Bible Topics and Questions

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
As always, thanks for your reply. What may appear to you as 'judging someones' walk with God' is more accurately meant to be a 'great concern' for my fellow 'classmates!'

It was kinda tongue-in-cheek that, I never perceived you to be the judgemental type at all. And you’re not! But I wouldn’t worry about these other church-going folk who might not see the Bible as you do, or share the same interpretations of scripture. Even one who has the basic, beginning understanding of God and spirituality, in whatever church or in whatever form it might take, they’re on that path and heading in the right direction (again at their own pace).

Posted by kreagle (here)
I care, very deeply, and I really endeavor to 'root for everyone',....and to readily avail myself for 'tutoring purposes'.

An honourable and very noble deed my friend. But those who already walk the Godly way, let them be. It is the entirely negative, chaotic, and Godless that need our assistance most, and them we should have concern for. To those entirely without should we direct our concentrated effort, in helping, healing, and mentoring the important spiritual lessons! Some will turn away, and refuse those first, tentative, baby steps. Grieve for them if you will, but realise that the path to God is inevitable, if not in this life for them, then in another. It is as inevitable as a bubble of air rising from the depths of the ocean. It will drift here, drift there, get hitched in place by an obstacle. But eventually, some day, some how, it will wriggle free, up, up towards open air, to find a way home.

Grieve not for the seed that does not take, as soon as the others around it. It will arrive in accordance to the sum of its own parts, and in fair time, at its own pace.

Posted by kreagle (here)
I'm sure you are in agreement with me, to this point, but my next statement may prove to be problematic to you, in that,....."how shall they pass if their 'textbook' has 'missing, removed, eliminated' pages from it?" The 'Christian of today', (that I spoke of in my quote), who has removed/eliminated these 'vital pages' from their 'textbook, the Bible' are going to desperately need them come 'test time', my friend. The 'Christian of today' may attempt to tell the Teacher,...."no thanks, this particular lesson, you are endeavoring to teach me, doesn't 'resonate with me',...so, if you don't mind,....I'll just 'sit this one out!' " While 'sitting these lessons out' may seem like the 'popular route' that many are employing today,....I will candidly tell you that this 'misguided system' won't 'grade out very well, in the end.'

Well my friend, it depends what lesson you’re talking about here, if there is a particular instance that you’re referring to, such as a Christian friend of yours who is having difficulty in his/her Bible studies, or if you’re merely citing an example.

If, for instance, one chooses to let a particular aspect of scripture go because it doesn’t ‘resonate’ with them, fine! Why not? This ‘Test’ you underline, is it a spiritual test; in purity, in goodness, in love, and in faith of that purity and goodness and love, or is it just an Intellectual Test?... “The Biblical Weakest Link!! – Elimination round! For 1 point: Name the sons of Abraham, answer incorrectly and I Smite ye now!…” Too many place a cerebral, historical and scholarly emphasis on Scripture, my friend, and that is why they stay separated from any Truth to be garnered within. I’m sure you’re thinking I’m completely contradicting myself. Not at all. The important matter here is, I see the Truths contained within the Bible. The important Truths. Anything else that sits ‘on the fence’, or delivers no essential information with regards to the greater spiritual truth, isn’t important, is it?

I’m sure God will not stand judgement over those who didn’t interpret the Bible correctly (even if there can be ‘a correct way’ at all). For, with a man-written, man-edited, manipulated account, how can we possibly be certain what the Christian truth actually is?

Exodus 20:5
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Suffer the little children for the sins of the parent!

Ezekiel 18:19-20
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Oh wait! Suffer NOT the little children for the sins of the parent!

Just a little example there that the Bible is not black and white. We’ve had that chat before, and we both know where we (want to) stand. But just to illustrate the counterpoint here. The finer details are not important. Only that which leaps off the page AS TRUTH, is. And truth is Jesus.

Posted by kreagle (here)
Let me make it clear, that in no way am I trying to imply that I'm a A+ student, for I have to work, daily, to improve my walk with God. While there are days when I hoover around a B-, there are other days when I wonder if I'm passing 'at all!' It's then that I find that His Mercy and Grace allows me to 'find that special place of repentance'

It is always there within you, it is always there, even if you, even if we all, sometimes forget. Human frailty, human distortion and human ego – the trappings of a modern (chaotic) world, suppress it, smother it, hide it, or at least try to. But if we hold true to what we’ve learned, a simple remembrance, or a prayer, will liberate it.

Posted by kreagle (here)
I'd hate to think where I might be, with only a 'partial textbook',....but thankfully I don't have to worry about that!

Well matey, in my opinion, you do have a partial textbook. A very great textbook though it is, it is but one on the shelf by which wisdom can be learned, and truth imparted.

