Conspiracy: Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Prodigal Son (here)
And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita.

Well said ... and that same compulsion to debate overcomes myself sometimes too.

Let me know if you find a cure .

[K626]

Posted by Carmody (here)
what does it take?

The same as it always does.

Direct personal impact.

If you ask all the people on this forum what it was, in the vast number of cases, this is what you will find.

Until then, people will fight to maintain their ignorance, and to the death, as it is tied directly to the survival mechanism, this desire for comfort. Remember, emotions, not conscious thought..so it becomes tied into the deepest survival mechanisms and the undercurrent of emotions. And people desire the comforts,and not knowing continues the comfort and the peace. Knowing is highly uncomfortable and threatens all aspects of personal security. emotions don't think, they have no future, no past, only a perpetual and 'immediately reactive now'.

And if this 'perpetual reactive now' state is part of the system of data input and output interpretation..which it is, then you get a huge lump of self created blockage to overcome, a blockage that is as big as the survival mechanism itself.

There's no logic there, there never was.

Totally agree. Personal experience is the best trigger, if not the most long lasting. Everything that I can truly know derives from what happens to me personally or those I love.


love

K

[mountain_jim]

Posted by 4evrneo (here)

Posted by ljwheat (here)
Why do some believe and others not? What will it take to open eyes?

The answer is You can not. You only have to go back to when you woke up. Remember what and how you acted and talked and believed so strongly about--- before the light bulb came on. Its came on for you, the person or persons standing right next to you and the world around you stayed the exact same way. Just moments after you awakened more than likely you tried to point out to some one what you were suddenly aware of and how simple it all seemed to all fit together now. ---- And wa la nothing.

Before the moment you awakened there were many that tried to enlighten you but --- no dice, only you can awaken not be told to awaken by any one.

Its no different than Math in school one student no matter how many time’s is shown the correct way to do a problem, until the mind makes the connection nothing happens.

With math it’s a must in school or you wont pass, and you’ll be made fun of so you try because everyone else seems to get it so you apply yourself to a greater extent to try.

But you have to realize its not required to wake up in this world, there is no pressure to do so, as most of the world believes as you and I did before this awakening took place.

When the student is ready is one thing, but living a controlled life under normal circumstances there is no need to wake up. --- And everyone begins from that starting point.

Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This thread and this post are quite timely for me today.... I got an email from my father this morning, typical 'righty' propaganda quoting Krauthammer and commenting 'a lot of truth, I believe'.

This is long after our family instituted a 'no talking about politics' policy at holiday gatherings.

I had to respond to a 5 page letter and a copy of a Popular Mechanics Debunks 9/11 Conspiracies book from him after my sister told him I agreed with her views on 9/11. My response included the 5 best links I had to prove foreknowledge and Mossad involvement, among other things. He never acknowledged my reply or mentioned the subject again.

Deep denial, but projected onto me as a 'lost tin-foiler'. I decided the best thing for now was to avoid these subjects with him as he is 80+ years old and not open to this awakening, plus any thing received as a confrontation is not good for his health.

[Carmody]

Posted by Prodigal Son (here)
I was still a Fox-News-addicted lemming the day they pulled Saddam out of that spider-hole. My wake-up started when Colin Powell admitted to the UN that they knew the WMD's were faulty intelligence. Something told me right then and there it was a little worse than that: they had an agenda we're not privy to, even beyond oil.

The spiritual awakening began within a week or two after that, while listening to an interview between Michael Tsarion and Jeff Rense, I heard the words "our brains were unplugged." My life's worth of beliefs flashed before my eyes and suddenly a lot of things made a lot more sense.

Even the MSM-watching group knows that corruption is rampant throughout the system, and yet when you point out specifics that are never mentioned on said MSM, like names, times, and places, they go into automatic shutdown and ridicule mode.

And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita. No offense to any of you as I think this is the most enlightened forum I have ever seen, but its actually boring because you know too much and sometimes I find it hard to get the incentive to post because I can't teach you guys anything

That's good you see, as bitching and moaning is avoidance of action and thought. When we are left with nothing more to say....what remains is a form of increasing calm, thought, and then a plan based in knowing.

what you will see in the middle of that process..is a parade of carp (stinky fishy) brought to the forum and other forums..and that carp is there in in order to reengage the feeling of being incensed, to activate the monkey in the mirror.

