The Bible

[Beren]

Posted by trenairio (here)
I used to be a devout Catholic, even an altar server. But then I decided it wasn't for me.

There is a profound difference being a devoted Catholic or any other church on Earth member -from being Christian.
Being Christian is not belonging to religion...

Your decision that it`s not for you has probably been the best thing to happen to you regarding finding God...
Just be strong and develop the relationship with God and Christ,allow holy spirit to change you on better and grow in love and understanding.

Against Love there is no law.

Test every spirit.

[observer]

Posted by kreagle (here)
[....snip]
observer, my "unbelieving friend",

I won't spend a great deal of time, here, with my response,......for it is painfully clear to me that you've pretty much "made up your mind" and convinced yourself that there is NO GOD.
[....snip]

Nor, kreagle, will I spend a great deal of time. Presumption is the father of delusion.

Simply because I have presented evidence showing Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament is not the "One True God" of Yeshua ben Joseph, you presume that I have no faith in God. It would be more accurate to state, I have no faith in your god.

I believe in the God of Unconditional Love as ministered to by Yeshua and the Nazarene Essenes and later understood by the Cathar as Amor.

The Cathar also believed your god of the Old Testament, Yahweh, was what they referred to as Rex Mundi, The King of the World.

You see kreagle, I've studied far beyond the limits of your Roman sponsored Bible. That's something Fundamentalist Christians will not do. "Eating from the Tree of Knowledge" is explicitly prohibited by the dogma of the Roman sponsored Bible, and expressly forbidden by Rex Mundi.

The early Christians were annihilated from the planet for possessing a knowledge taught by Yeshua ben Joseph and his Nazarene Essene followers. As a self proclaimed believer in the Word of Jesus, you should do yourself a favor and seek-out the knowledge the individual behind the Jesus Story actually taught.

I've studied the branches of true Christianity that followed the words of Yeshua ben Joseph. Those are the documents that were excluded from the Roman Bible.

As I've stated, the God of the Old Testament is ol'Rex Mundi himself. Your Un-holy bible is the true heresy.

The God I believe in is the God of Unconditional Love who makes no such promise of an eternal lake of fire....

[gripreaper]

Posted by kreagle (here)
When you proclaim that we are all being deceived by this,......"false dogma, the Bible",......then you are, in reality, denying the very existence of God. To deny one,....."His Word",.....is to deny the other,......"HIM",.......for the "TWO are inseparable".

..kreagle

This absolutely astounds me. The Archonic, murderous, controlling, earthly demigod's of the bible are somehow the unconditional loving creator god of the cosmos? And this god is inseparable from the Archon's playbook of terror the bible?



I'm sorry. I don't know why I come to this thread at all...

[greybeard]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)
[....snip]
observer, my "unbelieving friend",

I won't spend a great deal of time, here, with my response,......for it is painfully clear to me that you've pretty much "made up your mind" and convinced yourself that there is NO GOD.
[....snip]

Nor, kreagle, will I spend a great deal of time. Presumption is the father of delusion.

Simply because I have presented evidence showing Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament is not the "One True God" of Yeshua ben Joseph, you presume that I have no faith in God. It would be more accurate to state, I have no faith in your god.

I believe in the God of Unconditional Love as ministered to by Yeshua and the Nazarene Essenes and later understood by the Cathar as Amor.

The Cathar also believed your god of the Old Testament, Yahweh, was what they referred to as Rex Mundi, The King of the World.

You see kreagle, I've studied far beyond the limits of your Roman sponsored Bible. That's something Fundamentalist Christians will not do. "Eating from the Tree of Knowledge" is explicitly prohibited by the dogma of the Roman sponsored Bible, and expressly forbidden by Rex Mundi.

The early Christians were annihilated from the planet for possessing a knowledge taught by Yeshua ben Joseph and his Nazarene Essene followers. As a self proclaimed believer in the Word of Jesus, you should do yourself a favor and seek-out the knowledge the individual behind the Jesus Story actually taught.

I've studied the branches of true Christianity that followed the words of Yeshua ben Joseph. Those are the documents that were excluded from the Roman Bible.

As I've stated, the God of the Old Testament is ol'Rex Mundi himself. Your Un-holy bible is the true heresy.

The God I believe in is the God of Unconditional Love who makes no such promise of an eternal lake of fire....

Hi Observer
I find this post of yours to be spot on, concise and to the point.

I suspect that most fundamentalists did not come to their conclusions on their own but as part of a Bible study group where they were guided to their conclusions--- subtly brain washed.
Then being part of a group that claims to know the truth it is very hard not to dismiss any evidence that you believe a fallacy.
Its typical ego--- We are superior we are Gods chosen, we are the elect etc---powerful stuff but very divisive.

The little I know I found out for myself through many books and teachers--- always careful to cross check and to look for a core message that transcended time and the various teachers.

My researched, tried and tested belief is that God is "Unconditional Love "

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

Most religions preach love, and yet, their purpose is to confuse and misinform people for two reasons: money and the power of manipulating people. Their tool is frequently fear, which they induce to get control. For example, the Catholic Church removed reincarnation from the Bible and included Satan, so they could murder and torture people in the name of God and love, apparently 'fighting' Satan. Most wars are a direct consequence of religious 'brainwashing'.

All religions, cults, sects etc. are 'truly deceiving'. They have been created after great men (Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc.) died, by people with only 2 things in mind: 'money and power'. Religions are a 'true curse' on Earth, because they are the source of spiritual misinformation. They constipate people with fear, propaganda and rituals to the point that people stop thinking and follow the flock.

When you seek true love you do not go to a prostitute. When you truly seek God, you do not go to an institution that makes business by claiming to represent God. Do you think that God needs a proxy?
The most beautiful temple of man is within and has always been. To reach it you should meditate, and then concentrate (pray), which is different, although the two are usually confused by teachers. We should grow up, drop ridiculous rituals and stop following the flock, lead by those who take advantage of us.

