Bible Topics and Questions

[kreagle]

Krullenjongen my dear brother,

your quote.......

Thou shalt not kill
There is a big misunderstanding about the commandment "Thou shalt not "kill" (even among christians)
This commandment does NOT mean that you may not take someone's life under any circumstance, it is not the blanket statement that many make it out to be.
Just think about it for a minute.....
How can God say "thou shalt not kill" and a bit later command the jews to go to war agains people in the promised land???
That just doesn't make any sense.
The commandment "thou shalt not kill" is therefor sometimes translated with "Thou shalt not murder" which makes the text much clearer and covers better the meaning of this commandment.
The commandment is about Unlawwfull killing resulting in bloodguilt!
In this case Wiki does a nice job in explaining this.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_shall_not_murder

Next to this argument i totally subscribe to Kreagle's words that the commandment is a rule among man and does not apply to man and animals. Otherwise God would again go against Himself because earlier He said people were allowed to eat animals.

You did a "really nice job" of further expounding on the topic,....."thou shalt not kill", brother. ( See,......I told you that your insight was "very beneficial"!). In my response to Frogweaver, it was my impending "aim and purpose" to differentiate between the killing of "humans......vs.........animals". Consequently I did not go in the direction of "further explanation" that you, so nicely, did. I completely concur with your explanation, in that, you are right on point, my friend.

Thanks again for your "valuable input"!


Your friend, brother, and servant.............kreagle

[Joe Akulis]

kreagle, I'll leave the reincarnation stuff alone for now, unless there are others who express a desire to expolore that some more. You're answering the way most christian evangelicals do, so there's no point in pushing that topic, but I decided to pop back on and get your take on something else as I'm very curious about your thoughts on this one as well. It has to do with ET's. The more I have learned over the past two decades, from a lot of different directions, has pretty much convinced me that there are lots of different races from lots of other places. Once I started to think this, I had a problem, because you won't hear many priests talk as if that is a possiblity... Is there room in the bible for us to be one of thousands of races spread all over the universe? Is there room in the bible for the notion of multiple "dimensions"? Because when I think about the possibility of a 4th or 5th dimension where there could be other beings reaching into third dimension to assist us, I automatically relate that to what we describe as angels. How about you? Ever read any good ET books, or watch a good Ancient Aliens show and get convinced?

[kreagle]

Posted by peterpam (here)
You also appear to have developed an admiration for the concept of "reincarnation".

First of all welcome Seeker 1972 I appreciate your heartfelt comments. I would like to get past the intellectualism of the scriptures for a minute. I too have studied the bible in the past so I am not ignorant of it..What I would like us to use our god given logic for a minute...Do you really want to worship a god that gives you one chance to figure everything out in this hellhole of civilization or you are going to hell?????? The more important question is do you want to be a worshiper of a tyrant who would do that? And one more thing-Does an all powerful god really want worship and adoration...What would you think of a mere human that had those requirements??I would call him a psychopath...This is not meant to be disrespectful but all the intellectual tearing apart of these verses reminds of of the Pharisee's of old.

peterpam,


Welcome to 'Avalon', in that it also appears you are relatively 'new' here, too.

In your comments you state........

I too have studied the bible in the past so I am not ignorant of it..

No doubt, in your 'studies', of God and His Word, you have come to the point of 'visualizing the fullness of God'. Evidently you don't like what you see.


Romans 11:22 KJV
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:,......


Yes, the Apostle Paul gives us all an 'accurate visualisation', here, of the 'big picture',....to which many people simply cannot handle. Instead of 'continuing your studies', so that you might fully understand the 'fullness of God', you appear to have chosen to join 'this ever growing crowd' of offended individuals. This is certainly within your 'rights and privilege',....if this is the path you wish to follow.

I wish you nothing but the best, my friend,......but candidly I must advise you to,.....'continue your studies'! You don't know what you are missing!


Your friend, brother, and servant.......kreagle

[kreagle]

seeker1972,

I've got a 'reply' for you,.....but I'm going to be 'out of pocket' for a little while. I will be able to give you a 'complete answer' later on, sometime late this evening.

You've brought up a 'very interesting subject',......and yes,.......there's 'something out there'!

Later,......my brother!


Your friend, brother, and servant.........kreagle

[Frogweaver]

Posted by kreagle (here)
It is certainly correct to say that "thou shalt not kill",.....which, in reality is the Sixth Commandment, and not the First. One needs to realize, though, that God made this law, (Commandment), in reference to "human life" and not from the viewpoint that we, humans, were not to eat meat. It is in "strict violation" of God's Law to take life, or kill, each other, as humans,....but we have His blessings when it comes to "killing animals", in order to have meat to eat.

The following "passages of Scripture" should help you to see this......


