The Bible

[observer]

Posted by Beren (here)
Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of Beren's comment.

Beren, my brother,

I am not debating, nor objecting - in any way - to the words you speak in the above comment. I have long been a subscriber to every one of the concepts you are espousing.

I would, here, emphasize the fact that we spend many lifetimes existing within this density of the 'fallen'.... this duality of Satan/Rex Mundi, trying to figure-out how to get back out.

• My debate within this thread has been to demonstrate how the Bible has been used - throughout history - to entrap and enslave the Mass of Humanity into this duality.
• My point is that Yahweh/Jehovah IS NOT the "One True God" that you refer to as the "Creator of Everything".

It is upon this point alone that I continue this debate with you.

• Yes, I agree that everything beyond all imagination is all part of the "One True God".
• Yes, I agree that we are all within this particular density because we have each chosen to be here.... to learn.
• Yes, I agree that following the Love within your heart is the way out of this nightmare.

But, my point is, knowledge and understanding is a critical factor in this exit strategy.

It is only through the understanding that Yahweh is NOT the "One True God" one must seek to exit this density. It is imperative that one knows what traps to look-out for.

One can take my observations for what they are worth to one's self, individually. I'm making no claim to being a messenger of any hyperdimensional being. I'm simply showing evidence and including my personal interpretation of that evidence.

It is time for all of Humanity to ascend out of this incredibly obscene matrix of control. The evidence I present is foundational in understanding how, and why there is a control mechanism in place, here in this reality.

All I'm saying to anyone reading this is: be careful of what god to whom you proclaim your eternal soul.

[kreagle]

observer,

Sooner, or later,.......the "truth" always comes out. Your latest statement is "very revealing",....to say the least.

Your quote........

It is time for a NEW theology.... a NEW understanding....

You've made it more than obvious that you are "abandoning the teachings" of the Old Testament,........and especially the Deity of Jehovah, God.

"Many", like you, have likewise endeavored to "write their own version",......and......"create their own god".

We are "all" adequately warned in the Scriptures about "those" who would attempt such a thing.


Galatians 1:6-9
King James Version (KJV)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


We certainly don't need "another version" of the Bible written,....by "you",......or anyone else! There are so many "versions",.....right now,......that a good majority of them have become "watered down" and "diluted",.....consequently either destroying, or hiding some of the "great truths" that were intended to be shared with mankind!


Your "latest" statement, (highlighted above), is very troubling......


kreagle

[observer]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of kreagle's comment.

kreagle, my brother,

You are using 'circular logic' to prove a point in a debate regarding the validity of ANY biblical text. This is a technique also used by the OP of this thread, RedeZra. You cannot use text from the Bible to prove your point and make any data points with some critically thinking individuals.

Further, for you to assume that I am proposing any sort of NEW Bible, "written by me", is a pointless absurdity within your debate.

My point is that the Mass of Humanity is now at a place where we need to abandon the Words of Man - The Bible - and find the understanding of the way out of this matrix by following what is in our individual heart.

[Beren]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by Beren (here)
Click-on forwarding arrow to see content of Beren's comment.

Beren, my brother,

I am not debating, nor objecting - in any way - to the words you speak in the above comment. I have long been a subscriber to every one of the concepts you are espousing.

I would, here, emphasize the fact that we spend many lifetimes existing within this density of the 'fallen'.... this duality of Satan/Rex Mundi, trying to figure-out how to get back out.

• My debate within this thread has been to demonstrate how the Bible has been used - throughout history - to entrap and enslave the Mass of Humanity into this duality.
• My point is that Yahweh/Jehovah IS NOT the "One True God" that you refer to as the "Creator of Everything".

It is upon this point alone that I continue this debate with you.

• Yes, I agree that everything beyond all imagination is all part of the "One True God".
• Yes, I agree that we are all within this particular density because we have each chosen to be here.... to learn.
• Yes, I agree that following the Love within your heart is the way out of this nightmare.

But, my point is, knowledge and understanding is a critical factor in this exit strategy.

