Almost a Total Surface Ice Melt in Greenland in 4 Days

[Referee]

The jet stream is doing very odd things. The northern lattitudes are having record melts. What is the cause HAARP? Magnetosphere irregularities? What is your take?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=d3CSUb6eQXc

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=YFFELWETs8g

[Bill Ryan]

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This may be important.

Here's the report from NASA: http://nasa.gov/topics/earth/feature...land-melt.html

As far as I can see, this does not mean that the ice has disappeared! It means the surface ice, on very thick glaciation, seems to be suddenly melting. It indicates a very abrupt change that must have sent many scientists running to look again at their climate change models.

Extent of surface melt over Greenland’s ice sheet on July 8 (left) and July 12 (right).

Measurements from three satellites showed that on July 8, about 40 percent of the ice sheet had undergone thawing at or near the surface. In just a few days, the melting had dramatically accelerated and an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface had thawed by July 12.

In the image, the areas classified as “probable melt” (light pink) correspond to those sites where at least one satellite detected surface melting. The areas classified as “melt” (dark pink) correspond to sites where two or three satellites detected surface melting. The satellites are measuring different physical properties at different scales and are passing over Greenland at different times. As a whole, they provide a picture of an extreme melt event about which scientists are very confident.

Credit: Nicolo E. DiGirolamo, SSAI/NASA GSFC, and Jesse Allen, NASA Earth Observatory

[Cartomancer]

It seems like it is a record breaking summer for heat up here and everywhere. It would be interesting to see what kind of cultural artifacts popped up due to the big thaw. Maybe we should start building dikes now! I do wonder how normal these cycles of warm and cold are. It may be that it is hard for us to comprehend due to the short span of our lives. Geologic time is hard to understand for everyone.

[truth4me]

Here in northeast Arkansas the temperatures have hovered around the 100 mark daily for the last week with heat indexes between 105 and 115........humid,humid,humid......

[Flash]

As a Canadian, my first thought was "it must be wet and mushy" lol.

[Hervé]

Hahhh! Mary Greeley! No wonder!

Take a good look at her video title:

Greenland Has Had 95% Ice Melt in Just 4 Days This Month (July 25, 2012)

She is only seeing/understanding what she wishfully thinks... DOOM & GLOOM!

As Bill pointed out above, in reading the NASA report, one does get that it is the surface of the ice/glaciers that started melting a few weeks ago and the 95% is to be applied to the AREA/surface not the volume of the 3 Km thick ice of central Greenland.

This is in comparison to earlier years when it didn't get warm enough over Greenland to reach surface ice/snow melting temperatures in all its areas.

To put it in other words, Mary Greeley is clamoring that 95% of Greenland total ice volume melted over 4 days... that's a hell of a lot of water worth a megatsunami all over Canada, Russia and Europe!

[nomadguy]

I have been studying the electric universe info lately, this suggests that the high energy events are polar. ~ Toroidal sphere like electrical discharges or plasma discharge. Could there be a correlation to the 40 days and 40 nights scenario? only this time around there is less ice to melt. carry on ~

[ghostrider]

somebody tell Greeley get out of the book of revelation , just enjoy your life, and the journey along the way , this meatsuit is not the end of an immortal soul . This ice melting over four days makes me wonder what happens in four more days ?? makes me wonder about the south pole ? wait a minute the ozone hole is at the top of the earth, letting the power of the sun in directly as never before. Global warming ? should be Solar System warming. Saturn tipped over, the moon tipped over, earth is next. can you say pole shift ??

[Alan]

Bill is right, of course. It is not physically possible for the entire Greenland glacier to melt in 4 days -- it is over a mile thick, and if completely melted, would raise global sea levels by 23 feet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet

[ulli]

I'm having a hard time with the 23 feet rise in ocean level, wondering how they made such a calculation.
I have a feeling that they made the error of assuming the ocean shores all over the world were like a vertical pool wall, and just imagined piling the melted ice into that area, when in fact there are endless shallow beaches, swamps, river deltas, and water inlets that they could not possibly have taken into account, which alone could absorb all the melted ice of Greenland.

Inundating all coastal cities reminds me of the tall stories I used to hear in my youth about Venice drowning.

[araucaria]

Posted by ulli (here)

Inundating all coastal cities reminds me of the tall stories I used to hear in my youth about Venice drowning.

Exactly: if Venice drowns on its own, it will have to be through local subsidence. There is only one sea level and anything swamping Venice (which doesn't even have tides) would automatically also swamp other places such as London and most of the Thames valley.

There are also things like erosion to consider.

I think the calculation will have been made by taking the volume of ice and transposing the surface of ice to the surface of sea, i.e. surface of Greenland x 1 mile = surface of sea x 23 feet

[Bill Ryan]

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Yes, it's "only" a surface melt. But a very dramatic and sudden one. Here's the commentary from the BBC:

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18978483

Satellites reveal sudden Greenland ice melt

The surface of Greenland's massive ice sheet has melted this month over an unusually large area, Nasa has said.

Scientists said the "unprecedented" melting took place over a larger area than has been detected in three decades of satellite observation.

Melting even occurred at Greenland's coldest and highest place, Summit station.

The thawed ice area jumped from 40% of the ice sheet to 97% in just four days from 8 July.

Melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time”

Lora Koenig
Nasa Goddard Space Flight Center

Although about half of Greenland's ice sheet normally sees surface melting over the summer months, the speed and scale of this year's thaw surprised scientists, who described the phenomenon as "extraordinary".

Nasa said that nearly the entire ice cover of Greenland, from its thin, low-lying coastal edges to its centre, which is 3km (two miles) thick, experienced some degree of melting at its surface.