1) Genesis 1:29-30

2) Leviticus 11: 46-47

3) Acts 10: 9-16


(notice: I will be happy to "expound" on the above passages, for you, Frogweaver, if you need any further assistance about this.)

another partial quote by you........

Jesus said "Heaven and Earth are more likely to disappear then the universal laws." He also said, "Judge and you will be judged". "Condemn and be condemned". Why then do Christians continue to say that masters like Buddha are in hell?.. or anyone?.. not only are they condemning and judging, but they are ignoring the fact that any man who lives by God's laws are doing God's will..

You, quite frankly, are "completely correct", Frogweaver, when you plainly state that "Christians",...(whoever they might be),....are completely "out-of-line" when it comes to "them" taking on the role of a "judge". It's when "they" do this that "they" are, in all honesty, placing "themselves" in the role of being "the ultimate Judge", whether they fully recognize it, or not! God doesn't need any help being God,......He is fully capable of "filling this Office,.....all by Himself"!

Hence we have the Scripture that you have alluded to, here.......


Matthew 7:1-2
King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


I'm afraid that too many "Christians",.....in their zeal to be God/Christ-like,....take things "entirely too far",.....and consequently are deceived into thinking that they are God, too, and are "ordained to judge, also"! This is a grave, grave, mistake!

I will respectfully submit, here, that we "all" better leave the "Office of God,....to God"!


Thank you, my dear friend, for your "valued input"!

I sincerely hope you will become a "regular", here on this thread!


Your friend, brother, and servant,.........kreagle

Hi Kreagle, and thanks for your kind reply. I don't want to get too in to bible debate, so im sorry; even if that is the purpose of the thread, but it is my belief that all religions are the same, and they all point to the same truth. We are talking about scripture, and not necessarily the 'accepted' truth of what religious people believe, but our beliefs about the scripture and its foundation of truth. For in Buddhism you find the same truth. The same Laws of God, although spoken differently. And in Buddhism they teach that eating flesh is bad, and that eating animals is like cannibalism. I feel strongly that man should not eat animals, so that we may evolve to be greater.

In kind regards to what you said, yes somehow I missed that it wasn't the first commandment! hah. Let me make it clear that I am not religious and don't believe Jesus to be the only path to Heaven. Period. He was a prophet of God and I love him as I love God, this is true. . yet I don't believe that Jesus wished people to only follow him or worship him as an idol, for why else would he say "But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void." It is all about understanding the laws, god's laws, and the universal laws.. Jesus said, "A disciple is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully qualified will be like the teacher." This must mean that we can become like Jesus, enlightened masters.. Jesus has demonstrated that there are others like him, and if we obey god's law then we are like god as well, and this applies to Buddha, and master Ching Hai, and many others. Maybe not prophets.. "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I tell you?"

With regards to the eating of flesh.

Genesis: states that animals are for humans to rule over, not to eat. Please state where it says that they are for us to eat in the book of genesis. It says clearly that the food of humans was planned to be plants and vegetables, etc. When you rule over something, it does not mean eating it; such as ruling over a people.

Genesis:
"God said, "see, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has breath of life, I have given every plant for food."

At least, this is how it was in the days of Eden. We changed. .

So, I don't see how genesis supports eating of flesh. Animals we rule over yes, so that they can become like us, so that they can have opportunities to incarnate as human, as every living being desires to have.. just as we need a master greater then ourselves to become greater, so do animals!.. this is why we rule over them. But the bible does not explain everything about heaven and earth.. you need other scriptures to understand it, or teachings from other enlightened masters.

Leviticus: People offered burnt offerings to the supposed God.. but when have you ever known god to need burnt offerings?...this wasn't god in my opinion. The Mayans followed a similar path.. In this same chapter you learn of the 'clean animals to eat'.. You see a lot of 'killing in the name of the lord' in the old testament. And in my opinion, it wasn't God that instructed killing and murder.. for eternal God does not need such things.. it is not the God I have gotten to know in my recent awakening.. not a God that would ever want such things.. because God is inside all of us, and the God inside you loves all beings, and therefore does not wish them harm. This would surely never change as god is the unchanging god behind all of us.

What is NOT in the bible, is what is happening in this forum and in this age we are living in. We are evolving, and hopefully to be more compassionate and conscious human beings that do not kill.... if we continue to eat animals, then this world will be destroyed from global warming.. animal agriculture is the leading cause... it sounds like karma to me. Not a very smart god who would advocate eating flesh, when the karma from this act is destroying us as we populate..

"Foods for the belly and belly for foods, but god should destroy both it and them".. Here today we have a choice about what we can eat.. we can go back to the days of Eden, or we can destroy ourselves by continuing to eat meat.. the belly is not for your enjoyment of food. It is for survival. it is LOGICAL!

