What will happen to unpaid mortgages?

[CivilDawn]

I don't know if this thread belongs here but here goes.

This thought occured to me just the other day that my family has not paid off the mortage on their house. My question is a simple one, and that is that if they have not paid it off by the time the SHTF, will they lose their home? In the past I haven't been very knowledgable about credit and lending bc I've always stayed away from it, but something tells me anything unpaid will default when the dollar becomes worthless..

Any input would help greatly.

[scarletfire]

Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

[donk]

The same place all my debt went I declared bankruptcy, back to the empty void from whence it came....

Oh sure, there's some "debt obligation" out there that still has "value", but like the dollar and all the other fake pieces of paper we "value", it is completely faith based.

Looking at the history of debt-based economies, historically they had to declare "jubilee" (forgiveness of debt) every 70 years or so...what is happening is now is not new. And supposedly, back then--most debts never went away--just got shuffled around. But these days, that **** got packaged the second it was sold, and now probably lives overseas with tons of its other fake never-to-be-paid brothers & sisters, in a Chinese owned mortgage-backed security (insured by an equally fake credit default obligation.

That is, if it wasn't involved in the AIG scam/Bear Stearns/TARP circle jerk. You never know, after all--every economist and even the creators said these deals (the securitization, CDOs, and CDSs and such) were soooo complicated the creators didn't even understand them. The mortgage-backed securities aren't as complex, but just as fraudulent. FNMA may have a piece. Some shady mortgage company, maybe.

But if I had to guess, there's a "good loan" on the original issuers, which is bull****, the actual "security" (it's funny that debt can be classified as such...almost as funny as "asset") is probably somewhere in big ****ing ball of mortgages...and some "risk manager" will be blamed for not ever thinking it would be possible to exceed the historical 5% default rate. And no one will care, except the sheep programmed to blame and hate you cuz they play by their precious system's rules.

Sorry for the pretty much uninformed rant. I stopped looking at this nonsense right around TARP...when I asked the questions:

Remember when billion (with a "b") was a big number?
Where does this money come from?
Wouldn't this path lead to some sort inflation issue?
And if I understand correctly, we are forcing all the banks (some that didn't even want it) to take pretty much no interest, from I guess "we the people", so they can bury these failed bets (lotta mortgages ended up in here), cuz society will collapse if we don't...did I get that right?

I asked the CEO of my bank at one of our "town meetings" after we found out we got eaten by a bigger bank:

you are saying that our "troubled assets" are the problem that caused this deal, and I remember from the last one of the meetings I went to a year or so back you talking about TARP. My understanding is that stands for "troubled asset relief program", apparently that didn't work out for us?

To which he responded: the program never worked the way it was supposed to.

Shocking, though I was prepared for that, seeing as my first question to him years ago at my first one of those handjobs which he kept talking about how "well capitalized" we are, I asked him what that meant. He gave a bull**** non-answer, to which I asked, well we are taught in school that there is some sort of capital reserve that you have to have as a percentage of assets, though it was never really clear to me what that was or where to find, it was always a "hypothetical 10% of deposits" to make the math easy--where can I find the scale of what constitutes "well capitalized", to which he spouted off about how there's many many measures and didn't even name, just left a vague "at least 3 or 4 that we like to use"....again, shocking.

Anyway, point of all this is, I used to think it'd be fun to find the answer to your question to your question. To start calling people and follow the trail of where my (defaulted) mortgage is (I know my house is sitting unoccupied as it has for years, and that I got a statement well after the sheriff sale with my mortgage in an account on the bank--and I know that they hadn't owned the mortgage well before that, as it was not them that came after me for it. Now, I am just so disgusted with faith based debt system of lies, where the rules change any time the powers that be (yeah--they still ARE, not WERE, and they keep this smoke and mirror **** going) need them to.

Michael Tellinger mentioned something about a "free man movement" where he is dealing with this stuff, it's one of the few econ related stories I have been able to stomach the last 4-5 years.