The best physicists on Earth agree that everything material is just vibration, and it is actually temporary. The real stuff is our consciousness. People need a lot of effort to comprehend the Reality of the Universe. The evidence is overwhelming. We have eyes - but do we see?
There is no problem with duality: we are really eternal light beings undergoing lessons in physical bodies. The sole purpose of our physical existence is spiritual development. Anything that happens around us is a part of the lesson.

Our learning tool is our free will. We should use it to make a continuous series of choices in our life and watch their consequences. The aim is to understand the effects of our choices. If we mess up the lesson (don't learn) then we have to repeat the lesson in the next lifetime. If we are absolutely stubborn and do not want to learn, we eventually get destroyed and re-cycled as everything in nature.

"The Kingdom of God is within you" as it says in the Bible, which once upon a time contained lots of other good information. Unfortunately, many essential things were removed by priests who feared that people might become enlightened, fully independent and impossible to brainwash and control. Just imagine what would happen if people discovered that God doesn't need a proxy...

Read more here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ty-vs-Religion

[heyokah]

Posted by kreagle (here)

observer, my "unbelieving friend",

I won't spend a great deal of time, here, with my response,......for it is painfully clear to me that you've pretty much "made up your mind" and convinced yourself that there is NO GOD. Before you charge me with,....."putting words in your mouth",......you need to take a look, again, at your overall statements. When you proclaim that we are all being deceived by this,......"false dogma, the Bible",......then you are, in reality, denying the very existence of God. To deny one,....."His Word",.....is to deny the other,......"HIM",.......for the "TWO are inseparable".

I was not speaking of "science", only,.....in reference to its "changing flux". I've made that clear in my post. "All" facts,......ultimately "crowned so by man",......are subject to being "periodically updated" as deemed necessary. I fully understand that there a "few" classifications of "facts" that have stood firm for a great deal of time. However,.....as soon as "we" are foolishly inclined to "set them in granite",.....("they" have reached the infallible state in "our" minds),....suddenly,....."new data" appears on the horizon,.....and we are, once again, required to "alter our thinking" and update our files. We,.....are human,.....after all!

"If" you are feeling any "potential heat" from an "imaginary burning at the stake",.....then you might want to seek out the "source" of where this heat is "coming from"! I have never belonged to,.... or a member of,.... the "church" who has such a documented history of such atrocities against mankind,....so it's not me. It certainly sounds more plausible that the "heat" you may be currently feeling is in "direct correlation" to your stance,.....that being the elimination of God and His Word. I "prayerfully" hope that you will "wake up" soon and take advantage of the "mercy of God",.....NOW,.....before the "heat" becomes a reality,.....LATER!

The "just" shall live by "faith".


As "always",......Love and Peace,.........kreagle


Edit: (point for consideration)

observer,

Unfortunately,....we all have "foxhole" moments in life, where things really go awry in our personal lives. That's just life,.....and it's during "those times" that we really,.....desperately need,.....deep down help that can be totally relied upon. I have supplied a link from a "previous post", here on Avalon,.....dealing with this very same subject. I prayerfully request that you click on it,.....read it,.....and simply to consider it.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...618#post470618


I am "not" your enemy, my friend!


I am your "servant",...........kreagle

Dear Mr. Kreagle,

I have to admit, your arrogance is astonishing.....


I'm a woman without religion who believes in a God, out there and within ....

A God of Unconditional Love.

****

As I'm not a native speaker, nor a good writer I'll reply to you, for once and for all, with a blog posted by Austin Cline, called:








Have you ever seen Christian bumper stickers that says something like "not perfect, just saved"? I suppose the owner imagines that this is an expression of humility for admitting that one isn't perfect, but the attempted humility fails because of the smug expression of superiority: "even if I'm not perfect, I'm still going to spend eternity in paradise while the rest of you losers will suffer an eternity of torment. So there!" Yet, it's atheists who are accused of being arrogant.

Some religious theists like to complain that atheists are increasingly arrogant towards religion and theism, but there is little conscious recognition of how arrogant religious theists themselves can be. This arrogance seems to stem from the belief that one is not only in possession of the Truth, but of a divinely provided Truth — these religious theists know the Truth and are convinced that part of their job is to help poor, deluded atheists find God's love for them.

Granted, everyone can be like this when they think they are right — even atheists — but there is a difference between simply thinking that you're right while others are mistaken and thinking that you possess an unmistakable, divinely provided truth such that others are willfully disobedient, in denial, or in league with Satan. Even the most arrogant possessor of a mundane truth about the natural world pales in comparison to a self-righteous religious believer convinced that they not only know the Will of God, but that everyone else would as well if they were only equally good and righteous.

In the process of such thinking, religious theists develop a tendency to make all sorts of arrogant assumptions about atheists, what atheists think, why they are atheists, and how best to approach atheists. Instead of asking questions and considering that they have good reasons for disbelieving in gods, atheists are treated as objects for evangelization whose own perspectives are unworthy of being heard.

Some believers don't seem to give any thought to the concerns of others:; their way is The Only Way, and even people who do not accept it are necessarily ruled by it, whether they like it or not. If they don't think that they are, then it is simply because they fail to acknowledge the existence or the sovereignty of the One True God. It's amazing that religious theists can accuse atheists of being "arrogant" even while having tolerated far more extreme arrogance in their own ranks for decades — if not millennia.

http://atheism.about.com/od/liberati...Arrogance-.htm

****

To me, a man/woman without religion is like a fish without bicycle ....