Acts: In this particular reference, it seems like an unlikely scenario. I'm sorry but I don't accept every word of this bible, or; collection of scriptures, (tampered with or not) as truth. It doesn't sound true. I like consistency, and what I don't like is the idea that this god of the bible is less loving then my own neighbor. I don't believe that permission even equates to gracefulness, especially when the times change, and the laws are different to follow according to the times you are in.

Thou Shalt Not Kill. Does not mean thou shalt not kill humans. Otherwise it would say this.. this is such a non-universal viewpoint to assume it is just humans... what a twisted world we live in!


The Purpose of the Parables.
'Looking they may not perceive, and listening they may not understand"......

The Lawyer who stood up to test Jesus.
"'And who is my neighbor?'
Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took out two denari, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, 'take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend. Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?' He said, 'The one who shows him mercy." Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

Why are animals not our neighbors? are we to rule over them and not be neighbors? are we to be poor masters and cook them for dinner?.. what would Jesus do? did he ever hunt for food? other then a few fish, for what was left over to feed the multitude.. that is grace friend.

We see animals eating other animals, and we think.. 'if they do it, then we can too', but they are not our masters. Only since the days of Eden does it seem to be the way of things, as animals have learned aggressive nature from us.. if we want the lion to lay down for the lamb, then we have to do it first.

One law of the universe is; Karma. Another is; the law of attraction. We will reap what we sow with the blood we spill to animals, and we will attract more death and violence. What do you envision for paradise?... meat eaters?..... it sounds like the past all over again.

[kreagle]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
kreagle, I'll leave the reincarnation stuff alone for now, unless there are others who express a desire to expolore that some more. You're answering the way most christian evangelicals do, so there's no point in pushing that topic, but I decided to pop back on and get your take on something else as I'm very curious about your thoughts on this one as well. It has to do with ET's. The more I have learned over the past two decades, from a lot of different directions, has pretty much convinced me that there are lots of different races from lots of other places. Once I started to think this, I had a problem, because you won't hear many priests talk as if that is a possiblity... Is there room in the bible for us to be one of thousands of races spread all over the universe? Is there room in the bible for the notion of multiple "dimensions"? Because when I think about the possibility of a 4th or 5th dimension where there could be other beings reaching into third dimension to assist us, I automatically relate that to what we describe as angels. How about you? Ever read any good ET books, or watch a good Ancient Aliens show and get convinced?

seeker1972,

Finally back, and now able to give you a more 'in depth answer', or my take as I see it, on the 'topic called ET's'. As I alluded to, earlier,.....I know 'something is out there', in that there are way to many credible sitings, and evidences, from a wide variety of people. The calibre of people who have come forth to testify, basically convinces me that they are not just 'making this up'. 'Everybody' associated with these sitings and events cannot possibly be "all" lying, of that I am quite convinced. As I told someone before,.....I, personally, have never seen an UFO, alien (ET), myself,....but I also have never actually seen a 'tornado' in person, either!,...( just video footage, only). Just because I've never actually 'seen a tornado with my own eyes' doesn't mean that they don't exist,....for they certainly do, in that I have personally witnessed the devastation that they leave behind! Yes,.....something is out there,.....but what?

I have covered this 'topic', in some of my previous posts, but will gladly do so again,.....drawing from my understanding of the Bible.

Simply put, these 'entities' are nothing more than the 'fallen angels', who were cast down to the earth, along with Lucifer (Satan),...when he endeavored to 'exalt himself' and said,...."I will exalt my throne",......and,......."I will be like the most High". (Isaiah 14:12-15)

They are ED's,....(extra-dimensionals),.....not....ET's., and their 'agenda is to deceive mankind', my friend.

Deception is their game,....and they are very good at it!

(point)

Just how successful do you think they would be,...."if" they were to readily admit that they are , indeed, ED's, (demonic entities,...."fallen angels"), like they really are and have been from the very beginning?

By posing to be something that they are "not",...ET's...., they are then able to accomplish their "agenda",.....that is to ultimately "rend souls away from God".

They also know that the "ET" appearance and phenomena is something that "we" humans will "buy......hook, line and sinker"! This has been an "extremely easy sale" for them over the last "several thousand years".

As with any "sale",........"BUYER BEWARE"!!!!

Is there room in the bible for us to be one of thousands of races spread all over the universe?

There is 'plenty of room in the Bible for us,....and ED's',.......but from a Biblical standpoint, I can find no room, or place, for ET's.


Let me explain........


You see,......."us",......and the "fallen angels", (or ED's),.....can easily be found and accounted for within the Scriptural Texts,...the Bible.

A "ET standpoint",......(from another 'planet, solar system, galaxy, etc.),......cannot be found, at all, or accounted for within the Scriptural Texts,....the Bible.

In reality, everything is Biblically, and logically, cleared up when we 'understand and realize' who they really are,....(ED's, extra-dimensionals.....or "fallen angels")!