It is only through the understanding that Yahweh is NOT the "One True God" one must seek to exit this density. It is imperative that one knows what traps to look-out for.

One can take my observations for what they are worth to one's self, individually. I'm making no claim to being a messenger of any hyperdimensional being. I'm simply showing evidence and including my personal interpretation of that evidence.

It is time for all of Humanity to ascend out of this incredibly obscene matrix of control. The evidence I present is foundational in understanding how, and why there is a control mechanism in place, here in this reality.

All I'm saying to anyone reading this is: be careful of what god to whom you proclaim your eternal soul.

Well let's broaden this more shall we?

You perceived correctly that Bible "WAS USED" to enslave humanity.
All teaching were used aswell.

Bible per se is a tool as I wrote earlier aswell as other teachings and works throughout ages.
It's the people who abuse it over other people.

Can you see the knife connection about which I wrote before?
We are such powerful beings that we can do anything we focus on, sadly our focus was twisted and loaded with negativity ,thus evil, hence this world today.

If you follow Bible from first to the last page, pick up any printed edition on English, you 'd see that actually 97% of the time Israelites did not listened God YHWH or Yahwe or modern rendition Jehovah.
Israel turned according to concepts of surrounding nations. They embraced sex cults of Baal ,child sacrifices of Moloch and later on when exiting Babylon - their teachings thus completing Talmud which was then filled like a Goulash with various teachings ,mixed all over from YHWH towards mystery schools of east.

And all this WAS against what Yahwe told them to do.

All.

High peak of their blasphemy was that they offered sacrifices of pigs and rest of the others (for them ) unclean animals and even humans in the temple of YHWH.
All this is totally against what YHWH or Yahwe told them.

You can find this in Bible .

Majority of their history is the description how they wander from this idol to that idol.
Only scarcely actually listening Yahwe.

Until Jesus came to finally correct the teaching and install higher knowledge.
They as a nation refused but as individual people accepted his words.

Even Jesus's name was Yeshua which means Yahweh saves...
From whom Yahwe saves?

From ignorance and evil which they were doing.

Again I repeat the Hebrew rendition is YHWH or Yahwe which means I am who I am.
Serbian is Ja jesam onaj koji jesam , I cannot tell the French or Italian or Arabic one but you get the point.


So at the end here it's not God's fault that humans twisted his words and did evil in the name of God.
It's humans fault.

Some even today claim that in the name of Jesus do horrible things ...

Take all religion today that claim that God and Christ are their inspiration and commanders, you will not find that they are practicing what is written in Bible.
If Catholics listened to the Bible ,the very one whom they printed , they would not do anything of what they did throughout history.

We have now confusion of what is actually in the Bible and what is the interpretation of various religions and sects.

Look for example 10 commandments,

Religion today falls upon every single one. And yet they dare to claim that God is their God.
That Christ is their Lord.

What a shame!

For them is reserved this verse from Bible:

Matthew 7:21-23

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who does what my Father in heaven wants. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we force out demons and do many miracles by the power and authority of your name?’ 23 Then I will tell them publicly, ‘I’ve never known you. Get away from me, you evil people.’



I bolded out that sentence of Christ where he says that he doesn't know them . Notice that he uses continuum phrase "never known" which implies that in long time span they were never in personal relationship with Christ. They never attempted to get to know him personally.
But they continued to abuse his name.

Now since they continually chose to abuse God's name ,the effect of their choice is the lake of fire- ever burning truth which will burn their masks and creations until only that remains is the God spark and life within which will then return to God as Creator of life.

Ours today is the need to be aware of this power we have and that is vested upon us.
Free will
Cause and effect

And endless creation since it's inherent .
We're God's children.

We need to perceive this spirit of serpent which twists our view and sights , to accurately see what's going on so we can clearly choose a better way.
That's it.

By conscious choice against serpent's illusions and lies - we make a difference.
We take our power back and we take responsibility back.

And finally we teach the serpent spirit that God cannot be mocked and that serpent accepts effects of its choices, this will be eternal salvation to this spirit which became serpent.
God will deal with this spirit ultimately but our actions and choices will echo into eternity.

