Drake: Updates, clarifications and more

[9eagle9]

These people would be ever so much more gratified in their personal lives if they would just accept their great story telling ability and become published novelists. Apparently this is an expression straining to come out that is mis-directed.

Rule of writing number 1) The story line is so good it becomes real to the person (author) expressing it.

If it doesn't, it sucks.

Posted by gripreaper (here)
Here's a little update, clarification, AND MORE!!! from Cobra's JUly 3rd Interview:

C: I have said many times before that all negative ET’s have been cleared out. They are not existing anymore. There are no Greys flying in UFO’s around, there are no Reptilians in the earth and no motherships, there are no Reptilian bases anywhere. This is gone completely. The only thing that remains is the Cabal. They are actually extraterrestrials , which have invaded this planet many lifetimes ago, and they keep reincarnating in the same positions of power. Apart from that we have the non-physical Archons, which have also invaded from other planets and are here like I would say ghosts on the interdimensional planes and maintaining this quarantine. There are no negative ET forces flying around in their mother ships or UFO’s. That is gone.

A: That is great to hear. Now do you also agree with some of the news that is coming out that there are different ET factions per continent on the planet?

C: In the Cabal yes. You have the Rothschilds faction, which is the Orion, I would say the Orion forces. You have the Rockefeller faction, which more the Draconians and you have the Jesuit faction, which is a mixture of Andromedans and Reptilians.

C: And they basically are headquartered in various parts of the world, is what you are saying?

C: Oh yes! The Rothschilds mostly control Europe and you have the Rockefellers, which mostly control the United States, and you have the Jesuits for the rest of the world

http://galacticconnection.com/cobra-...om-july-3-2012

So, this thread should be buzzing with excitement and a huge party taking place, with ALL the bad ET's gone! Where is everybody?

[Christine]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
That would be nice, but to become "our own" shaman we'd first need to be 100% sure we were not lying to ourselves and that the person we found to teach us shamanism was not themselves lying in any way either. There is no way to establish trust because there is no definitive starting point where we can be sure we are partaking in an undistorted, correct way of going about it. I mean I can say that certain people (This forum has a few of them) obviously seem very genuine about their practice. However when it comes into the realm of forming definite conclusions my trust is only at best a gamble I'm taking because I'm still making any assessment of anyone based on the idea that:

1: I would know in any way who I could trust.
2: I am able to research correctly into shamanism
3: That I could use item 2 and 1 to determine a good shamanic instructor.

But the problem is the first two, is that it would be trivial for a myriad of circumstances to prevent me from ever being able to figure out individual trust on a personal level let alone be able to even judge the quality of an instructor in a practice I am not even sure I'm correctly acquainted with yet. Similarly I could have my research sabotaged by any number of subjective biases or simply not be competent at academic level research. Now, I'm certain I have some level of competency at those things but I am not certain the level of that competency. And it is because of that issue that I am able to be quite certain in absolute terms of only one thing: I am unable to judge in any way who would be right to learn from or what information regarding shamanism is accurate.

Therefore, my assessments of anyone else's abilities could be hopelessly flawed, and worse yet I might lack the metacognitive ability to realize my own assessment is hopelessly flawed.

Because of that it can be considered that it would be impossible for me to even learn shamanism because I would never be able to be certain of any instruction I had received because there was never any one point I could be certain neither I nor the other person was in any way being deceptive or reiterating information that was based on past deception. (such as distorted teachings that could be passed down for instance.)

I might form ideas and attempt to convince myself of their certainty to establish a faux-trust, but that trust would be based on the illusion that I had in all certainty established and verified the accuracy of all material; as well as that I was fully mentally capable of making that assessment. (Which of course for a start is impossible if you're the newbie learning from someone else.) So really, without figuring out who's lying beforehand there's just no certain way to do it.

I could still take a gamble, like everyone else. But I would rather not gamble on such important matters.

Hi Vast_Mystery,

You analytical style impresses me, it is definitely useful to encompass as many possibilities within the realm of our perception. It is also possible to get so convoluted in the analysis that the reality point is lost.