Some people bring the junk items and 'windmill tilting items' innocently, some bring it on purpose, with backed intent.

We have to move beyond written words in our conversations.

We have to move beyond emotions in our conversations.

We have to move beyond voice in our conversations.

Each of these things always results in a communication that occurs in a layer that is one step lower in rumination, contemplation, and action, etc.

In order to have a state of communication and concerted directed action and life that is perfected and working in the so called 3d and real world..in order to eliminate the 'one step down result-effect' of any form of 3d real world communication and act of togetherness..we have to start and enact it consciously.... from one step higher.

Now, what would that one step be?

Think for a few seconds. Shouldn't take more than that.

That's it.... you got it....

The communication needs to to be at the dimensional-psychic level.

And that is the only way you will ever master this 3d reality thing. One way, and one way only.

[Eram]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Prodigal Son (here)
And then there's the conspiracy forum-addicted "debunkers" who claim that we are an insignificant fringe group and yet they can't seem to leave us alone. It's these people who are bombarded with the facts on a daily basis who really tick me off to the point it would seem that they have an agenda that maybe includes being paid shills. But sadly, most of them are not, and they fight tooth and nail to defend the Criminal Cabal for free.

Something drives me to keep debating with them and I can't help myself, even though it's poison for my system and all it does is give me agita.

Well said ... and that same compulsion to debate overcomes myself sometimes too.

Let me know if you find a cure .

There is a point of view that tells us that there is only perfection... that everything is exactly as it should be. Everything has it's own rhythm and pace and time of awakening. In the ultimate end, we play a game that cannot be lost and we all return to source.

When you focus on this for long enough.... then you loose the urge to debate others and you can rest in silence.

not that I mastered this in any way

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Wakytweaky (here)
There is a point of view that tells us that there is only perfection... that everything is exactly as it should be.

I have no intention of mastering that view .

I'm of the school of thought that I can make a difference.

[Eram]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Wakytweaky (here)
There is a point of view that tells us that there is only perfection... that everything is exactly as it should be.

I have no intention of mastering that view .

I'm of the school of thought that I can make a difference.

Well, that's the paradox isn't it?
From this point of view, or awareness, you can and will make a difference

Let me know if you find a cure .

You can also try to bite your tong for the rest of the day's, but that can become a bit painful in the end...

[Vitalux]

From my recent observations I have observed this:

We exist in a physical dimension where what we imagine collectively manifests.
This physical dimension/ illusion is a consensus reality illusion.

Whatever we tend to believe as a whole will be our collective reality.
Our individual thoughts are significant, and we can make a difference.
Be careful what you wish/think for; remember it is just all an illusion, just an experience.

[jaybee]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
Dear Huma


A sentence in your first paragraph struck me as interesting:

...people who still believe the world is as they are told and have been lead to believe.

Mmmmm...I wonder....does this also apply to forums where conspiracy theories are discussed? Are we also just "believing what we are being told"? I do find there is a strong group-think - a subtle pressure, an expectation that the majority will think a certain way (with a certain amount of room for personal viewpoints of course). This very idea, that we are "awake" and everyone else is asleep, is a perfect example of this: how do we know for sure that we are awake? How do we know that we're not being manipulated in exactly the same way we think everyone else is being manipulated? Are the theories many here subscribe to really true or is it just entertainment? Have we merely exchanged one world where we are lied to for another world where we are being lied to? Have we merely swapped one illusion for another? Are we at risk of falling prey to the smugness of the true believer? Chemtrails...fluoride...vaccinations...HAARP...are there a certain number of theories we have to believe in before we can officially be called a conspiracy theorist?!

nicely put Kathie....and something we must bear in mind.

when I saw this thread I knew that 9/11 would feature heavily in it.

How about this for a conspiracy within a conspiracy....could the 'Inside Job' theory actually be a very successful Psychological Operation...?

Lead and pushed by 'agents'.....catching genuine Truthseekers in the net..?

