Bible Topics and Questions

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by kreagle (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
I was down by the beach today and heard of a Blue whale sighting from the shore...

page 777 is Jonah and the whale...

I hopped in my car and drove inland...

Ha!, Ha!, Ha!, Ha!,......hey, you weren't' close to Nineveh, were you?

Good to see you, brother!,.............kreagle

well flip it...

Nineveh = Heven in...

yep, very close...

I'll wait for the express shuttle...

[kreagle]

All 'Hands' on deck!,....





How many of you have been guilty of steering your vehicle using the 'finger steering method'? I know I have,....and continue to do so in situations, (driving conditions), where I feel 'fully in control'. Unfortunately, we are living in an era where there are those 'select individuals' who shamelessly only use 'one middle finger', towards others, as they navigate their way through our, sometimes, hectic lives. I hate to admit it, but prior to the Lord's intervention in my own personal life, there were times that I, too, didn't hesitate to charter my course with this 'same navigational tool'. What a difference Jesus can make in your life!


Of course, this casual 'finger steering method' changes, ( or should change), when we enter hazardous driving conditions. It's then that 'our grip' takes on a more serious tone as we enter into a heightened awareness of our surroundings. It's now time for 'both hands on the steering wheel!!!'





I think we can all agree with 'both examples above' as we seem to have no problem recognizing our own 'responsibilities behind the wheel',.....but what about that 'other vehicle',...( our own souls),...that we are equally, and more importantly, required to navigate through this 'highway called LIFE?'
How many times are we, perhaps, guilty of casually employing the 'finger steering method',....when we should really be applying 'both hands on the steering wheel!' Are there times in this life that we can 'really afford' to let our guard down, completely? Don't get me wrong, for I fully believe that God intends for us to, occasionally 'kick back and enjoy a ride in the country',.....but we certainly need to be aware that 'hazards even exist' on those country roads, also! Those yellow caution signs, ( ie.,..Deer Crossing..), were put there for a reason, you know!


1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


The Apostle Peter warns us to 'be sober'. Now, certainly 'drinking and driving' don't mix,....we all know that,...right? We all understand the 'horrors of drunk driving' for I doubt seriously that there is anyone here who has not been affected, (directly or indirectly), by someone driving 'under the influence'. It's while 'under the influence' that one easily looses perception and begins to casually take a 'hand off the wheel', (among other things). But something tells me that Peter wasn't speaking of 'alcoholic beverages', here, in relationship to us being 'sober'. Again, we are speaking about the 'navigation of the soul',...and the 'drunkenness of the soul' we are relating to, here, doesn't come 'from a bottle'. Quite frankly, this type of 'drunkenness' is far more intoxicating than anything that can possibly.....come from a bottle, or 'smoked', or even 'shot in the veins'. Mankind seems to easily become drunken on his/her own,...abilities,....intellectualism,....wealth,....pride,....lusts,....etc. This ultimately leaves him/her in such a stupor that they are completely unaware of the pending 'disaster of the soul'. In this state, they've completely taken their 'spiritual hands' off of the 'steering wheel of their soul' and casually go down the road of LIFE using the 'finger steering method'. This is just another, (out of many), reasons we need to be filled with the Spirit of God to help guide us through this 'turbulent life' and help us 'keep both hands on the wheel!'


The 'things that matter the most',.......deserve 'both of our hands attention!'


And they 'do to our Creator,.....also!' Notice the following scriptures.......


Psalm 8:3-6 (KJV)

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:


and,........


Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul


and,........


Psalm 119:73 (KJV)

73 Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.


Even the Scriptures, themselves, accurately 'paint a beautiful picture' of God's 'handy work', here. As magnificent as the heavens, moon, and stars are,...it appears that our loving Creator casually took the 'finger approach', and with His infinite power brought them into existence. They were the 'work of thy fingers',....but when it came to His prized creation, ( you and I ),....He reached down with His Hands and,...."Thy hands have made me and fashioned me:,..."


The 'things that mattered most to Him, (you and I)',.....deserved, and got,.....'both of His Hands attention!!!'


What a 'Sober,....Righteous,....and Loving God we serve!'


Perhaps it's time to get a 'better grip' on things,......perhaps it's time for 'both hands!'


As always, your friend, brother, and servant,.......kreagle

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

Thank-you for linking to that other thread by the way. I wished to quote this part of what you said below:

Posted by kreagle (here)
Not only do we 'understand and acknowledge' what Jesus did for us,.... 'exactly',....with His death, burial, and resurrection,.....but now we also,....'understand and acknowledge' how,...we,too,....can 'follow in His same footsteps',....be 'Christ-like',...be a 'Christian',......and 'experience our own personal,....death, burial, and resurrection'!,.......NOT......in a 'physical way' like He did,.......but in a 'spiritual way'!!
I’m in total agreement with this interpretation. I think that is exactly what is meant!

I’m not sure if you meant this yourself, but here is a slightly different interpretation, a further little nugget to chew on, if you will.