[kreagle]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)
[....snip]
observer, my "unbelieving friend",

I won't spend a great deal of time, here, with my response,......for it is painfully clear to me that you've pretty much "made up your mind" and convinced yourself that there is NO GOD.
[....snip]

Nor, kreagle, will I spend a great deal of time. Presumption is the father of delusion.

Simply because I have presented evidence showing Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament is not the "One True God" of Yeshua ben Joseph, you presume that I have no faith in God. It would be more accurate to state, I have no faith in your god.

I believe in the God of Unconditional Love as ministered to by Yeshua and the Nazarene Essenes and later understood by the Cathar as Amor.

The Cathar also believed your god of the Old Testament, Yahweh, was what they referred to as Rex Mundi, The King of the World.

You see kreagle, I've studied far beyond the limits of your Roman sponsored Bible. That's something Fundamentalist Christians will not do. "Eating from the Tree of Knowledge" is explicitly prohibited by the dogma of the Roman sponsored Bible, and expressly forbidden by Rex Mundi.

The early Christians were annihilated from the planet for possessing a knowledge taught by Yeshua ben Joseph and his Nazarene Essene followers. As a self proclaimed believer in the Word of Jesus, you should do yourself a favor and seek-out the knowledge the individual behind the Jesus Story actually taught.

I've studied the branches of true Christianity that followed the words of Yeshua ben Joseph. Those are the documents that were excluded from the Roman Bible.

As I've stated, the God of the Old Testament is ol'Rex Mundi himself. Your Un-holy bible is the true heresy.

The God I believe in is the God of Unconditional Love who makes no such promise of an eternal lake of fire....

observer,

I think it's safe to say that you are alluding to the "fact" that....."your god",......is not the same as......"my God",.......to which I concur completely.

"My God",....whose name is Jesus,......went to the cross,....died for "our" sins,.....resurrected in 3 days,.....and, consequently, dwells "in me" as the Comforter.

"Your god",...certainly didn't do that for you!,.....nor anyone else!


You state, that, you are a "believer, of sorts", in that you proclaim,......."I believe in the God of Unconditional Love". I believe you refer to him as,......"Amor".

To this I ask,..(as Paul "equally asked" in Acts 19:1-7),....."have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?"

Does your,....."unconditional loving god....Amor",......make that available to you?

Oh, I'm sure there is a "spirit" that guides you, my friend,......but in what "direction"?

observer,....you asked me earlier in post #1438,......"Other than your faith in this dogma, what proof do you offer that these words are the word of God...."

I've already alluded to this "proof" earlier,.....when I stated.......

"Observers",.........."observe"

"Believers",..........."experience"

My "experience", in receiving the Holy Ghost,......was "all the proof I needed"!

Malachi 3:10,....God informs us that it's acceptable to,...."prove Me".....as in "put Me to the test". If we will put our "faith" in Him,....He will "prove Himself" to you within "no question of doubt"!! Be not deceived, though,....for it will necessitate the deployment of "your faith",......which we "all have",...."as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith" (Romans 12:3)

When "we" do our part and......show up, by faith,....."He" will do His part and.......show up, in His Spirit. He will not be a "no show"!!


In an effort to be......."perfectly clear".......let me say "this" about the infilling of the Holy Ghost,.......

I am, in no way,.....talking about a "mind over matter" situation here when I refer to being filled with God's Spirit,....the Holy Ghost. I say "this" because that's how a lot of people see, or view, this Spiritual phenomena. I'm sad to say that many "seekers", (present and past), satisfy themselves with a "mind over matter" version of this. In reality,... they can receive the "genuine experience" of being filled with the Holy Ghost,.....by simply surrendering totally to God,....and then applying their "faith" in His Word.

A "genuine experience" of being filled with the Holy Ghost involves "speaking in other tongues",.....as the Spirit gives the utterance,....."every time"!

A full discourse is given in James 3:1-11,....about the deadly "power of the tongue",..and it's destructive "nature". No one, amongst us, can make the claim that their "tongue", (or mouth), hasn't gotten them in more trouble than they could possibly get out of! This is why,....in the wisdom of God,....we must "surrender our tongue" to Him. "Unconditional surrender",.....(and that involves the "tongue", too!),....are the "terms of true Biblical repentance". The "tongue" will be the last thing you will "turn over to Him",.......that's "if" you are "ALL IN",....or "sold out" to God!!


I, kreagle,....."unconditionally surrendered" to God,...on Jan. 30, 1981,....(at the age of 26 years old),.......and was baptized in the name of our God,...JESUS,...for the remission of my sins.(see post#1381)
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...670#post516670

Twenty-three days later,....on Feb. 22, 1981,.....I received the Holy Ghost,....with the evidence of speaking in "other tongues",.....( another language I never had previously known or learned),....(whether it was Spanish,...German,....French,....I don't know).

I, now,....had finally learned and "experienced" what it was like to be "genuinely filled" with God's Spirit,....the Holy Ghost. I was, now,...truly "born again"......of the water and the Spirit! Jesus even spoke about this "event",....that I was now experiencing,.....from a prophetic standpoint.

John 7:37-39
King James Version (KJV)

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


(in conclusion)

observer,

When I, kreagle,.....showed up by "faith",.....and "unconditionally surrendered" to our God......

Then our God, whose name is Jesus,.......showed up in "His Spirit",.....and "unconditionally became my God"!!

He,......lovingly and anxiously,.....awaits for the "next",......"unconditional surrender"

I was "instructed" to ,......"prove Me",.....and I "did"!,....and He's proven to be everything and more than I could ever hope for!

Herein lies my "proof" that you've asked me to supply!


