For those who have ever felt suicidal, for those who have ever longed to die...

[Carmody]

An essential component to turning the mind around and having the ego be sublimated, is a point that will feel quite suicidal. This, as the ego is mechanistically and wiring wise...in full support and belief that it is in charge of the body..thus..when it feels that threatened (when you reach to clear yourself)..the result is a feeling of suicide.

This is perfectly normal. It will pass. Give it the time to do so, it is part of a process. the trick is to not get hung up on it, to be stuck in that quagmire, as the ego will ask you to do this, to hold in that pattern.......in order to remain in charge. There is freedom.... just past it......

[GarethBKK]

I'll drink to anyone who goes to the edge and comes back, for they will be a better person. I got to the edge a few years ago when my corporate career tumbled. I now see it was self-pity and a terrible thing to contemplate doing to those that love me. I have adopted the prayer of St Francis (I don't have a religion) 'It is in dying to self that we are born to eternal life'. I have overcome the fear of death, and have nothing left to fear. This puts me in a great position to put all others above self. When I quit my job, many friends said they admired my strength but 'they could not give up the salary'. I fear for them if the salary gives up on them.

[Antagenet]

Thanks pilotsimone, for a thoughful and important thread.

I too have longed to be off this planet, off and on since about age 7 (also panic attacks)
and am also a highly sensitive person. I detested being so sensitive for decades
until I realized that the core of my talents spring from my sensitivity.

It's not terribly fun to always feel so much, have such fine tuned antennae!

Also there were societal reasons that brought me to despair, such as...
the majority of US citizens paying taxes to a murderous government.
This frequently made me want to leave. Well so I left the usa instead of the
planet. Helped a little LOLOL

Then I became a SOS (survivor of a suicide = a close person in my life killed themselves)
and I learnt the hard way what pain other people go through when their loved ones actually do it.
And it immediately TOOK AWAY that option ever again.

Now apparently the suicide rate is soaring. Just read this yesterday. Not sure it if it true.
Sad. SO much support needed and not available. Good time to help bring this topic
out of the taboo closet.

Now that I am in middle age, I look around me at people my age and older
and it seems to me that the majority are not actively choosing positive health programs...
so that there is a kind of slow moving, unaccountable suicide of following along
without making a real decision TO LIVE.

So now, ironically, I think most people are committing suicide little by little
and I never would have seen or believed this when I was younger.

A friend of mine mentioned the astrological chiron return in people's mid fifties
as a time everyone consciously either decides to live or not. Interesting idea.

[DNA]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
In the Michael teachings there are 7 chief features or negative over riding qualities. We are all burdened with one of these seven. One of them happens to be called martyrdom. This chief feature causes folks to feel that death would solve everything

interesting, can we know the other features?

What is a Chief Feature?

Generally speaking, all personality traits (or overleaves) are neutral. They can be applied positively or negatively, but in themselves they are neither positive nor negative. Personality traits are merely different ways of being.
A chief feature [1] is different. A chief feature is negative by nature.
A chief feature is a dominant negative attitude — a defensive and potentially destructive pattern of thinking, feeling and acting.
We all have at least one. We create it during adolescence, and thereafter it manifests as a lifelong character flaw or personality defect.
We forge this bit of our personality initially as a weapon, or at least a shield, to “protect” us as we emerge into the adult world.
It seems like a good idea at the time but, as I will explain, it is based on a false premise and so serves no real purpose. Throughout adulthood it just interferes with our lives by blocking aspects of our true nature and stifling our true character, usually without us even knowing.
Your chief feature is your primary ego defence and your main stumbling block in life.
This article describes how the chief feature comes to have such a stranglehold on our personality. First, though, a general description of the seven possible chief features.

The seven chief features

In the Michael teachings there are seven types of chief feature (character flaw / ego defence / personality defect / stumbling block, whatever you prefer).

Here they are listed from the most introverted to the most extroverted:

1. Self-Deprecation (belittling/diminishing/undervaluing oneself)
2. Self-Destruction (sabotaging/punishing/harming oneself)
3. Martyrdom (reacting as if persecuted/victimised/oppressed)
4. Stubbornness (resisting change in one’s life)
5. Greed (selfish overindulgence, over-consumption)
6. Arrogance (inflating/exalting/overvaluing oneself)
7. Impatience (reacting as though being sabotaged/obstructed)

[Rocky_Shorz]

I had a friend one night that said he was going to end it so I talked him into heading out for drinks, he drove and told me he had the gun and bullets ready...

before we left I tossed a napkin over his glasses so when we got to the car, he had to run back inside to get them, I opened the glove Box and right there, a box of Magnums...