So much is being written about the ways that manipulators or energy vampires can get at us. And it isn't just the "elite" or the shamans or the whatevers that we look up to for guidance that take energy, this is being played out in almost every human encounter. How about on the forum between members?

The things that make us strong, resilient, perceptive and aware are the result of a combination of experiences, courage, intelligence and importantly our ability to remain in the Observer point of view. The more I am able to "see" what is occurring in my live from that perspective the better I am able to determine what is truly going on and make a determination for myself on how to act or not act, say or not say, etc.

This is the act of living really and we are up against huge odds in these final pages of our current paradigm. I am only able to write these words because, like many others on this forum, I have taken risks, fallen down, been beaten and got up again. Experience and Resiliency.

We gamble no matter which way we choose because we do not know the outcome of our choice. If we knew the outcome we wouldn't be here. Or would we?

La Tigra

¤=[Post Update]=¤

P.S. Funny how this thread doesn't have much to do with Drake anymore...

[Ishtar]

Posted by La Tigra (here)
And it isn't just the "elite" or the shamans or the whatevers that we look up to for guidance that take energy, this is being played out in almost every human encounter. How about on the forum between members?

I think there may be a misunderstanding about what a true shaman is and does here.

As a practising shaman, I just give people a key ... and that key gets them their power back. During my training, I spent a lot of time being taught by an excellent teacher about power... about the management of power, about how we all learn from the cradle to steal power from each other, how we learn to do that in the family situation with sibling rivalry and also we see our parents stealing power from each other, and so we just automatically copy that learned behaviour. It is the modus operandi of this planet, the exploitation of each other within a hierarchical food chain.

I was quite shocked during my training to learn how much I had inadvertently stolen power from others, and I journeyed extensively over more than a year to return the power back to those I had stolen it from. I also saw where I had given my power away... even to the most spiritual of gurus, I had sold myself out.. it still wasn't OK to do that. And to be fair to the last one I was with, in India, he would unfailingly give me back my power back every time I tried to give it to him, although I didn't understand at the time what he was doing or why, and sometimes I felt hurt by his behaviour. Only later, it made sense to me.

So I would say probably over a period of years (and I was lucky in who trained me) I learned how to manage my own power, how to not steal it from others and how not to let others steal it from me. When you live your life this way, you are sometimes a bit unpopular with people when the only way they know of being in relationship is the "velcro way" ~ and in standing outside of that stickiness, you can sometimes appear to be slightly inhuman or cold. But it isn't that at all...the Love is much bigger and less conditional than what is being offered or exchanged in a "velcro relationship".

I've been working shamanically with clients now for about six years, and I would say that the conclusion I've come to is that most dis-ease stems from lack of power .. either because the person has had power stolen from them or in many cases, particularly with women, because they had given away their power. I really enjoy being a witness to the transformation that occurs over a very short time~ sometimes just weeks ~ as the client begins to use the key I showed them to unlock the way of retrieving their power.

The change is palpable and very pleasing to me to such an extent that I often say the sign of a good shamanic healer is an empty waiting room. People sort themselves out very quickly once given this key, and then I rarely see them again except they sometimes send me nice emails to say how well they're doing. But this is in contradistinction to many kinds of healers where a dependency forms between the healer and the healee, and the healee has to keep going back for more.

I just wanted to say all this because I noted that La Tigre's post had lumped shamans in with the elite as people that steal power ~ and to say that certainly anyone who's lucky enough to be trained as I was practises the very opposite.

I would also say from 9eagle9's posts, if she doesn't mind me speaking for her, that her stance appears to be very similar. Her's are the least power-grabbing posts on this forum.

[Christine]

Posted by Ishtar (here)

Posted by La Tigra (here)
And it isn't just the "elite" or the shamans or the whatevers that we look up to for guidance that take energy, this is being played out in almost every human encounter. How about on the forum between members?

I think there may be a misunderstanding about what a true shaman is and does here.

As a practising shaman, I just give people a key ... and that key gets them their power back. During my training, I spent a lot of time being taught by an excellent teacher about power... about the management of power, about how we all learn from the cradle to steal power from each other, how we learn to do that in the family situation with sibling rivalry and also we see our parents stealing power from each other, and so we just automatically copy that learned behaviour. It is the modus operandi of this planet, the exploitation of each other within a hierarchical food chain.

