Here and Now...What's Happening?

[Jenci]

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by Wakytweaky

Ohhh Jenci,

What are you doing to me.
You get me all confused again

Well.. food for reflection actually.
This is very useful to me... like always.

Confusion is very good

The nature of mind is that it is needs to make sense, organise, solve problems. Very often we find that we only get to the point of surrendering the mind when it is so confused it cannot work it out.


The reality is that "you" are not confused, your mind is. But you are not your mind, yet the mind cannot understand this, because this is beyond it, therefore beyond its understanding.


There are plenty of techniques to use, all adding to the confusion but to simplify, techniques fall into two catergories

(A) those which involve the use of the mind

(B) those which don't use the mind and therefore take the person to the place beyond the mind (connection with source, HS, spirit, whatever you want to call it)

Some people find that techniques which involve the mind, category (A) can be very effective. The mind can be trained and tamed and the person doing it can end up with a very pleasant and comfortable life because of it but I could compare this to a dog who gets trained to perform tricks and behave, it's great, it's happy.... but it is not free.


The mind is a veil which obscures the true self so to have direct experience of the true self/source/HS you need to go beyond the mind and in transcending it, the veil gets lifted.

A mind trained with mental techniques is still a veil which obscures the source/HS. Now the mind may tell a story that because it has evolved to behave in certain ways, that this is now the connection with the source/HS but this is just a story that it tells and if one story is believed, then a thousand will be believed.

In some ways this "spiritual mind/ego" can be more problematic than the prior misbehaving mind/ego because life has got better and it believes that it has reached the source/HS when, in fact, it is preventing that connection by its new spiritual/well behaved identity.


Eckhart's techniques fall into the category of going beyond the mind, category (B) and they are good techniques although the mind can co-opt the technique and make it its own. I have come across people practising his techniques but they have ended up with a mind/ego trying to get into the "Now" which creates the spiritual mind/ego which thinks it has reached home when it hasn't.

Personally I found his techniques as a good introduction but then needed to supplement with other teachings, perhaps more heavyweight, which were finer tuned to pick up the subtleties of when the mind was coming in to do the work.

One question that I have found which has helped me many times is "What do I really want?" and I have used this question by asking it and taking it within.

Invariably I find that to have what I really want, I have to do the thing I don't want to do. The contemplation of this question alone has destroyed many of my mind's delusions about what techniques and paths to follow.


Thank you for sharing your exploration to the Self. It's humbling and inspiring to read.
Jeanette

How's this for synchronicity, I have just been watching the video of Mooji that ljwheat put up in this thread https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...587#post530587 and I hear him making the distinction between the two types of techniques I was referring to.




In this video we get to see how the spiritual teacher enables the student to deepen their inquiry to go beyond the mind. It's a long video but the first segment shows a man who has been on the spiritual journey but is now finding that emotions and trauma from the past have been bubbling up to the point of it becoming unbearable. This emotional suffering is very common in the spiritual journey.

Begin the video at 5 minutes.

Notice at 10.50 how Mooji asks the question to the man, "Who suffers?". Notice how he stresses again "Who?" This is a question the mind can never understand so the mind dismisses it and the man carries on. Watch in the exchange how Mooji sees this and stops the man by telling him to slow down and then he redirects him back to the question of "Who?"

This inquiry into the identity of the "I" that cannot take the pain, is a technique in category (B) which goes beyond the mind.

At 13.12 Mooji also states the difference between the two categories of techniques.

He says "The therapist will look at what you cannot take any longer but I will look at who cannot take it"

Looking at what you cannot take is delving into the mind (A) whereas looking at who cannot take it (B), it something that the mind cannot understand, therefore if the inquiry of "who" is pursued, it will take you beyond the mind.


Mooji goes on to say at around 14.00:

"Unquestioned identity is speaking and as long as the identity remains intact, its suffering will remain.

This can stop now. What must stop now?...a delusion. A wrong identity can stop today. But it has to be clear and it has to be genuine. These things cannot be transcended by merely intellectual reasoning. It has to be an in-seeing, an insight"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wtos5qHh7D8

source https://youtube.com/watch?v=wtos5...ayer_embedded#!

