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Thread: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
    Hello Chris and Everyone Else

    I just wanted to say how grateful I am for this wonderful thread...for me, it is of the best things about PA!
    Although I don't contribute very often, I am always popping in to see what's going being discussed - it's all good stuff so thanks!

    Love
    Kathie

    Thank you very much Kathie.

    Its the contributors that have kept it going and of course the guests.
    Never a cross word here, even though we may have a broad spectrum of opinion on the matter.

    Much love to you
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Ah, I guess I'm using a broader definition of ego that is inclusive of personality. Language is ever-problematic. I like the way this guy Anadi explains it. This is the idea I was ineptly trying to get across. I think he is better with words than I:

    "Due to their simplistic nature, traditional models of enlightenment do not offer sufficient conceptual protection against the menace of ego. Because enlightenment is commonly misunderstood as occurring through the annihilation of the ego, it is assumed that after awakening, no challenges on the level of our ego-identity remain. However, even though the supreme goal of evolution is transcendence of the mind and personality, the ego cannot be entirely dropped before our final liberation. Rather, the ego, as the intelligence of our relative consciousness, naturally accompanies us through each stage of our growth, witnessing the awakening of the inner states, consciousness, intelligence and the heart. In actuality, its purified presence supports our internal awakening.

    "The nature of ego is twofold. The aspect of ego that surrenders to the soul’s intent is in fact the very energy that the soul uses for her evolution towards light. However, as long as the ego is lost in the past and holds on to its ignorance, it inevitably hinders our evolution by continuing to rule our consciousness as host. Most seekers, irrespective of their relative awakening, experience the ego, or false me, as their center of identity. They are egos, not yet souls. Prior to soul-realization, the ego claims awakening, believing that it owns the inner state and the knowledge of I am. As it matures in its evolution, it begins to recognize that it was originally created to serve our awakening, and that its final destiny is to surrender itself to the soul. However, until the ego has been sufficiently cleansed with the light of higher intelligence, it will resist its own dissolution. Even after realizing its own unreality, it will continue to return through the back door to assert supremacy. This is the point where one usually proclaims: “I am enlightened!”, “I am a master!”, “I have reached…”, “I… I… I…”

    "Until the mind surrenders, we remain vulnerable to the ego’s impure tendencies. In the initial stages of its inner quest, the ego’s immaturity leads it to treat spirituality as a playground for its basic emotions. It uses spiritual practice to wallow in feelings of self-pity, lack of self-worth, guilt and shame; or alternately, to inflate itself with pride, arrogance and competitiveness. The spiritual ego is in fact quite worldly. Entering the path has not changed its basic neurotic nature, only the sphere of its activities. Now, instead of wanting fame or fortune, it wants to reach god or attain enlightenment. In both cases we encounter the same bogus ego displaying its vanity.

    "In its madness, the ego constantly seeks ways to sneak into spiritual territory. It tries to make itself special in one way or another by taking on ‘spiritual’ roles — holy man, rebel, eccentric, even redeemer. The idea of being holy may appeal to the ego because it craves respect, if not from others, at least from itself. Or perhaps it is more attracted to rebelliousness and prefers the role of an unholy character, enjoying the chance to show off how original it is. Maybe it wishes to become a healer or great master, for it finds the idea of helping others exciting. It might even believe that it has a unique role to play on earth and has been chosen for great things. But perhaps the most insidious way that the ego can assert itself is by assuming a stance of humility and devotion to magnify a false sense of piety. No matter what role the ego chooses to play, its performances are no more than pitiful attempts to maintain its fundamentally empty identity.

    "The more conscious we become, the more cautious we must be, for the ego’s games become increasingly sophisticated as we evolve. Letting go of the ego is not only the final goal of the inner path, but an unremitting act of becoming real inside. As cunning as it is, the ego ultimately has no way to succeed in manipulating the spiritual path for its own purposes. Sooner or later it must relinquish itself at the altar of our original self, for it has no essential reality — it does not exist apart from the illusory image it projects."
    Last edited by Mark; 1st September 2012 at 15:30.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Ah, I guess I'm using a broader definition of ego that is inclusive of personality. Language is ever-problematic.
    Yes language can be a problem. This is why I think it helps to look at ego in terms of its movement/activity in the body. It can be "sensed" or "felt" in the grasping and resisting.

    The grasping and resisting is the ego's desires and fears manifesting in a physical sensation.

    In contrast to the grasping and resisting we have our true nature which is "allowing". A sense of this can be felt physically when there is no grasping or resisting.

