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Thread: The Bible

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    I think it is pointless to argue whether man or God wrote the bible.

    i agree

    men filled with the Word of God wrote the Bible

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    I think it is pointless to argue whether man or God wrote the bible.

    i agree

    men filled with the Word of God wrote the Bible
    Sure Red but God gave free will did He not?
    The evidence that the Bible was "altered" is overwhelming--- men using their will to control others.
    Where would you hide the Devil?
    Somewhere that you would never think of looking.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Be still and know that I am God--- is not praying

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    I think it is pointless to argue whether man or God wrote the bible.

    i agree

    men filled with the Word of God wrote the Bible

    The evidence that the Bible was "altered" is overwhelming--- men using their will to control others.

    i disagree Chris


    the ptb and their alternative agents are trying to plant evidence against the Bible

    and so the control over people are done by the enemies of God and all that is good


    God gave us free will to follow His way or the ways of this world

    where the devil is the prince


    the ptb take their orders from fallen angels

    and that is why the world is wicked

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    Serbia Avalon Member Beren's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    I think it is pointless to argue whether man or God wrote the bible.

    i agree

    men filled with the Word of God wrote the Bible
    Sure Red but God gave free will did He not?
    The evidence that the Bible was "altered" is overwhelming--- men using their will to control others.
    Where would you hide the Devil?
    Somewhere that you would never think of looking.

    Chris
    And to add and circle this here, men altered in various translations but the core is intact.
    It`s just that you need a heart willing to dig deep and holy spirit to understand.
    Otherwise it`s a dead letter on the paper.

    Last verses from revelation says a lot;
    18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to this, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book. 19 If anyone takes away any words from this book of prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book.






    People were constantly adding and taking out words of God throughout history.
    No wonder about the warning which BTW few listened.


    It also shows the cause and effect law- of you add ,I will add you, if you cut -I will cut off from you.
    So God is actually respecting free will here by allowing our choices to be but nevertheless warns us to be wiser.
    Love, love - and see what happens

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Be still and know that I am God--- is not praying

    Chris
    in times of trouble

    we are not still

    but call on Him

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    Default Re: The Bible

    I think its possible to have things back to front in other words a false premise.
    We are not human beings having the occasional spiritual experience.
    We are spirit having a full on human experience--- we are consciousness.
    In order for this to seem to be real we have to forget what we really are.

    If the Bible does it for you great--- With little knowledge of the Bible God does it for me as testified to in a previous post.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Truth is no one needs Bible to be one with God.
    But Bible is a good tool for stages of development.
    Eventually one stops needing a Bible to talk to God and learn from him...

    Here in this thread I think there is a struggle of those who would burn the Bible and those who would cherish it.

    I am for respecting God`s tools and they are manifold.
    Bible is one of them and is God`s word.

    But everything also is God`s word since man made it.
    Sounds like dichotomy but it`s true.

    "Ye are gods" lives a new meaning here...

    Everything that we do in life is an act of God since God experience all that we ever do by invisible connection that he has with creation.
    We yet have to grasp all this.

    Hence God`s eternal advices to seek wisdom and to love ,for then the experience for God and us is supreme.
    Otherwise is lacking of substance if it deal with evil or ego.
    Love, love - and see what happens

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    United States Avalon Member kreagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    observer,


    Whether you realize it or not,......you are "tripping yourself up" with your logic/reasoning. You seem to "only" want to,......"play by YOUR rules"!!

    Quote The Bible is undeniably the Word of Man, not the Word of God.

    It has been consistently my interpretation - an interpretation among very few entities, either living or deceits - that this book.... The Bible.... was the manipulation of man's interpretations, through the cleverly designed process of telepathic thought. This is the justification for my insistence that one CAN NOT use the words of the text to make a data point within their counter argument to my debate.

    Is it so unreasonable to even give consideration to this possibility? Think about it.

    observer,....you need to "Think about it",....yourself!

    You seem to, obviously, want to "play by your rules",....only! Your "findings" seem to be the "only ones allowed" in this "debate" you are waging. When anyone "engages you" with Scriptural "facts",.....you scream......"foul", that's not fair,...you can't do that!"