And yes,......they are very much, REAL!

But so is 'our God'!, my dear friend!


Romans 8:31
King James Version (KJV)

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?


Your friend, brother, and servant........kreagle

[kreagle]

Frogweaver,

There are a 'few points' that I'd like to go ahead and clear up with you before we go any further.

I don't want to get too in to bible debate, so im sorry; even if that is the purpose of the thread

I think I need to advise you to go back to the OP and read what I posted,....then click on the thread by Kristin, Avalon moderator, which I have also linked, again, here for your convenience.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...083#post528083


This OP, and the posts that are contained in it, is not designed for a 'debate', but for 'Biblical enrichment' to "all" who wish to participate. That certainly includes you, too,.....along these 'described lines'. You state that you don't want to get in a Bible debate,....and nor do I,....and won't, my friend. If you will, once again, click on Kristin's link, you will find that she 'suggested that a Bible debate thread' could be started by anyone who desired to do so,.....but I won't participate if one develops.

In kind regards to what you said, yes somehow I missed that it wasn't the first commandment! hah. Let me make it clear that I am not religious and don't believe Jesus to be the only path to Heaven. Period. He was a prophet of God and I love him as I love God, this is true. . yet I don't believe that Jesus wished people to only follow him or worship him as an idol, for why else would he say "But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void." It is all about understanding the laws, god's laws, and the universal laws.. Jesus said, "A disciple is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully qualified will be like the teacher." This must mean that we can become like Jesus, enlightened masters.. Jesus has demonstrated that there are others like him, and if we obey god's law then we are like god as well, and this applies to Buddha, and master Ching Hai, and many others. Maybe not prophets.. "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I tell you?"

Now that you've revealed that you ascribe to the Buddhists faith, I understand where you are coming from with your opposition to killing and eating any kind of animals. This is absolutely your right to choose this 'faith' to believe in,.....but I have to tell you that your 'belief system' will not be in harmony with the Biblical Scriptures that we are talking about, here.

This is 'why' we are having problems,.....right from the start,.....as we meet, here, in this discussion, on this particular thread,....."Bible Topics and Questions".

You may have noticed also, that another fellow Avalonian, Levent tonga, has since started his own thread named,....."The Noble Qur'an Topics and Questions", just yesterday. What a 'coincidence'!!!

Perhaps it would be advisable for you to start your own thread,...."Buddhists' Topics and Questions", or whatever you may choose, and then you should be able to proceed with your faith in harmony with your chosen beliefs!


I must say, in closing, my friend Frogweaver, that I, in no way, am trying to avoid your 'many questions' that you've brought up,....it's just the 'answers' I am going to give you to virtually each one of them are not going to be in harmony with the 'Buddhist faith' that you have currently chosen for yourself. To continue under these circumstances would create nothing but anguish for yourself,....me,....and the many others who wish to ascribe to the Christian faith outlined in the Bible.

There were 'many Scriptures' that I,.....began to use,....then thought about it,....and consequently 'erased' and did not use, at all,....in my response to you, here. I have absolutely no desire to 'challenge you', here, because that would be completely counter productive and contrary to the design of the OP.

I hope you understand. I wish you nothing but the best, my friend


Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[Joe Akulis]

Hmm. I think I see your viewpoint. Any time someone thinks they are dealing with a being from some other place, it's simply a fallen angel using that ... manifestation?... of the ET to mess us up. Which means we are alone in this universe... Perhaps the rest of the universe is simply awaiting our evolution, so that we may extend our human frontiers out into it.

Do all ETs have to be evil manifestations created by malevolent, fallen angels? Why couldn't a benevolent, non-fallen angel use the same technique to do something to help one or more of us? There are an awful lot of UFO/ET experiencers who don't feel like the being/s they interacted with were evil... And didn't Jesus say something about evil being unable to masquerade as the light?

[Frogweaver]

Thanks Kreagle, and you are wrong about me being a Buddhist.

I simply stated that all religions are the same and point to the same truth of God.

The holy ghost is something that can be felt by non-christians as well; like I.

It's not that I'm afraid your words will not be in line with my beliefs Kreagle, it's just that I'm worried your beliefs aren't in line with the times we're in.

The Word of God; I believe many think this means the words of the bible.. (even though they've been translated)... but the word of god existed before the bible did. And the word of God is SOUND.. vibration and light. For example: the quan yin method of meditaition, given by master Ching Hai, gives people instant enlightenment through which they can connect with God, and it is a meditation on your inner light and sound vibration. Truth is the word of god.


"God said, "see, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has breath of life, I have given every plant for food."

If anything is to be responded to, then let it be that.. what do you make of this quote?..why does it say that our food is to be plants and fruit, if we are meant to eat meat?..