Love and Peace,....your servant,.........kreagle

[kreagle]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)

observer, my "unbelieving friend",

I won't spend a great deal of time, here, with my response,......for it is painfully clear to me that you've pretty much "made up your mind" and convinced yourself that there is NO GOD. Before you charge me with,....."putting words in your mouth",......you need to take a look, again, at your overall statements. When you proclaim that we are all being deceived by this,......"false dogma, the Bible",......then you are, in reality, denying the very existence of God. To deny one,....."His Word",.....is to deny the other,......"HIM",.......for the "TWO are inseparable".

I was not speaking of "science", only,.....in reference to its "changing flux". I've made that clear in my post. "All" facts,......ultimately "crowned so by man",......are subject to being "periodically updated" as deemed necessary. I fully understand that there a "few" classifications of "facts" that have stood firm for a great deal of time. However,.....as soon as "we" are foolishly inclined to "set them in granite",.....("they" have reached the infallible state in "our" minds),....suddenly,....."new data" appears on the horizon,.....and we are, once again, required to "alter our thinking" and update our files. We,.....are human,.....after all!

"If" you are feeling any "potential heat" from an "imaginary burning at the stake",.....then you might want to seek out the "source" of where this heat is "coming from"! I have never belonged to,.... or a member of,.... the "church" who has such a documented history of such atrocities against mankind,....so it's not me. It certainly sounds more plausible that the "heat" you may be currently feeling is in "direct correlation" to your stance,.....that being the elimination of God and His Word. I "prayerfully" hope that you will "wake up" soon and take advantage of the "mercy of God",.....NOW,.....before the "heat" becomes a reality,.....LATER!

The "just" shall live by "faith".


As "always",......Love and Peace,.........kreagle


Edit: (point for consideration)

observer,

Unfortunately,....we all have "foxhole" moments in life, where things really go awry in our personal lives. That's just life,.....and it's during "those times" that we really,.....desperately need,.....deep down help that can be totally relied upon. I have supplied a link from a "previous post", here on Avalon,.....dealing with this very same subject. I prayerfully request that you click on it,.....read it,.....and simply to consider it.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...618#post470618


I am "not" your enemy, my friend!


I am your "servant",...........kreagle

Dear Mr. Kreagle,

I have to admit, your arrogance is astonishing.....


I'm a woman without religion who believes in a God, out there and within ....

A God of Unconditional Love.

****

As I'm not a native speaker, nor a good writer I'll reply to you, for once and for all, with a blog posted by Austin Cline, called:








Have you ever seen Christian bumper stickers that says something like "not perfect, just saved"? I suppose the owner imagines that this is an expression of humility for admitting that one isn't perfect, but the attempted humility fails because of the smug expression of superiority: "even if I'm not perfect, I'm still going to spend eternity in paradise while the rest of you losers will suffer an eternity of torment. So there!" Yet, it's atheists who are accused of being arrogant.

Some religious theists like to complain that atheists are increasingly arrogant towards religion and theism, but there is little conscious recognition of how arrogant religious theists themselves can be. This arrogance seems to stem from the belief that one is not only in possession of the Truth, but of a divinely provided Truth — these religious theists know the Truth and are convinced that part of their job is to help poor, deluded atheists find God's love for them.

Granted, everyone can be like this when they think they are right — even atheists — but there is a difference between simply thinking that you're right while others are mistaken and thinking that you possess an unmistakable, divinely provided truth such that others are willfully disobedient, in denial, or in league with Satan. Even the most arrogant possessor of a mundane truth about the natural world pales in comparison to a self-righteous religious believer convinced that they not only know the Will of God, but that everyone else would as well if they were only equally good and righteous.

In the process of such thinking, religious theists develop a tendency to make all sorts of arrogant assumptions about atheists, what atheists think, why they are atheists, and how best to approach atheists. Instead of asking questions and considering that they have good reasons for disbelieving in gods, atheists are treated as objects for evangelization whose own perspectives are unworthy of being heard.

Some believers don't seem to give any thought to the concerns of others:; their way is The Only Way, and even people who do not accept it are necessarily ruled by it, whether they like it or not. If they don't think that they are, then it is simply because they fail to acknowledge the existence or the sovereignty of the One True God. It's amazing that religious theists can accuse atheists of being "arrogant" even while having tolerated far more extreme arrogance in their own ranks for decades — if not millennia.

http://atheism.about.com/od/liberati...Arrogance-.htm

****

To me, a man/woman without religion is like a fish without bicycle ....

My dear heyokah,

You did not completely specify in "your words" that you were an atheist,.....but your directive to me to "view your blog by Austin Cline,.....an avowed atheist",.....and the consequent "defense of atheism",....leaves me no choice but to believe that you are, indeed, an atheist,....too.

Prior to our conversation, here,.....which is a "first" between you and I,......you would be able to say,....with authority,....that there "is no such thing as a....."kreagle"! In your mind, you could justify that stance,....because you've,....never heard of me,....never seen me,.....so consequently I don't, or must not, exist! Of course, that "theory" would completely evaporate,....and has,....with our "meeting" here, hasn't it? You can no longer say that "kreagle" doesn't exist,.....for now you've officially met him!!

This "exact same scenario" applies to the atheist and his/her view of God,...the Lord Jesus Christ. My dear,...dear,...friend,....."you simply have not formally met, or been properly introduced, to Him,....yet. If you will simply get to the point in your life,....and activate the "faith" that God has place within you,.....you will find our Lord God, Jesus,...eagerly looking forward to "making your acquaintance"! Once you do,.....like I did,....you'll never,...ever,.....deny Him again! I promise!

I have no doubt, that the "link" I enclosed, dealing with "there are no atheists in foxholes",....has inflamed you. But dear,....the account and story I've shared there is "completely true",.......it "did" really happen,.....exactly as I reported! The "soul" knows who to call on in a desperate time of need. It will, indeed, call upon it's Maker!!

I hope things are going well with you in Holland.