I was quite shocked during my training to learn how much I had inadvertently stolen power from others, and I journeyed extensively over more than a year to return the power back to those I had stolen it from. I also saw where I had given my power away... even to the most spiritual of gurus, I had sold myself out.. it still wasn't OK to do that. And to be fair to the last one I was with, in India, he would unfailingly give me back my power back every time I tried to give it to him, although I didn't understand at the time what he was doing or why, and sometimes I felt hurt by his behaviour. Only later, it made sense to me.

So I would say probably over a period of years (and I was lucky in who trained me) I learned how to manage my own power, how to not steal it from others and how not to let others steal it from me. When you live your life this way, you are sometimes a bit unpopular with people when the only way they know of being in relationship is the "velcro way" ~ and in standing outside of that stickiness, you can sometimes appear to be slightly inhuman or cold. But it isn't that at all...the Love is much bigger and less conditional than what is being offered or exchanged in a "velcro relationship".

I've been working shamanically with clients now for about six years, and I would say that the conclusion I've come to is that most dis-ease stems from lack of power .. either because the person has had power stolen from them or in many cases, particularly with women, because they had given away their power. I really enjoy being a witness to the transformation that occurs over a very short time~ sometimes just weeks ~ as the client begins to use the key I showed them to unlock the way of retrieving their power.

The change is palpable and very pleasing to me to such an extent that I often say the sign of a good shamanic healer is an empty waiting room. People sort themselves out very quickly once given this key, and then I rarely see them again except they sometimes send me nice emails to say how well they're doing. But this is in contradistinction to many kinds of healers where a dependency forms between the healer and the healee, and the healee has to keep going back for more.

I just wanted to say all this because I noted that La Tigre's post had lumped shamans in with the elite as people that steal power ~ and to say that certainly anyone who's lucky enough to be trained as I was practises the very opposite.

I would also say from 9eagle9's posts, if she doesn't mind me speaking for her, that her stance appears to be very similar. Her's are the least power-grabbing posts on this forum.

Ishtar,

I have nothing against shamans, though I have known a few nasty ones, and one in particular that just about killed me, but that is another story.

I have also seen how some healers suck energy out of their clients... I apologize if I was too quick to use the name shaman to get a point across. I actually have a great deal of respect for 9eagle9 and yourself. I find your posts align very closely with what I understand about energy and how to get free from the snare of the energy vampires.

Please accept my humble apology and thank you for your post.

La Tigra

[9eagle9]

Power grabbing isn't a term I've used before but its appropriate. There is a big difference between the shamanic practitioner and the shaman. Shaman is a state of being. Like women have certain state of being, and men have a certain state of being, the shaman is a state of being. Being a shaman whether you are drinking a beer or making a drum.

I could teach anyone shaman practices, shake rattles, spit, beat drums but its learning to manage one' s own energy that creates the state of being to the point you don't need a rattle.

In my area the shamans do nothing but engage in power struggles with each other, their students, even their clients they are all corded in to each other in this great ego battle and its . And I can't help but know this is deliberat and covert form of discrediting someone who has an actual apptitude for showing people how to manage themselves and their energy. It used to be a shaman was a rare thing and the Metro Detroit area is carpeted with them because we have shaman mills here, just churn them out every weekend.

I would absolutely be the first person to be least offended by the observations of energy sucking and shamans. When I used to see clients it got to the point I could tell what shaman they came from due to the nature of their attachments and physical expressions of disease. One man in the area works with his students and clientel and they all are stricken with disease, and no one seems to make the connection that perfectly healthy people are no longer healthy after spending six months with this man who is fearful that I can't imagine him touching anyone .....blah....yurk.