With Love and Respect,
Frogweaver

[Joe Akulis]

Frogweaver.... One problem with the quote you gave. If that is the word of God: that everthing that creeps and has breath of life has been given every plant for food, then, uhm, what's a crocodile doing here? Or a tiger... You don't usually see a shark eating plants... Are all of these things abominations? I think we can assume then that the albacore was not given for sharks to rule over... And when the Israelites were in the desert after they left Egypt, and they were at risk of starvation, one of God's miracles ... didn't a giant flock of game birds come flying in? Soo... "Thou shalt not kill unless you are starving and/or your species is unable to digest kelp?" Okay, I'll give you one point I see coming, that the partridges that flew into the Israelite camp may not have been sent from God, and they wrongly attributed serendipity to a miracle.

I do agree with you that we need to cut way back on the meat eating. But I don't think that it was never supposed to be on the plate. Seems like our creator designed things certain ways. So maybe look at it like this. A cow's digestive system is tailor made for eating grass. You however, try to eat a couple pounds of fress grass without boiling it first, and you will probably have issues. Perhaps if we weren't meant to eat flesh, we would've been given digestive systems that wouldn't allow it to begin with. Just a thought. And another one behind that: If the planet started running out of grass to eat, would the digestive system of a cow begin evolving to allow him to survive on other things? Cows that eat crickets and grasshoppers perhaps? Hmm. That would imply that "every plant for food" would kinda be getting taken back by God though...

:-) Fun stuff to wonder about.

[Beren]

Reading responses here made me think of this next simple thing;
namely you and me are currently living somewhere on Earth. Now we have neighborhoods and neighborhoods.
In some you `d want to live all the time but in some you`d be away of.

With some you don`t bother to even pass since they are ugly or others are dangerous by your opinion.
but some are just gorgeous and for some you heard they are cool and great!

What`s the common thing here?

The mutual point for all this is that we`re not alone. Simply because you`ve never been into other places around it doesn`t mean they ARE ugly or bad or even good.

You`d have to experience them first hand to see what you`re dealing with.

Same is with other beings in vastness of the universe.
Be them ED`s or ET`s it doesn`t matter, they are all part of God almighty.

We have instance of Paul saying that he knows a person (and then adds that he doesn`t know either in body or out of body) has experiences different levels of heaven and heard words that are unspeakable to this level of consciousness on Earth.
There was one explanation and I can`t remember where that actual translation was that what that man saw was unspeakable simply because he didn`t understood what he was seeing and didn`t know how to describe things there,thus unspeakable.

I want to point out that there are many things in Bible spoken of in where one has to rely on holy spirit for understanding and does not block the answer from spirit when it comes.

If the answer isn`t what you expected for then maybe it`s time to broaden your vista. To grow in understanding.

Why Jesus said to them that if they don`t eat his flesh and drink his blood that they would not survive?

Was that a blasphemy???

For many it was.

We need to grow in Christ.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Now speaking about food, first what they ate in garden was fruits only.
But reading deeper one sees that they barely needed food at all!
They were in perfect body soul spirit connection and I am inclined to think that if they wouldn`t eat they would be OK concerning that they were united with God directly.

[kreagle]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
Hmm. I think I see your viewpoint. Any time someone thinks they are dealing with a being from some other place, it's simply a fallen angel using that ... manifestation?... of the ET to mess us up. Which means we are alone in this universe... Perhaps the rest of the universe is simply awaiting our evolution, so that we may extend our human frontiers out into it.

Do all ETs have to be evil manifestations created by malevolent, fallen angels? Why couldn't a benevolent, non-fallen angel use the same technique to do something to help one or more of us? There are an awful lot of UFO/ET experiencers who don't feel like the being/s they interacted with were evil... And didn't Jesus say something about evil being unable to masquerade as the light?

seeker1972,


You bring up a very interesting point, my friend.

Why couldn't a benevolent, non-fallen angel use the same technique to do something to help one or more of us?

These 'non-fallen angels',...(the good guys),.....that you refer to, here, do exactly this! They literally 'minister to the heirs of salvation',.....as seen in this passage.....


Hebrews 1:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Furthermore, the Apostle Paul warns the saints to always be 'hospitable' towards every 'stranger you might meet',......for you might never know just who you are 'actually entertaining'!


Hebrews 13:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

There are an awful lot of UFO/ET experiencers who don't feel like the being/s they interacted with were evil...

This, my friend, is what can make this 'encounter' even more dangerous, in that the contactee doesn't even realize,.....'what they are truly dealing with'! Just because an 'entity',...(fallen angel, or ED) doesn't appear to be 'evil' doesn't mean that they, in fact,.....are indeed EVIL! It's all part of their 'deceptive plan'. This is the only 'mode of operation' that Satan and his minions utilize,.....and that's 'lies and deception', my dear friend.

And didn't Jesus say something about evil being unable to masquerade as the light?