    Herein is the absurdity in "your stance,...and claim", that the Bible is not God's Word,......but man's word.


    "Mankind",.....in his "wildest imagination",....and on his "best day",.....COULD NOT POSSIBLY,.....come up with, and write, such a "Work of Art and Inspiration",....by himself! History has even proven that "if" this were merely the writings, only,.....of man,......the Bible would have "disappeared completely" from the face of this planet,....thousands of years ago. Why hasn't It already done that? It's because the Bible is,......anointed,.....Holy,......God inspired,....and protected. Church history is also replete with multitudes, upon multitudes, of accounts of "healings and miracles",....(that I,...kreagle,....have also witnessed)! (note: "This is NOT at the...."hand of man",....that these healings/miracles occurred,.....but.....at the "Hand of God"!) Again,....we are told in the Word of God that "this would happen"!

    The "awesome accuracy" of the Scriptures are another "clear indicator" that "mankind, alone",......could NEVER have written the Bible on his "own merits"! As I've pointed out to you, in detail,....on this same "thread",....mankind has enough problems trying to make "FACTS", (that we try to live by),... stick for more than a decade before they have to be "revised and updated". This glaring "fact about mankind" pretty much totally eliminates him from possibly being the "lone author" of the Bible.

    No,....the Bible,.....did indeed,....originate and came from "our God"!


    2 Peter 1:20-21
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.



    Now,.....there I go, again,.....violating "your rules"!


    observer,......"you"....."don't rule"!,..........God does!!!!


    Your friend,.....and servant,.......kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    We are not human beings having the occasional spiritual experience.
    We are spirit having a full on human experience--- we are consciousness.
    In order for this to seem to be real we have to forget what we really are.

    i don't think i existed before God made and planted me in my mother's womb

    but i am aspiring to an eternal life as spirit

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by Beren (here)
    Truth is no one needs Bible to be one with God.
    But Bible is a good tool for stages of development.
    Eventually one stops needing a Bible to talk to God and learn from him...

    Scripture can become a stumbling block

    just ask the Pharisees


    the devil knows and quotes the Bible

    but the Apostles were not guided by the written words


    they got the Holy spirit to help them establish the Way


    For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: - Act 15:28


    so we want the Holy spirit whom Jesus sends

    and not just bible knowledge

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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by Beren (here)
    Truth is no one needs Bible to be one with God.
    But Bible is a good tool for stages of development.
    Eventually one stops needing a Bible to talk to God and learn from him...

    Scripture can become a stumbling block

    just ask the Pharisees


    the devil knows and quotes the Bible

    but the Apostles were not guided by the written words


    they got the Holy spirit to help them establish the Way


    For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: - Act 15:28


    so we want the Holy spirit whom Jesus sends

    and not just bible knowledge
    Exactly!

    Main purpose of all God`s tools is to draw people towards him then a need for tool stops.
    Love, love - and see what happens

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    Avalon Member truthseekerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    God is not found in meditation

    but in prayer and praises ...
    Worship and Fear

    Would you like your children to worship you? Would you like your children to worship your pictures, your statues, building altars for you, rather than recognizing who you really are and appreciating what you are doing?

    Would such a worship satisfy you? WHY NOT?

    Please think very carefully WHY such an activity appears to be a pure nonsense. Try to find a logical REASON for it to appear as nonsense. Examine your feelings.

    How would you FEEL if your children decided to worship your statues and praying to your pictures? Would you feel satisfied? Why not? Would your intellect and intelligence be satisfied? Wouldn’t you feel deeply disappointed that your children cannot come up with anything more intelligent?

    Worshipping is clearly disappointing, unpleasant and even annoying for anyone intelligent enough to comprehend all associated feelings. And that of course includes The Great Intellect (Source).

    We have to conclude, that:

    Worshipping anyone or anything doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Worship of any kind is the evidence of a complete ignorance.

    Of course, you knew it to start with -- did you not? Incidentally, isn’t it the very essence of the First and most important “commandment” in the Bible? (Exodus 20:3-4 & 20:23)
    Do you see how perverted it has become today? Do you see how neglecting this single logical advice created conditions for primitive cults and dangerous idolatry?