[Lone Bean]

I've often thought about this same problem myself. From what I can glean from other sources, it depends upon the severity of the collapse. If a total restart of our economic system is required, then I think everything will be restructured. If the banks owning our home mortgages fail and cease to exist, another bank will pick them up and we will still have to pay the mortgage. I can't find any concrete answers concerning this but I feel that if millions upon millions of homeowners defaulted on their loans, then the banks would be basically unable to do anything about them and we will still stay in our homes. How can the banks possible process all the defaulted loans and then send law enforcement out to evict us? I bet many law enforcement officers homes will also be in default and they won't be very interested in the bank's problems. Also, if something as severe as a major catastrophic solar flare/EMP happened knocking out our power grids nation-wide, then the last thing I'm worrying about is the bank coming to me for their money lol! There will be so many empty standing houses that if you wanted too, assuming you survive the mass die-off, that you could live in any of them you wanted. Just without any of the luxuries of course.

[donk]

Nice scarletfire, they are getting desperate. Think BoA actually paid that? I doubt it. Why should they...think they ever had the money to lend in the first place? Doubt it...

Banks do NOT want to own homes, they want to have good mortgages. I lived in my house for about 20 months I never paid for knowing that fact, and could have stretched it nearly indefinitely with the knowledge I picked up along the way--it's all out there, a lot of the stories are interesting too. Once you know the code (econ is just a bull**** language to hide relatively simple facts and info that would help the consumer), you can easily see how the game is rigged.

[we-R-one]

Posted by scarletfire (here)
Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

NO! Do not accept!!! I will tell u why when I get back to my computer. It's a trap!

[scarletfire]

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by scarletfire (here)
Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

NO! Do not accept!!! I will tell u why when I get back to my computer. It's a trap!

Haven't "accepted" yet, thanks for the heads up...showed it to a lawyer and she said it looks legit only thing is I'll have to claim it as income on next year's taxes. I'm confident that trapping folks is what the banks do best so I remain skeptical.

[DeBron]

Posted by scarletfire (here)
Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

Yes that is going on because they recently settled with several states because of all their very close to illegal lending practices. They offer that to a lot of people but ultimately a few thousand will qualify while most will not.

[we-R-one]

Ok, let me explain myself. First I will tell you I'm a former agent and recently went inactive, so I'm in the industry. One of the reasons I went inactive is because I no longer believe in home ownership under the current regime.....eerr, I mean, under the current leadership(smirk). I can no longer comfortably sell homes due to the fraud that is being committed behind the scenes within the mortgage industry. I'm actually going to be sending out a letter to all my clients informing them of the new found information I have investigated, which is the main reason behind my decision to step away from my current role as an agent. There is a remedy in the making, and I plan on participating to help clean up the mess.

You see there's a serious storm brewing within the real estate industry that I have become aware of. It is my belief that what will be transpiring in the next couple of years is going to affect every homeowner, agent, broker, title company and of course lien holders, that being the banks. Oh god.....it's bad, it's a mess, and it's going to make the crash of 2008 look like child's play.

My guess is that banks are contacting homeowners to make it look like they are doing you a big favor.....I believe what they are doing is trying to establish a new relationship via a contract, because what they have been participating in is fraudulent activities and they are attempting to reconfigure their paperwork because they know this storm is on the horizon and once people get wind, you are going to see an onslaught of lawsuits. It's all ready happening and the media is keeping very quiet about it. They need your consent, hence, most likely the purpose of re-creating a new contract with you. Back in a minute with the rest of the story....

[we-R-one]

One of the problems is an organization by the name of MERS. MERS stands for Mortgage Electronic Recording System. It's membership consists of many of the big banks. If you purchased or refinanced your home between 2001 and 2008....in fact, I would even extend that to the current time; you have a very high likelyhood of owning a MERS loan. There are several problems with this...trying really hard to make this simple as it's a complex situation.......From what I'm seeing they have been caught separating the note from the deed making it unclear as to who really owns the note. The note and mortgage are inseparable, therefore voiding both the note and the deed. See Carpenter v. Longan. The problem is, this clouds your title!

The lien holders are unable to prove that they own the property. Here's the scary part....as a homeowner you don't even know if you are paying the proper lien holder! Which means, you could be improperly paying the wrong bank, which means if the the real lien holder shows up, they can request immediate payment and foreclose on you legally!!!!!
EDIT to add:
It's all ready happening see Bevilacqua v. Rodriguez

My suggestion from this point forward, is to not buy a home unless the seller can prove they have a clear title. EDIT to add:Do not refinance until you know more about who's really behind your loan. And no, the title insurance company does not offer protection!!! And yes, they too are getting pulled into the lawsuits. They are exempt because of a specific clause buried in the contract you sign with them....unbelieveable! So of course you're asking, what the bleep do I even have it for if it doesn't protect me? Exactly.....