[Jenci]

Posted by Anchor (here)
This gives one something else to ponder - if we are not all one, then were are we in the scheme of things? I just do not think its possible.

Thanks John, for putting me in my place


Jeanette

[Jenci]

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)
So from those graphs, this year more than the other years !.....that's my interpretation in simple non-graph language, lol

Jeanette

It's a graphic acknowledgement that says to me, "No, you are not crazy. Yes, that wacko energy you are feeling IS real. And that wacko energy is not 'the Pauler'."

My son said to me this morning "Mum, this solar flare is a fake. I'm just angry because I want to be angry"

How's that for honesty

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Jenci (here)

So from those graphs, this year more than the other years !.....that's my interpretation in simple non-graph language, lol

Jeanette

It's a graphic acknowledgement that says to me, "No, you are not crazy. Yes, that wacko energy you are feeling IS real. And that wacko energy is not 'the Pauler'."

UPDATE: DOUBLE POST. I didn't know this was uploaded. I went and downloaded a different browser because mine keeps crashing when I'm on forum. Grrr.

FYI: This post will be delete by the big guys.

===

[Mod-edit: nah -- then I'd have to delete the replies as well -- seems ok the way it is . -Paul.]

[ulli]

Posted by meeradas (here)
just in case

I wonder if it blinks from one Now to the next?

[Jenci]

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

So from those graphs, this year more than the other years !.....that's my interpretation in simple non-graph language, lol

Jeanette

It's a graphic acknowledgement that says to me, "No, you are not crazy. Yes, that wacko energy you are feeling IS real. And that wacko energy is not 'the Pauler'."

UPDATE: DOUBLE POST. I didn't know this was uploaded. I went and downloaded a different browser because mine keeps crashing when I'm on forum. Grrr.

The forum was down for a few minutes.

[Mark]

LOL Calz! Scan the pic! We wanna see!

Posted by ViralSpiral (here)
Awww bless!! What a fine keeper of peace you have become. So glad you're here!
I have never tried a sweat-lodge. I should. There's much to be sweated out!

Thank you VS! Yes, there is much to be sweated out. LOL I'm sure everybody remembers the unfortunate circumstances surrounding James Ray and the sweat lodge deaths he was responsible for.

For that and other reasons, if you decide to do sweats, I highly recommend that you do so with someone whose tradition it is, not someone who has built a lodge in their backyard or who is "selling spirituality" in this manner. All I know about the case above is what I read online about it but from what I could tell he viewed sweats as some sort of endurance-concentration thing, which it so is not.

Whoever leads the lodge must be a true shaman. Must have the ability to see and communicate with the tecanchilas, the spirits. Must have the ability to read people psychically and tell what is going on with them, that way they know going into the sweat what can potentially happen. My Apache friend who used to lead some of the sweats I was involved in would carefully place people according to the 4 directions and the strength of the individuals. If new people would come, he would place them between certain other people because once that flap closes and the darkness begins, the grandmothers are glowing and the water is poured? Anything can happen. People lose their minds. It's best to have someone there who knows how to deal with such things.

It's not a physical exercise, it is a spiritual one. You learn who you are at core within the lodge because you come face to face with yourself under extreme duress that is, simultaneously, comforting and freeing at the same time. You must be totally in the Now moment.

A wonderful tool for self-realization that I highly recommend.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

So from those graphs, this year more than the other years !.....that's my interpretation in simple non-graph language, lol

Jeanette

It's a graphic acknowledgement that says to me, "No, you are not crazy. Yes, that wacko energy you are feeling IS real. And that wacko energy is not 'the Pauler'."

UPDATE: DOUBLE POST. I didn't know this was uploaded. I went and downloaded a different browser because mine keeps crashing when I'm on forum. Grrr.

The forum was down for a few minutes.