We will show that we are made of Love.

[heyokah]

Dear Beren,

I can come along with you as far as my intuition and reason can allow me.
So I can support you as far as this:

God as Creator of all that is encompasses all.
I mean everything that exist even duality of good and evil.

Duality is allowed to exist as a stage where soul goes though to experience aspects of existence.

Eventually soul outgrows need to dwell in duality dimensions.

God is totality of all that is and all that isn't since God is Creator ,an ultimate power of life.
Everything that came from God is part of God despite partial misunderstandings of those parts.

So even Satan or Dark enemy or evil itself is within God, since nothing can operate if God pulls out life force.
Question is WHY God allowed this?

Simply God is all powerful and all can be changed and altered or perfected. All.
Many things are beyond our understanding and maybe we currently cannot grasp this.

The need of life to grow and expresses itself is ever present driving force.
Evil was not directly created by God but by singular units of God - spirits ,souls and such.
God allowed them to create this vortex of energy loaded with negativity that became evil as we know it .

Since the first imperative of God is free will , by this it is allowed to each personification of God to perform free will and do as it so pleases.

Second thing is to set up the law of cause and effect.
You can do all that you want but for every choice there comes according effect.

Now some souls tried to play to avoid effect of their choices but this cannot be.
Hence we have evil.
Evil can be explained as eternal desire of avoidance the consequences that turned bad.

By constant effort of avoiding the consequence - you build up tangled web of choices with all of the effects they carry and thus you have a mess or chaos.
Also by constant strife against this primal law of God of cause and effect ,you waste your energy of life, your inner life spark of flame, thus you change your inner beauty into ugliness since you are devolving yourself of life force of original intent- beauty and love.

Hence we have demons and monsters in many forms - beings devoided of their inner beauty.

Remember they were once beautiful souls and spirits but their current self creation became ugly because of their previous choice ,some lasted eons...

Since everything exist in God continually ,this possibility of evil and duality of good and evil was a possibility of manifestation that eventually became alive.
We enacted it.

I mean we as souls and spirits of God.
By our free will we activated this reality and dimension in Universe.
Not just on Earth, whole universe.

But in God's reality this is a speck of existence, in the size of one atom Vs. whole Universe.

This is not an exaggeration but true portrait of who big is God, endless is a concept hardly imaginable by finite beings in body though their essence is endless.

As for the Garden of Eden and all the following concepts, I have to take my distance, as that is no part of my paradigm, having not been brought up with religion (and the Bible), as I told here before.

so I couldn't thank you for the whole comment as that would have been insincere.

Love and peace,
heyokah

[Beren]

As for the Garden of Eden and all the following concepts, I have to take my distance, as that is no part of my paradigm, having not been brought up with religion (and the Bible), as I told here before.

so I couldn't thank you for the whole comment as that would have been insincere.

Love and peace,
heyokah

My dear,

thank you for honesty . You have a good soul and spirit and you will make more beautiful things along the way of your life.
Don't worry about paradigms , they change all the time. Mine did.

But one thing never changes and it only grows- the Love and unity with God and Christ.
God's Love has liberated me from dogma, from religious traps and from people who speak in the name of God but do not carry the spirit of God which is spirit - holy spirit of Love.

Relationship with God I have ever since my first conscious thought , as long as I can remember I have this.

It's a lonely path but full or miracles along the way and eventually you see that you are not alone since in God we are all united.
God's Love passes all understanding and overgrow all that is since God is all powerful and ...


...I cannot write anymore ...



God just is ...

And I thank God for life ,love and possibilities of this endless game of life and Love with a big L.

My joy here is that I see that on this forum we outgrow our pride and ego's .Slowly but surely,
we expand and realize that we are all brothers and sisters and one in God.

This is a miracle of sorts.

[GCS1103]

Beren-

You are a gift to this forum.

