Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[greybeard]

Sri Ramana Maharshi The collected Works.

I keep reading The Agamas chapter and other ones too.
I came across a nice metaphor about how when we carry an empty pot we think we are carrying the space within it.
When the pot is broken where is this space now ( to my mind the space was never separated by the walls of the pot, it was always within and external, never separate, -- non-location. Same with the in-dweller, we just appear to be limited within the confines of the body.

Science is proving what the ancients knew----the space in the atom which is 99.99% of it is all important.

This is a very interesting video.

Chris

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dVUU3p5iHMA

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dVUU3p5iHMA

[Jenci]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Sri Ramana Maharshi The collected Works.

I keep reading The Agamas chapter and other ones too.
I came across a nice metaphor about how when we carry an empty pot we think we are carrying the space within it.
When the pot is broken where is this space now ( to my mind the space was never separated by the walls of the pot, it was always within and external, never separate, -- non-location. Same with the in-dweller, we just appear to be limited within the confines of the body.

Science is proving what the ancients knew----the space in the atom which is 99.99% of it is all important.

This is a very interesting video.

Chris

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dVUU3p5iHMA

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dVUU3p5iHMA

Hi Chris

Back in the early days when it started for me I used to sit for hours just in silence on my bed just staring into space. One of the things I used to contemplate was what was the space in my room and what would my room be without the walls.

It was one of those mind-blowing contemplations .....and as we know, anything which is mind-blowing is very good

Jeanette

[silviog]

Hi, I have a fee questions..
My english is not perfect, sorry :-)

Some books, says that we should use our 2 hemisferes of the brain simultaneously, to increase brain power.
are we using 10% of our brain capacity? there is a way to use 90%..?
quantum mind techniques, listening binaural beats???

the EGO sometimes uses bad emotions to distract us, like fear, hunger, anxious.
but, are these thougs allways ours?
or is it possible that spiritual entities are able to inject these thougts in our mind, or manipulate our EGO emotions?

[Eram]

Hi Silviog,

Welcome to Avalon.

To your first question... I'm not sure about the percentages and if all this is true, but I do know of a technique that will help to let the 2 hemispheres work together. This technique will help you deal with your fears and will improve you thinking ability.
I'm doing this technique for a week now and the results are stunning to me.

Hope this may be of help to you.

[greybeard]

Hi silviog I wouldn’t worry about your English your post is easily understood.

It would be better/beneficial if both hemispheres of the brain were used.

We are aware of using 10% of the brain--- there may be more activity than we realise but certinly we have not nearly reached our potential.

The mind techniques you mention are no doubt beneficial.

Thoughts arrive--- then we tend to claim them as ours and thats our choice but there is evidence that the brain is a thought receiver like a radio.
So if we are tuned into positive thoughts that;s mainly what arrives in our consciousness.

Energy out with the body, be it solar flares or lower astral entities can affect the thoughts and emotions but again if your tuned into positivity they wont affect you too much.

Just be careful what you buy into.

If you keep tuned into positive health supporting thoughts, then you will get more similar thoughts and you will benefit greatly in mind, body and emotions.

Thanks for the post

Regards Chris

[greybeard]

Gregg Braden Bridging the gap between Science and spirituality.
Regards
Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQzFeh2s3uk

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQzFeh2s3uk

[Bing Lalo]

Dear greybeard, in my opinion we have tho types of Ego, the mortal Ego and the Multidimensional Ego. The mortal Ego is the son of our emotional body, physical body, and mental body. This is the Ego that must be transcended, this is the Ego that if grow too much creates the separation. When that happens we think that we are alone and disconected from the rest, if it grows more and more, we will become to be the dark side. To be able to transcended we must to look inside of us, we must to look ourselves in to the mirrow with out judge. To be able to do this we must to use the humor, this is our weapon to defeat our mortal Ego. When you see things of yourself that make you better than the rest, just laugh of yourself, and the vanity will dissapear. When you see things that are dark, laugh of yourself and the guilt will dissapear. With the practice and the perseverance you will transcended the mortal ego and you will open the door to the Multidimensional Ego.

Be good and enjoy life.