Oh. man. THANK YOU! I run a small business out of my apartment and I thought it was my browser. Whew! That explains why I could still upload files for the school.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by ulli (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)
So from those graphs, this year more than the other years !.....that's my interpretation in simple non-graph language, lol

Jeanette

It's a graphic acknowledgement that says to me, "No, you are not crazy. Yes, that wacko energy you are feeling IS real. And that wacko energy is not 'the Pauler'."

Should I google The Pauler? Anything to do with Paul, the moderator?

Just playing with "my name". Pauler=Paula with RI accent. Example: idea=idear

Just for the heck of it I googled, "The Pauler". There are sites. Go figure.

[ViralSpiral]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
LOL Calz! Scan the pic! We wanna see!

I agree. Strongly!

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
For that and other reasons, if you decide to do sweats, I highly recommend that you do so with someone whose tradition it is, not someone who has built a lodge in their backyard or who is "selling spirituality" in this manner. All I know about the case above is what I read online about it but from what I could tell he viewed sweats as some sort of endurance-concentration thing, which it so is not.

Whoever leads the lodge must be a true shaman. Must have the ability to see and communicate with the tecanchilas, the spirits. Must have the ability to read people psychically and tell what is going on with them, that way they know going into the sweat what can potentially happen. My Apache friend who used to lead some of the sweats I was involved in would carefully place people according to the 4 directions and the strength of the individuals. If new people would come, he would place them between certain other people because once that flap closes and the darkness begins, the grandmothers are glowing and the water is poured? Anything can happen. People lose their minds. It's best to have someone there who knows how to deal with such things.

It's not a physical exercise, it is a spiritual one. You learn who you are at core within the lodge because you come face to face with yourself under extreme duress that is, simultaneously, comforting and freeing at the same time. You must be totally in the Now moment.

A wonderful tool for self-realization that I highly recommend.

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. So no worries
I have read a lot about the lodges and even looked around my area. Too many Germans

[ulli]

This morning's NextworldTV was quite good...it's about sharing a room in one's home with world travelers. This could hurt the Holiday Inns of this world.

http://www.nextworldtv.com/videos/ne...g-economy.html

[Mark]

Posted by ViralSpiral (here)
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. So no worries
I have read a lot about the lodges and even looked around my area. Too many Germans

LOL

Well, the kind of "losing of the mind" I am talking about is when the water is poured and the steam rises, hits the top of the lodge and billows directly onto the top of your head and the rest of your body and the temperature reaches up to 110 degrees Fahrenheit, and every iota of your being is screaming to you, GEEEEEEET OOUUUUUUUUUUTTTT!

But it's not just you. It's also the negative entities inside of you, who come screaming out of your body and can and will enter into others in near proximity unless there is someone leading the sweat who is trained in the ceremonies and chants and medicines to use in order to release them from the lodge and the ceremonial circle the lodge is within.

Apparently there is a European sweating tradition too!

Here's another one that looks interesting, maybe if you're in Northern Europe you can follow up on these!

[ViralSpiral]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
if you're in Northern Europe

Munich *cough* .

Yes, I do realise what you meant.
In May I went for a quiet waddle through the wilderness with a few people. Was meant to be a 5 - 7 km gentle walk. Turned into a 20km heated (40 degrees Celsius) struggle, as my head whistled like a kettle. I too was screaming at our guide: GEEEEEEET OOUUUUUUUUUUTTTT!
The GPS's batteries had gone flat. We were lost. Whats wrong with ye old compass, 'eh??
Anyhoo, free sweat-lodge, right there. Under G*ds gorgeous canopy. The demons nearly took him out at the knee-caps!

[ulli]

Look at what is coming our way right now. Barbados is that tiny little island in the top left corner and the 'blob' has a 60 % chance of being upgraded to a hurricane at any moment.

http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/rams...asec6ir404.gif

[Mark]

Goodness, Ulli! Seek shelter! ! ! !

Ah that's great, VS, I went to Munich for an Oktoberfest once when I was a soldier stationed in Kaiserslautern back in the late 80s. Great city! ! !