The Apostle Paul clears this up for us also! Notice this 'piece of advice' that he gave to the 'church at Corinth' during one of his visits there.......

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.


You see, seeker1972,.....even though 'these angels fell' it doesn't mean that they lost any of their 'properties' as an 'angelic being'! They, quite frankly, were still 'beings of light',......but now no longer the 'beings of THE LIGHT'! They were no longer His, (God's), representatives,.......but his, (Satan's)!

This is what can make 'their deception' even stronger to recognize,.....and the only accurate way we are able to 'recognize' their many 'deceptive ploys upon mankind' is to be 'filled with the actual Spirit of God, Himself,....and that's the Holy Ghost"!!!

(an 'extremely important' point!!!)

A 'spirit-filled child of God' has nothing to fear, in reference to being approached or contacted by one of these ED, (fallen angels),...or even Satan himself! They don't want anything to do with a 'child of God'! I can assure you,....they 'fully recognize God indwelling in this individual',.....as the 'same God' that they so foolishly rebelled against in Heaven, causing them to be expelled for ever more!

Furthermore,.....the only 'weapon' that the 'spirit-filled child of God' need use against Satan and his minions,....is to invoke, or say, the 'precious name of JESUS'!!! They cannot stand in the presence of His name! The name of JESUS will cause them to flee,.....every time!

Philippians 2:9-10
King James Version (KJV)

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

I hope this helps you, my friend!


Your friend, brother, and servant........kreagle

[ghostrider]

The main thing is knowing God is spirit, Jesus is flesh. ONE and the same. I am in the father and the father in me. flesh is in the spirit and spirit is in the flesh. the word trinity does not appear in scripture... The revelation of Jesus . What ever name you want , allah , budda , etc it's all ONE SPIRIT. That spirit will reveal the word or hide it depending on your heart being pure. People read the word and get sleepy, others read it and can't put it down.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
And didn't Jesus say something about evil being unable to masquerade as the light?

Quite the contrary, we are told that Satan masquerades as an Angel (Messenger) of light. In fact, anti-Christ means instead of Christ which is sort of like Splenda or Equal being "instead of sugar" or "anti-Sugar".

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

We were warned that Lucifer / Satan would pretend to be Christian, use the church, and do things within it and through it with lies and deception, but it does not mean the foundation is wrong, just those who would remain ignorant and not understand the truth. Most never really read or study the bible so they only know what they've been told.

[kreagle]

Frogweaver,

Who is your 'master Ching Hai'? Is he Buddhist? Sorry if I 'read you wrong',....but brother, you sure had a 'strong sale' going on there, regarding the Buddhist's faith. The entire matter was 'further complicated' with your adamant views and defense of 'abstaining from meats/not killing animals, etc.',...in that this is certainly a 'strong Buddhist belief' from my limited understanding on Buddhism.

What does your 'master Ching Hai' say about Jesus' Divinity,.....or the New Testament, specifically? Does he accept Him or His Divine nature? You've already expressed your disapproval of many texts in the 'Old and New Testament',....does he feel the same way? Am I safe, or accurate, in saying that their may be 'some passages in the Christian Bible' that you agree with,.....but many that you don't and consequently reject?

(point)

I promise you that I'm not trying to be 'problematic', here, for you. I'm just trying to figure out how we can conduct a 'fruitful dialogue' under the circumstances we have discussed thus far.

Love and Peace,......kreagle

[wynderer]

after the first time i met Jesus the Living Christ -- i have met Him as both Jesus the Man, & as the Living Christ -- one & the same, yet not [ the flesh & the Spirit -- both are good, the God/Creator's creation]-- i began going to churches, looking for Him there ['wherever 2 or 3 are gathered...'] --

so much division -- so much excluding of so many others who do not 'belong' to the 'Christian' faith/church

in despair one night i reached out to Him for an answer -- He answered, w/His Presence, & w/these words: 'Where ever Love Is, there I Am'

Posted by ghostrider (here)
The main thing is knowing God is spirit, Jesus is flesh. ONE and the same. I am in the father and the father in me. flesh is in the spirit and spirit is in the flesh. the word trinity does not appear in scripture... The revelation of Jesus . What ever name you want , allah , budda , etc it's all ONE SPIRIT. That spirit will reveal the word or hide it depending on your heart being pure. People read the word and get sleepy, others read it and can't put it down.

[Beren]

That's right wynderer!

Love is the key that opens all doors.
But Love is an energy that is wondrous in many ways and has to be lived.

Many times would Christ say things that were very harsh to an ignorant or lower level of conscience-man or woman just to see do they grasp the Love which is free of religion .

Christ is God in flesh and now in spirit.
And people are accustomed on religious institution for a guidance.
What better institution we have than in Living God???