But I see the same thing in those circles I see in this thread. This medicine man sweeps into town and he's the flavor of the month, and the toast of the town, and I'm thinking "He's yurky, he's dense, he's fearful" and everyone rolling their eyes and killing the fatted calf and telling me I'm negative. And then two months later the man is found out to be feeling people up during healings and breaking up marriages and then....NOT A WORD. While one is shrugging, "sorry to say told you so but...told you so" NO ONE Is saying "Oh gee, I guess he wasn't everything he was cracked up to be."

Just avoidance and then a month later it happens again. Another flamboyant flim flammer sweeps and out comes the fatted calf, ...it just amazes me.

[Unified Serenity]

I have taught energetics for nearly 2 decades. I don't go out advertising, though I did offer services in my spa some years ago. Dis-ease is exactly what it says. We get out of balance and do not realize the core cause of the imbalance and sadly most people treat the symptoms either energetically or medicinally or both. Clearing one's energy, realizing the cords of attachment, barbs of injury wounding our spirit is key to healing in my opinion. So many people ignore the "wounded spirit" aspect to their detriment. One must take a true self inventory. It does not have to be revealed to anyone, but it's a key step in true healing. In that life inventory you will discover areas that you harmed another through an intentional or unintentional thought word or deed and others doing it to you.

Once the inventory is done, you simply admit your wrongdoing and ask for forgiveness. This is where discernment must play a role. Sometimes you do need to go to someone and tell them they hurt you and other times, doing so will cause more harm, and you don't want that. It is a situation by situation thing, and should be done prayerfully. Likewise, you have to admit your pain caused by others, and sometimes you need to go to that person and tell them what they did to you, and if they ask forgiveness that is fine, but sometimes they won't and that is fine too. You have taken the step to clear the energy. Again, use discernment and case by case make your decision to reach out to that person. I have seen families healed by this because the other party had no idea they hurt you. They will realize it, apologize and the healing begins from there and that energetic blockage you felt with them that manifested somehow in your body will disappear. If it's not appropriate to go to them or say they are no longer alive, you can still speak to the event, take away it's power, forgive them and let it go. Picture the cord or wound now cleansed, but know it's a bit raw. Fill it with Divine light and love.

This process takes a lot of effort and most importantly self honesty. Sometimes there needs to be some paying off of debts. Sometimes, it's returning something you kept and shouldn't have kept. Sometimes it's burning old photos or letters you hung onto that are like an albatross around your neck...... are you suffering from a pain in the neck? This may be a clue. Do you feel a stab in the back? Again, might be a clue. Do you feel anxiety? It might be a clue / symptom of feeling someone has something against you ... do they have a reason to feel that way? Ignoring these things does not make them go away. What we stuff down emotionally will express itself physically and spiritually. Are you depressed, anxious, sad, fearful? Do a spiritual inventory and see what you find. I do them occasionally, and always find somethings I need to deal with. As a rule for me though, I try to correct things as I go. I find it's much easier that way, and I sleep very well at night.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I just wanted to say all this because I noted that La Tigre's post had lumped shamans in with the elite as people that steal power ~ and to say that certainly anyone who's lucky enough to be trained as I was practises the very opposite.

Ya might not believe me but I have a little bit of knowledge about "shamans".....a sorcerer steals power, a shaman never would do such a thing, a shaman would never even consider doing such a thing, a shaman has no need to do such a thing.

A sorcerer's main goal is to steal power to feed the ego and mind, to harm others and to fill a need or get a fix like a heroin addict seeks so to speak.

The shaman should never even be compared to the elite sicko's, they have nothing in common....one heals and helps, the other harms and destroys....

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I just wanted to say all this because I noted that La Tigre's post had lumped shamans in with the elite as people that steal power ~ and to say that certainly anyone who's lucky enough to be trained as I was practises the very opposite.

Ya might not believe me but I have a little bit of knowledge about "shamans".....a sorcerer steals power, a shaman never would do such a thing, a shaman would never even consider doing such a thing, a shaman has no need to do such a thing.

A sorcerer's main goal is to steal power to feed the ego and mind, to harm others and to fill a need or get a fix like a heroin addict seeks so to speak.

The shaman should never even be compared to the elite sicko's, they have nothing in common....one heals and helps, the other harms and destroys....

Shamans are people too. They can abuse their skills like anyone else.