And it is that all of us, throughout our lives undergo a kind of repeated spiritual death, burial, and resurrection, in that as we strive forward in our understanding, in our execution of being the best possible human-being we can be, we put aside those parts of ourselves that we no longer want, shed them like an old skin, and we resurrect inside of ourselves, like a pupa taking shape in a cocoon. I see that process continuing throughout our lives, all the way to our actual, physical deaths, where we break free of the cocoon at last, and fly free.

Hey brother,

Your analogy of the 'caterpillar becoming a butterfly' as compared to the 'new birth process achieved by the personal completion of the death, burial, and resurrection' is a 'good one',.....with the exception of the word,....'if'.


You see the caterpillar, by design and nature, has 'no choice' but to become a butterfly, for it is 'hard-wired' to do so. It has absolutely no alternative but to become what it was designed, by God, to become. If a bird doesn't alter the 'end results' of it's developmental stage by 'gobbling it up' in it's 'caterpillar stage', it will, indeed, 'fly away' at it's appointed time.


In the case of the 'new birth' experience, mankind has, in no way, been 'hard-wired' by God, for He has given each one of us the 'free-will' to choose to follow and obey His Word. If we follow in His footsteps,....complete the 'new birth' process of death, burial, and resurrection, with an Acts 2:38 experience, then we, will indeed, 'fly away' ourselves when our appointed time arrives!


To further distinguish the difference between the analogy you have supplied, the Apostle Paul speaks, in great detail, along the lines of God's Spirit dwelling in believer's,....but qualifies this with his usage of the word 'if' on multiple occasions. Again, this word 'if' clearly indicates there are 'qualifying principles in play' in order for His Spirit to be 'activated in the life of the believer.' This is found in Romans chapter 8, and I will supply the passage that he uses to indicate that we will 'fly', (or ascend), one day.


Romans 8:11 (KJV)

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


But,....make no 'ifs,...ands,....ors,....about it,,.......the 'new birth',...IS....available to 'whosoever will', my dear friend!


Your brother, friend, and servant,......kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
You see the caterpillar, by design and nature, has 'no choice' but to become a butterfly, for it is 'hard-wired' to do so. It has absolutely no alternative but to become what it was designed, by God, to become. If a bird doesn't alter the 'end results' of it's developmental stage by 'gobbling it up' in it's 'caterpillar stage', it will, indeed, 'fly away' at it's appointed time.

In the case of the 'new birth' experience, mankind has, in no way, been 'hard-wired' by God, for He has given each one of us the 'free-will' to choose to follow and obey His Word. If we follow in His footsteps,....complete the 'new birth' process of death, burial, and resurrection, with an Acts 2:38 experience, then we, will indeed, 'fly away' ourselves when our appointed time arrives!

Hey mate! I do see what you saying here, but I am at variance on the interpretation, and I’d like to discuss why:

I think that we are hard-wired, very much so. And this is defined by the very purpose of our existence. We, as humans, are no accident. There are no accidents. No soul that incarnates arrives by accident, or even in the wrong place. We began in a specific place, because, if you like, God put us there. And for a reason!...

For a Plan.

Even though that Plan maybe hidden from us (until the End). But every soul that comes into this life has a Plan.

There is a life-path in front of us, reaching toward a mysterious prospect. A highway. And it is that which we are hard-wired to follow, our allotted personal path that guides us through the lessons in life. No Life is set into the wilderness to wander witlessly. We have a hard-wired path, and we are meant to follow it.

But in our own way, and in our own good time, because that is free-will. That is our Gift. Free-will defines how we follow that path, that highway set aside for us. How we adhere to it (or not).

I hope you understand what I’m driving at here (pun intended!) Because I agree, there is an ‘if’, involved, based on choice. But there is a hard wiring involved, and it is to know, and to be, with God (at the end of that highway).

It is very much like your excellent car analogy – one finger on the wheel. You succinctly and very precisely highlight this process. We may idle along, wavering perhaps from this lane or into that – via free-will – but with one finger in charge of our rudder. And we may skew awry of where we really should be going. We get diverted. Some may even career far wide, and bump along on the shoulder, flirting with destruction.

In a nutshell, the spiritual rebirth of which I spoke is there for us all if (there’s your ‘if’) we have both hands on the wheel, and heed the signposts of life which follow the Way to it, the true path to Destiny.

Alternatively we may reject it, and go right off course!

Posted by kreagle (here)
But,....make no 'ifs,...ands,....ors,....about it,,.......the 'new birth',...IS....available to 'whosoever will', my dear friend!

Absolutely! It is an ‘if’ – whether we go this way, or that way. But the way is always there, hard-wired in us, if only we would but recognise it. Some do, some do not. But all is in accordance with our own free will to follow it (or not).

Anyway mate... these are my beliefs. And it's fine of course if they don't jive with your own! Differences of opinion, variations in belief... it doesn't really matter, does it. As I said before these are just details. Compassion, humility, love... that’s all that counts. They trump all!

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

Thanks again, for your valued response. Perhaps an additional word, that I could have used, would have been the word 'robotic', along with the word 'if'.

I think that we are hard-wired, very much so. And this is defined by the very purpose of our existence. We, as humans, are no accident. There are no accidents. No soul that incarnates arrives by accident, or even in the wrong place. We began in a specific place, because, if you like, God put us there. And for a reason!...