[Joe Akulis]

Thank you for your reply kreagle. You reaffirm some of the things that I felt about my traditional Christian upbringing. One of those being that there isn't room for other civilizations in other places. Anyone who begins to believe in the existence of ETs--be they hostile, friendly, or ambivalent toward us--eventually will have a stressful, troubled period to go through as they start to expand their beliefs beyond what the church gave them. It's not easy, because they most likely have this "thing" hanging over their head that makes them think they are playing games with their salvation, and risking their eternal soul... I do remember Pope John Paul II once said that if ETs did exist, it would present us with a great opportunity to teach Christ risen to them. But something tells me a lot of them already know who he is. Just a hunch from a wayward soul who has been badly deceived, I suppose.

I'm probably becoming a pest at this point, but I have another question if you're interested. It has to do with predestination. This was the kicker for me. Do you believe that a person born into a muslim household who is taught to hate certain people from a very young age, who goes and blows himself up in a market in order to whack as many infidels as he can... Do you believe he is headed to hell for all eternity?

[kreagle]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
Thank you for your reply kreagle. You reaffirm some of the things that I felt about my traditional Christian upbringing. One of those being that there isn't room for other civilizations in other places. Anyone who begins to believe in the existence of ETs--be they hostile, friendly, or ambivalent toward us--eventually will have a stressful, troubled period to go through as they start to expand their beliefs beyond what the church gave them. It's not easy, because they most likely have this "thing" hanging over their head that makes them think they are playing games with their salvation, and risking their eternal soul... I do remember Pope John Paul II once said that if ETs did exist, it would present us with a great opportunity to teach Christ risen to them. But something tells me a lot of them already know who he is. Just a hunch from a wayward soul who has been badly deceived, I suppose.

I'm probably becoming a pest at this point, but I have another question if you're interested. It has to do with predestination. This was the kicker for me. Do you believe that a person born into a muslim household who is taught to hate certain people from a very young age, who goes and blows himself up in a market in order to whack as many infidels as he can... Do you believe he is headed to hell for all eternity?

seeker1972,

Thank you, brother, for your continued support and 'valuable input'! Please get the silly notion out of your head that,...."I'm probably becoming a pest at this point,...."! On the contrary, my dear friend!

I have another question if you're interested. It has to do with predestination. This was the kicker for me. Do you believe that a person born into a Muslim household who is taught to hate certain people from a very young age, who goes and blows himself up in a market in order to whack as many infidels as he can... Do you believe he is headed to hell for all eternity?[/

A situation, like you are referring to above, is very tragic and unfortunate, to say the least. Your 'example', here, is a perfect one, in showing and highlighting the awesome responsibility we have as parents to 'properly' raise and instruct our children.


Proverbs 22:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


Tragically we see that this 'Godly principle' can also work in 'reverse' when it is employed in the 'wrong direction'! A 'young mind' is so impressionable! No wonder Jesus expressed such fondness towards 'little children'.


In my answer to you about the misguided Muslim,....I must, once again, go back to what I have earlier said in a reply to Frogweaver.


Matthew 7:1-2
King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


I'm afraid that too many "Christians",.....in their zeal to be God/Christ-like,....take things "entirely too far",.....and consequently are deceived into thinking that they are God, too, and are "ordained to judge, also"! This is a grave, grave, mistake!

I will respectfully submit, here, that we "all" better leave the "Office of God,....to God"!


My advice to you is to simply not 'clutter up your mind' over situations like this, and simply 'turn it over to God'. If you will adopt this policy on a 'regular basis' you will one day find that it won't be necessary to 'turn it over' any more,.......for you will have reached the point,.....where you 'never had it in the first place'! Then you will come to the full realisation that you are 'free'! That should bring a 'big smile' on your face, my dear friend!


God richly bless you, my dear friend!,............kreagle

P.S. ( write back, soon!)

[kreagle]

Posted by Frogweaver (here)
Thanks Kreagle, and you are wrong about me being a Buddhist.

I simply stated that all religions are the same and point to the same truth of God.

The holy ghost is something that can be felt by non-christians as well; like I.

It's not that I'm afraid your words will not be in line with my beliefs Kreagle, it's just that I'm worried your beliefs aren't in line with the times we're in.

The Word of God; I believe many think this means the words of the bible.. (even though they've been translated)... but the word of god existed before the bible did. And the word of God is SOUND.. vibration and light. For example: the quan yin method of meditaition, given by master Ching Hai, gives people instant enlightenment through which they can connect with God, and it is a meditation on your inner light and sound vibration. Truth is the word of god.


"God said, "see, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has breath of life, I have given every plant for food."

If anything is to be responded to, then let it be that.. what do you make of this quote?..why does it say that our food is to be plants and fruit, if we are meant to eat meat?..


With Love and Respect,
Frogweaver

Frogweaver,


I have, at your request, taken a 'closer look' at the issue that you seem to be 'hung up on',......and have a response for you, my friend.