[another bob]

Anita Moorjani:

One question that comes up time and again is “What is my opinion on the ego, and isn’t it egotistical to love yourself?” My take on this is: On the contrary, the more we try to suppress our ego, the more it will push back, like trying to push an inflatable ball under water. So it's best to embrace our ego, and accept that we all have an ego, and it is part and parcel of our physical expression here. Before my cancer, I used to believe that in order to become more spiritual, I had to transcend the ego. This is what many spiritual teachings tell us. So every time my ego reared it's head, I used to judge myself negatively for not being spiritual enough, and I would do everything I could to push my ego firmly back in to the closet, where it would only be kicking and screaming to get out. Therefore, we end up only creating a battle situation with our ego. Now however, I understand that I need to embrace myself fully, ego and all. And when I embrace my ego, I develop a healthy relationship with it, with no judgment. Then, and only then, am able to see beyond the ego, and get in touch with my greater, infinite self. Ironically, the more obsessed I become with trying to transcend my ego, the more entangled I become with my ego!

And contrary to popular belief, it's not egotistical to embrace your ego, and to love yourself. The most humble, down to earth and humorous people have fully embraced their egos, and have a very healthy sense of self. In fact, those who don't embrace themselves fully or have low self esteem may come across as more egotistical, because they have a need for external validation, so will do whatever they can to gain attention. The more we can embrace, accept, and even love every part of our true nature, the less we will judge ourselves, others, and the less we will need external validation. And we will have the confidence and clarity of spirit to look beyond the ego, at the greater picture.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tjLouLHH-_I

[truthseekerdan]

Posted by another bob (here)
...
And contrary to popular belief, it's not egotistical to embrace your ego, and to love yourself. The most humble, down to earth and humorous people have fully embraced their egos, and have a very healthy sense of self. In fact, those who don't embrace themselves fully or have low self esteem may come across as more egotistical, because they have a need for external validation, so will do whatever they can to gain attention. The more we can embrace, accept, and even love every part of our true nature, the less we will judge ourselves, others, and the less we will need external validation. And we will have the confidence and clarity of spirit to look beyond the ego, at the greater picture.

It's all about finding balance...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post264971

[Jenci]

Posted by another bob (here)
Anita Moorjani:

And when I embrace my ego, I develop a healthy relationship with it, with no judgment. Then, and only then, am able to see beyond the ego, and get in touch with my greater, infinite self. Ironically, the more obsessed I become with trying to transcend my ego, the more entangled I become with my ego!

Thanks Bob

I wouldn't personally use the term "embrace the ego" in case that led to a grasping of the ego, instead of resisting it.


When I was in this situation I used the question "Who is trying to transcend the ego?", emphasis on the word "Who?"


Jeanette

[another bob]

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by another bob (here)
Anita Moorjani:

And when I embrace my ego, I develop a healthy relationship with it, with no judgment. Then, and only then, am able to see beyond the ego, and get in touch with my greater, infinite self. Ironically, the more obsessed I become with trying to transcend my ego, the more entangled I become with my ego!

Thanks Bob

I wouldn't personally use the term "embrace the ego" in case that led to a grasping of the ego, instead of resisting it.


When I was in this situation I used the question "Who is trying to transcend the ego?", emphasis on the word "Who?"


Jeanette

Good point, Sister!

I always come back to the wisdom of the Ashtavakra Gita:

"Embrace nothing,
turn nothing away."

[Jenci]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by another bob (here)
Anita Moorjani:

And when I embrace my ego, I develop a healthy relationship with it, with no judgment. Then, and only then, am able to see beyond the ego, and get in touch with my greater, infinite self. Ironically, the more obsessed I become with trying to transcend my ego, the more entangled I become with my ego!

Thanks Bob

I wouldn't personally use the term "embrace the ego" in case that led to a grasping of the ego, instead of resisting it.


When I was in this situation I used the question "Who is trying to transcend the ego?", emphasis on the word "Who?"


Jeanette

Good point, Sister!

I always come back to the wisdom of the Ashtavakra Gita:

"Embrace nothing,
turn nothing away."

Words are so very difficult with this. If we are talking on a one to one with someone we can use words to convey the meaning we want dependant on how we think the person is interpreting them through their own filters of conditioning and understanding.


Anything that wants to/tries to transcend the ego, is the ego itself. The irony is that in realising that we transcend the ego.



Although I will say that trying to get rid of the ego and the struggle that will follow may not be a bad thing....very often it is the struggle which brings us to the point of surrender.


Now I am just complicating things

Jeanette

[another bob]

Posted by Jenci (here)
Now I am just complicating things

LOL, Sister!

The oft-encountered problem in such matters is our tendency to confuse or conflate absolute truth with relative truth. For example, Anita is pointing to a conventional, or relative truth, and you to an ultimate, or absolute one. Many great sages have labored mightily to illuminate this paradoxical issue, but few were as clear as Nagarjuna, when he noted:

"Those who do not understand
The division of these two realities
Do not understand the profound true reality
Of the Buddha's teaching.