[Billy]

http://www.maurobiglino.com/research.php

3.- The Elohim

The Elohim were not a "God" but a group of flesh and bones individuals. That they were flesh and bones individuals it is written with absolute clarity in the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible.
The meaning of Elohim is "The Shining Ones", "The Elevated Ones" or "The Powerful Ones".
The Elohim were certainly powerful but not omnipotent, they had advanced scientific knowledge and technology but they were not omniscient, they had an extended lifespan compared to humans but they were not Immortal, neither eternal.

If "God" is considered as a Spiritual, Transcendent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent, Eternal and Immortal Being, there is no trace of any such being within the original Masoretic text of the Bible.

4. - Yahweh was not a "God"

Mr. Biglino's findings reveal that Yahweh was simply one of this group of flesh and bones individuals called the Elohim.
In the Old Testament emerges clearly that Yahweh was himself a flesh and bones individual.
And Yahweh was not even one of the most powerful Elohim. On the opposite, he was one of the less important and less powerful of the Elohim.

Yahweh was given a poor land, and a people to rule which was at the time inexistent: he had to form it and to instruct them, to fight the enemies and to conquer lands.
At the time of Moses (around 1400 BCE) even the language of that people - the Hebrew language - was inexistent: Hebrew as a language was formed four centuries later, at the time of King David.

In Deuteronomy (32:8) it is written that the Elyon - who is the Highest, the leader of the Elohim - decided the allotment of the lands among the Elohim.
The Elyon assigned to Yahweh a people that was (Deut. 32:9-10):

"in a desert land, and in the howling waste of a wilderness"

Yahweh was assigned an unimportant people, which was scattered in a desert land, in a territory devoid of any value or interest.

The Bible tells (Genesis 10:25) that the division of the lands among the Elohim happened at the time of Peleg, who was the son of Eber, Sem’s great grandson.
While it is not easy to give a precise date, we could infer an approximate date between 3000 - 2500 BCE.

From history we know that at that time there were well developed civilizations, such as the Egyptians, the Sumerians and the ancient Indians. Yahweh was not assigned those people, those well developed civilizations and a fertile land, he was assigned a desert and barren land and a scattered, unimportant people.
This is clear evidence that Yahweh was one of the less important and less powerful of the Elohim.

5. - Even "God" dies.

In the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible it is written in clear words that even the Elohim die. (Psalm 82, 83)
(Elohim is translated as "God" in the modern Catholic and Protestant Bibles).

[Billy]

In 2008 a letter was sent to all the Bishops in the Catholic church. Intructing them to no longer use the name Yahweh when referring to God.

Why one wonders

http://www.uaar.it/news/2008/08/20/v...bolito-yahweh/

translation

According to recent Vatican rules, dating back to the end of June and contained in a letter to Bishops ' conferences on the name of God, the Hebrew name of God unpronounceable (represented by the Tetragrammaton "YHWH") can no longer be used in the prayers and in the liturgy, given that just fits the divine nature of Christ established by Catholicism. In fact, reassuring the Vatican authorities, to ensure that "the word of God, written in sacred texts, can be stored and transmitted in full and faithful way, every modern translation of the book of the Bible aims to be a faithful and accurate transposition of the original texts".

It seems that in recent years become increasingly tended to use foot the Hebrew word for God, which will hurt the Vatican authorities, which resulted "In liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers in the name of God in the form of the Tetragrammaton" YHWH is not to use nor to pronounce ". For Bible translation the Tetragrammaton should be made with other expressions, such as "Lord, Lord, Segingeur, Herr, Senor. This linguistic change, seemingly piddly, fits into the overall design of Benedict XVI to return to a strict tradition and a reaffirmation of the centrality of the Church institution.

[RedeZra]

God is not found in meditation

but in prayer and praises


if we want to go blank

then spirits will soon fill the space

and take over the body


it might not be as extreme as the exorcist

as demons are not necessarily evil

some are sweet and subtle


seducing spirits possess people

and so impart their will and wisdom

unto the world

through those possessed


this is what i think has been going on for a long time

in India and elsewhere


sages possessed by sweet seducing spirits

whose mission it is to twist truths

and proclaim doctrines of demons


like reincarnation and karma

instead of Resurrection and Divine justice


it is not possible to integrate these two doctrines


there cannot be both reincarnation and resurrection

nor karma and Divine justice at the same time


so one or both is wrong

[heyokah]

Intermezzo

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZxxHbJGbY

[observer]

This debate is exhausting me.