    At first we may not even realise that this grasping and resisting is happening but the more aware we become the more sensitive we will be to even the tiniest, subtle movements that it makes, which show us that the ego is at play.


    Quote I like the way this guy Anadi explains it. This is the idea I was ineptly trying to get across. I think he is better with words than I:

    "Due to their simplistic nature, traditional models of enlightenment do not offer sufficient conceptual protection against the menace of ego. Because enlightenment is commonly misunderstood as occurring through the annihilation of the ego, it is assumed that after awakening, no challenges on the level of our ego-identity remain. However, even though the supreme goal of evolution is transcendence of the mind and personality, the ego cannot be entirely dropped before our final liberation. Rather, the ego, as the intelligence of our relative consciousness, naturally accompanies us through each stage of our growth, witnessing the awakening of the inner states, consciousness, intelligence and the heart. In actuality, its purified presence supports our internal awakening.

    "The nature of ego is twofold. The aspect of ego that surrenders to the soul’s intent is in fact the very energy that the soul uses for her evolution towards light. However, as long as the ego is lost in the past and holds on to its ignorance, it inevitably hinders our evolution by continuing to rule our consciousness as host. Most seekers, irrespective of their relative awakening, experience the ego, or false me, as their center of identity. They are egos, not yet souls. Prior to soul-realization, the ego claims awakening, believing that it owns the inner state and the knowledge of I am. As it matures in its evolution, it begins to recognize that it was originally created to serve our awakening, and that its final destiny is to surrender itself to the soul. However, until the ego has been sufficiently cleansed with the light of higher intelligence, it will resist its own dissolution. Even after realizing its own unreality, it will continue to return through the back door to assert supremacy. This is the point where one usually proclaims: “I am enlightened!”, “I am a master!”, “I have reached…”, “I… I… I…”

    "Until the mind surrenders, we remain vulnerable to the ego’s impure tendencies. In the initial stages of its inner quest, the ego’s immaturity leads it to treat spirituality as a playground for its basic emotions. It uses spiritual practice to wallow in feelings of self-pity, lack of self-worth, guilt and shame; or alternately, to inflate itself with pride, arrogance and competitiveness. The spiritual ego is in fact quite worldly. Entering the path has not changed its basic neurotic nature, only the sphere of its activities. Now, instead of wanting fame or fortune, it wants to reach god or attain enlightenment. In both cases we encounter the same bogus ego displaying its vanity.

    "In its madness, the ego constantly seeks ways to sneak into spiritual territory. It tries to make itself special in one way or another by taking on ‘spiritual’ roles — holy man, rebel, eccentric, even redeemer. The idea of being holy may appeal to the ego because it craves respect, if not from others, at least from itself. Or perhaps it is more attracted to rebelliousness and prefers the role of an unholy character, enjoying the chance to show off how original it is. Maybe it wishes to become a healer or great master, for it finds the idea of helping others exciting. It might even believe that it has a unique role to play on earth and has been chosen for great things. But perhaps the most insidious way that the ego can assert itself is by assuming a stance of humility and devotion to magnify a false sense of piety. No matter what role the ego chooses to play, its performances are no more than pitiful attempts to maintain its fundamentally empty identity.

    "The more conscious we become, the more cautious we must be, for the ego’s games become increasingly sophisticated as we evolve. Letting go of the ego is not only the final goal of the inner path, but an unremitting act of becoming real inside. As cunning as it is, the ego ultimately has no way to succeed in manipulating the spiritual path for its own purposes. Sooner or later it must relinquish itself at the altar of our original self, for it has no essential reality — it does not exist apart from the illusory image it projects."
    That's a very good write up of how the ego plays out, particularly after the initial awakening and how it plays an important role in the whole process up to the point of liberation when it surrenders.

    Ramana said, you use a thorn to remove a thorn then throw both away. I think that is what he was saying.


    Jeanette

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Wow, there was a good traffic going on here on this thread this summer!
    Sad to say, but autumn started to say hello yesterday....
    Clear sky, nearly no noise from the insects, temperature was nicy nice.

    Summer is joyful and euphoric, it goes, autumn is great and melancholc, but it goes...
    After my summer break I see that you wonderful persons left a HUGE pile of good information and insights here

    I am eager to go through it and finally add my thoughts

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    The snake-- the serpent is the symbol for renewal and the Divine feminine--creator of the manifest from the un-manifest energy of the masculine Shiva
    The snake sheds its skin.
    The formless becomes all manifestation through Kundalini/Shakti including the illusion called Maya.

    This site is excellent.
    Not saying I agree with all of it--- I just dont know.