First, here is your quote......

"God said, "see, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has breath of life, I have given every plant for food."

If anything is to be responded to, then let it be that.. what do you make of this quote?..why does it say that our food is to be plants and fruit, if we are meant to eat meat?..

Frogweaver, in regards to your 'adamant rejection' of killing animals/eating meats, (another hallmark trait of Buddhist's),..... I suppose that must come from the teachings of your 'master Ching Hai',....( I have no idea who he is).

Actually, seeker1972, gave some 'excellent replies' to you about this!

The 'Genesis account' on food to be eaten,....is as follows......

Genesis 1:28-30
King James Version (KJV)

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Now to your credit, Frogweaver, some of my fellow Christian comrades, here, basically feel that there was 'no eating of meats, (animals), to begin with. I certainly wasn't there, nor you, nor my comrades, to personally witness this. If you wish to adamantly believe that they didn't,.....then do exactly that, my friend.

The wording, here, in the Genesis' account of man's dietary menu, is somewhat intriguing to me, for it is basically a 'continuous and flowing thought' in text, with no 'periods' in some cases and 'no exclusions', especially. You see, the way I read it, God does not, in any way, specifically 'exclude animals,..( ie. beasts,....fowl of the air,....everything that creepeth,....fish of the sea,....wherein there is life),....from this 'dietary menu for mankind' that He lays down, here in Genesis. It goes without saying that this 'prescribed menu from God',.....does indeed contain,....every herb bearing seed,.....the fruit of a tree yielding seed,....and every green herb,.....BUT,....I don't see where He 'excluded' the animals, beasts, fowl of the air, fish of the sea, and everything that creepeth! In 'all my dealings with God',....I've never known Him to be hap-hazard in His overall 'planning efforts'. If anything, He is a very detailed, structured and organized God,.....down to the most minute detail!

If you will go back and look at the 'passages that I've highlighted' in your quote above, you'll notice that 'sandwiched in between the green texts, (fruits, herbs, etc.) are where the meat, (animals, fish, fowl) portion are'. Sounds to me like a 'legitimate sandwich' to me!

I respectfully submit to 'each of you' that there was a very valid reason 'why' these 'beasts, fowl of the air, fish of the sea, and everything that creepeth' were specifically mentioned in this Genesis' account, (these 3 verses), in reference to 'mankind's dietary menu'!

If anyone wishes to believe otherwise,......that's your choice to do so.

The 'Old Testament' goes on to give many accounts where mankind, indeed partook of eating meats, (animals), fishes, and fowl of the air,.....as seeker1972 pointed out, so well. The only 'exception to this rule' were whether they were considered to be 'clean or unclean' in the eyes of God,....as to whether they could be 'consumed or not'. (The account is recorded in the Book of Leviticus)( You appear to completely question and reject the Bible's account, here)


The 'New Testament' basically is a continuation of the same,....with the 'addition' of many new meats,(animals), that were formerly considered 'unclean' by God,....but now accepted by Him. (note: this account and proof is found in the Book of Acts,....which you seem to question, or deny, It's authority, also.)


Maybe you can begin to see why it may be 'very difficult', if not downright impossible, to have a 'fruitful dialogue' with you as you seemingly have no difficulty in rejecting any written 'Biblical proof' that I, or anyone else here, may present to you.

Here is another quote from you on a 'previous post'.....

One law of the universe is; Karma. Another is; the law of attraction. We will reap what we sow with the blood we spill to animals, and we will attract more death and violence. What do you envision for paradise?... meat eaters?..... it sounds like the past all over again.

What do 'I' envision for paradise? I can only 'see with Biblical eyes, right now', in that I have to, once again, go to my 'Answer Book' and see what It tells me.

At the conclusion of the cataclysmic events, recorded in the Book of Revelation, the prophet Isaiah gave us a 'glimpse' of what the New Jerusalem was going to look, and be, like.

Isaiah 65:25
King James Version (KJV)

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.


Sounds like there's going to be a 'complete dietary change' to me, in reference to what we read from Isaiah's prophetic vision, doesn't it? This should make you 'very happy',....and I am, very much, looking forward to it myself,.....especially the 'peaceful conditions' that will usher in along with this!


Also take a look at the prophet Hosea's vision.......( a little 'lengthy' but worth the read!)


Hosea 2:14-23
King James Version (KJV)

14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.

17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;

22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.

23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

What a 'beautiful and overpowering' passage of Scripture this also is, in allowing us to get just a 'glimpse' of the future, when Jesus sets up His New Jerusalem.

Like I said, earlier,.....this is the 'only way' that I, or anyone else, can accurately 'envision what God has in store for us',....if we will only grasp what He 'has for us, right now' and 'faithfully continue' to the end, my friend.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

Your friend, brother, and servant........kreagle