    So WHY do so many people on Earth engage in all sorts of worship?

    Worshipping can occur only when we suppress and actively sabotage the individual intellect. One of the most effective ways of suppressing and sabotaging intellect is inducing FEAR. Anyone who is truly scared has great difficulties to think logically -- is that not so?

    Isn’t it a coincidence that people who engage in worshipping are also deeply scared?
    Isn’t it a coincidence that promoting FEAR is a key method to maintain and control a flock of worshippers? But fear is a conscious feeling of the Individual Intellect, that is experienced Individually. We can consciously experience fear ONLY if we ALLOW it ourselves.

    If someone tried to scare you saying that “God will punish you if you don’t do this-and-that” -- would you feel scared? Notice, that you would feel scared ONLY if you BELIEVED the possibility YOURSELF and ONLY if your intellect was incapable of imagining other possibilities and solutions.

    Would you feel scared if you KNEW that the person had no idea whatsoever about the subject matter?

    In summary, conscious FEAR is a result of the Individual Intellect choosing to limit ITSELF.

    Is there ANYTHING in the Universe at all that we should be afraid of? Do you remember The Purpose? Do you remember WHO you are and WHAT is your potential? What do you think?

    The only limit we may ever experience in the Universe -- is the one that we impose ourselves.

    Love & Blessings to all
    Unity Consciousness
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: The Bible

    truthseekerdan,

    Most, if not all, of your "concerns" over........"who to worship",....."why to worship",.....would clear up, "if",.....you remove the "human factor" and realize "Who" you are ultimately dealing with.


    Quote Would you like your children to worship you? Would you like your children to worship your pictures, your statues, building altars for you, rather than recognizing who you really are and appreciating what you are doing?

    Would such a worship satisfy you? WHY NOT?

    The "obvious" response to the question you have proposed, here,......is "no"! Of course, in the way you have your question worded,.....one would have to "make themselves to be God",.....in order to receive this "worship" that you are speaking of. As much as we "all" love and cherish our children,....( and I, kreagle, have "three"),.....I can, and could, never be God for them,....or place myself in a position to be so! You see, truthseekerdan,....worship belongs "exclusively to God",......."always"! The very moment that anyone of "us" redirects worship in "any other direction", other than God, alone,......then "we" have allowed "worship to get completely "off track" which inevitably results in disastrous results.


    1 Chronicles 16:27-29
    King James Version (KJV)

    27 Glory and honour are in his presence; strength and gladness are in his place.

    28 Give unto the Lord, ye kindreds of the people, give unto the Lord glory and strength.

    29 Give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness.




    Quote Worshipping anyone or anything doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Worship of any kind is the evidence of a complete ignorance.

    On the contrary, my dear friend. It makes "complete sense" and opens up a "whole new horizon" to those who become "spiritually enlightened"!


    As I pointed out on a very, very "recent post",......WORSHIP IS NOT A ONE WAY EVENT!

    When the "Spirit-filled" believer worships "Him",....GOD PARTICIPATES, ALSO!!

    (note: It's during these "two-way" worshipping events that something "glorious and miraculous" occurs. We "both" get to "hug each other"!!! Because of the "extreme love" that the "WORSHIP-(EE)", is experiencing and feeling, He/She is able to genuinely "make a connection" with God and you become "spiritually energized" beyond "human understanding". As for the "WORSHIP-(OR)",...we understand that He has been "seeking this type of relationship from the very beginning"! It's moments like "these", for Him, that make Calvary worth everything that He had to pay!!!)


    Notice what the following passage has to say about this.........


    John 4:23-24
    King James Version (KJV)

    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



    truthseekerday,.....the "infilling of the Holy Ghost" is so instrumental, on so many levels in our lives,....and "this passage" reveals, just one of those, "very important" reasons. With the Holy Ghost,....resident in your life,.....you, as a believer,.....will fully understand "worship" and the "significant role" it will play in the development of your Christian experience,.....and consequently Christian "existence"!
    Without the Holy Ghost experience,....you'll wind up with only a "head knowledge" of God,......instead of a "heart knowledge" of God. You'll never be "quite able" to completely figure out the true "spiritual aspects" and applications of His Word without the indwelling of the Holy Ghost,....resident in your life!