Who dares to contemplate let alone express doubt in the Inside Job theory.

Well I do, for one (I have my own take on it)....but I still consider myself to be a conspiracy theorist at heart....just got to keep your wits about you at all times so's not to be lead down the proverbial garden path....





.

[ljwheat]

Keep it all in context, eternal spirit visits human experience, leave’s experience to visit the next adventure, experiences for eternity, choosing that experience before entering this or any realm to choose to stay asleep or to wake up before we come here. And then you come along and try to wake me up. What if I came here to sleep this time around?

Again there is 'NO' requirement to wake up. Free will to choose this journey and my itinerary not you. Now if I should ask a question then my mind is wide open for answers, you have to know when that door closes thow.

After it closes then your just preaching to me at that point.

And learning to listen, and not selective listening ---- will save you a lot of grief and miss understanding.

And since I have all of eternity to walk by the pond, I may not be in a hurry to go skinny dipping with you just quite yet, it's my journey MINE ? If you let me.?

Evangelizing anything is the wrong way to approach anything outside of you. You’re a guest here--- not the savior of the world, quit trying to take up permanent residence here your just visiting.

Crashing the party doesn’t help the world to go around. Its just a ride of many in this big eternity and that’s plenty of time for me to finally --- when i choose to getting around and asking you the right questions,-- eventually I’ll get there.

We act like if we don’t get it right pretty quick the worlds going to end ---- NO the rid is ending not the world. Keep it in context-- that eternity is a very long, long time, so slow down and stop tail gating and relax --- its eternity for Christ’s sake. LOL I’m just throwing a lot into the air what you pluck out for yourself is great.

For unless you can bend spoons, or raise the dead , and walk on water -- I would not worry about this ride to much its on auto-pilot any way.

We have all of eternity --- relax. Just airing my thoughts on this OP.

John xoxo

[T Smith]

Posted by K626 (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
what does it take?

The same as it always does.

Direct personal impact.

If you ask all the people on this forum what it was, in the vast number of cases, this is what you will find.

Until then, people will fight to maintain their ignorance, and to the death, as it is tied directly to the survival mechanism, this desire for comfort. Remember, emotions, not conscious thought..so it becomes tied into the deepest survival mechanisms and the undercurrent of emotions. And people desire the comforts,and not knowing continues the comfort and the peace. Knowing is highly uncomfortable and threatens all aspects of personal security. emotions don't think, they have no future, no past, only a perpetual and 'immediately reactive now'.

And if this 'perpetual reactive now' state is part of the system of data input and output interpretation..which it is, then you get a huge lump of self created blockage to overcome, a blockage that is as big as the survival mechanism itself.

There's no logic there, there never was.

Totally agree. Personal experience is the best trigger, if not the most long lasting. Everything that I can truly know derives from what happens to me personally or those I love.


love

K

Agree as well. However, I would point out one troubling trend. I have observed it is becoming more and more difficult for some people to discern concrete and basic understanding and truth from their own personal experiences, based on the intensified programming, instilled behavioral/mind control, conditioning, toxic pollution in the food/water/air supply that affects cognitive functioning, etc. Some people are so affected (or so far gone) that they would view their own loved ones being hauled off by Brownshirts as criminals of the State, no matter what the facts or circumstance.

[CdnSirian]

I've come late to this thread. Regards, all. Want to add http://nohoax.com (? ) and the three download handbooks, I've read and they seem to convey that the SHTF is way worse than we can imagine - and also "if you're reading this you're on the winning side". That we can generate a winning reality. I'm definitely going for that.

[Taurean]

The wife and I got to yelling at each other a couple of weeks back because I was trying to explain some situation or other, and at the height of it she said it wasn't so much because she didn't believe what I was saying, but more that she didn't want to believe what I was saying. Which would seem indicate fear of the reality is more important to some. It's as if you don't think about it, then it might not happen.

I have to wonder just how insidious Mind Control really is because no matter how banal, trivial, moronic or down right deceptive TV really is, most people still think they are being entertained.