Here's the deal, I'm giving you cutting edge information. This is so new, that you're going to have trouble finding information within the industry. I will tell you, most agents have no idea about this, and will give you a blank stare if you ask. NAR(National Association of Realtors) has done nothing to pass on this information to their members........

I do not want to take away from the original poster's question, so before I go on, I would feel better if I had their permission to continue.


DISCLAIMER

I am not a Attorney (Lawyer) medical professional or financial adviser orJudge or Tax Expert or expert in anything, I do not offer Legal Advice orany other form of Law. I research and share Information for Fun andEntertainment and for comparison. All theexchanges contained in this email are for personal use only. This private emailmessage, including any attachment[s] is limited to the sole use of the intendedrecipient[s] and may contain Privileged and/or Confidential Information.Since I Know that I am a Freeborn man with a living Spirit, put here by a creator. I have made him Fiduciary over my Soul.
I am a Living Spirit "One of the People" sent here to live in aFleshly Body "Dust of the Earth", Living on the Dry Soil, Domiciledin a place called Idaho and Living under the Laws and Commandments of the creator and having no intentions of causing harm to anyone or anything. Not being the Subject to Slavery or the Unconscionable Contracts ofUndisclosed "Assumptions" "Presumptions""Adhesive""Invisible" and/or Color of Law and/or wordsmith. MAXIMSOF LAW is the foundation....

****AS PER THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT;
A. The practice of Law CAN NOTbe licensed by any state/State Schware v. Board of Examiners,353 U.S. 238, 239
B. The practice of Law is ANOCCUPATION OF COMMON RIGHT!
Sims v. Aherns, 271S.W. 720 (1925) ****


NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL IS NOTICE TO AGENT.NOTICE TO AGENT IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL.

[Siberia9]

we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come. BTW we changed title companys, who stated to me that they really didnt care who signed off on it, thats how its done now, the courts dont care, its the way they are doing it now.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

[we-R-one]

Posted by Siberia9 (here)
we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

[Siberia9]

I dont want to give advice in the fog but its probably best to just rent and not buy any real estate at the moment. I have sold all of mine except my paid for spot in the woods. Its difficult to say, who knows maybe some of these loans will be forgiven. In Russia before the Soviet system collapsed everyone lived in a house or apartment that the govt assigned to them. Then the next thing you know they ALL became property owners, no liens, heres the title. Of course ALL of their money was worthless too. My in-laws had bricks of cash, now worth nothing, only hard assets had value, like vodka and their houses.

I think its best to go ahead and accept that we really dont own anything. If you dont need it, now is the time to get rid of it. Be flexible and dont get to attached to physical stuff, let it go. We all know we are in for some changes, changes that we probably cant control or predict. So I am getting rid of everything and going with it. If you can get to the point where physical stuff is meaningless then you are free. Geez, I sound like one of the hippy's that work for me LOL, but its true none the less. Just accept that its going to change and go with the flow because I am sure that the people that dont follow that are set up for some difficult times ahead.

[we-R-one]

Posted by Siberia9 (here)
I dont want to give advice in the fog but its probably best to just rent and not buy any real estate at the moment. I have sold all of mine except my paid for spot in the woods. Its difficult to say, who knows maybe some of these loans will be forgiven. In Russia before the Soviet system collapsed everyone lived in a house or apartment that the govt assigned to them. Then the next thing you know they ALL became property owners, no liens, heres the title. Of course ALL of their money was worthless too. My in-laws had bricks of cash, now worth nothing, only hard assets had value, like vodka and their houses.

I think its best to go ahead and accept that we really dont own anything. If you dont need it, now is the time to get rid of it. Be flexible and dont get to attached to physical stuff, let it go. We all know we are in for some changes, changes that we probably cant control or predict. So I am getting rid of everything and going with it. If you can get to the point where physical stuff is meaningless then you are free. Geez, I sound like one of the hippy's that work for me LOL, but its true none the less. Just accept that its going to change and go with the flow because I am sure that the people that dont follow that are set up for some difficult times ahead.