[Ishtar]

I can only talk from my own experience, and I've found that any kind of spiritual healing practitioner only steals power according to their own abilities (or lack of, I should say) to get beyond the astral planes into the deeper dimensions which are created by the all-knowing, benevolent Spirit entities.

My experience of being in these deeper (let's call them shamanic) dimensions is that a transfer of information takes place ~ and I mean 'information' in the true sense of the word, which is more like a download of energy than an exchange of words ~ and then it becomes impossible in that environment to have any selfish desires, because one is in the planes of the selfless spirits and one becomes like them. I've found that it has changed me radically to be in such company to the extent that, at the very least, I have no desire or need to steal anything from anyone. But those who can't get into those deeper dimension don't have that experience, and I wouldn't call these people shamans although they often call themselves such. Like Silent Feathers said, I would call these people sorcerors.

I live in a town of sorcerors, with only a couple of shamans. When I first came here, several of the sorcerors tried to vamp on my energies, and it took me a while to realise and sort it out. I can allow people to vamp on my energies, on my power, because I am always or often in touch with an infinite power source, so it doesn't matter to me if people want some of mine... except, I have to stop it, because it's bad for them, which makes it bad juju all round for everyone.

I refer to those sorceror energy-stealing types as 'psychic vampires' and I've written an article about how to protect ourselves from psychic vampires called Eating People Is Wrong.

La Tigra, it was very sweet of you to apologise, but not needed from my point of view. I saw that you were trying to convey a lot of dense information very quickly and had inadvertently conflated two different types. I've done the same myself in the past, for the same reason. I really enjoy your posts too!

[gripreaper]

But what about Drake and Cobra and Lady Dragon? Don't you know there is another deadline coming up on the 27th?

[StarDust]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
But what about Drake and Cobra and Lady Dragon? Don't you know there is another deadline coming up on the 27th?

Seriously, the shamanic intent discussion should be spawned into its own thread. Just a thought.

[Ishtar]

Posted by StarDust (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
But what about Drake and Cobra and Lady Dragon? Don't you know there is another deadline coming up on the 27th?

Seriously, the shamanic intent discussion should be spawned into its own thread. Just a thought.

You're probably right, Stardust, but before we do that... I'd like to say that this discussion has been relevant here, because the whole Drake/Cobra/Lady Dragon thing is based on fooling those who don't stand in their own power, and they are using that energy of those followers to fuel an uprising into the streets (which Drake is being more honest about now) and which would be disastrous.

Simply, there is nowhere near enough people to overturn any government or entrenched power elite. Most people are oblivious to what's going on and so would be easily convinced, if the Drake followers do take to the streets, that they are home-grown terrorists and would back martial law being imposed.

This modus operandi, of leading 'revolutions' from behind, mirrors American foreign policy in the Middle East and Africa and has been responsible for revolutions in Morocco, Egypt, Libya and Syria (at least and probably other so-called 'revolutions' that we don't yet know about). So if Drake really does have a contact at the Pentagon, then I'd say that the MO is running true to form.

You could also say that, in siphoning off all this power from their followers for their own ends, Drake and Co are behaving like sorcerors.

PS Gripreaper... I'm loving your updates... I don't know why, because you deliver them absolutely straight, but they make me laugh uproariously!

[9eagle9]

You know...I compare shamans to the elite sickos..because the greater proportion of shamans aren't who they claim to be or think they are. ....but I compare a lot of the ordinary everyday alternative media citizen to the elite sickos as well. There are a lot of allegedly mystical and non mystical people who don't know what they are serving and investing their energy towards is not only lacking integration, its locking the door on their jail cell--by their own choice. They don't even know what they are thinking.

They are driven by their emotions, whatever is lacking in them, whatever un-realized wounds they have .

Occasionally someone asks me why the powers that be do not suffer karmically for their dastardly deeds. I am not a believer in Karma as the way most people understand it, I see it as more of cause and effect sort of scenario based on the baggage people drag around through lifetimes.

But I can see why someone would ask that, you'd think after what we percieve the ptb is doing, they'd have ocean liners full of rebounding karma but they seem to be able to skid through AGES and eons of time without having their control panels karmically implode.