I work an extremely physical job in the marine construction industry, currently six days a week. I'm off today only due to the intense heat on the East Coast. I should be taking a nap, but I cannot due to this particular issue in this debate. A point, that seems to me, few of the members commenting in this thread are willing to even look at.

Many of you have had personal experiences that have led you to your 'witnessing', here in this thread, that the Bible was the reason you have been "filled with the holy spirit".

Illness, addiction, personal pursuit, a feeling of guilt, or fear, the warm and fuzzy feeling you get from your faith.... I'm sure the list could be endless. It is not my intention to call any of your personal experiences into question.... they are each, individually, personal to your life experience.

My debate in this thread is with the concept that this book.... The Bible.... is actually the Word of God. I could go-on with endless evidence to show this is not the case. I will pursue this point no longer. I have suggested the evidence to validate this understanding until the point is now a moot issue.

The Bible is undeniably the Word of Man, not the Word of God.

It has been consistently my interpretation - an interpretation among very few entities, either living or deceits - that this book.... The Bible.... was the manipulation of man's interpretations, through the cleverly designed process of telepathic thought. This is the justification for my insistence that one CAN NOT use the words of the text to make a data point within their counter argument to my debate.

Is it so unreasonable to even give consideration to this possibility? Think about it.

Where's the evidence to prove the entities who influenced the Bible weren't the same as the Anunnaki of the Sumerians.... or, the Archons of the Nazarene Essenes.... or, the Rex Mundi of the Cathar....or, the benevolent space brothers of the New Age channelers?

What evidence, other than the cleverly manipulated text of the Bible, can you point to prove what I a proposing is not one possible interpretation of the History of Humanity?

It is my interpretation that all these phenomenon - throughout the history of Yahwist religion - has been exactly the same phenomenon.

Without going into the words of this corrupted text, show me evidence that this conclusion is any less informed than any of the personal testimonies one can find throughout the pages of this thread.

All of these testimonies are based on faith.

The interpretation I'm offering is based on evidence.

We now get to the one point of this, my final comment on the matter.

Under who's authority does any Trinity Christian claim the right to lead millions of souls into what could - quite possibly - be a trap set by a gaggle of cold blooded reptiles?....a trap designed to keep one's soul imprisoned within an a$$-biting loop of birth-death-rebirth.

By what right do any of you fundamentalists Christians stand on a soap box and make the claim that you speak the Word of God, and it is because of your faith that you have the right to lead the unsuspecting deeper into the matrix of control?

They are very clever at what they do....

I will now take a sabbatical from commenting within this thread.
My energies are much too valuable for me to be wasting on "ears that will not hear"

[RedeZra]

Posted by billyji (here)
http://www.maurobiglino.com/research.php

3.- The Elohim

The Elohim were not a "God" but a group of flesh and bones individuals. That they were flesh and bones individuals it is written with absolute clarity in the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible.
The meaning of Elohim is "The Shining Ones", "The Elevated Ones" or "The Powerful Ones".

there is an orchestra of angels or divine beings or gods

who are all spirits


God is also Spirit


elohim does not denote flesh and bone but Spirit (God) spirits (gods) or spirit (god) depending on the verb in the verse


there is a Divine council in Heaven where Yahweh is the Most high

or God the Creator


all the angels spirits or gods are created by Yahweh or God

[RedeZra]

Posted by observer (here)

The Bible is undeniably the Word of Man, not the Word of God.

i have come to the conclusion

that everything else but the Bible

are the works and words of lying spirits and men


so the only valid Word of God is Christ on the Cross

and He is alive and well

protecting His souls and story


the fallen angels have given us a thousand theories

but Jesus is the Truth


Yahweh is Salvation

[Haletom]

I have lived a normal life (just believing in some type of a higher power) up until 5 years ago. Then the light bulb went off and now I can say that the Bible is the one true book for me to live by. I do believe in Jesus Christ as our savior and that he died for our sins. I am now 49 years old and it took me all my life to finally realize this. But now that I do, my life has change dramatically for the better....because I am living for God, not me anymore. I died to myself. My marriage and relationships are so much better now! Yes Jesus Christ is the truth..and the words of the bible are from God (yes written by man) but only through God.