All the best!

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Grace of God

The 'precious' Grace of God. What does that mean to you?,.....and is there a 'lesson to be learned from it?'
Thoughts,.....anyone?

A good question mate. Here are the various meanings as they are in the English language.
(Bolded: my own interpretations of God with emphasis on the word ‘grace’, as I recognise it. )

Grace:
noun

• 1. Elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action: Synonyms: attractiveness, charm, gracefulness, comeliness, ease, lissomeness, fluidity.
  
• 2. A pleasing or attractive quality or endowment: He lacked the manly graces.
  
• 3. Favor or goodwill. Synonyms: kindness, kindliness, love, benignity; condescension.
  
• 4. A manifestation of favor, especially by a superior: Synonyms: forgiveness, charity, mercifulness.
  
• 5. Mercy; clemency; pardon: Synonyms: lenity, leniency, reprieve.

This is the Grace of God. And when one is met with wonder, or a blessing, it is apt to use as a proclamation of thanks, and perhaps a little awe.

But it is unfortunately so, in my opinion, that Mankind has seen fit to over-use (hijack) this phrase for his own ends, particularly in monarchies, governments, and quite secular protocols. “By the Grace of God, and the powers vested in me…”, or “By the Grace of God and the people of the Republic of ….”[blah de blah]

So often a mortal man will, like a magistrate, interpret Grace as just this! like a kind of ‘Divine Permission’, for an act, or a ritual, or the passing of some sort of judgement, and so he invokes ‘the Grace of God’. But is he? And does he have the right? In my opinion, No… This kind of ‘Grace’, from God, is ultimately ‘His’ own to communicate, if you will. It is never for a man, a woman, a cause, or a nation, to either ‘assume’ (simulate for effect), or blithely exercise as a ‘given’ right.

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

The important matter here is, I see the Truths contained within the Bible. The important Truths. Anything else that sits ‘on the fence’, or delivers no essential information with regards to the greater spiritual truth, isn't important, is it?

I’m sure God will not stand judgement over those who didn't interpret the Bible correctly (even if there can be ‘a correct way’ at all). For, with a man-written, man-edited, manipulated account, how can we possibly be certain what the Christian truth actually is?

Brother, your statement and rationale, are very perplexing for I must sincerely ask you,......"who gave you, ( or anyone else), the 'Divine Permission' to decide what is 'important' in the Word of God,.......and what is 'not important?' "

Your 'follow up reply' to my question on Grace, ( a 'good one', by the way), fully indicates that you really do know the answer to this question,....but that you don't necessarily always follow your insight, here.

So often a mortal man will, like a magistrate, interpret Grace as just this! like a kind of ‘Divine Permission’, for an act, or a ritual, or the passing of some sort of judgement, and so he invokes ‘the Grace of God’. But is he? And does he have the right? In my opinion, No… This kind of ‘Grace’, from God, is ultimately ‘His’ own to communicate, if you will. It is never for a man, a woman, a cause, or a nation, to either ‘assume’ (simulate for effect), or blithely exercise as a ‘given’ right

Brother, is it....... “By the Grace of God, and the powers vested in me…”, that you, ( or anyone else), can take it upon yourself to decide what is 'important and what is not' within the recorded Scriptures of God? Do you really think that God has relegated a portion of His Word to just be 'filler based', to simply 'fill in the blank spaces with unessential material',.....just to give It more volume?

Now before I go any further,.....I fully realize, Star Mariner, that we are simply dealing with 'two totally different mindsets here, my friend.'

While 'my mindset' incorporates a belief system that begins in Genesis, chapter 1, and goes completely through Revelation, chapter 22, ( 66 Book in all),......'your mindset' is entirely different,......and quite frankly, I'm not sure 'how many books' of the Bible you really ascribe to.

Herein lies the problem, an impasse between the 'two different mindsets', brother,.......pure, plain, and simple.

Once again we are faced with the statement,......."we will just have to agree to not agree", is fully applicable, here.


I fully believe that 'all' of His Scriptures are to be noted and followed,......

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


I believe that 'all' of His Scripture is 'God-driven and that He is the Author',......



2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

'Your mindset', ( and others), indicates 'otherwise',...in reference to It's 'Authorship' and complete validity,......

For, with a man-written, man-edited, manipulated account, how can we possibly be certain what the Christian truth actually is?

also,....

I’m sure God will not stand judgement over those who didn't interpret the Bible correctly (even if there can be ‘a correct way’ at all).

I hope that 2 Timothy is not one of those 'many Books of the Bible' that you are excluding,.....for if it is,....perhaps that is why you would make your preceding statement in the way you did.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Again, brother,.....it's 'all' in the mindset, my dear friend!