'Hard-wired', in definition, prohibits and completely removes the 'if factor'. A 'hard-wired' human would be, in effect, a 'robot' to go in 'one direction', and one direction, only. I used this illustration, earlier, on this thread, where 'seeker1972' wanted to know why God just didn't create people who were 'incapable of failing the test we call life' Our conversation, on this, is back on page 4 of this thread, and I have supplied the link, if you wanted to glance at it.

Link: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post543821

We, as humans, are no accident. There are no accidents. No soul that incarnates arrives by accident, or even in the wrong place. We began in a specific place, because, if you like, God put us there. And for a reason!...

I could not possibly agree with you any more than the 'entirety of your statement, here.' You are completely correct, in that, we are no 'accident'. God definitely put us here for a reason. He had a 'specific plan and design' for us when He originally set us down in the Garden of Eden,....but those 'designs and plans' were altered drastically when Adam and Eve disobeyed God's simple instructions. Because they, like us today, were not 'hard-wired' they made an 'alternative choice' which led to them being expelled from the 'Utopian surroundings' that the Garden of Eden afforded them. It's because of our 'great ancestor's choice' then that has relegated mankind to the position of being the 'original Prodigal son'. Sin caused this 'prodigal existence' and drove us away from God,....and now we 'all' must make 'another choice!' We 'all' must either choose to,.....#1) remain where we currently are in life,......OR, 'if we'.......#2) come 'to ourselves and return to our Father's house! Once again, we see 'sandwiched in between' our choices that pivotal word 'if'. Our 'God-given choice' will ultimately 'swing the pendulum one way or the other'.


'Hard-wired' means we've got 'no choice', and that we must accept the terms of our 'wiring'. We've been pre-programmed towards our robotic end. Should we desire to 'alter our course', we can't, because,....after all, we've been 'hard-wired!' In all actuality, we are the 'only Creative Act of God' that isn't hard-wired. An acorn, when planted is 'hard-wired' to become an oak tree. It will never produce lemons. The 'seed of a dog' will become a puppy, then grow to be a dog, likewise. It will never be a monkey.

We, humans, are the 'only Creative Act of God' that have been granted the 'privilege of choice'. The trees don't have it, all of herbal life doesn't have it, animal life doesn't have it, the fish and fowl don't have it. Only,...you and I do! They have been 'hard-wired' to be what they are, without a 'choice in the matter'. It's in the 'soul of mankind' that makes the 'ultimate difference'. Because of the 'value of the soul', we have been given the 'exclusive rights to choice' that the rest of God's creation does not have.


It's because of the 'boundless Mercy and Grace' of God, we've been given the privilege of 'choice' to decide the 'direction in life we want to go'. Of course, with that choice comes responsibility,...for we will have to be responsible and accept the terms of the 'choice we all make'.

Choose wisely, my dear friend!


I look forward, with much anticipation, to our 'next' dialogue, brother!


Your brother, friend, and servant,......kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
'Hard-wired', in definition, prohibits and completely removes the 'if factor'. A 'hard-wired' human would be, in effect, a 'robot' to go in 'one direction', and one direction, only. I used this illustration, earlier, on this thread, where 'seeker1972' wanted to know why God just didn't create people who were 'incapable of failing the test we call life' Our conversation, on this, is back on page 4 of this thread, and I have supplied the link, if you wanted to glance at it.

Thank you kreagle again. I enjoy these discussions a lot!

Anyway, I accept everything you’re saying and you’re right in the explanation you give, and in your later exposition by way of Christian thinking, but this isn’t exactly what I meant. I was trying to get to the root of something different when I said ‘Hard-wired’.

It’s something more fundamental than what you mean. I’m talking firstly about purpose, about human destiny. And secondly about God ‘himself’. In fact I overlapped in my description of ‘two’ separate forms of hard-wiring that we have.

Perhaps the problem here is that ‘Hard-wired’ is not a good term for this human complex which exists in our minds and our spirits. ‘Desire’ is better – an innate (subconscious) draw firstly to our accorded paths.

For example, some are meant to be doctors, some farmers, some astronauts, or ministers, or fishermen and so forth. These are paths put here for us to follow, in accordance with our naturally given gifts and abilities. And along those special paths meant for us are the signposts we are meant to read along the way, and the lessons we are meant to learn. Everyone is instilled with a need to explore our given plan, with our given gifts, and put them to a specific use in our lives. This is what one type of hard-wiring (that word again) is.

The other I mention is an urge for God. Because we all are a part of God, a divine fragment that, for a short while, has separated from God, but is one day destined to return.

It is in us, every single one of us – yes even the bad guys – that urge to find God, experience God, understand through life, and transition, and revelation, what is the nature of God and our connection to him.

Because it is the nature of ‘life’ that we come into it with complete ignorance of our origin – amnesia – of what we truly are, and it is a struggle all the way. This is the Test… to stumble through the dark and find that shining light to Revelation. This is the entire point to it. And this is your second hard-wire.

When those who have moved for so long through the dark eventually find it? It’s well… I don’t need to tell you I think. You’ve found it, so you know what it felt like.