    Chris

    https://sites.google.com/site/kundal...lini-questions
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    A Quest Beyond the Limits of the Ordinary
    Rupert Sheldrake and Bruce Lipton

    Holographic universe etc

    Chris
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wXpnd...eature=related
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    David Sereda
    a recent and full interview.
    Touching on his spiritual experiences including meeting Christ in an out of body event.
    Also information on his UFO's sightings and film made with Dan Akroyd.
    Frankly some of it takes a lot of believing.
    On the whole I like it simple.
    Love God and your fellow man to the best of your ability does it for me.
    However I like to be open minded

    Chris

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=g-ckWjyFAts

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    On the whole I like it simple.
    Love God and your fellow man to the best of your ability does it for me.



    Does it for me

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Let Go. Surrender. Give Up.

    Just as I think I have done that, the realisation that there is more to let go of. The irony is that the act of surrender is so liberating and yet something avoids that moment at all costs and all the time I don't surrender, I suffer.


    Adyashanti - slip out of the driver's seat into the passenger seat.


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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Hi Jenci
    When K is awakened Shakti is in the driver seat and you are in the taxi being taken home (enlightenment)
    Resistance is futile--- and painful.
    You cant hurry or slow down the process it all happens in the Divine's time.
    You never get more than you can handle in a day-- as you well know-- smiling.
    The body nervous system is being upgraded to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
    There is quite a bit about this in the recent David Sereda interview just posted.

    With love chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Papaji talking about surrender.

    Filmed in 1993 - you may notice that the seeker that Papaji is speaking to is Mooji. This talk on surrender is in reponse to a letter that Mooji wrote to Papaji. The preceding video of Papaji reading the letter can be seen here, Mooji at Papaji's feet http://www.mooji.org/videos_classic.html



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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by Jenci (here)
    Let Go. Surrender. Give Up.

    Just as I think I have done that, the realisation that there is more to let go of. The irony is that the act of surrender is so liberating and yet something avoids that moment at all costs and all the time I don't surrender, I suffer.

    http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.c.../08/the-story/


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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Hi Jenci
    When K is awakened Shakti is in the driver seat and you are in the taxi being taken home (enlightenment)
    Resistance is futile--- and painful.
    You cant hurry or slow down the process it all happens in the Divine's time.
    You never get more than you can handle in a day-- as you well know-- smiling.
    The body nervous system is being upgraded to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
    There is quite a bit about this in the recent David Sereda interview just posted.

    With love chris

    Thanks Chris. Of course I know all of this but.......


    The resistance gets very painful these days but everything is happening exactly as it is meant to


    Jeanette

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by Jenci (here)
    Let Go. Surrender. Give Up.

    Just as I think I have done that, the realisation that there is more to let go of. The irony is that the act of surrender is so liberating and yet something avoids that moment at all costs and all the time I don't surrender, I suffer.

    http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.c.../08/the-story/



    It was all good reading, thanks Bob. I picked out this in particular.


    Quote At last comes a difficult chasm to cross: the breakthrough recognition that all of it — the whole story of “me and mine” — is simply a beaming projection of one’s own mind. To then turn around and plunge directly into the source of that mind — that’s what takes tremendous courage. It is most rare, most excellent.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
    Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
    Mind you am trying to let go of this I
    When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

    Namaste
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
    Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
    Mind you am trying to let go of this I
    When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

    Namaste

    Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere. I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......


    I find simple lines helpful to contemplate. I'm just reflecting on this one this morning by Alan Watts (Fred posted in the mantra thread https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post550295 at 6.20 minutes)


    "In the world of pure sound, can you find someone who is actually listening?

    Can you hear any difference between all these sounds on the one hand and yourself on the other?"



    Jeanette

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by Jenci (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
    Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
    Mind you am trying to let go of this I
    When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

    Namaste

    Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere. I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......

    http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.c.../30/surrender/



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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by Jenci (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
    Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
    Mind you am trying to let go of this I
    When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

    Namaste

    Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere. I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......

    http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.c.../30/surrender/


    Quote What is surrender? The surrender that can be done is not true surrender.

    Who surrenders to what? Who surrenders what?

    Good questions......

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    Conscious TV!!
    There is a wealth of spiritual interviews on this link.
    The most recent by the Physicist Dr Amit Goswami - 'Consciousness, Quantum Physics and Being Human'
    Once again Science and spirituality meet.
    Chris

    http://www.conscious.tv/
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

    I don't surrender anything. I went for the brass ring. I now ask, for nothing. I know who I am.

    You can be anything you wish to be.

    I, prefer, being me.

    love, peace, humor
    sirdipswitch

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