[ulli]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
God is not found in meditation

but in prayer and praises


if we want to go blank

then spirits will soon fill the space

and take over the body


it might not be as extreme as the exorcist

as demons are not necessarily evil

some are sweet and subtile


seducing spirits possess people

and so impart their will and wisdom

unto the world

through those possessed


this is what i think has been going on for a long time

in India and elsewhere


sages possessed by sweet seducing spirits

whose mission it is to twist truths

and proclaim doctrines of demons


like reincarnation and karma

instead of Resurrection and Divine justice


it is not possible to integrate these two doctrines


there cannot be both reincarnation and ressurection

nor karma and Divine justice at the same time


one or both is wrong

I agree with most of your post here, except for the integration part. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

I have integrated the two. Of course there was some effort involved.
Years and years of being the wandering seeker.
The key issue here is one's understanding of time.
What happened in the past does not have to be repeated in the future.
Denying all religions in favor of Christianity will never lead to a better world.
So how to be a follower of Christ and still respect the other teachings? by focusing on the similarities between all.

So the law of Karma is the same as the law of
"Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Also, having many past lives doesn't mean that reincarnation has to continue forever...

The possibility of escape from the eternal repeat pattern IS possible,
provided one lives according to higher teachings.

Even Buddhism advocates this although one rarely hears Buddhists talk about the possibility of never returning.

Prayer and worship of the divine is simply taking the saying
"Where focus goes, energy flows" to it's ultimate logical conclusion,
focus and worship God.
Nothing that is better than God exists. God is the absolute, the Highest, the only Perfection.

God says: O Son of Spirit! Love Me, that I shall love thee...
if thou loves me not, my love can in no wise reach thee.
~Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah
(can be googled).

If someone has been in prison for a long time he forgets that tunneling is still an option.
So in a similar vein the non-reincarnation OPION is not even questioned by some Hindus and Buddhists,
even though the original teachings advocated such an option.

[RedeZra]

Posted by ulli (here)

I agree with most of your post here, except for the integration part. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

I have integrated the two. Of course there was some effort involved.
Years and years of being the wandering seeker.
The key issue here is one's understanding of time.
What happened in the past does not have to be repeated in the future.
Denying all religions in favor of Christianity will never lead to a better world.
So how to be a follower of Christ and still respect the other teachings? by focusing on the similarities between all.

hi Ulli


since i believe the Bible

then i believe


we only got this one life


to do good and right

with what little light

God has given us


i don't think we get a second life to fix our mistakes so to speak

[ulli]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by ulli (here)

I agree with most of your post here, except for the integration part. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

I have integrated the two. Of course there was some effort involved.
Years and years of being the wandering seeker.
The key issue here is one's understanding of time.
What happened in the past does not have to be repeated in the future.
Denying all religions in favor of Christianity will never lead to a better world.
So how to be a follower of Christ and still respect the other teachings? by focusing on the similarities between all.

hi Ulli


since i believe the Bible

then i believe


we only got this one life


to do good and right

with what little light

God has given us


i don't think we get a second life to fix our mistakes so to speak

I agree.
Unless we wish for it. God grants wishes.
The question is why do so many people wish for repeating something that is as limiting as being stuck in a physical body
when they could instead have wings and fly around the endless worlds of God?

The idea of reincarnating in order to become more and more perfect is not mine either,
especially as I have never seen a perfect being. Hence the idea of forgiveness and God's Mercy rather than Justice appeals to me far more.

But I have seen too many Christians rest on those laurels, taking mercy and forgiveness for granted,
while at the same time constantly breaking the ten commandments.
Until they voluntarily open their eyes to themselves not much one can do about that.