But it was there inside of you all along, and for so long you just didn’t know what it was. But it was there… an urge, an impulse, that is to say an instinctive longing for a spiritual connection to God.

'Hard-wired' means we've got 'no choice', and that we must accept the terms of our 'wiring'.

For me it means that choice is programmed within us! But you’re right of course in that it is absent in life-forms that have no free-will, such as the dog, or the acorn. But a life imbued with free-will, which is us humans, have the capacity to choose our ultimate path. We may heed what is given, or override it; turn off that wire – or it may be more accurate to say allow ourselves to be distracted away from it. And from here begins the root of all Human distortion.

The misery we see on this earth is borne out of everything – everyone who has failed somehow to follow their path. The criminal, the murderer, the drug-addict… This was not God’s intent, this was not their original intent either – these choices in life were never a part of their Plan. They ran off the road, and to compensate for their disconnection from God, from Love and from Source, they attempt to fill in the gaps with the dark energies of selfishness, indulgence, hedonism, drugs, you name it.

So this is what I am saying. Hard-wiring is merely a blueprint, imprinted in our consciousness and in our souls. How ultimately it is realised in the final architecture is down to choice.

It's in the 'soul of mankind' that makes the 'ultimate difference'. Because of the 'value of the soul', we have been given the 'exclusive rights to choice' that the rest of God's creation does not have.

Absolutely. Here's another way to look at it in a Christian sense: Think of the two trees of Genesis. And forget for a moment the deeper symbolism found therein, this is just a simple example. But let’s say the fruit of one tree is a path to light, the other leads away from that light. The hard-wiring is the inevitability that Eve will be tempted to eat one of the fruit presented, because she is hard-wired to be hungry. But which fruit? That is her own choice. And that’s your free will.

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

Quite frankly, your latest post reveals to me that, in a round about way, we both have a little bit more 'common ground' on this 'hard-wire' subject than I originally thought.

Perhaps the problem here is that ‘Hard-wired’ is not a good term for this human complex which exists in our minds and our spirits. ‘Desire’ is better – an innate (subconscious) draw firstly to our accorded paths.

For me it means that choice is programmed within us! But you’re right of course in that it is absent in life-forms that have no free-will, such as the dog, or the acorn. But a life imbued with free-will, which is us humans, have the capacity to choose our ultimate path. We may heed what is given, or override it; turn off that wire – or it may be more accurate to say allow ourselves to be distracted away from it. And from here begins the root of all Human distortion.

Whereas, you view the concept of mankind being 'hard-wired' but still having the ability to 'choose', ( override, or turn off the wire),.....I, personally, understand that the term itself, ( hard-wired), means to not have the capability to alter the course it has been programmed for. Please forgive me for being a 'stickler for words', but my curiosity went a 'step further' to actually 'look up the definition' of the term, and this is what I found.


hard-wired   /ˈhɑrdˈwaɪərd/ Show Spelled[hahrd-wahyuhrd] Show IPA
adjective
1. Computers .
a. built into a computer's hardware and thus not readily changed.
b. (of a terminal) connected to a computer by a direct circuit rather than through a switching network.
2. (of electrical or electronic components) connected by hardwiring.
3. pertaining to or being an intrinsic and relatively unmodifiable behavior pattern: Every cricket has a hard-wired pattern of chirps.


As you can see, by definition #3 especially, to be 'hard-wired' means to have a relatively unmodifiable behavior pattern. Further review of this 'specific term' does tend to lend some 'wiggle room', ( but not much), towards your viewpoint. I will let you know that I 'wholeheartedly agree' that mankind has been 'programmed to know and/or respond to God', and I have always felt that way, as indicated by this 'earlier post' about 'Do you believe in God?'. If you decide to click on the link I have provided, scroll down to the 'true story' I relate about 'there are no atheists in foxholes' that shows that, I too, ascribe to the fact that we 'all' have it 'programmed' within us to call out to God.

Link: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post470618


You went further, Star Mariner, by selecting a 'better' term than 'hard-wired', and that was the word 'desire', to which I equally agree. From a Biblical standpoint, the Bible uses the 'best' term by simply calling it 'faith!'


Romans 12:3 (KJV)

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


When God, in His infinite Wisdom,....'dealt to every man the measure of faith',......He literally put within each one of us a 'seed' that was meant to germinate and come to complete fruition, if we would only allow it to grow.


Luke 17:6 (KJV)

6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.


I believe here is what the Scriptures are endeavoring to relate to us about our 'inward abilities'. It's not a matter of being 'hard-wired' and 'robotic in nature', but instead it's a matter of 'allowing the seed of faith to grow' and to reach maturity in our lives.

Conversely, every horticulturist knows that in order for a 'seed' to grow,.....it must 'first seek out the Light!'

And Jesus is the 'only Light' that will germinate the 'seed of faith' that the Bible is speaking about, here.


John 1:9-10 (KJV)

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not


As always, ........your friend, brother, and servant,..........kreagle

[Akasha]

Hi there Kreagle and thanks for this thread. I have especially been enjoying the latter part so far and in particular your dialogue with Star Mariner (thanks Star Mariner!).