This is 'why' I've stated on 'numerous occasions' the absolute vital need to have the 'mind of Christ', which can only be accomplished by being 'filled with His Spirit, the Holy Ghost!'


1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (KJV)

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.


I can 'assure' you brother,....things become completely lucid,....when you take on the 'mind of Christ!' Without the 'infilling of His Spirit' you're going to be left 'scratching your head trying to figure things out',...despite all of your best efforts, and intents, my friend.


God Bless,....your friend, brother, and servant,.......kreagle

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

Thank you, so much, for your comments, thus far, on the topic,.....'Grace of God'.

Posted by kreagle (here)
Grace of God

The 'precious' Grace of God. What does that mean to you?,.....and is there a 'lesson to be learned from it?'
Thoughts,.....anyone?

I'm going to leave a 'preliminary verse' of Scripture for 'everyone' to view and to perhaps,......'ponder upon',....and I will follow up on tomorrow afternoon. In this particular Scripture we 'begin to see' the awesome magnitude of the 'Grace of God',....exactly what He is 'extending to us all',...and the 'lesson' I was referring to. I would like to invite as many, as possible, to contribute to this 'topic', as you may see fit.


Titus 2:11-15 (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.


This particular 'topic' is more vital than anyone can really imagine, for in it we begin to visualize the 'True Nature of God', and His desires and plans for His Creation,.....you and I.

Until later,.....your brother, friend, and servant,.........kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Star Mariner,

Brother, your statement and rationale, are very perplexing for I must sincerely ask you,......"who gave you, ( or anyone else), the 'Divine Permission' to decide what is 'important' in the Word of God,.......and what is 'not important?' "

If I understand your questions correctly, in ‘who gave me permission’ to decide what is important, then who else? Me! I am after all one of God’s children, yes? He blessed me, along with everyone else, with sovereign spirit, heart and intelligence, and most importantly, free-will – the right to choose. I have the right to select the thought-forms that define my reality. And I have the intelligence to discern what is truth, and what is not, in accordance with the ‘mind-set’ I have thus far accumulated.

To waive that Divine Right – to not ask questions, is to deny oneself a very fundamental privilege. Without I Think, I Discern, and I Choose, all you are left with is I, Robot.

I know we don’t share the same mind-set mate, and I know that you know this too – well you should by now. I have tried thus far, as hard as I can, to explain exactly why I don’t share the same mind-set. There shouldn’t by now be any ‘perplexity’, as you say, in how you perceive me, as my rationale is laid out over this and preceding pages. If you have read any of what I have said, that is.

I am trying to answer your questions kreagle, but to be honest I am having difficulty understanding them. But at least I am trying. I will not ahem… ‘overlook’ them…. I myself am waiting on a number of your responses to things that remain as yet unaddressed…

There is one very important difference between me and you my friend, and it’s that I know, and I acknowledge, that my ‘mind-set’, as you call it, is not a fixed structure. It is organic and changeable – I am prepared to let it adapt to new information, because I know that I do not have all the answers. I know that I am still searching. That’s why I look beyond the Bible.

So often a mortal man will, like a magistrate, interpret Grace as just this! like a kind of ‘Divine Permission’, for an act, or a ritual, or the passing of some sort of judgement, and so he invokes ‘the Grace of God’. But is he? And does he have the right? In my opinion, No… This kind of ‘Grace’, from God, is ultimately ‘His’ own to communicate, if you will. It is never for a man, a woman, a cause, or a nation, to either ‘assume’ (simulate for effect), or blithely exercise as a ‘given’ right

Your 'follow up reply' to my question on Grace, ( a 'good one', by the way), fully indicates that you really do know the answer to this question,....but that you don't necessarily always follow your insight, here.

I think you might have misunderstood. Yes, my rationale is that we are all divine beings, blessed with spirit, and that in many ways the grace of God is in all of us. But what I meant by my statement above is how the phrase has been ‘institutionalized’, incorporated into thoroughly secular affairs – particularly in law and judiciary matters. Those matters which are man-made, or are discharged by man, is not the same as ‘the grace of God’, is it? These things are by the grace of the government. Do you not see what I mean?

Do you really think that God has relegated a portion of His Word to just be 'filler based', to simply 'fill in the blank spaces with unessential material',.....just to give It more volume?

No I don’t. You should be very clear now, my friend, with my position on the Old Testament – that that doctrine was inspired largely by the Yahweh group, not the God-Creator. You need not continue to think that I am ‘choosing’ to ignore parts of his ‘Word’ simply because I feel like it, its because these writings are mythology, garbled creation-myths blended with ET interventions, and nothing to do with the actual word of God…

Open up kreagle, expand. You want to know more about this Yahweh information…? (I know, you probably don’t). It was mentioned just the other day in the Spirituality section on a thread about the 24 elders mentioned in Rev.