LMAO, LMAO....I just got an email from National Association of Realtors....the headline is "Do your clients find you fascinating?" Guess I'm gonna find out after I do my fiduciary duty of notifying them that they might not be paying the right lien holder.....ok, really it's not funny, but I'm trying to keep a sense of humor because what are you going to do?

EDIT: It's an uncomfortable laugh by the way...more because I can't believe this is really happening, not that I'm laughing at my clients situations.

Yes, it's going to be very interesting........I'm going to encourage that my clients, if they can afford to,... that they go through the process of clearing their titles before the onslaught takes place. There's no telling how long the process will take once everyone starts figuring this out. The court systems are going to be overwhelmed and you are going to have people locked into their homes because the market will freeze as no one, no one in their right mind is going to want to buy a piece of property who's title is not guaranteed to be clear! A clouded title deems a property worthless!

And you never technically own your own home, even after you pay off the mortgage, because they don't give you the allodial title. There is only one piece of property in the world who actually has their allodial title and I can tell you it's not one of us!

[Camilo]

Posted by scarletfire (here)
Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

When something sounds to good to be TRUE, it is!....the whole things is very surreal, to believe that a BANK is forgiving you a debt?....it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[scarletfire]

Thank you so much We-R-One for this info, one thing that I didn't include w/ my original post is that a couple months prior to receiving the notice of "loan forgiveness" from BOA, I got a check in the mail from BOA for my larger mortgage and an "explanation" that they had sold my mortgage. Why they couldn't just forward the $ to the proper loan holder is beyond me. The big question was to whom was it sold, come to find out some "Ocwen?" loan agency bought my mortgage and I had been throwing their mail straight to the recycling bin as I didn't recognize it as legitimate. The past couple years have been tough for me financially (husband out of work, recent bankruptcy, etc.) and I've really had to question whether or not to even keep my house. I bought the place in 2006 as a naive 25 year old when my husband and I both had good jobs and everything seemed relatively stable, now houses in my neighborhood are selling for fractions of what I still owe. I like the house OK but hate the area and have been feeling stuck in negative house/finance drama, plan on taking a traveling nurse position at the beginning of the year to remedy this feeling.

I feel like I've already been duped by these shady practices and since the damage has most likely been done, what do I have to loose as the SHTF scenario could very well happen during the repayment period (next 20+ yrs) and taxes could skyrocket and since we all just rent from the govt. anyway (property taxes), I may want to save the extra mortgage money for future rent payments, or FEMA trailer payment so they can sell my house to some nice family of foreign investors....Lol This whole scenario has taught me that honesty is a rare find and ulterior motives are everywhere. It seems that lots of folks have no conscience when it comes to making a buck, wonder how they will hold up when they realize its just paper and its value can be dropped like a candy wrapper. Thanks for not being one of these folks.

I'd be interested to hear more info as you research, thanks again!

[we-R-one]

Posted by scarletfire (here)
Thank you so much We-R-One for this info, one thing that I didn't include w/ my original post is that a couple months prior to receiving the notice of "loan forgiveness" from BOA, I got a check in the mail from BOA for my larger mortgage and an "explanation" that they had sold my mortgage. Why they couldn't just forward the $ to the proper loan holder is beyond me. The big question was to whom was it sold, come to find out some "Ocwen?" loan agency bought my mortgage and I had been throwing their mail straight to the recycling bin as I didn't recognize it as legitimate. The past couple years have been tough for me financially (husband out of work, recent bankruptcy, etc.) and I've really had to question whether or not to even keep my house. I bought the place in 2006 as a naive 25 year old when my husband and I both had good jobs and everything seemed relatively stable, now houses in my neighborhood are selling for fractions of what I still owe. I like the house OK but hate the area and have been feeling stuck in negative house/finance drama, plan on taking a traveling nurse position at the beginning of the year to remedy this feeling.

I feel like I've already been duped by these shady practices and since the damage has most likely been done, what do I have to loose as the SHTF scenario could very well happen during the repayment period (next 20+ yrs) and taxes could skyrocket and since we all just rent from the govt. anyway (property taxes), I may want to save the extra mortgage money for future rent payments, or FEMA trailer payment so they can sell my house to some nice family of foreign investors....Lol This whole scenario has taught me that honesty is a rare find and ulterior motives are everywhere. It seems that lots of folks have no conscience when it comes to making a buck, wonder how they will hold up when they realize its just paper and its value can be dropped like a candy wrapper. Thanks for not being one of these folks.