Dr. Pete Peterson alluded to the fact that something like 10% of the population cannot be Mind Controlled ( hypnotised ? ) which makes me wonder if some of us are like Dolores Cannon suggests, Wanderers, Starseeds, Indigoes, Comers In, to lead the lost and fearful when all authority has gone to ground, so to speak. Which would support Courtney Brown's remote viewing image of nobody in authority helping the refugees, after whatever it's going to be, that hits us.

[Sir Eltor]

For myself , it was like being trapped under ice and holding my breath for many a year...then finally breaking through and taking that long awaited mental breath ...

then , once you come to , you realize that you felt this way all along...

conspiraties ??? what conspiraties ???

[another bob]

[ljwheat]

Another incredibly high possibility than not is : The fact that we are incarnated, birthed, on this planet, as branch of the higher self from outside these many Dimensional paradigm bubbles. We came here in spirit form with all the power and freedom and movement of a spirit, having no bounds or restrictions, No sweat we can handle a little thing as human restriction, but that was before being restricted.

'Now' being restricted and bound by gravity, levity, and a body limited to the 5 sense’s,---- 'sure' - We knew we were also coming in to this realm as a blank sheet of paper, with no record of previous wonderings as spirit.

Now awake we find ourselves stuck -- up to our necks in the quick sand of slow, non-fulfilling, restricted and limited movement in this physical form. it’s a freaken prison compared to were we came from and what we really are: uncontainable spirit -- contained.

This hole in self -- everyone talks about we are desperately trying to fill and can never be filled is not a hole --- its an ach to be free as we know we should be. The only release how ever temporary is either sleep or meditation when spirit still attached like a dog on a leash gets to run around the local galactic Nationhood. Prison of 3D, like a tooth ach that never go’s away, we bounce off the prison walls of physical life trying to break free of this prison.

Instead of relaxing and letting it pass as all things do, we try to justify, moralize, philosoph-ify’- relig-ify, democratize, demoralize, and finally socialize in groups of butter fly’s caught in the same spider’s web of sticky 3D existence -- waiting for our eventual release date, when we can fly once again with no limitations.

So no matter how smart we think we are, being awake only give’s us a birds eye view of the prison cell (body) we agreed to embody for a time. I know everyone looks at intellectuals as being the authority and greater in wisdom or have some sort of handle on things that we don’t.

When all there really doing with there fancy words and posturing is whistling in the dark not wanting to face there spirituality -- are also trapped like you and me.

And all those that are asleep, there fine and still happy,-- not in pain like us.

of 3D caught in the Web 5 sense's.

John xoxo

[Lone Bean]

4evrneo wrote:

Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This is EXACTLY the same situation I have with my husband. He's very smart, has all sorts of official letters following his name blah blah blah....but refuses to believe that our government would do such a thing as 9.11. We've even watched a couple of very convincing documentaries about 9.11 and he just walks out shaking his head and saying he just won't believe it. It's very frustrating for me and he thinks I'm a nut. We can't talk about a lot of things and 9.11 is definitely on the "do not talk about" list. I haven't even bothered to tell him about my interest in UFO's. Funny, he swears he thinks Elvis is still alive but won't face up to stark-raving reality about 9.11 and many other in-your-face events such as the eminent collapse of our economy. I love him, and I hope one day he wakes up, but for now I come to places like this forum to read and talk with others who are awake.

[Prodigal Son]

Posted by ljwheat (here)
Now awake we find ourselves stuck -- up to our necks in the quick sand of slow, non-fulfilling, restricted and limited movement in this physical form. it’s a freaken prison compared to were we came from and what we really are: uncontainable spirit -- contained.

This hole in self -- everyone talks about we are desperately trying to fill and can never be filled is not a hole --- its an ach to be free as we know we should be. The only release how ever temporary is either sleep or meditation when spirit still attached like a dog on a leash gets to run around the local galactic Nationhood. Prison of 3D, like a tooth ach that never go’s away, we bounce off the prison walls of physical life trying to break free of this prison.

Instead of relaxing and letting it pass as all things do, we try to justify, moralize, philosoph-ify’- relig-ify, democratize, demoralize, and finally socialize in groups of butter fly’s caught in the same spider’s web of sticky 3D existence -- waiting for our eventual release date, when we can fly once again with no limitations.