[RedeZra]

Posted by ulli (here)
But I have seen too many Christians rest on those laurels, taking mercy and forgiveness for granted,
while at the same time constantly breaking the ten commandments.
Until they voluntarily open their eyes to themselves not much one can do about that.

Christ did not give Christians licence to sin

so i don't know what they are thinking


if only they had a little fear of God in them

then they would think twice before breaking His laws

[Unified Serenity]

I think it is pointless to argue whether man or God wrote the bible. We cannot set God on a table, and much of what is believed is by faith. That being said, we are told in the bible that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. There is a difference though in the use of the word "Word". Sometimes it is logos or rhema in the Greek. One is the actual written word and one is the Holy Spirit inspired word. Both are applicable, but you cannot prove when you experience a Rhema. Often it's while reading the logos that rhema is experienced. You've read the text a thousand times before and suddenly it goes from it's milk meaning in your heart to a much deeper meaning and understanding which we would call MEAT. I had that one day in reading in the book of Acts. It was a great moment. It revolved around the one who fell asleep while sitting in a window sill. They fell out of the window possibly covered with some lattice. There is a huge significance to this story for me.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Act 20:12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.

This to me points to not becoming weary in the late hours as the disciples were warned over and over by Jesus to remain awake with oil in their lamps. There are some clues in the Greek as well.

Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus,G2161 being fallen into a deep sleep:G5258 and as Paul was long preaching,he sunk downG2702 withG575 sleep,G5258 and fell down fromG575 the third loft, andG2532 was taken up G142 dead.
Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his lifeG5590 is in him.

I know this is a lot of Greek to look at, but this is how I find the gems hidden in the word. Let's go from each Greek word and see if a deeper meaning becomes apparent in these two verses:

The young mans name is Eutychus

G2161
Εὔτυχος
Eutuchos
yoo'-too-khos
From G2095 and a derivative of G5177; well fated, that is, fortunate; Eutychus, a young man: - Eutychus.

For me, this man symbolizes the young believer in Yeshua. He is well fated and fortunate. But, what did Yeshua warn the disciples of for the virgin not to fall asleep, right? Virgin denotes someone who is young usually.

[QUOTE]Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus,G2161 being fallen into a deepG901 sleep:G5258 and as Paul was long preaching,he sunk downG2702 withG575 sleep,G5258 and fell down fromG575 the third loft, anG2532d was taken up G142 dead.
Act 20:10 AndG1161 Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his lifeG5590 is in him.


Then we see he has fallen into a deep sleep due to Pauls long preaching and later we learn it was midnight, and if you read verse 8 you see there were many lights in the chamber so more than likely it was hot with all those people and lights. What about the words deep sleep though

G901
βαθύς
bathus
bath-oos'
From the base of G939; profound (as going down), literally or figuratively: - deep, very early.

G5258
ὕπνος
hupnos
hoop'-nos
From an obsolete primary (perhaps akin to G5259 through the idea of subsilience); sleep, that is, (figuratively) spiritual torpor: - sleep.

Deep seems to indicate to me that he fell early before the right time into a spiritual torpor. I had to look up torpor just to be sure of what it meant, and my online dictionary says

tor·por (tôrpr)
n.
1. A state of mental or physical inactivity or insensibility.
2. Lethargy; apathy. See Synonyms at lethargy.
3. The dormant, inactive state of a hibernating or estivating animal.

So, the young man cannot remain awake in the late hour (hour of the anti-Christ) becomes insensitive and is apathetic and falls into a spiritual sleep.

Verse 9 continues to say Paul was long in preaching and the young man sunk down and that is our next interesting word, "down"

G2702
καταφέρω
katapherō
kat-af-er'-o
From G2596 and G5342 (including its alternate); to bear down, that is, (figuratively) overcome (with drowsiness); specifically to cast a vote: - fall, give, sink down.