With much love and peace,.....your servant,......kreagle

[greybeard]

Dear Kreagle I dont doubt your experiences.
The only point I and others are consistently making is that there is more than one way to God.
I could site examples in my life where through prayer to God the miraculous happened.
I prayed to God not to Jesus but as the two are one it does not make any difference in the end result.

Chris

[heyokah]

Posted by kreagle (here)

My dear heyokah,

You did not completely specify in "your words" that you were an atheist,.....but your directive to me to "view your blog by Austin Cline,.....an avowed atheist",.....and the consequent "defense of atheism",....leaves me no choice but to believe that you are, indeed, an atheist,....too.

Prior to our conversation, here,.....which is a "first" between you and I,......you would be able to say,....with authority,....that there "is no such thing as a....."kreagle"! In your mind, you could justify that stance,....because you've,....never heard of me,....never seen me,.....so consequently I don't, or must not, exist! Of course, that "theory" would completely evaporate,....and has,....with our "meeting" here, hasn't it? You can no longer say that "kreagle" doesn't exist,.....for now you've officially met him!!

This "exact same scenario" applies to the atheist and his/her view of God,...the Lord Jesus Christ. My dear,...dear,...friend,....."you simply have not formally met, or been properly introduced, to Him,....yet. If you will simply get to the point in your life,....and activate the "faith" that God has place within you,.....you will find our Lord God, Jesus,...eagerly looking forward to "making your acquaintance"! Once you do,.....like I did,....you'll never,...ever,.....deny Him again! I promise!

I have no doubt, that the "link" I enclosed, dealing with "there are no atheists in foxholes",....has inflamed you. But dear,....the account and story I've shared there is "completely true",.......it "did" really happen,.....exactly as I reported! The "soul" knows who to call on in a desperate time of need. It will, indeed, call upon it's Maker!!

I hope things are going well with you in Holland.


With much love and peace,.....your servant,......kreagle

Dear Mr. Kreagle,

Exactly this kind of talk will make me stay away as far as I can from any fundamentalist Christian, Muslim or Jew, or their religions.


This has nothing to do with the Unconditional Love my God has shown me when He brought me back from death and gave me my life again many years ago.

You know nothing about me, yet you arrogantly label me as an atheist (as if that would be something unworthy...... ever heard of "Love Thy Neighbour" ....?)
Yes, if there would only be YOUR angy god, I would prefer to be an atheist.

Thank God, there is a God of Undonditional Love, for us all to be found.....

So please stop preaching.

[Beren]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Dear Kreagle I dont doubt your experiences.
The only point I and others are consistently making is that there is more than one way to God.
I could site examples in my life where through prayer to God the miraculous happened.
I prayed to God not to Jesus but as the two are one it does not make any difference in the end result.

Chris

I know that you will understand this Chris but when you delve deeper or go higher you will always realize that there are only one way to God (Creator AKA Conscience of all life etc..) and the other way -away from God.
In reality all ways are ways to God since you cannot escape God for God is everywhere but for the sake of understanding soul , the only way towards God is the way of Love.

And it is rarely threaded path while the other one is broad .
Simply because when on Love path , you learn that you need to surrender everything on it, to give up all preconceived opinions and thoughts ,to basically give up life and die... and die in your old thought pattern since nothing really dies ,only transforms.

You then embrace Love as your guide towards God .

This is Christ's way.
And it rarely walked upon since majority cannot give up their ego and thought patterns of fear.

As Dr. Hawkins experienced ,he was at threshold of choice to fall into abyss of fear or let go ... He chose to let go and experienced life at fullest!
He chose to cast away Maya and embrace Love.

Christ was teaching this by saying "I am the way, follow me and I and Father are one".

Christ didn't say follow the people and their preconceived opinions,religions,groups and such. He said plain and clear- "Follow me".

This new way of being is hard to grasp for many in all epochs.
For it means that one should leave old ways and walk upon new ones, freshly built under their very feet...walking on water eh?
The perfect symbol of new ways even where the old ones couldn't go .

With new conscience one can go anywhere BUT! I repeat BUT one has to be not afraid.
One has to really create all the time this new path way of Love.

Peter started to create it but then got afraid of what he saw around him ,thus he begun to sunk.
"Ye of little faith"

Meaning you who are afraid.

In conclusion , there is only one life, one baptism ,one God ,one Lord - when you look from the high point of view.

When one soul chose to go towards its Creator, along the way this soul realizes finally those words about One this or One that.

Some call this Unity consciousness.
And they have a right to do so for we are all united in God on the highest realm of eternity.
Down here we forgot who we are and play this games of who is right and who is wrong.

Alas for decades of research of someone has took, if those persons didn't do the only required thing ,an ultimate thing - to experience the Love, to share it and to be it.
All knowledge falls down as worthless and all science and all that any particular soul in whole existence in whole Universe has done- IF they do not let themselves to experience the Love.

In the Love one can do anything they so please above all laws of physics,spirituality, material universes, dimensions and all that exist currently.
And finally here Bible quotes that "God is Love"...

We are Love too ,it's time to embrace this fact. To leave quarreling aside- it does do no good.
Heaven, Hell, Death,Life ... we are all above this if we embrace the Love.

[kreagle]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)

My dear heyokah,

You did not completely specify in "your words" that you were an atheist,.....but your directive to me to "view your blog by Austin Cline,.....an avowed atheist",.....and the consequent "defense of atheism",....leaves me no choice but to believe that you are, indeed, an atheist,....too.

Prior to our conversation, here,.....which is a "first" between you and I,......you would be able to say,....with authority,....that there "is no such thing as a....."kreagle"! In your mind, you could justify that stance,....because you've,....never heard of me,....never seen me,.....so consequently I don't, or must not, exist! Of course, that "theory" would completely evaporate,....and has,....with our "meeting" here, hasn't it? You can no longer say that "kreagle" doesn't exist,.....for now you've officially met him!!