I picked up his pack of cigarettes and turned half around before he hopped in to drive me home...

he wouldn't smoke in the car with me so dropped me off grabbed his smokes and lit up...

then gagged he lit the filter...

3 tries same result...

finally one lit so he could enjoy his last smoke...

he pulled off the road, took his gun out from under the seat...

opened the glove box...

the bullets were gone!!!

he was soo pissed he grabbed another smoke and lit the filter...

he fell out of the car laughing laying on the ground and saw a shooting star...


he called and said thanks, he was past the point...


then lit another filter while talking to me... boa ha ha ha haaa...


I can be a real pain in the butt...

[Free Will]

For what it's worth ~ 'The Theory of Positive Disintegration' by Kazimierz Dabrowski


http://positivedisintegration.com/

Be Greeted Psychoneurotics.*
Suffering, aloneness, self-doubt, sadness, inner conflict; these are our feelings that we have not learned to live with, that we have failed to appreciate, that we reject as destructive and completely negative, but in fact they are symptoms of an expanding consciousness. Dr. Kazimierz Dabrowski has spent 45 years piecing together the complete picture of the growth of the human psyche from primitive integration at birth; the person with potential for development will experience growth as a loosening of the stable psychic structure accompanied by symptoms of psychoneuroses. Reality becomes multileveled, the choices between higher and lower realms of behavior occupy our thought and mark us as human. Dabrowski called this process positive disintegration, he declares that psychoneurosis is not an illness and he insists that development does not come through psychotherapy but that psychotherapy is automatic when the person is conscious of his development.

To Dabrowski, real therapy is autopsychotherapy; it is the self being aware of the self through a long inner investigation; a mapping of the inner environment. There are no techniques to eliminate symptoms because the symptoms constitute the very psychic richness from which grow an increasing awareness of body, mind, humanity and cosmos. Dabrowski gives birth to that process if he can.

Without intense and painful introspection and reflection, development is unlikely. Psychoneurotic symptoms should be embraced and transformed into anxieties about human problems of an ever higher order. If psychoneuroses continue to be classified as mental illness, then perhaps it is a sickness better than health.

“Without passing through very difficult experiences and even something like psychoneurosis and neurosis we cannot understand human beings and we cannot realize our multidimensional and multilevel development toward higher and higher levels.” Dabrowski.

* From the Filmwest movie, Be Greeted Psychoneurotics.

A poem by K. Dabrowski.

"Be greeted psychoneurotics!

For you see sensitivity in the insensitivity of the world,
uncertainty among the world's certainties.

For you often feel others as you feel yourselves.

For you feel the anxiety of the world, and
its bottomless narrowness and self-assurance.

For your phobia of washing your hands from the dirt of the world,
for your fear of being locked in the world’s limitations.
for your fear of the absurdity of existence.

For your subtlety in not telling others what you see in them.

For your awkwardness in dealing with practical things, and
for your practicalness in dealing with unknown things,
for your transcendental realism and lack of everyday realism,
for your exclusiveness and fear of losing close friends,
for your creativity and ecstasy,
for your maladjustment to that "which is" and adjustment to that which "ought to be",
for your great but unutilized abilities.

For the belated appreciation of the real value of your greatness
which never allows the appreciation of the greatness
of those who will come after you.

For your being treated instead of treating others,
for your heavenly power being forever pushed down by brutal force;
for that which is prescient, unsaid, infinite in you.

For the loneliness and strangeness of your ways.

Be greeted!

From: Dabrowski, K. (1972) Psychoneurosis is not an illness, London: GRYF Publications.

[Zelig]

The feelings and/or situations that accompany suicidal thoughts have a polar opposite that I only experience occasionally and am wishing I could conjure at will. I've decided to set a goal of exploring their origins or tiggers and to try to increase their frequency. I experienced this sensation yesterday, in the midst of several days' worth of moderate anxiety brought about by an excess of social obligations. I was alone and driving from one awkward engagement to the next when a dragonfly decided to cross the highway in front of me. As I slowed to ensure that it made it across safely, the positive feelings took over and pushed aside all of my worries, doubts and stresses. It didn't last long but was intense enough to recharge me for the rest of the day. It occurred to me that these feelings tend to come when I'm alone and in the presence of nature in some way.

[polly1022]

I think that sometimes people are simply not meant to die and the universe steps in, in many ways.
I was going to kill myself 3 times in my life.

The first I was 12. I lived with an abusive alcohol/drug addict parent. I tried to get help but nobody would ever do anything. I made up my mind to kill myself and I would have done it absolutely. I had made an obligation to babysit for someone so I wanted to fulfill that first. I went to the babysitting job and while I was gone, my house burned down and my mother died in the fire. I know that should be a sad thing but it made me free to live.