Without reliance on conventions,
The ultimate cannot be taught.
Without realization of the ultimate,
Nirvana will not be attained."


or:


"The dharmas taught by buddhas
Hinge on two truths:
Partial truths of the world
And truths which are sublime.
Without knowing how they differ,
You cannot know the deep;
Without relying on conventions,
You cannot disclose the sublime;
Without intuiting the sublime,
You cannot experience freedom."


Now, for a remarkably thorough (though somwhat academic-sounding) analysis, here's a link for those who may wish to delve into the matter more deeply:

http://www.lotsawahouse.org/two-trut...-lotsawa-house

[NancyV]

Posted by Bing Lalo (here)
Dear greybeard, in my opinion we have tho types of Ego, the mortal Ego and the Multidimensional Ego. The mortal Ego is the son of our emotional body, physical body, and mental body. This is the Ego that must be transcended, this is the Ego that if grow too much creates the separation. When that happens we think that we are alone and disconected from the rest, if it grows more and more, we will become to be the dark side. To be able to transcended we must to look inside of us, we must to look ourselves in to the mirrow with out judge. To be able to do this we must to use the humor, this is our weapon to defeat our mortal Ego. When you see things of yourself that make you better than the rest, just laugh of yourself, and the vanity will dissapear. When you see things that are dark, laugh of yourself and the guilt will dissapear. With the practice and the perseverance you will transcended the mortal ego and you will open the door to the Multidimensional Ego.

Be good and enjoy life.

That's exactly what I do, Bing Lalo. I am constantly laughing at myself for occasional feelings of guilt or episodes of silliness. I accept that these are patterned human reactions and I don't mind that they occasionally arise. It makes life interesting!

As Bob says, I embrace my ego. I accept and love my ego. Then it can relax and let go, merge into the multi-dimensional Ego and ultimately the Source, which is the great BIG one and only EGO. The ultimate I AM. "Enlightenment" is not meant to be serious. (at least not for me) It's about the most humorous and joyous thing I've ever experienced.

[greybeard]

Ramesh Balsekar who translated for Nasargadatta said,
"God gave you an ego let Him remove it"

The ego was absolutely necessary for the early survival of the human species (duality) however things may be changing.
Gregg Braden pointed out that in numerous Scientific studies it was found that in no situation was competition positive life supporting etc, quite the reverse.
The scientists maintained that cooperation was the most successful mode and now essential to the survival of the species.
He also maintained that the Darwin philosophy of survival of the fit est was the main reason for the woes of the world as it lead to Elitism as in Nazism (Hitler and other elitist megalomaniacs)

I think with some humility and kindness to others the ego naturally starts to diminish.
There are levels on the spiritual path and probably best to work within ones current understanding.
Im reading Ramanas translation of the Agamas and they are clear that one must not meitate on being one with God-- the recomendation is to be single minded in the knowledge that I am,
Quote.
"Siva is other than me I am other than Siva
Uproot this attitude of differentiation.
I am indeed that Shiva
This conviction that is non dual ever practice"

"There is no greater blessing anywhere
Than gaining the Self
Meditate ever on the Self. He who is the Self
Is indeed the one all pervasive Supreme Self
Be aware of this"

Now once upon a time I would have seen this as blasphemous--- not now


Welcome to Bing Lalo

Regards to all contributors and readers

Chris

[greybeard]

Spiritual teachers

Its a question of which teaching is appropriate to the level the student is at.
One level is not better than another just different.
Advanced physics is not appropriate to a pre university student, all students are equal just in a different place

So some teachers are very much in duality--- they teach how to protect your individuality, your uniqueness--- how to claim your sovereignty, gain your power etc. All beneficial if the goal is not enlightenment.

Non-duality
The enlightened teachers teach that you are not the persona-- not the ego not the body but they teach you to respect your seeming uniqueness and persona.
They teach non attachment to thoughts and anything that comes and goes.
Its very subtle.
They teach compassion and love for all without exception for all are One.
They teach non judgement while still having preferences.
Nothing is seen as right nor wrong but rather helpful, life supporting or not.
Just degrees of love-- from unconditional to absence of love.
As long as the story of me is identified with there is pain and pleasure.
The enlightened are aware of pain and pleasure but dont identify with it.
The mind – the commentator, is virtually silent or at the least not identified with
After enlightenment the persona continues but the enlightened being just witnesses the actions of it.
Karma has a certain momentum which continues but Self is not affected by that.
The paradox is that life is fully experienced and enjoyed without it being a personal event--- no individual person remains
Ultimately the Self is One without a second--- only God is.