With regard to 1 John 4.8 and specifically within it the iconic phrase "God is love" would you say it is fair to extrapolate from that that love is God? (A notion I personally subscribe to).

[kreagle]

Akasha,

Hey, my British friend!,.....let me be one of the first to 'warmly welcome' you to Avalon, brother! Great to have you on board, and I sincerely hope you will make yourself at home, here. I, too, am greatly enjoying the conversations between Star Mariner and myself, and of course with everyone else, also. It will be great to have 'additional comments' from you,....so join right in!

Hi there Kreagle and thanks for this thread. I have especially been enjoying the latter part so far and in particular your dialogue with Star Mariner (thanks Star Mariner!).

With regard to 1 John 4.8 and specifically within it the iconic phrase "God is love" would you say it is fair to extrapolate from that that love is God? (A notion I personally subscribe to).

1 John 4:8 (KJV)

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


'God is love',........and.......'love is God'. Forward and backwards,...Backward and forwards,.......it sounds like you've 'subscribed to the perfect combination', brother!


God's love transcends into a 'level' that we, humans, really can't 'fully comprehend!' It is occasionally referred to as 'AGAPE' and fully put on display at Calvary.

What a mighty God, we serve!


Once again, welcome brother!,.........kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Star Mariner,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply, kreagle. I’m sure we have found the same page now and a common ground to work with!

Yes it really was just a matter of language, of semantics. A ‘technological’ phrase like ‘hard-wired’ was not quite accurate for the depiction of the concepts that we were both trying to explain.

As you can see, by definition #3 especially, to be 'hard-wired' means to have a relatively unmodifiable behavior pattern. Further review of this 'specific term' does tend to lend some 'wiggle room', ( but not much), towards your viewpoint. I will let you know that I 'wholeheartedly agree' that mankind has been 'programmed to know and/or respond to God', and I have always felt that way, as indicated by this 'earlier post' about 'Do you believe in God?'.

Perhaps, to coin a term, ‘Soft-Wired’ might do the best job of all? We could call “Soft-Wired” then, ‘a preternatural orientation’, a persuasion – in this instance to seek out and connect with the Power all around us, and within us, that is God.

If you decide to click on the link I have provided, scroll down to the 'true story' I relate about 'there are no atheists in foxholes' that shows that, I too, ascribe to the fact that we 'all' have it 'programmed' within us to call out to God.
Link: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post470618

Thank-you for the link. A very interesting story there about Vietnam, describing a universally repeating theme in the life-experiences of many which elucidates that ‘Soft-wiring’ again. Ignored all their lives, when it came to the crunch, and that desperate situation, it ‘lit up’, and God was very suddenly and very abundantly clear in those soldiers’ minds!

Atheism. Those that believe in nothing, in no higher power at all… I have always had a kind of bemused fascination with Atheists, perhaps the same way that a fish of the ocean is bemused, and a tad incredulous, of another fish that doesn’t believe in water. Atheists have their lessons nonetheless, their personal journey in life. So it is not for me to cast judgement, only in that one day the Light will be revealed, and they will slap their foreheads in wonder of their obtuse thinking.

I need not preach to the choir.

Atheism does however have a clear purpose when it is viewed through… ahem, the lens of a certain subtle force which will most likely not sit easily on the shelves of your ideological library. And that is ‘karma’. So I won’t go there (unless you wanted to explore it).

You went further, Star Mariner, by selecting a 'better' term than 'hard-wired', and that was the word 'desire', to which I equally agree. From a Biblical standpoint, the Bible uses the 'best' term by simply calling it 'faith!'

Faith is a great term to use, but only as an end-result. I feel that it cannot exist if the inclination has not yet been tapped into. As you say here:

When God, in His infinite Wisdom,....'dealt to every man the measure of faith',......He literally put within each one of us a 'seed' that was meant to germinate and come to complete fruition, if we would only allow it to grow.

I believe here is what the Scriptures are endeavoring to relate to us about our 'inward abilities'. It's not a matter of being 'hard-wired' and 'robotic in nature', but instead it's a matter of 'allowing the seed of faith to grow' and to reach maturity in our lives.

I agree, that is exactly right. The ‘seed’ exists, is there, and always will be, yet only as a potential until it is fed, until it is en-lightened, and shoots forth into Faith.

Conversely, every horticulturist knows that in order for a 'seed' to grow,.....it must 'first seek out the Light!'

Right on mate!

I really must commend and admire your command of scripture, and in plucking out just the right passage. Do you have much of these memorized?!

**

Hi there Akasha and welcome to the discussion:

Posted by Akasha (here)
With regard to 1 John 4.8 and specifically within it the iconic phrase "God is love" would you say it is fair to extrapolate from that that love is God? (A notion I personally subscribe to).

I need add nothing more than what kreagle has already said, except that although God is love, and Love is God, God can be much more than even that!

Have you or kreagle ever seen Star Wars? The Jedis talk about ‘the Force’, this incredible unseen force that ‘binds the galaxy together’ etc. Well that is a very good interpretation of describing another aspect to God (however Mr. Lucas seemed to miss out the part about love). But the galaxy, the universe, the All-That-Is really is in essence, for me anyway, a materialization – a communication if you will – a wonderful and infinitely various expression of God manifesting itself/himself/herself into tangible reality. There are quite a few who subscribe to this kind of idea, and some of them call it ‘the God-verse’.