The second I was in a marriage that was not working, had financial pressures, health issues. Just too much. There was no joy in life. I felt I had no way out. I planned to kill myself in one week. I again had things I had promised to do first like cleaning a guys house and things of that nature. because I knew absolutely that I would be dead in a week...my perception of the world changed. All of the bad things and pressures meant nothing now. For one week, all I saw was beauty. I could look at things for what they really were. My focus was purely on the things I never looked at while bogged down with problems of societal life. A week later I took a pill for a headache and had an allergic reaction to the drug. I knew then that I could die if I wanted to....but there had been so much beauty over the past week and it had changed me so much...that I chose to live.

The third time, I had two children and had left my abusive spouse. The only place I could find to go would only allow one child. I had to choose and give up one of my kids for a few months. My other daughter and I were living in a basement. Very irrationally I decided to kill myself even though my young daughter was right there sleeping next to me. My brain was surely not right. It was evening and the guy who lived upstairs NEVER bothered me when he came home from work. He always went straight t bed. I thought I would not be discovered. I was 2 seconds...no 1 second away from killing myself when the guy upstairs started knocking on my door and then he opened it and said " polly ! Polly ! you have to come up here. get your coat and hat and gloves and come up here now !" It was so weird and such a shock considering the frame of mind I was in but I knew I had to go up there or he'd come down. I wondered why he wanted me to get my coat and all, but i did. He took me me outside and it was very late and very cold. The northern lights were dancing in the sky like I had never seen or even drempt was possible. Beautiful flames licking the sky and dancing in all their pretty colors. I was dumbstruck...I'm getting teary eyed thinking back on the incident. Again, BEAUTY saved me. Pure absolute beauty and joy. The REALITY of the universe beyond my little problems saved me.

[SKAWF]

i can remember....
as a child!
being locked in my room. hmm
being segregated from the rest of the family (which believe it or not was was better than being around them!)
and i was thinking to myself

there has got to be more to life than this.

i was a prisoner. simple as that.
deprived of a childhood.

myself and my brother, pretty much had to fend for ourselves.
the early part of my life consisted of being locked up,
beaten with whatever my mother could get her hands on,
subjected to emotional blackmail,
being deprived social contact with other kids
and being played off against my brother....

who was being treated exactly the same way.

my mother was a violent child abusing alcoholic who set about the destruction of her own children.
while the same time, making herself out to be a caring doting mother who had no idea why her kids had behavioral problems.

i found out in later years that there is a condition called 'munchausen by proxy',
the definition of which fitted her patterns like a glove.

but my summery of it all, is that there were a lot of things that shouldve happened, which didnt,
and a lot of things which shouldnt have happened, which did.

either way, i was very 'withdrawn' and almost entirely f***ed up.

my life was a mixture of a train wreck, a plane crash, and a motorway pile up.

and it got to the stage where i had a choice.

i could either try and sort out the 'personal' stuff, or
i could try and make something of myself.

i chose the second option, thinking that if i did, the rest would fall into place.

i was lucky really.... being withdrawn from the family, and having problems at school,
the indoctrination didnt really work on me, and my 'inner world' was the place i could be at peace.

i started exploring it,
i found a pattern. i tried it in a short term way first, and when it worked,
i went for it in a massive long term way. so i set about achieving a goal,
there was no timetable to it. it was open ended
i had no idea how long it would take me to get there,
(i can guarantee an outcome, but the amount of time it will take, i cannot quantify)

i got into sound synthesis at first, then music production.
all i wanted to achieve was, being able to make the music that was in my head
and it had to be equal to (in quality) or better than the music , that others made, which i liked.

after about four years of putting nearly every resource i had into it...
i stated doubting myself. i found that i would waver between
feeling that i was absolutely right to be doing what i was doing, and on the path that i was on (my own)
and thinking that i had wasted my time energy and money, that i was never going to get anywhere.

i found myself bouncing off those two extremes,
it was around that time that i had thoughts of ending it all.

the only thing that stopped me was, finding a way to do it that was acceptable.
in the mean time i kept putting one foot in front of the other.
despite feeling overwhelmed by massive and constant pressure.
(i'm crying as i write this. i know where i'm going)

anywayz....

i cant remember what provoked the idea, but i decided to get a pet.
i thought either a cat or a dog. then for some unknown reason...... a ferret
i found a rescue, they had a 2.5 year old, who had been used for breeding,
but who wasnt happy around other ferrets, (and whoever spayed her mutilated her. poor little thing)
so i went to guildford to pick her up. i had already decided to call her 'rose'



i'll cut this short as its ended up quite a long post!

but the absolute truth is..... and from the depths of my heart...
it may have been me that picked her up from a rescue....

but it was her that rescued me.

steve

[Carmody]

You are the handler and operator of a box called 'you' both physically, metaphysically (dimensionally) and psychologically.