Here we see it's not just settling its as if there is a struggle where one is pressed down and overcome and look at that other aspect of casting a vote. That is about choosing and we are warned a false one will come and except those days be cut short the deception or pressing against the truth by the evil one, even the very elect chosen from the foundation of the world would not make it. But, the days are cut short, and they will make it!

So, the young man falls from the third loft. I cannot recall where I got the imagery of the window having lattice except maybe it's my knowledge of the middle east and ancient home structures that they would often put lattice up for privacy. So, the young man may have felt safe sitting in the window with this lattice and in his comfort (knowledge of salvation in Yeshua, he became lethargic and fell into the lies of deception and appeared as dead spiritually).

Let's see verse 9 again

Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

Such a simple word "and", but it's not the same and all the time. This time is is G2532 in the Strong's Concordance and mean

G2532
καί
kai
kahee
Apparently a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so, then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words: - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, moreover, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yea, yet.


That word taken is G142

G142
αἴρω
airō
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

This young one is taken by the anti-Christ. Made to doubt and put away the truth he has known. We are warned in Matthew 24 about those taken over by the anti-Christ. Two are in the field working one is taken and one is left. Some Christians who believe in the rapture doctrine will say, "Praise God, I hope I am taken", No they don't, for they will be taken by the false one playing Yeshua / husband, and that is why we are warned to pray our flight not be in winter or that we are not pregnant or nursing, why? Because it's figurative. The harvest time is summer not winter. If you are taken in winter, you are harvested out of season. If you are pregnant and nursing a child when your true husband Yeshua comes, then whose baby figuratively / spiritually are you carring and nursing along? Why, the anti-Christ who is pretending to be Yeshua! Notice they run to Yeshua on the seventh trump crying "Lord Lord, we preached in your name, cast out demons and healed in your name" and Yeshua says, "Get away from me you workers of iniquity, I never KNEW you".

Have you ever talked about the use of the word "knew" in the New Testament? To biblically know someone is a polite way to say, have sexual intercourse. Let's compare to sections of the bible and see if what I say is true:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knewG1097 you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25 And knewG1097her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

G1097
γινώσκω
ginōskō
ghin-oce'-ko
A prolonged form of a primary verb; to “know” (absolutely), in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as shown at left, with others not thus clearly expressed): - allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) known (-ledge), perceive, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

Two simple words, "and" followed by "Taken" and we see exactly what Yeshua was warning of elsewhere in scripture! Not only that, they fly away! Fly away with whom? Why the anti-Christ by believing lies, false teachers, and made up doctrines like the rapture. God even makes fun of that teaching in Ezekiel:

Eze 13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
Eze 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

So, we see the images coming in a simple verse in Acts 20. Some can read over that passage over and over and then one day a light bulb, Rhema understanding comes as if driving a point home.

It's late at night, it's hot and the young man feels secure and he falls out of a window appearing dead. let's see what other gems are in that example. I mean they could have put lots of things in the bible, but why this passage? Could it be something for the deeper student to pick up on, but only revealed if you study it more deeply?


Let's look at verse 10 now with the significant words and their Greek numbers in the Strong's Concordance:

Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his lifeG5590 is in him.

We are told Paul goes down and embraces the youth (I suggest reading my early stuff here on Paul to see what I think of him based on the bible. It's not a popular viewpoint, I can say that) and we see his life is in him. What of that word life

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

He is not spiritually dead. He has breath in him. He rises and returns to the room where we read

Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
Act 20:12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.

He is raised up which is figurative of the 7th trump where all the spiritually dead are raised not just believers, but all the dead and alive are changed and given new bodies for the millennial day of the Lord. The evil one we know is locked up 1000 years and what of this bread he is eating. The word of God is spoken of as bread. Jesus broke the bread and said it was his body. Jesus is the word made flesh. We are told elsewhere that the famine of the last days is not for bread, but for hearing the word of the Lord. We are also told that in the millenium the truth will be taught without the lies of the evil one. So, this one who fell to the anti-Christ has a 1000 years to get the truth down right. It comforted those who did not fall asleep to know this one is alive again and learning truth.

All of that hidden in these simple three verses:

Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
Act 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Act 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.