This "exact same scenario" applies to the atheist and his/her view of God,...the Lord Jesus Christ. My dear,...dear,...friend,....."you simply have not formally met, or been properly introduced, to Him,....yet. If you will simply get to the point in your life,....and activate the "faith" that God has place within you,.....you will find our Lord God, Jesus,...eagerly looking forward to "making your acquaintance"! Once you do,.....like I did,....you'll never,...ever,.....deny Him again! I promise!

I have no doubt, that the "link" I enclosed, dealing with "there are no atheists in foxholes",....has inflamed you. But dear,....the account and story I've shared there is "completely true",.......it "did" really happen,.....exactly as I reported! The "soul" knows who to call on in a desperate time of need. It will, indeed, call upon it's Maker!!

I hope things are going well with you in Holland.


With much love and peace,.....your servant,......kreagle

Dear Mr. Kreagle,

Exactly this kind of talk will make me stay away as far as I can from any fundamentalist Christian, Muslim or Jew, or their religions.


This has nothing to do with the Unconditional Love my God has shown me when He brought me back from death and gave me my life again many years ago.

You know nothing about me, yet you arrogantly label me as an atheist (as if that would be something unworthy...... ever heard of "Love Thy Neighbour" ....?)
Yes, if there would only be YOUR angy god, I would prefer to be an atheist.

Thank God, there is a God of Undonditional Love, for us all to be found.....

So please stop preaching.

heyokah,

My dear friend,......if you wish to not be "labeled" as an "atheist",....I would certainly advise you to not use such a "heavily laden-ed" atheistic view for any such "future post" that you might submit. There are no less than "ten" specific references to "atheism" on the blog that you advised me to read,......by an "avowed atheist", to boot. I promise you that I wouldn't be the "only one" who would arrive at the "same conclusion" I came up with,....by simply reading the material you presented. Are you, indeed, saying that you do not ascribe to be an Atheist?

Have you ever heard of the saying,....."Birds of a feather,......flock together"?

Now it appears that I have misunderstood what I thought was obvious. To that I profoundly apologize,......but I do hope you fully understand where I arrived at my "deduction", or outlook.


I wish you well,.....and I am equally grateful that our God has previously saved you from a "close call" with death.

Love and Peace,......kreagle

[greybeard]

I agree with Beren.
The path narrows or various seeming paths converge into one--- and eventually there is only one way to God
The first two commandments sum it up---- Love
Surrender surrender to the Love.

Chris

[crested-duck]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)
[....snip]
observer, my "unbelieving friend",

I won't spend a great deal of time, here, with my response,......for it is painfully clear to me that you've pretty much "made up your mind" and convinced yourself that there is NO GOD.
[....snip]

Nor, kreagle, will I spend a great deal of time. Presumption is the father of delusion.

Simply because I have presented evidence showing Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament is not the "One True God" of Yeshua ben Joseph, you presume that I have no faith in God. It would be more accurate to state, I have no faith in your god.

I believe in the God of Unconditional Love as ministered to by Yeshua and the Nazarene Essenes and later understood by the Cathar as Amor.

The Cathar also believed your god of the Old Testament, Yahweh, was what they referred to as Rex Mundi, The King of the World.

You see kreagle, I've studied far beyond the limits of your Roman sponsored Bible. That's something Fundamentalist Christians will not do. "Eating from the Tree of Knowledge" is explicitly prohibited by the dogma of the Roman sponsored Bible, and expressly forbidden by Rex Mundi.

The early Christians were annihilated from the planet for possessing a knowledge taught by Yeshua ben Joseph and his Nazarene Essene followers. As a self proclaimed believer in the Word of Jesus, you should do yourself a favor and seek-out the knowledge the individual behind the Jesus Story actually taught.

I've studied the branches of true Christianity that followed the words of Yeshua ben Joseph. Those are the documents that were excluded from the Roman Bible.

As I've stated, the God of the Old Testament is ol'Rex Mundi himself. Your Un-holy bible is the true heresy.

The God I believe in is the God of Unconditional Love who makes no such promise of an eternal lake of fire....

Hi Observer
I find this post of yours to be spot on, concise and to the point.

I suspect that most fundamentalists did not come to their conclusions on their own but as part of a Bible study group where they were guided to their conclusions--- subtly brain washed.
Then being part of a group that claims to know the truth it is very hard not to dismiss any evidence that you believe a fallacy.
Its typical ego--- We are superior we are Gods chosen, we are the elect etc---powerful stuff but very divisive.

The little I know I found out for myself through many books and teachers--- always careful to cross check and to look for a core message that transcended time and the various teachers.

My researched, tried and tested belief is that God is "Unconditional Love "

Chris

Here is a novel idea to try and make everyone understand::instead of saying "god"or"love" relace the word god/love with"universal conscious awareness", and start looking at this thread without biased religious dogma. And if your serious about learning truthful facts about the real history of humans and who created them and why---go read" the journey of UCA, and the journey of Self" by frank O'Collins. He had extensive access to the vatican library full of the hidden truth that's been used by religion to keep humans unaware and enslaved to their system of control.Or you can stay stagnent and unevolveing, and remain ignorant by your own choice by believing what someone else told you was truth without researching and investigateing for yourself. The choice is for each of us to personally make, become aware or die ignorant believing lies and deciet and enjoy your personal enslavement to the system created by man, who was created by more advanced"universally consciously aware" creatures than ourselves that told their creation that they are the gods that created them, and therefore the gods personal slaves--Rob

[crested-duck]

Willful ignorance,popular opinion, and religious dogma are the only enemy and "devil in action". They are/were specifically and intentionally designed by man to be the enemy of CRITICAL THINKING & CONSCIOUS AWARENESS !!! All for the control of many by very few creative thinkers with the ability to think critically, come up with a plan of action, and just do it putting it in action, with the threat of force and death to get their way. We all instinctually knew this when we were born, but many are too brainwashed to realise exactly what is happening to them. And others know this is true ,but don't want to face criticism from the rest of the brainwashed. I call that lack of spine and lack of self respect, and willful ignorance. If this post enflames you, you better take a look inside yourself and realise why. It's really all right to admit you've been lied to and decieved by religion, it's not the end of your world, it's the beginning of CONSCIOUS AWARENESS about yourself and the universe.--Rob Exactly how religion takes control of you: From a very early age people are presented with something that the mind doesnt know about yet,
but they dont have the learned abilities to process or to reason their way out of it at that point in life
so they go along with it, even though the gut says no. Hundreds of years, and many generations of brainwashed ignoramous's later---well just look around, look around. Where exactly do you fit into this ugly picture that is the reality we are currently living in.

[heyokah]

Posted by kreagle (here)

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)

My dear heyokah,

You did not completely specify in "your words" that you were an atheist,.....but your directive to me to "view your blog by Austin Cline,.....an avowed atheist",.....and the consequent "defense of atheism",....leaves me no choice but to believe that you are, indeed, an atheist,....too.

Prior to our conversation, here,.....which is a "first" between you and I,......you would be able to say,....with authority,....that there "is no such thing as a....."kreagle"! In your mind, you could justify that stance,....because you've,....never heard of me,....never seen me,.....so consequently I don't, or must not, exist! Of course, that "theory" would completely evaporate,....and has,....with our "meeting" here, hasn't it? You can no longer say that "kreagle" doesn't exist,.....for now you've officially met him!!

This "exact same scenario" applies to the atheist and his/her view of God,...the Lord Jesus Christ. My dear,...dear,...friend,....."you simply have not formally met, or been properly introduced, to Him,....yet. If you will simply get to the point in your life,....and activate the "faith" that God has place within you,.....you will find our Lord God, Jesus,...eagerly looking forward to "making your acquaintance"! Once you do,.....like I did,....you'll never,...ever,.....deny Him again! I promise!

I have no doubt, that the "link" I enclosed, dealing with "there are no atheists in foxholes",....has inflamed you. But dear,....the account and story I've shared there is "completely true",.......it "did" really happen,.....exactly as I reported! The "soul" knows who to call on in a desperate time of need. It will, indeed, call upon it's Maker!!

I hope things are going well with you in Holland.


With much love and peace,.....your servant,......kreagle

Dear Mr. Kreagle,

Exactly this kind of talk will make me stay away as far as I can from any fundamentalist Christian, Muslim or Jew, or their religions.


This has nothing to do with the Unconditional Love my God has shown me when He brought me back from death and gave me my life again many years ago.

You know nothing about me, yet you arrogantly label me as an atheist (as if that would be something unworthy...... ever heard of "Love Thy Neighbour" ....?)
Yes, if there would only be YOUR angry god, I would prefer to be an atheist.

Thank God, there is a God of Unconditional Love, for us all to be found.....

So please stop preaching.

heyokah,

My dear friend,......if you wish to not be "labeled" as an "atheist",....I would certainly advise you to not use such a "heavily laden-ed" atheistic view for any such "future post" that you might submit. There are no less than "ten" specific references to "atheism" on the blog that you advised me to read,......by an "avowed atheist", to boot. I promise you that I wouldn't be the "only one" who would arrive at the "same conclusion" I came up with,....by simply reading the material you presented. Are you, indeed, saying that you do not ascribe to be an Atheist?

Have you ever heard of the saying,....."Birds of a feather,......flock together"?

Now it appears that I have misunderstood what I thought was obvious. To that I profoundly apologize,......but I do hope you fully understand where I arrived at my "deduction", or outlook.


I wish you well,.....and I am equally grateful that our God has previously saved you from a "close call" with death.

Love and Peace,......kreagle

Dear Mr. Kreagle,

I was raised in a happy family, without any religion and with lots of love and common sense.
Although the word God or Jesus Christ was never mentioned, I used to talk to some kind of entity (God, Jesus, Mr. Bean....?) every night from an early age.
It might have been 'someone' outside or inside myself and sometimes I even thought it was a part of myself I was talking to.

As I grew up, heard and experienced what Religions had done and were still doing to humanity, I decided to stay as far away as I could from any of them.

Of course, being a very curious person, I followed lectures on all kinds of religious traditions, philosophies and other ethical systems for living, without being "captured" by any.

I have always been at ease and very happy being me, here and now, in this universe, knowing that I had 'all and everything' within me.

If all this will make me, in your eyes, an atheist, .... ok, if that will make you feel happy.
Will I be burning in (your) hell when my path will have come to an end ?.... I don't think so, even more.... I'm sure I won't !

Love and Peace to you too Mr. Kreagle


HOWEVER......


Being a heyokah, I can't help asking you this:

"Did Jesus come here to save us or was it to teach us to save ourselves?"

"Saving or taking care of people is a high purpose but teaching people to save or take care of themselves and each other is an even higher one.
Jesus tried to teach people to think for themselves and care for each other but Christianity twisted his words around to say that we have to always rely on a single supreme ruler to take care of us and save us whenever we screw up."


. Love is the desire and ability to make someone happy and joyful every minute of every day
. Love is unconditional acceptance of someone no matter what they choose to believe or do
. Love is promising someone something good and then surprising them with something ten times better the very next day
. The god of the bible ought to try using love some time instead of just bragging about it


From :

"The horrible truth about religion"

by Andrew Werner



****

Now you will surely label me as an atheist, Mr Kreagle. So be it.