[Akasha]

Posted by Star Mariner (here)
I need add nothing more than what kreagle has already said, except that although God is love, and Love is God, God can be much more than even that!

Have you or kreagle ever seen Star Wars? The Jedis talk about ‘the Force’, this incredible unseen force that ‘binds the galaxy together’ etc. Well that is a very good interpretation of describing another aspect to God (however Mr. Lucas seemed to miss out the part about love). But the galaxy, the universe, the All-That-Is really is in essence, for me anyway, a materialization – a communication if you will – a wonderful and infinitely various expression of God manifesting itself/himself/herself into tangible reality. There are quite a few who subscribe to this kind of idea, and some of them call it ‘the God-verse’.

I'm glad we're all on the same page regarding the notion that love is God. However, in response to your statement that "God can be much more than that" I'm struggling to wrap my head around the idea that love can be "much more than" love. How d'you figure the "All-That-Is" can be "much more than" the "All-That-Is". Don't get me wrong, I'm open to what you are saying. Maybe I just need an example to get where you're coming from.

In response to the hard wired/soft wired conundrum which you and Kreagle have been discussing, I feel that we are all manifestations of love (wether we choose to accept it in this lifetime or not) and as a result it is this that is responsible for the sub-conscious yearning or "preternatural orientation" which you mentioned previously.

Sorry if I'm drifting off topic slightly. There wasn't much biblical content in the above was there?

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

Hey brother and friend!

I really must commend and admire your command of scripture, and in plucking out just the right passage. Do you have much of these memorized?!

I thank you kindly for your commendations, but I gladly reflect them back to the One who deserves them,.....our Lord Jesus. Since being 'filled with His Spirit', some 32 years ago, I have learned the value of 'collecting and storing' His Word within my heart, much like the little squirrel 'collects and stores' his nuts for the long winter months he is facing. I have, indeed, memorized a 'great deal' of various passages, which His Spirit brings back to my recollection for those 'golden moments' in which they are to be deployed and used. Thanks to 'modern technology', ( and a 'search engine' on my Bible app!), I am able to remember a 'few select words, or passages,.....type them in the 'search engine',.....and then recall the precise passage I am looking for to use in that particular 'golden moment'. Of course, I wouldn't have a particular 'point to draw from' if I had not, earlier, 'collected and stored' the passage in my heart somewhere in the past. Here are a couple of 'hallmark passages' that began my quest........

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Psalm 119:11 (KJV)

11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.


It was basically from these 'two passages' that I began to allow God to write upon the 'canvas of my heart' with His Glorious Word. For any 'willing candidate' who will avail himself/herself to the 'Hand of the Master', the Work that He does will put to shame the 'greatest Rembrandt's and Picasso's of this world!' As in the case of the Genesis' account of creation,... when He finishes a Work that He is 'allowed to do', ( which certainly applies in 'our' case ),....these 'words of completion',...." and God saw that it was good.",....still 'echo today!'

and in plucking out just the right passage.

As I alluded to, earlier, It literally comes from Him, brother, in that I know, understand, and accept, that my ability only 'goes so far.'


Mark 13:11 (KJV)

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

again,.......


Luke 12:11-12 (KJV)

11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say


I can't begin to relay, here, the vast 'numbers of times' that God has placed me in various situations, (over the last 32 years), where I would begin to 'speak on His behalf' and to be absolutely astonished at the 'things that were coming out of my mouth!' Yes,....it was my mouth and voice being used,....but, the Words and Wisdom were not coming from 'kreagle',....they were coming from Him!

Consequently, I have come to realize, and observe, the many times where He has 'skillfully used me' to speak the 'right Words,....at the right time!'


Proverbs 25:11 (KJV)

11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.




********************The 'Word of God'*********************

While 'some' have discarded It and trampled It under foot,......'others' stumble upon It on a road paved with 'mercy and grace', and cherish It for the rest of their lives!

Psalm 119:162 (KJV)

162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.


Your brother, friend, and servant,...........kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Akasha (here)
I'm glad we're all on the same page regarding the notion that love is God. However, in response to your statement that "God can be much more than that" I'm struggling to wrap my head around the idea that love can be "much more than" love. How d'you figure the "All-That-Is" can be "much more than" the "All-That-Is". Don't get me wrong, I'm open to what you are saying. Maybe I just need an example to get where you're coming from.

Hey Akasha. Yes I do see what you’re saying, it does seem a bit of a non-sequitur that God can be more than well, God! But the context is all important. I did not mean to say that ‘love can be more than love’, love is just love, and God is the embodiment of love, however God is also the embodiment of wisdom, grace, humility, patience, compassion… and much more.

There is also a misconception in the Human perception of God, in how many maintain a very simplistic, humanized impression of God in their minds, most often an elderly man with a flowing white beard etc. Our view of this issue may differ here, which is absolutely fine…

Posted by Akasha (here)
In response to the hard wired/soft wired conundrum which you and Kreagle have been discussing, I feel that we are all manifestations of love (wether we choose to accept it in this lifetime or not) and as a result it is this that is responsible for the sub-conscious yearning or "preternatural orientation" which you mentioned previously.