That box is only so big.

In order for the new to come in, something must leave, and make room.

Since we are talking about the base fundamentals of the self, in total, and it's entire view and operating parameters, we can have a situation emerge where the removal of the old to make way for the new.... is so painful and misunderstood by the body, that the interpretation is if the self dying.

Or, that we try and make room for the needed new.... and in the process internally scratch so hard at the itch, that the feeling level interpretation is one of feeling and seeing the world as being 'suicidal'.

Since Freudian psychology, from my interpretation... is all about symptom treatment on the surface, I'm not aware of any modern psychological aspect that deals with this subject in the way that it actually exists. Which is, to my understanding and thinking...as I've said in the above paragraphs. Freudian psychology is, from my view, all about cleaning up a mess on the floor, without understanding it's origins, by finding the leaky or open tap and then finding out why the tap is open.

On the more basic hind-brain level, it is as if you are a monkey in a tree, that is about to jump to a new branch. And a point comes where full commitment is made, and the jump begins. The letting go of the old and the free fall moments, before the new branch is engaged.

Now take that as a basic hindbrain body control, ego-threshold issue.... and put oneself in what might feel like an untenable position. A situation that appears to have no resolution. It would be like being held in the moment of free fall, between two trees, with no end.

So the body panics and squirms about.

And thus, in that state or those moments tries to resolve the issue, to break the moment. "the self is dying ,the self is dying, the self is dying"..., it keeps sending back into the conscious mind as a thought formation and reality interpretation filter, with all of that being amped up ....and injected into every aspect of subjectivity and objectivity in thinking and reality/world/touch/sight interpretations.

Then we get caught in trying to resolve the feeling, instead of the origins of the feeling.

The Freudian aspects of psychology and such attached medical groups/functions try to drug this situation out of existence, but instead only make it worse, in some to many cases. Fixing symptoms, not origins. A methodology of corporate activity that is similar to the drug companies and cancer. Also, a core issue in the wiring and psychology of humans, with their overarching externalization of the world and human existence.


The Buddhists teach one on one, for this very reason.

The exploration of the self and the growth of the self causes these exact type of issues to arise, all the time.

And one must be carefully guided through them, so that one understands that the feelings of "suicide" are the feelings and situations that precede enlightenment phases and stages.

The old is making way for the new. Which physically HURTS, ie, pain, very much so. The physical part of re-wiring the mind is chemically derived and it involves the breaking of neural pathways, and this is literally PAINFUL. then the ecstasy of the NEW, from the making of new pathways and understandings, in the physical mind.. this is the same device that causes a change in your thinking that is pleasurable. for example sex, releases hormones and other associated chemicals that causes new neural pathways to be born and some to be re-enforced and grown in connectivity and reach. thus tying you possibly to a given person,and so on. Birthing does the same for child and mother, in a very potent chemical moment and time of locking the two together, on the most fundamental level--chemically,and thus neurally.

Thus, in some cases... the origins of the so called bi-polar disorder, the see-saw of highs and lows, The crying and horror of one moment, then the sheer eternal beauty and intensity of awe and beauty in the next. Out with the old, in with the new. Breathe. To find ones self crying, bawling their eyes out and laughing in extreme highs of joy, maybe 20 times a day or more, as an up down cycle. That is quite exhausting! sinusoidal as it gets. Thus the image of the laughing and crying Buddha. This is evolution, in the act, the motion of actually performing such surgery and acts upon the self.

"IT WAS the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going directly the other way-....", as Charles Dickens said.

From the here and now thread, a recent posting which applies here, as a critical point in fact:



I hope that helps some of you. As you can see, that it is a critical thing to know, so you can finally find the understanding that allows one to get past such feelings and know them for what they are.

the time required for it to come into being,as the new,and thus possibly, the knowing that it will pass,and thus the understanding of what is actually going on.

The depths of desire to change, on some deep level, the need to change, the need to be new, the fundamental push to shift. Something, anything, and it pushes as hard as your life force itself, as this block occurs in the ego, which is tied to the function of the body and all reality interpretation.

And when we add the metaphysical, the dimensional, and all of that....the cues, the coincidences, the happenings....we see it as an aspect, merely a physical aspect of our overall evolution. It just happens to hurt like hell and be very confusing.

Until... you know what is really going on. Once you understand the origins of the insane seeming, unending all encompassing itch..you can begin to address it.