    Don't go around scratching your head, for the rest of your life, saying,....."How is this so?"


    With God,....."all" things are possible!!

    The "infilling of the Holy Ghost" is available to "everyone" today!


    Acts 2:37-39
    King James Version (KJV)

    37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.



    "Worship" is Heaven's energizer,......"if" we will "all" just plug in!!!


    Love and Peace,..........kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  24. Link to Post #1535
    Scotland Moderator Billy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by billyji (here)
    http://www.maurobiglino.com/research.php

    3.- The Elohim

    The Elohim were not a "God" but a group of flesh and bones individuals. That they were flesh and bones individuals it is written with absolute clarity in the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible.
    The meaning of Elohim is "The Shining Ones", "The Elevated Ones" or "The Powerful Ones".


    there is an orchestra of angels or divine beings or gods

    who are all spirits


    God is also Spirit


    elohim does not denote flesh and bone but Spirit (God) spirits (gods) or spirit (god) depending on the verb in the verse


    there is a Divine council in Heaven where Yahweh is the Most high

    or God the Creator


    all the angels spirits or gods are created by Yahweh or God
    That is not what it says in the Bible Red. Read again using the references this time instead of making things up.

    Psalms 82
    The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
    They walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

    6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.’
    7 But you will die like mere mortals;
    you will fall like every other ruler.”


    Quote Posted by billyji (here)
    http://www.maurobiglino.com/research.php

    3.- The Elohim

    The Elohim were not a "God" but a group of flesh and bones individuals. That they were flesh and bones individuals it is written with absolute clarity in the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible.
    The meaning of Elohim is "The Shining Ones", "The Elevated Ones" or "The Powerful Ones".
    The Elohim were certainly powerful but not omnipotent, they had advanced scientific knowledge and technology but they were not omniscient, they had an extended lifespan compared to humans but they were not Immortal, neither eternal.

    If "God" is considered as a Spiritual, Transcendent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent, Eternal and Immortal Being, there is no trace of any such being within the original Masoretic text of the Bible.

    4. - Yahweh was not a "God"

    Mr. Biglino's findings reveal that Yahweh was simply one of this group of flesh and bones individuals called the Elohim.
    In the Old Testament emerges clearly that Yahweh was himself a flesh and bones individual.
    And Yahweh was not even one of the most powerful Elohim. On the opposite, he was one of the less important and less powerful of the Elohim.

    Yahweh was given a poor land, and a people to rule which was at the time inexistent: he had to form it and to instruct them, to fight the enemies and to conquer lands.
    At the time of Moses (around 1400 BCE) even the language of that people - the Hebrew language - was inexistent: Hebrew as a language was formed four centuries later, at the time of King David.

    In Deuteronomy (32:8) it is written that the Elyon - who is the Highest, the leader of the Elohim - decided the allotment of the lands among the Elohim.
    The Elyon assigned to Yahweh a people that was (Deut. 32:9-10):

    "in a desert land, and in the howling waste of a wilderness"

    Yahweh was assigned an unimportant people, which was scattered in a desert land, in a territory devoid of any value or interest.

    The Bible tells (Genesis 10:25) that the division of the lands among the Elohim happened at the time of Peleg, who was the son of Eber, Sem’s great grandson.
    While it is not easy to give a precise date, we could infer an approximate date between 3000 - 2500 BCE.

    From history we know that at that time there were well developed civilizations, such as the Egyptians, the Sumerians and the ancient Indians. Yahweh was not assigned those people, those well developed civilizations and a fertile land, he was assigned a desert and barren land and a scattered, unimportant people.
    This is clear evidence that Yahweh was one of the less important and less powerful of the Elohim.

    5. - Even "God" dies.

    In the original Hebrew Masoretic text of the Bible it is written in clear words that even the Elohim die. (Psalm 82, 83)
    (Elohim is translated as "God" in the modern Catholic and Protestant Bibles).
    Last edited by Billy; 19th July 2012 at 09:47.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

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    Default Re: The Bible

    ****


    Talking about "Work of Art and Inspiration",.... by man....