A very good interpretation. Everybody is exactly that, a God in microcosm incarnate upon the earth – infinite power and infinite love in every being, however that divine core is most often darkly and deeply shrouded behind many layers of doubt, fear, and ego-distortion. Unfortunately so many have no clue about that, and that is exactly where TPTB would prefer to keep it!

Posted by kreagle (here)
Proverbs 25:11 (KJV)
11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

Hey kreagle, and thanks again for your thoughtful words! You are a learned man my friend to have absorbed, and be able to retain, that amount of information – and blessed to be put in a humbling position to be an instrument through which truth can flow!

But it really is beautifully apt, isn’t it, that the truth stays with us. That is because truth is already in us from the beginning (that wiring again!), but it is forever struggling, striving, to survive amid the detritus of earthly distortion… but when the chord is struck, and the truth hits home, it truly is like an apple of gold, suddenly, in pictures of silver. (I love that saying, mate!) And it is impossible to lose it once it is found… Never thereafter can Truth slip beneath the detritus.

All the best!

[Akasha]

Thanks for that, Star Mariner. I understand what you are saying now, but would you not agree that "wisdom, grace, humility, patience, compassion" are in fact attributes of love, not to mention the other qualities ascribed to "the Spirit" in Galatians 5.22-23 ?

[Akasha]

Star Mariner, I should also add that I totally agree with you regarding the "misconception in the Human perception of God". My concept of love actually being God helps to avoid that anthropomorphic trap too, instead summoning up images of energy or "the force" as you mentioned in one of your earlier posts.

[Beren]

Devil-liar

Devil (the concept) is a lie in motion or a person who identified with a or the lie.
This can be anybody.

Thus God sent his son in flesh to prove to all souls in existence that being in flesh is also divine and Godly.
Literary all is one on the highest level.
So God decided to materialize though Jesus and show other non materialized souls of how divine and Godly is to be human.

In the same time Jesus was separate being or a soul of the highest order.
But in essence Jesus is one with Father who is the spirit.

So dichotomy as it looks like but in essence the perfection at work.
God is spirit. So God is omnipresent and all-powerful and most importantly God is Love.

Jesus is God`s own image in flesh and further on in spirit world.
Only when one attains this level where Jesus was is and will be CAN see the Father.
No one ever saw God save Jesus.

But here`s the call from Jesus noted in Bible ; to whole humanity to become as Jesus is, to be at his level so we can see God wholly for the first time by merging with it.
Jesus is the door and no one can come to God unless through Jesus.

This is the core of his message, to grow into that frequency where he is so one can be united with God in all levels.

Full unity is only possible when one merges utterly with God and all separateness is dissolved into God - which is all that is ,which is Love.

[kreagle]

Akasha,

Thanks, so much, for your valued input, my friend!

Thanks for that, Star Mariner. I understand what you are saying now, but would you not agree that "wisdom, grace, humility, patience, compassion" are in fact attributes of love, not to mention the other qualities ascribed to "the Spirit" in Galatians 5.22-23 ?

I am confident that Star Mariner is more than able to 'speak for himself' on this, but I thought I would offer some insight on what I see, here. In reading Star Mariner's post, again, I don't believe he was putting a 'division' between the 'love of God' and, as he says........"however God is also the embodiment of wisdom, grace, humility, patience, compassion… and much more." As I see it, one needs to realize that when you begin to 'accept the terms and concepts of God, you get the 'whole package', so-to-speak.' You really can't get 'one' attribute of Him,....without getting the 'other',.....in that He just doesn't come 'packaged like that!' This is, sadly, where a great deal of 'individuals' really get themselves in a lot of spiritual/religious trouble because they try over and over to 'piece-meal' God out in their lives. They try to 'pick and choose' the 'terms and concepts of God', ( the 'ones they want'), instead of accepting Him in His entirety!

Matthew 4:4 (KJV)

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Star Mariner, I should also add that I totally agree with you regarding the "misconception in the Human perception of God". My concept of love actually being God helps to avoid that anthropomorphic trap too, instead summoning up images of energy or "the force" as you mentioned in one of your earlier posts.

Akasha, this 'misconception in the Human perception of God', is something that continues, ( and will continue), to haunt 'carnal mankind'. The 'only way to begin to understand Him' is to 'escape the bondage of carnality' and to be filled with the 'Holy Ghost', just like the 'early believers' were on the Day of Pentecost, in Acts chapter two. Then, and then only, will this 'misconception', you speak of, be defeated, finally allowing the 'rays of truth to shine in your heart!"


Romans 8:5-10 (KJV)

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


And 'this', my friend and brother, is certainly part of that 'package deal' that I spoke of earlier! The 'infilling of the Holy Ghost', ( with the evidence of speaking in 'other tongues' , as the Spirit gives the utterance).


And 'then' you will 'fully see,.....with no misconception!'


Your brother, friend, and servant,.........kreagle

[778 neighbour of some guy]

This is the core of his message, to grow into that frequency where he is so one can be united with God in all levels.