Until now, the most extensive melting seen by satellites in the past three decades was about 55% of the area.

According to ice core records, such pronounced melting at Summit station and across the ice sheet has not occurred since 1889.

"When we see melt in places that we haven't seen before, at least in a long period of time, it makes you sit up and ask what's happening," Nasa chief scientist Waleed Abdalati said.

"It's a big signal, the meaning of which we're going to sort out for years to come."

He said that, because this Greenland-wide melting has happened before - in 1889 - scientists are not yet able to determine whether this is a natural but rare event, or if it has been sparked by man-made climate change.

The observation is in my view much more important than the recently reported break up of a large iceberg from Petermann Glacier”

Poul Christoffersen
Scott Polar Research Institute

"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," said Lora Koenig, a glaciologist from Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland and a member of the research team analysing the satellite data.

"But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."

Prof Eric Wolff, from the British Antarctic Survey (Bas) told BBC News: "There have clearly been some very warm days in Greenland this month. As a result, the surface snow has melted across the whole ice sheet.

"This is confirmed by some of my international colleagues who are on the ground at the NEEM ice core drilling site in north Greenland - they are reporting several days with temperatures above zero, and ice layers forming in the snow.

"While this is very unusual, as always we cannot attribute any individual extreme event to climate change: We will have to wait and see if more such events occur in the next few years to understand its significance for both the climate and the health of the ice sheet."

Dr Poul Christoffersen, a glaciologist and engineer at the Scott Polar Institute in Cambridge, told BBC News: "The melting seen in the satellite data is unprecedented, as it extends all the way across the ice sheet including the summit, which is located 3,200 m above sea level. Melting is usually limited to less than 2000m elevation."

The news comes just days after Nasa satellite imagery revealed that a massive iceberg, twice the size of Manhattan, had broken off the Petermann Glacier in Greenland.

"The observation [from Greenland] is in my view much more important than the recently reported break up of a large iceberg from Petermann Glacier," Dr Christofferson added.

Nasa's Tom Wagner said: "This event, combined with other natural but uncommon phenomena, such as the large calving event last week on Petermann Glacier, are part of a complex story."

Scientists said they believed that much of Greenland's ice was already freezing again.

[Taurean]

It would ruin the Olympics if the Thames barrier couldn't cope with the rise in sea level.

[meeradas]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
this does not mean that the ice has disappeared!

It hasn't.
One of my friends is flying over there, weekly.
Just sent me a message, stating: "All you see,
for a looong time, is ice, ice, ice". Guess we can 'cool down' a bit.

[Fred Steeves]

I don't usually cut and paste, but am reminded of this event that occured long before the invention of HAARP, and global warming/cooling/ change hype:

On January 22, 1943, the northern and eastern slopes of the Black Hills were at the western edge of an Arctic airmass and under a temperature inversion. A layer of shallow Arctic air hugged the ground from Spearfish to Rapid City. At about 7:30am MST, the temperature in Spearfish was -4 degrees Fahrenheit. The chinook kicked in, and two minutes later the temperature was 45 degrees above zero. The 49 degree rise in two minutes set a world record that is still on the books. By 9:00am, the temperature had risen to 54 degrees. Suddenly, the chinook died down and the temperature tumbled back to -4 degrees. The 58 degree drop took only 27 minutes.
http://www.blackhillsweather.com/chinook.html

[Cartomancer]

The ice melt in Greenland is paralleled by the Mississippi River running dry. This also happened in 1988 and today it has not reached the low water mark established then. Here's an article from the St. Louis Times Dispatch:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/mis...9bb30f31a.html

[cloud9]

Posted by meeradas (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
this does not mean that the ice has disappeared!

It hasn't.
One of my friends is flying over there, weekly.
Just sent me a message, stating: "All you see,
for a looong time, is ice, ice, ice". Guess we can 'cool down' a bit.

Would it be possible getting pictures or a video from your friend? We can't trust news or websites pictures anymore....

[meeradas]

Posted by cloud9 (here)
Would it be possible getting pictures or a video from your friend? We can't trust news or websites pictures anymore....

Nope - no pics or vids possible.
I just trust his words on that one.

[SilentFeathers]

There's so much doom and gloom being spewed out from every direction that fear and paranoia have blanketed the Earth....many will freak out this autumn when the leaves on the tree's start turning colors and think the devil did it or tptb have something to do with it.

The ice sheets have been melting for years, it's a cycle....I highly doubt if car exhaust or underarm deodorant spray cans have much to do with it.

Our star, our location in the Milky way, and possibly "a cosmic/earth cycle" that no one alive on Earth has witnessed before may be to blame. HAARP and other things may play a part to some degree, but are most likely just micro agitators to a much bigger picture. We little humans really don't have all that much control or power over the universe and the huge cycles that all things go through....although many think we are God's and in full control of nature and the biological destiny of all living things here on Earth........yeah right!

I bet when Krakatoa exploded those in that area of the globe thought the world was ending, those on the otherside of the planet most likely didn't even know about it or could care a less. Today we see much more and have much more to think about.....imagination and a whole bunch of information can sometimes be a bit overwhelming and cause many to over look the obvious........

just me thinking again............

[Operator]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
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Yes, it's "only" a surface melt. But a very dramatic and sudden one.

Well, folks maybe we should do the math and add 1+1 ...

The amount of melted ice (= water) is not the problem. The fact they don't know what caused it and the short period is worrying.

What if the Greenland ice cap is not only melted on top but on all sides ? I.e. the bottom too ...

Exactly ... it would come lose and lubricated by the ice water it could slide into the ocean ...

Voila ... here is the near future coastal event that so many are worried about right at the east coast of the USA.

Just thinking out loud