    ****



    Rumi

    Perhaps the most popular and most influential poet in the West for the past several decades, is the thirteenth-century Persian Sufi from what is now Afghanistan, Jallaludin Rumi.

    Rumi and his teachings on Sufism, the fruit of a markedly advanced Persian and Islamic culture at a time when Europe was still mired in its Dark Ages, is remarkable by any standard - poetically, artistically, scientifically, philosophically and metaphysically.

    While elements of fundamentalist and evangelistic Christianity in the West, particularly in the United States, cling blindly to an exclusivity and blind faith that denies the legitimacy of all other religions and the findings of modern science, 750-or-so odd years ago, Rumi swept aside such false controversies in language that, even in translation, is both striking and startling.

    Taken from "The Way of the Sufi," by the great Sufi teacher and scholar, Idries Shah, the following excerpts from Rumi's vast works, both poetry and prose, show how far ahead of his times, and perhaps ours, the great Sufi poet was.

    ****

    Rumi on Religion:


    I AM THE LIFE OF MY BELOVED


    from: Spiritual..... But Not Religious




    What can I do Muslims? I do not know myself.

    I am no Christian, no Jew, no Magian, no Mussulman.

    Not of the East, not of the West. Not of the land, not of the sea.

    Not of the Mine of Nature, not of the circling heavens,

    Not of earth, not of water, not of air, not of fire;

    Not of the throne, not of the ground, of existence, of being;

    Not of India, China, Bulgaria, Saqseen;

    Not of the kingdom of the Iraqs, or of Khorasan;

    Not of this world or the next: of heaven or hell;

    Not of Adam, Eve, the garden of Paradise or Eden;

    My place placeless, my trace traceless.

    Neither body nor soul: all is the life of my Beloved . . .



    http://spiritualnotreligious.blogspo...d-science.html


    ****

    Love and peace to all and everything.
    Last edited by heyokah; 19th July 2012 at 10:14.

  26. Link to Post #1537
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    God is not found in meditation

    but in prayer and praises ...

    Would you like your children to worship you?

    i think the Maker of this universe and us in it

    is worthy of worship

  27. Link to Post #1538
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by billyji (here)
    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    elohim does not denote flesh and bone but Spirit (God) spirits (gods) or spirit (god) depending on the verb in the verse
    That is not what it says in the Bible Red. Read again using the references this time instead of making things up.

    Psalms 82
    The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
    They walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

    6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.’
    7 But you will die like mere mortals;
    you will fall like every other ruler.”


    the gods or elohim in Psalm 82 are not mere men

    but fallen angels who rule the nations


    Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? - 1 Cor 6:3

  28. Link to Post #1539
    Scotland Moderator Billy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Bible

    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    Quote Posted by billyji (here)
    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    elohim does not denote flesh and bone but Spirit (God) spirits (gods) or spirit (god) depending on the verb in the verse
    That is not what it says in the Bible Red. Read again using the references this time instead of making things up.

    Psalms 82
    The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
    They walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

    6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.’
    7 But you will die like mere mortals;
    you will fall like every other ruler.”


    the gods or elohim in Psalm 82 are not mere men

    but fallen angels who rule the nations


    Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? - 1 Cor 6:3
    Exactly Red, And Yahweh was one of them.
    When you express from a fearful heart in the now moment, You create a fearful future.
    When you express from a loving heart in the now moment, You create a loving future.

    Have no fear, Be aware and live your lives journey from a compassionate caring nurturing heart to manifest a compassionate caring nurturing future. Billyji


    Peace

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Billy For This Post:

    heyokah (19th July 2012)

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    Default Re: The Bible

    God is available to all

    as it is not about religion but relationship


    God is not a Christian nor a Muslim Buddhist or Hindu not even a Jew


    Christian is just a term for those who follow the teachings of Christ

    as Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammad

    and Buddhists the teachings of Buddha


    when these teachings diverge

    then the words of the Word of God

    or Jesus Christ ought to take precedence

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