Full unity is only possible when one merges utterly with God and all separateness is dissolved into God - which is all that is ,which is Love.

Matisyahu... Lord raise me Up

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hhbJMlBzWd8

[kreagle]

Posted by 665 plumber of the beast (here)

This is the core of his message, to grow into that frequency where he is so one can be united with God in all levels.

Full unity is only possible when one merges utterly with God and all separateness is dissolved into God - which is all that is ,which is Love.

Matisyahu... Lord raise me Up

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hhbJMlBzWd8

hey brother,

Have to admit that I did not recognize this individual, so I 'Googled his name' and educated myself by reading about his life through Wikipedia. He's had a very interesting life. I only wish I knew the Hebrew language so I could 'fully enjoy' what he was singing about. It 'sounded good', but without 'understanding the words' it's hard to really make an educated decision as to 'how much' I enjoyed it.

your brother,........kreagle

[kreagle]

It 'doesn't take much',...to make 'all the difference in the World!'



************The 'Measure of Faith'************

From 'this',........



Luke 13:19 (KJV)

19 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.



To 'one of these',........



On 'another thread', by Anchor, ( Faith and Will), I submitted the following post. This deals with 'faith', (which we've recently talked about), and I want to equally share it, here, with you. I sincerely pray that it helps each of you in your personal quest for a 'victorious Christian life!' I've supplied the link,...if you care to view it.

Link: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post560821



Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


While 'most' are captivated by the descriptive term of faith being,....'the evidence of things not seen',......I'm afraid that little, to no, attention is being paid to the first descriptive part of the Scripture which tells us that,.......'faith is the substance!!'

Until 'mankind' starts viewing, and treating, faith as a 'genuine substance', I'm afraid there are going to be a lot of people failing to fully realize and achieve what God has in store for them.

To your credit, you accurately point this concept out, with your example of 'breathing air' that we can't see, but that we all know it's there. My only problem with this is that I'm really not sure how many, of those same people, are really, truthfully, understanding what the Bible is telling us about 'substance' and it's relationship to 'faith!'

Herein lies the problem. If we wave our hand through 'open air', and our 'eyes are open', then we do not expect to 'hit anything',.....right? Under this simple exercise, we fully expect to come up 'empty-handed', don't we? After all, we have our 'eyes wide open' and we've all clearly seen that 'nothing is there',....right?

Conversely,....can anyone, here, imagine, (just for a moment), how you would feel, or respond, if you were to complete this 'same exercise', but 'this time', to your amazement, you actually 'feel a tangible object striking against your hand?' As your eyes 'widen with astonishment', you begin to 'feel this tangible object'. which has now become 'substance'.You can't 'see' it,...but you can 'sure feel it!' What would you do? How would you respond? Would you become a 'believer',.....or would you 'scream and run for the hills?'

Is anyone 'beginning to see', (understand), why we humans have so much problems with this kind of 'Biblical faith?'

Faith has 'substance', folks! By definition,....'substance has mass and occupies space!!' If you and I walk up to 'each other' and 'extend a hand for a handshake',.....I fully 'expect to feel your hand as both of our hands unite!' I do not expect to come up 'empty handed!'

Let me share, with you, a very interesting Passage that should 'illustrate this concept further',.......


Matthew 14:24-31 (KJV)

24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.

25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?


As 'Creator, Savior, and Restorator',......Jesus took His 'Creative Word', rebuked His Creation, (the 'elements and the boisterous sea'), He 'over-rode' their properties, and walked 'triumphantly over them, and upon them!' He simply 'walked upon His Word!'


He wants His Creation, (us), to be 'triumphant, also!',....over the many 'obstacles we face!'


If we will 'only learn' to follow in the 'steps of our Master', and 'stand on His Word,.....put 'faith' in His Word,.....and start treating 'faith like it has substance',.....we will 'all' begin to find that we are 'walking on top of situations/problems' that were 'formerly sinking us!'

While there are 'those' who believe that there was 'water underneath Peter's feet',....as he walked, ( for awhile), towards Jesus,.....I will submit to 'each of you' that this is a 'complete misunderstanding and interpretation of the Scriptures!'

You, nor I, ( nor Peter), can 'walk on water',.....it's an 'impossibility!'

But,.....we can, ( and Peter did),.....walk on 'faith' in His Word,.....and 'if' we 'just happen to be',.....over water,.....or......any other potential 'sinking problem/situation',....we will 'rise to the top and be victorious in Jesus' name!'

Between the soles of Peter's feet and that boisterous sea was a 'thin layer of faith',.....'faith with substance',......'real faith',.....'tangible faith',.....'you could feel it',.....'he knew he could rely upon it',......and consequently 'it held him up as he got out of the boat to walk to Jesus!' It was only 'after he doubted and took his eyes off of Jesus and viewed the storm', that the 'substance of faith' began to 'dissipate' causing him to sink and to call out to be saved.

Perhaps it would be wise to 'reach out and grab hold of faith', my friends,....and whatever you do,....don't be surprised and 'run away' when 'something tangible' winds up in your hands!


Your brother, friend, and servant,.......kreagle