[Carmody]

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by Wakytweaky

Ohhh Jenci,

What are you doing to me.
You get me all confused again

Well.. food for reflection actually.
This is very useful to me... like always.

Confusion is very good

The nature of mind is that it is needs to make sense, organise, solve problems. Very often we find that we only get to the point of surrendering the mind when it is so confused it cannot work it out.


The reality is that "you" are not confused, your mind is. But you are not your mind, yet the mind cannot understand this, because this is beyond it, therefore beyond its understanding.


There are plenty of techniques to use, all adding to the confusion but to simplify, techniques fall into two catergories

(A) those which involve the use of the mind

(B) those which don't use the mind and therefore take the person to the place beyond the mind (connection with source, HS, spirit, whatever you want to call it)

Some people find that techniques which involve the mind, category (A) can be very effective. The mind can be trained and tamed and the person doing it can end up with a very pleasant and comfortable life because of it but I could compare this to a dog who gets trained to perform tricks and behave, it's great, it's happy.... but it is not free.


The mind is a veil which obscures the true self so to have direct experience of the true self/source/HS you need to go beyond the mind and in transcending it, the veil gets lifted.

A mind trained with mental techniques is still a veil which obscures the source/HS. Now the mind may tell a story that because it has evolved to behave in certain ways, that this is now the connection with the source/HS but this is just a story that it tells and if one story is believed, then a thousand will be believed.

In some ways this "spiritual mind/ego" can be more problematic than the prior misbehaving mind/ego because life has got better and it believes that it has reached the source/HS when, in fact, it is preventing that connection by its new spiritual/well behaved identity.


Eckhart's techniques fall into the category of going beyond the mind, category (B) and they are good techniques although the mind can co-opt the technique and make it its own. I have come across people practising his techniques but they have ended up with a mind/ego trying to get into the "Now" which creates the spiritual mind/ego which thinks it has reached home when it hasn't.

Personally I found his techniques as a good introduction but then needed to supplement with other teachings, perhaps more heavyweight, which were finer tuned to pick up the subtleties of when the mind was coming in to do the work.

One question that I have found which has helped me many times is "What do I really want?" and I have used this question by asking it and taking it within.

Invariably I find that to have what I really want, I have to do the thing I don't want to do. The contemplation of this question alone has destroyed many of my mind's delusions about what techniques and paths to follow.


Thank you for sharing your exploration to the Self. It's humbling and inspiring to read.
Jeanette

How's this for synchronicity, I have just been watching the video of Mooji that ljwheat put up in this thread https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...587#post530587 and I hear him making the distinction between the two types of techniques I was referring to.




In this video we get to see how the spiritual teacher enables the student to deepen their inquiry to go beyond the mind. It's a long video but the first segment shows a man who has been on the spiritual journey but is now finding that emotions and trauma from the past have been bubbling up to the point of it becoming unbearable. This emotional suffering is very common in the spiritual journey.

Begin the video at 5 minutes.

Notice at 10.50 how Mooji asks the question to the man, "Who suffers?". Notice how he stresses again "Who?" This is a question the mind can never understand so the mind dismisses it and the man carries on. Watch in the exchange how Mooji sees this and stops the man by telling him to slow down and then he redirects him back to the question of "Who?"

This inquiry into the identity of the "I" that cannot take the pain, is a technique in category (B) which goes beyond the mind.

At 13.12 Mooji also states the difference between the two categories of techniques.

He says "The therapist will look at what you cannot take any longer but I will look at who cannot take it"

Looking at what you cannot take is delving into the mind (A) whereas looking at who cannot take it (B), it something that the mind cannot understand, therefore if the inquiry of "who" is pursued, it will take you beyond the mind.


Mooji goes on to say at around 14.00:

"Unquestioned identity is speaking and as long as the identity remains intact, its suffering will remain.

This can stop now. What must stop now?...a delusion. A wrong identity can stop today. But it has to be clear and it has to be genuine. These things cannot be transcended by merely intellectual reasoning. It has to be an in-seeing, an insight"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wtos5qHh7D8

source https://youtube.com/watch?v=wtos5...ayer_embedded#!