I'd be interested to hear more info as you research, thanks again!

Don't give up just yet, let me look more into this. I have someone else that I want to ask this question for and it may apply to you....Take this idea into consideration.....say your title is clouded...the attorney that would be working to help clear your title....couldn't he ask for the fees you are required to pay to go through the process of clearing your title, to be paid by the lien holder who is fraudulently collecting your mortgage(that's if they are determined to be fraudulently collecting your mortgage)? And going even further, of you can prove that they clouded your title, what's to say you can't ask as a compromise that they re-negotiate your loan based on today's current market value? This could help you out tremendously....of course I would hope that your attorney might try and win your house for you free and clear, BUT, DO NOT COUNT ON THAT HAPPENING, as the judges in many cases are not allowing this to transpire. I'm just saying...there could be a diamond in the rough here, so don't despair just yet. I will be in touch with you. Don't feel guilty- you have been entrapped, all of us have, this is by design. I'm hopeful that I can offer you a solution and I'm truly sorry you have to have this experience- it's not suppose to be like this!

God....having to listen to a National Association of Realtors commercial right now about how important home ownership is.....talk about a synchronicity...think I'm gonna puke......

Sorry have to keep posting my disclaimer to keep me out of trouble.

DISCLAIMER

I am not a Attorney (Lawyer) medical professional or financial adviser orJudge or Tax Expert or expert in anything, I do not offer Legal Advice orany other form of Law. I research and share Information for Fun andEntertainment and for comparison. All theexchanges contained in this email are for personal use only. This private emailmessage, including any attachment[s] is limited to the sole use of the intendedrecipient[s] and may contain Privileged and/or Confidential Information.Since I Know that I am a Freeborn man with a living Spirit, put here by a creator. I have made him Fiduciary over my Soul.
I am a Living Spirit "One of the People" sent here to live in aFleshly Body "Dust of the Earth", Living on the Dry Soil, Domiciledin a place called Idaho and Living under the Laws and Commandments of the creator and having no intentions of causing harm to anyone or anything. Not being the Subject to Slavery or the Unconscionable Contracts ofUndisclosed "Assumptions" "Presumptions""Adhesive""Invisible" and/or Color of Law and/or wordsmith. MAXIMSOF LAW is the foundation....

****AS PER THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT;
A. The practice of Law CAN NOTbe licensed by any state/State Schware v. Board of Examiners,353 U.S. 238, 239
B. The practice of Law is ANOCCUPATION OF COMMON RIGHT!
Sims v. Aherns, 271S.W. 720 (1925) ****


NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL IS NOTICE TO AGENT.NOTICE TO AGENT IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL.

[donk]

It's nice to see people waking up to these types of issues, it is not that "cutting edge" though--it's been out there for about a decade, if not more. Just more and more scams are piled on top of more and more scams.

So many of the loans (and their derivates) are completely fraudlent. They set up shops all over the place during the boom (bubble inflation), spitting out completely fake garbage, packaging it up, shipping it out. Looks like the game of "hide the salami" will not end well...though I am amazed they kept it up this long...2008 was NOTHING, fixed nothing, cleaned up nothing...it was a hiccup in the smoke-and-mirrors, and miracle it was not the collapse of the finance industry.

But people keep playing the (finance industry) game. I used to use the analogy of the creators of the game keep "moving the goalposts so the right team wins", then I moved to "they just change the score to make it the outcome they want"...now you can't even use those analogies, it's like Jules says in Pulp Fiction:

"...it ain't the same f**kin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same f**kin' sport."


Good luck fightin' the good fight...I thought the battle was hopeless years ago...cleaning up the paper sh!t-storm the finance industry unleashed on the global population seems a bit of a tall order to me...but getting the information out to people that care to know...that is not only noble but real action to me--much love...

[we-R-one]

...well, what's cutting edge is the process in which to handle clearing the titles as this(the clean-up process) has not been going on for very long and you will be hard pressed to find anyone who knows how to do the paperwork properly, attorney's included, as even they, are not well versed on what to do. This is my understanding. More cases are going through the system and it's helping making the procedure easier. Guess I should have clarified better, but that's what I meant to say. Appreciate your support and kind words donk. I can only imagine how many people aren't going to be able to afford this...then what?....sigh

[meat suit]

we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat