're mostly talking here in this wonderful PA forum) ??...

2) so, let's say all those Drake, Fullford, Wilcock predictions and "Mass Arrests" (by E.T, "Higher Beings", etc etc!) thing is going to really happen! , how can you all really be sure 100% that then the whole world/humanity/society would definitely change 100% for better ???... because honestly (and realistically/critically/skeptically), I don't think it's going to be THAT simple/easy!...
I think in the end, what needs to happen is NOT just a mere "Mass Arrests" or "E.T helps",...because seriously and honestly, I can still see the level of corruptions, greed, Ego, evil, bad things happening in every facet of humanity, even down to my own neighbors, friends, and family!!
so in my opinion, if the world is reallyyyy want to change, then it's not simply about E.T helps, mass arrests of the 'cabals, TPTB' etc etc,....but it's the WHOLE HUMANITY (all people) needs to TOGETHER raise their consciousness and CHANGE altogether!
Now, the most important question then: is it even possible??..... considering how even among us "lightworkers", starseeds, etc here, still have our own EGO, selfishness, and we even still can't agree with each other/often quarrel/want to WIN by ourselves! etc etc!?...

3) so, back to the original OP question: in order for all of these to *NOT* be called/viewed as only merely a 'new-age mumbo jumbo', wishful-thinking/fantasy/escapism talks,... is there really any SOLID UNDENIABLE PROOF (or even solid, hard logical and convincing arguments!) so that I can show to my 99% skeptic/pragmatist/materialist/'worldly' people in my family, friends, and surrounding??...
because I really want these all to be REAL (believe me!..) ,...but,..sometimes honestly I'm soo afraid that I have gone too FAR into all these 'red-pill swallowing' and, as some of those 'worldly/skeptical' people already said/told me: "gone far into a DELUSION" !!...
how can I really/seriously PROVE to them the otherwise??... that what ALL of you here in PA forum said (and believe) to be really REAL, and not just some 'cleverly' made-up man-made BS ??...

thank you~

(PS: and sorry if this post might come as a very blatant one, I really don't mean ANY offense, but just as any other real "Truth-seeker", I'm just being very hard/bold honest, as I can, also for the good of all of us here! viewed from other perspective!)

thank you
~warm regards from Indonesia~

I really would like you all to listen to this, for the whole 2 hours If u havent heard it before. but its so relaxing listening to.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FxVNbZbQ__0

[ghostrider]

simply , if change how we treat and care for each other, look out for your fellow man, help where you can, give when you see a need, and pray your butt off, try and be the best human soul you can every day, every moment, and consider the needs of the many over self, We won't need any ET/government/messiah/ to do anything but stay out of our way, and the world will change.....I see a world with no more hunger, homeless, war, disease, pain, ego, and vanity GONE ... if you can dream it , it can happen. every great idea, every great invention, always starts as a dream . Boy does the world need to change.

[eileenrose]

I agree Niki, such things are fantasy.....ie. not relevant in a mundane job type existence....where most individuals in western culture live, work, play and die.

They live in tight little compartments called 'lives' and pretend the rest of us our insane....ie. insane meaning doesn't fit in with their ideas of what a culture should look like.

Luckily I pay no mind. And yes, there are plenty of made up ideas out there. But not as many of them as you are mentioning might exist.

I've been investigating (because I rather know what is real verses fictional) ghost's lately (this week I suppose). Are they real? Who in fact are they? Are they us, in another form? Do we all end up ghost? What is a ghost anyway? How does that compare to being a spirit or just a soul? See...we really don't actually know the truth.
What does life as a ghost consist of?

Lots of questions, few if any answers. But I am willing to look within and see if answers exist. It is relevant, to my position. My self worth as a human being to know what exists actually and not make stuff up for effect. Why do you suppose that is true (for me anyway)? Because truths allows freedom from erroneous ideas is all. And free-dom is worth a lot.

It is a 'hot' commodity, I suppose. To know what exist (and what, in fact, does not....like do demon's exist? You would be surprised/shocked if you had access to the information I have on that topic....ps: not for the faint of heart).
But I am willing to find out. Are you?

[Unified Serenity]

It's easy to get swallowed up, and each person has their own appetite for knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge. I've been a seeker literally all my life. I have never felt "home" anywhere or part of any group really. I'm nearly always for the underdog, and it's just my way. Being a thinker requires one to consciously recognize when it's time to center their heart. They are right you know. You could be blissfully ignorant of everything, and as long as your heart is centered on loving one another, it will all work out. So, when you feel you may be overdosing on red pills, it's quite alright to stop.

I try to do various things throughout the day that keep me grounded. I am a wiz at multi-tasking, but sometimes, one just needs to rest, go for a swim, a walk, do a hobby. Life is meant to be lived and worry helps no one. Some do not want to see the tornado coming and would rather just be hit by it. I am the opposite. I want to know exactly what is coming and give warning to those who will listen. Some will and some won't, but in the end, I trust we are all, each one of us exactly where we are supposed to be. Niki, always remember you are loved, precious, and never, I mean never lose hope or that light within you.

[Rocky_Shorz]

instead of your friends being shocked by what you are sharing, turn it around so that you are shocked they've never heard...

when they ask to know more just shrug and say, I don't think you're ready...

you don't believe sun flares are causing quakes, how am I going to go into even deeper subjects...

all the awakening is...

is knowledge.

since you have the knowledge, you can make decisions on what you want to share with those around you, if anything...

whether they know or not doesn't change anything.

when someone is ready, they will ask...

[jackovesk]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
It's easy to get swallowed up, and each person has their own appetite for knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge. I've been a seeker literally all my life. I have never felt "home" anywhere or part of any group really. I'm nearly always for the underdog, and it's just my way. Being a thinker requires one to consciously recognize when it's time to center their heart. They are right you know. You could be blissfully ignorant of everything, and as long as your heart is centered on loving one another, it will all work out. So, when you feel you may be overdosing on red pills, it's quite alright to stop.

I try to do various things throughout the day that keep me grounded. I am a wiz at multi-tasking, but sometimes, one just needs to rest, go for a swim, a walk, do a hobby. Life is meant to be lived and worry helps no one. Some do not want to see the tornado coming and would rather just be hit by it. I am the opposite. I want to know exactly what is coming and give warning to those who will listen. Some will and some won't, but in the end, I trust we are all, each one of us exactly where we are supposed to be. Niki, always remember you are loved, precious, and never, I mean never lose hope or that light within you.

Well Done US,

I think you have summed up the entire 'New Age Mumbo-Jumbo' problem in 1 sentence...

Some do not want to see the tornado coming and would rather just be hit by it.

Most have absolutely 'No Idea' just how 'True' that statement actually is...