So no matter how smart we think we are, being awake only give’s us a birds eye view of the prison cell (body) we agreed to embody for a time. I know everyone looks at intellectuals as being the authority and greater in wisdom or have some sort of handle on things that we don’t.

When all there really doing with there fancy words and posturing is whistling in the dark not wanting to face there spirituality -- are also trapped like you and me.

And all those that are asleep, there fine and still happy,-- not in pain like us.

"Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain." - Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NAS)

There has to be a good reason why we are chomping at the bit to incarnate while we're up there in Nirvana or the Astral or whatever, seemingly without a care in the Universe. Well it's just the opposite. We see the suffering and darkness and mind control down here and we happily sign up to come back while taking the risk that we might not be able to remember. Somehow we trust that the innate spiritual desire to find "Source" that we experienced in past lives will rise to the surface once again and we will get something accomplished. We suspect we will be driven to find out why we are here and Lord how the Internet has helped us. Perhaps we knew we were volunteering for the beginning of the Information Age and we found this very exciting.

I keep reading all over the place that it is in the density of physical matter that the human soul can evolve the most rapidly..... we can be Co-Creators at the level where it matters most.... where "God" needs to evolve from the primordial consciousness soup that the Cabal keeps us mired in. So we do this out of love for others. Every moment of life here then becomes priceless and regardless of how bad things get we keep rising to the challenge. Basically, we're here to work against the Suppressors and shine our Light on the Darkness. What better motivation than that?

Don't get me wrong... I know where you're coming from. I'm constantly begging for Scottie to beam me up, but I don't really mean it. I'm just venting at the stupidness of the planet I chose to try and help.

[ljwheat]

Posted by Lone Bean (here)
4evrneo wrote:

Thank you ljwheat,
Your post makes alot of sense to me. I have struggled with my father for the last two years about the issues of the government and 9/11, etc. It has frustrated me that as intelligent as he is, he believes the msm and gov. wouldnt be involved in such acts. It has come to the point that he has actually stopped talking to me about any of these subjects. Crazy thing is, he has actually said he is worried that this "awakening" stuff might land me in a cult. It breaks my heart that he is in such denial about things but I think I have finally come to a conclusion that waking up is a personal journey that happens when the student is ready, and that I can only help the ones that are willing to engage.

This is EXACTLY the same situation I have with my husband. He's very smart, has all sorts of official letters following his name blah blah blah....but refuses to believe that our government would do such a thing as 9.11. We've even watched a couple of very convincing documentaries about 9.11 and he just walks out shaking his head and saying he just won't believe it. It's very frustrating for me and he thinks I'm a nut. We can't talk about a lot of things and 9.11 is definitely on the "do not talk about" list. I haven't even bothered to tell him about my interest in UFO's. Funny, he swears he thinks Elvis is still alive but won't face up to stark-raving reality about 9.11 and many other in-your-face events such as the eminent collapse of our economy. I love him, and I hope one day he wakes up, but for now I come to places like this forum to read and talk with others who are awake.

Thank You Lone Bean, I wrote this from personal experience with my mother, older brother, that were really steeped in Christianity the darkest form of being lead by what the gov. thinks is right for us all. The Pulpit, with all the love and light, closed doors to the real world.

I do love analogy’s that’s the only thing I retrieved from Church Dom. Comedians draw on the same source,-- real life reference analogy’s. Only this is sadly not funny at all as you’d like to get a little validation from those you love and are the closest to you.

And bringing the mountain to Mohamed is no small task.

And thank you for the validation I was looking for.

John xoxo

[ljwheat]

Prodigal Son, thank you so much for your timely pearls of wisdom. Casting those pearls at the right time and place is validation at its best. And I agree-- with out the net, we would still be in the stone ages, in moving the mountain to Mohamed’s door steps. I’ve been enjoying the view for quite some time now. And didn’t realize how easy it was to move the mountain for a better view, just by opening my mouth, instead of keeping my head in the sand, 'boy' that was a big desert my head was in -- you should see all the people that are still there LOL. Thanks John xoxo