The ptb in spite of all their assholery knows how to keep their hands clean karmically. They are much better at it than those who unwittingly serve them for sure. We get to carry their karma for them which is why there are there and we are here. They know that getting people to agree and particpate with their programs means less karmic rebound, people even agree to carry their karma because that is what we intended for---to be their slaves and carry their suitcases.

And by using the Drakes in the world, and getting people to agree to a ptb orginated program under their volition the ptb do not have the sort of rebound effect that one would expect. The sort that you and I would experience for much less.

They are masters of pyschology and they are master's of occult. In order to not trippety-trap into their covert mind control and occult traps one basically has to be a master of psychology and the occult as well. If only for observational reasons.

Or rather knowing one's enemy and when you know your enemy you also know how you can give them power over you by your own agreement...you are then your own worst enemy. The Drake adherents do not know this. Drake the self proclaimed Magickal Occultist is not expressing this to them. He is clearly expressing it to the shamanic community though.

One has to be to authentically examine and not flinch from what they are seeing.

You look honestly at what you are doing and participating in and you can find power over those circumstances.

You don't look at it honestly, you will just continue to agree to lose power and authority over yourself.

Drake is not an empowered person and his fans are not either. Basic energy attraction, that a novice healer would notice.

They may think they are but they aren't because they don't even know what they are involved in. And they don't have the ability to authentically examine and you don't need to be a shaman to look at something honestly.

This emphasizes how people are the hapless and unwitting agents of the powers that be by involving themselves in this sort of thing ....If they are ignorant enough to involve themselves in these loss of self endeavors certainly they are going to be ignorant enough to wonder why I am not on my knees singing Aria's of Respect to them.

It would be very nice if everyone got back into their shamanic side but unless everyone does the 'shaman solution' that is no solution at all.

And having a bunch of shamans running around is not going to help.

The presence of a shaman doesn't matter to this scenario whatsoever.

Basically people have made their choice long before Drake was known to them. You see that reflected in the way the same people hop on board everytime a new flash in the pan guru comes along. Last winter all those people milling around David Wilcocks are now milling around Drake. That is because they have made a choice so they can't do anything differently.

There's a number of people i know in this thread who are very tuned in and shamanic and they are calling this crap out , and not only making prediction about it that have come to pass in far greater numbers than Drakes predictions, BECAUSE they can see what is occurring here but who is listening to them....just the other very tuned in people, not the people who are actually involving themselves in the loss of self.

If a celebrity shaman comes along , which is what Drake is attempting to express, then it may be a little different but only because people have their Celebrity's Have Authority ' programming.

People want to commit suicide in public....but they also want to cry when their audience doesn't applaud and support them for it.

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I just wanted to say all this because I noted that La Tigre's post had lumped shamans in with the elite as people that steal power ~ and to say that certainly anyone who's lucky enough to be trained as I was practises the very opposite.

Ya might not believe me but I have a little bit of knowledge about "shamans".....a sorcerer steals power, a shaman never would do such a thing, a shaman would never even consider doing such a thing, a shaman has no need to do such a thing.

A sorcerer's main goal is to steal power to feed the ego and mind, to harm others and to fill a need or get a fix like a heroin addict seeks so to speak.

The shaman should never even be compared to the elite sicko's, they have nothing in common....one heals and helps, the other harms and destroys....

[9eagle9]

There is a reason they are called 'dead' lines.

They never seem to come to life..

Maybe we should call them zombie lines.

Posted by gripreaper (here)
But what about Drake and Cobra and Lady Dragon? Don't you know there is another deadline coming up on the 27th?

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)

Shamans are people too. They can abuse their skills like anyone else.

The instant they begin to abuse their skills they are no longer a shaman, but become a sorcerer.....Like 9Eagle9 says, most shamans today don't know the meaning of what a shaman truly is (paraphrasing).

[Fred Steeves]

I'm curious abourt the way "sorcerer" is being described here. Don Juan Matus in Carlos Casatneda's series refers to himself and his lineage as sorcerers. Surely the "sorcerers of old" he talks of are like this, but not the modern ones, like himself. Maybe one of the shamans, or sorcerers here can clear this up for me?

Thanks,
Fred

[Christine]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I just wanted to say all this because I noted that La Tigre's post had lumped shamans in with the elite as people that steal power ~ and to say that certainly anyone who's lucky enough to be trained as I was practises the very opposite.

Ya might not believe me but I have a little bit of knowledge about "shamans".....a sorcerer steals power, a shaman never would do such a thing, a shaman would never even consider doing such a thing, a shaman has no need to do such a thing.

A sorcerer's main goal is to steal power to feed the ego and mind, to harm others and to fill a need or get a fix like a heroin addict seeks so to speak.

The shaman should never even be compared to the elite sicko's, they have nothing in common....one heals and helps, the other harms and destroys....

Hello Silent Feathers,

Yes, well said and spot on in describing the difference between two schools of practice. I could have said sorcerer for indeed it was sorcery that I got caught up in though the person used the title shaman and healer. When I think of Sorcerer I think of Don Juan from Carlos Castaneda's work, who I have respect for.

It is a matter of semantics and our own identification with tags that quite often trips us up. We all need to hone our ability to read energy and quit fooling ourselves. Of course this means we need integrity within ourselves first.

Whether we heal or harm and destroy actually have very little to do with the title we go by.

Thanks,

La Tigra

[Ishtar]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
I'm curious abourt the way "sorcerer" is being described here. Don Juan Matus in Carlos Casatneda's series refers to himself and his lineage as sorcerers. Surely the "sorcerers of old" he talks of are like this, but not the modern ones, like himself. Maybe one of the shamans, or sorcerers here can clear this up for me?

Thanks,
Fred

I think Castenada may have just used that term because at the time he was writing, as an anthropologist to an unenlightened audience, the word 'shaman' had not really entered the mainstream. This is complicated by the fact that 'shaman' is a Siberian word for a Siberian shaman, but this type of practitioner was known differently according to where they lived.

Don Juan was known not as a shaman but a 'nagual', which is the Meso-American word for what we call a 'shaman'. Here are some others I've collated over the years... just to show that in the end, really, we cannot go by titles alone. These are all different people that work with the spirits within the trance state, and known by different names all over the world.

Andean (Quecha) shaman — P’ago
Arab (pre Moslem) — Baksylvk
Australian shamanism — Wulla-mullung
Australian spirit — Budian
Bedouin form of shamanism — Fugara
Celtic shaman – Druid
Chinese shaman —Tang-ki
Hawaiian form of shamanism — Huna Kane
Indian Vedic shaman — Rishi
Indonesian shaman — Dukun
Inuit shaman — Angakok
Jewish shaman — Baal Shem (in Hebrew, it means “Master of the Name”)
Korean female shaman — Mondang
Korean shamanic initiation — Nae-Rim-Kut
Lakota spirits — Wakan Tanka
Meso American shaman — Nagual
Mongolian shaman – Boo
Nigerian shaman — Babalawo
Norse female shaman —Voelva/Volva/Vala/Seidhkona
Peruvian shaman —Sheripiari
Siberian shaman – Shaman
Tibetan shaman — Pa’wo
Tibetan shamanism — Bonpo
Turkish shaman — Sahir-þairl
Ukrainian female shaman — Znakharka
Voodoo female shaman — Mambo
West African spirits — Kontomblé

So for the purposes of this discussion, I agree with SilentFeathers, that we should call a spirit worker who works selfishly a sorceror, and one who works for the good of all, we should call a shaman. That will save a lot of confusion.

(Sorry, La Tigra, I think our posts crossed.)

[Christine]

Yes they did... it is hard to define the work so many do in one name.

[Ishtar]

Yes, I agree La Tigra, but you were bang on the button with:

We all need to hone our ability to read energy and quit fooling ourselves. Of course this means we need integrity within ourselves first.

...

which is also bound up with trusting your own intuition. But a further thought occurs to me and that is if you have given your power away, you are very often completely divorced from your intuition and cannot hear even hear the loud clanging alarm bells going off.