I know better.

[kreagle]

greybeard,

I suspect that most fundamentalists did not come to their conclusions on their own but as part of a Bible study group where they were guided to their conclusions--- subtly brain washed

I can name a "few" occasions,....in the Bible,.....where there were many "individuals" who were "eternally grateful" that they were not......"left alone to find out the truth, by themselves".


1) Acts 2:38-42....."3,000 souls" were "schooled" by their Teacher, Peter.....and when "class was adjourned",.....they were "baptized in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost,.......and "likewise were added to the original Church"!, (v. 47)


2) Acts 8:1-17....."City of Samaria, both men and women" were "schooled" by their Teachers, Philip and Peter......and when their "class was adjourned",.....they were "baptized in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost,.....and the original Church grew larger!


3) Acts 10:1-48....."Cornelius and his household" were "schooled" by their Teacher, Peter,......and "before class could be adjourned",......they "received the Holy Ghost, "first",....and then were consequently baptized in Jesus' name,.....and the original Church grew,....even larger!


4) Acts 19:1-7....."12 Disciples of John the Baptist" were "schooled" by their Teacher, Paul,....."class was adjourned",.....they were "re-baptized,...this time in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost,.....and the Church grows again!


5) Acts 8:26-40....."Ethiopian eunuch", (1 man), was "schooled" by his Teacher, Philip,.....and when "class was adjourned",......he was baptized and "born of the water and the Spirit",....and the Church grew, this time, by "1" more!!!


greybeard,....I apologize for the "redundancy" above, but it should be especially noted that God,.....in "every case" here,.....had a Teacher(s),.......with various amounts of "students" present for these "classroom sessions".

Regardless if the "classroom" consisted of a city,... (as in the case of Samaria),... with multitudes of "students",.....OR......if the "classroom" only consisted of "1" student, as with the Ethiopian eunuch,......a valuable lesson was to be taught,...absorbed by the student(s),....and then applied. ( I'm also elated to report that these "students",....ALL.....passed with "flying colors"!!!)

greybeard,.....more often than not,....it "requires" a Teacher, ( a "seasoned" saint of God), to show someone else the "way" to salvation. No greater example of this can possibly be shown than in the case of the, lone, Ethiopian eunuch. After an angel of God had directed Philip to "meet" this "lone student" in the desert,.....Philip caught up with the Ethiopian eunuch, at his chariot, just as he was attempting to read out of his Bible, the passage from Isaiah 53:7. As Philip watched the eunuch "reading" he, no doubt, recognized that a problem existed. The eunuch, (student), was "struggling to understand".

Acts 8:30-31
King James Version (KJV)

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.


It's here, greybeard,.....that, quite frankly,.....a "Bible study" broke out!

After reading, together, the passage of Isaiah 53:7,....the eunuch questioned Philip.....

Acts 8:34-35
King James Version (KJV)

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.


From this point, just look back above, to #5, for the "results of this Bible study"



greybeard,.....I, "too", love to periodically study "alone",.....in the "quiet of night". It's there that I have accumulated many "priceless gems' from the contents of God's Holy Word! Consequently I have equally realized the "priceless moments" that I've been privileged to experience in the "seat of a student". I've proudly sat in "both seats",.....as a "student",.....and now as a "teacher". I shudder to think where I would be "if" I had never "humbled myself" and accepted the "seat of a student",....not only like the "eunuch" did,......but every one of the individuals that I described above!!!

Victorious Christians,......never leave,...or omit,....the "seat of a student"!!!

Bible studies,....with others,.....in Church,.....are vital to your "Christian survival"


(in conclusion)


2 Timothy 2:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


and......

Hebrews 10:24-25
King James Version (KJV)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


These passages tell me how "vitally important" it is to "study His Word",......so that we might "rightly divide",.....(or "properly interpret"),....It's content,.....and then apply! In connection with this,....we are then exhorted to "gather together",.......assemble ourselves together! ("This",....quite frankly, means......"go to Church",......attend and give,.... (as a "student",....and a "teacher"),...... "Bible studies").


This is no time to,.....maroon yourself on your own little "Christian island"!,....and attempt to,......"wing it on your own!!"


And, yes......greybeard,.....believe it or not,.....I did not need,( or require),.....a "collection of minds", (Bible study group),.....to write this,.....or any other posts that I've share here on Avalon.


"He",......is my "teacher",......and I,.....the "student"!!!

(hint:........"He" let's me type,......though!)


God bless you, my friend,.......your servant,.......kreagle

[greybeard]

Hi Kreagle
respectfully read post 1454.
I have been on my own path for 35 years and have sat with enlightened masters.
Yes I was influenced by them but there was no dogma ever involved.
Im not against you path Kreagle its just not mine--- mine works beautifully for me.
Im sure yours works beautifully for you.
With Love Chris

[gripreaper]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Hi Kreagle
respectfully read post 1454.
I have been on my own path for 35 years and have sat with enlightened masters.
Yes I was influenced by them but there was no dogma ever involved.
Im not against you path Kreagle its just not mine--- mine works beautifully for me.
Im sure yours works beautifully for you.
With Love Chris

There was a man who met another man on a trail walking up a mountain. The one man asked if he was going to turn right or left at the next fork, as they did not go the same direction. One man took the left fork, and the other man took the right fork. When they both wound up at the summit, the one man asked: "I thought you took the other trail?" to which he replied: "It does not matter which trail you take on the mountain, all trails eventually lead to the summit.

Trying to say there is only one path and your path is absolute, is not consistent with nature or truth.

[Unified Serenity]

Observer,

I am curious as it seems from your post that you believe in Yeshua? What was the New Covenant he established with those following him and all who would come after because of their testimony?