[felixq78]

Some say that the ego doesn't really exist, it's just layer upon layer of our physical existence but it still has a life of its own, it wants to rule over the true spiritual self. It's the Devil and its ultimate goal is to display its power over us by killing the physical body. Marianne Williamson has some interesting ideas on it. Her ideas on the true nature of The Devil i.e. The Ego make a lot of sense.

[greybeard]

Thanks Felixq7
Coincidently I recently watched Marianne on Super Soul Sunday (Oprah Winfry)
She was excellent.
I went to a ACIM group for about a year every weekend and that was good.

Chris

[K626]

Posted by NancyV (here)

Posted by Bing Lalo (here)
Dear greybeard, in my opinion we have tho types of Ego, the mortal Ego and the Multidimensional Ego. The mortal Ego is the son of our emotional body, physical body, and mental body. This is the Ego that must be transcended, this is the Ego that if grow too much creates the separation. When that happens we think that we are alone and disconected from the rest, if it grows more and more, we will become to be the dark side. To be able to transcended we must to look inside of us, we must to look ourselves in to the mirrow with out judge. To be able to do this we must to use the humor, this is our weapon to defeat our mortal Ego. When you see things of yourself that make you better than the rest, just laugh of yourself, and the vanity will dissapear. When you see things that are dark, laugh of yourself and the guilt will dissapear. With the practice and the perseverance you will transcended the mortal ego and you will open the door to the Multidimensional Ego.

Be good and enjoy life.

That's exactly what I do, Bing Lalo. I am constantly laughing at myself for occasional feelings of guilt or episodes of silliness. I accept that these are patterned human reactions and I don't mind that they occasionally arise. It makes life interesting!

As Bob says, I embrace my ego. I accept and love my ego. Then it can relax and let go, merge into the multi-dimensional Ego and ultimately the Source, which is the great BIG one and only EGO. The ultimate I AM. "Enlightenment" is not meant to be serious. (at least not for me) It's about the most humorous and joyous thing I've ever experienced.

Can identity with all of that Nancy. After all the ego is an antiquated self-defence meme after all.

Nothing healthier than laughing at one's own antics.

love

K

[another bob]

As long as we follow a spiritual approach promising salvation, miracles, liberation, then we are bound by the "golden chain of spirituality." Such a chain might be beautiful to wear, with its inlaid jewels and intricate carvings, but nevertheless, it imprisons us. People think they can wear the golden chain for decoration without being imprisoned by it, but they are deceiving themselves. As long as one's approach to spirituality is based upon enriching ego, then it is spiritual materialism, a suicidal process rather than a creative one.

All the promises we have heard are pure seduction. We expect the teachings to solve all our problems; we expect to be provided with magical means to deal with our depressions, our aggressions, our sexual hang-ups. But to our surprise we begin to realize that this is not going to happen. It is very disappointing to realize that we must work on ourselves and our suffering rather than depend upon a savior or the magical power of yogic techniques. It is disappointing to realize that we have to give up our expectations rather than build on the basis of our preconceptions.

We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshipping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult.

Such a series of disappointments inspires us to give up ambition. We fall down and down and down, until we touch the ground, until we relate with the basic sanity of earth. We become the lowest of the low, the smallest of the small, a grain of sand, perfectly simple, no expectations. When we are grounded, there is no room for dreaming or frivolous impulse, so our practice at last becomes workable. We begin to learn how to make a proper cup of tea, how to walk straight without tripping. Our whole approach to life becomes more simple and direct, and any teachings we might hear or books we might read become workable. They become confirmations, encouragements to work as a grain of sand, as we are, without expectations, without dreams.

We have heard so many promises, have listened to so many alluring descriptions of exotic places of all kinds, have seen so many dreams, but from the point of view of a grain of sand, we could not care less. We are just a speck of dust in the midst of the universe. At the same time our situation is very spacious, very beautiful and workable. In fact, it is very inviting, inspiring. If you are a grain of sand, the rest of the universe, all the space, all the room is yours, because you obstruct nothing, overcrowd nothing, possess nothing. There is tremendous openness. You are the emperor of the universe because you are a grain of sand. The world is very simple and at the same time very dignified and open, because your inspiration is based upon disappointment, which is without the ambition of the ego.

~Chogyam Trungpa