This is a difficult path as the I we tend to identify is a situation where the interpreter/translator is being mistaken as being the being itself. Where the I is the signature I/0 (Input/output) of the body's interface. It has no real intellect but it does have emotions and it does have the fear of death and dissolution.

one could say that this tenacity and misidentification is a critical function to have in place in order to have the body and the occupant fully connected to one another, until that moment when the body dies,and the occupant is on their own again, regarding interface with this 3d world.

The drawback is that unless this critical difference in knowing is clearly navigated by the occupant, they will remain in the animal state where the interface of the body and it's controls will dominate the experience of being incarnated.

the issues is to calm the body at the same time one finds a way to detach from the bond...ever so slightly. To re-address the fundamental of the point of integration into what one might call the real adult stage or state.

In a consensus reality system where the vast majority are still in this unknowing juvenile state, this pressure and lack of illuminated reflection can cause a difficulty in realizing this more elevated state of correct human adulthood.

This is something that people should learn to navigate as children, not as confused and befuddled juvenile/adults, who have built up decades of established baggage that should not be there, which is impeding their way and progress in this matter.

'To learn as children?', you ask? I say yes, likely so...for the given occupant has a clear head, and then the child's impudent impetus would be tamed and calmed at the point of actual mental formation. Where it should be done, in my estimation. Perhaps I am wrong in that, but it sure would be an interesting outcome, to say the least.

[RunningDeer]

Sharing Economy I love this. “Access is more powerful than ownership.” So many, many great ideas from this vid.

Air B&B - YouTube vid count is 1,437,538. I’ll just create a link and leave the vid off. It’s about sharing home space. But larger concept is perfect solution to keeping resources to a minimum, and bringing the community together through resource sharing.

My secret wish "was" to have a cart with an umbrella and make big pots of macrobiotic stew. Donations accepted. People would come to share stories of the day. And more people would set up their umbrella carts. We'd be the "Community of Umbrella Carts on Wednesdays".

My "hidden agenda" was two fold: nurture their bodies & pass along a new way of seeing the world. Go ahead...I'll pause while you laugh. It's okay, in fact, I'm doing it right now.

I see now that is not up to me to heal their bodies. And my knowledge base is upgrading so fast that I'm afraid the information I'd share is outdated in weeks, day, and hours. It's a "good news bad news" thing. Ah, duality makes the world go round and round. Whew, just for a little while longer.

Posted by ulli (here)
This morning's NextworldTV was quite good...it's about sharing a room in one's home with world travelers. This could hurt the Holiday Inns of this world.

http://www.nextworldtv.com/videos/ne...g-economy.html

[ulli]

Posted by Carmody (here)

This is something that people should learn to navigate as children, not as confused and befuddled juvenile/adults, who have built up decades of established baggage that should not be there, which is impeding their way and progress in this matter.

'To learn as children?', you ask? I say yes, likely so...for the given occupant has a clear head, and then the child's impudent impetus would be tamed and calmed at the point of actual mental formation. Where it should be done, in my estimation. Perhaps I am wrong in that, but it sure would be an interesting outcome, to say the least.

This is why I would love for my grandsons to get the training that is demonstrated in Christian's new thread.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=B2DXdFYDXCk

[RunningDeer]

Posted by meeradas (here)
just in case

Just so you'll know, meeradas, love this! I'm keeping it and gave it a 'make over'. Dear Here and Nowers...someday, you may see this again. Just sayin'.

Calz, I kid-nabbed-the-pic. Ally McBeal, great show.

[Calz]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

LOL Calz! Scan the pic! We wanna see!

OMG - now even Admin Dude is asking me to do shadow work


Hold that thought (until you forget about it) and accept some "hippy era music".

If I already posted it in this thread (600 pages ago) then forgive me as an old hippy with burned out brain cells ... I simply cannot remember ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4mCKLt7A6sA

... and for any other old timers out there who appreciate growing old gracefully ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9XWmwvT8bCw