While 'my mindset' incorporates a belief system that begins in Genesis, chapter 1, and goes completely through Revelation, chapter 22, ( 66 Book in all),......'your mindset' is entirely different,......and quite frankly, I'm not sure 'how many books' of the Bible you really ascribe to.

No particular book or collection of books. But mostly the NT, and that which Jesus himself spoke. Yes I realise fully that there was no one there to take his dictation; that it was decades after his death that the words he had spoken in life were at last set down – via channelling of all things (ironic isn’t it). You can believe what you like, and say what you like. But we do both recognise Jesus as a spiritual teacher of the highest possible calibre that has ever walked the earth. Yes, there are many wonderful things to read through the entire Bible, but of ‘doctrine’, if I were to choose that word, it would be His that I ascribe to. To His I attribute most importance.

Herein lies the problem, an impasse between the 'two different mindsets', brother,.......pure, plain, and simple.

Disparity on some issues – only on particulars – perhaps, but there are no problems here. There needn’t be anyway. I suggested once before that we turn away from that which divide us, because it will be as treading water, and talk only on that which unites us.

You know, I asked my mother recently about some of this. She is 74, and is a devout Christian. She has attended church at least twice a week since she was a child, and is as good a Christian lady as you could find. I asked her about the authorship of the Bible, and her answer was very interesting, for it has changed with the years. Her eyes are open. She has broken free of her rigid programming. She pointed out a book to me that she is reading right now called ‘Scripting Jesus’, and highlights exactly the point I’ve been trying to make all along.

I know you’ve said before that there are many topics on PA that you will just not look at, and I don’t know why that is. Is it because they are too controversial, too esoteric?

Will you check it out the above link, and look into these matters? My gut-feeling says no. It says no because, my dear friend – and with greatest respect – that anything that does not conform to your religious ‘conditioning’, or that tasks you to confront the possibility that your Biblical reality is not what you think it is, creates a massive shift in your comfort-zone. It is just safer to stay away. I understand that, and sympathize with it. But you need not fear. Nothing that I understand, or know, actually conflicts with your concept of God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost or any of that. So there really is no need to be afraid…

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

I know we don’t share the same mind-set mate, and I know that you know this too – well you should by now. I have tried thus far, as hard as I can, to explain exactly why I don’t share the same mind-set. There shouldn’t by now be any ‘perplexity’, as you say, in how you perceive me, as my rationale is laid out over this and preceding pages. If you have read any of what I have said, that is.

I am trying to answer your questions kreagle, but to be honest I am having difficulty understanding them. But at least I am trying. I will not ahem… ‘overlook’ them…. I myself am waiting on a number of your responses to things that remain as yet unaddressed…

Brother, I am, in no way 'perplexed' with who you 'currently are'. My 'perplexity' is with your statement,....'Divine Permission', and deals with the simple fact that you can readily recognize that it is wrong for 'others' to invoke,....“By the Grace of God, and the powers vested in me…”, but yet fail to understand that they apply to you, also! Now, I fully understand the context in which you used this example, ( to which I agree with), but this 'line of thinking' that you use equally applies to what I referred to,... you deciding 'what is important and what is not', in relationship to the 'Word of God'. If you sense that I am being 'overly alarmed' in my response to you,......quite frankly, it's because I am, my dear friend. What you 'casually do', in your decision process, has much more ramifications than you can possibly imagine! As you go through those '66 Books of the Bible', making your choice of 'what is important to adhere to, and what is not',...I sincerely advise you to not discard those many Books that you have 'chosen to reject' too far away, so that you might be able to 'retrieve them one day!'


Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


While there are 'those' who would attempt to point out that 'these warnings of verses 18 and 19' only apply for the content of the Book of Revelation,....I will inform them that this warning is fully 'applicable for the entire Word of God'.

.....my rationale is laid out over this and preceding pages. If you have read any of what I have said, that is.

I am trying to answer your questions kreagle, but to be honest I am having difficulty understanding them. But at least I am trying. I will not ahem… ‘overlook’ them…. I myself am waiting on a number of your responses to things that remain as yet unaddressed…

Even though you may think that I am 'merely overlooking your replies' and not taking the time to read them, I can assure you that you are completely wrong in your accusations, here. This goes back directly to the 'two different mindsets' that we have been speaking about, friend. There is a 'new birth experience', ( that I have spoken of in detail), that I have undergone,.... and It causes you, ( and 'others'), to sometimes not fully comprehend what I am endeavoring to relate to you. Believe me, I am not trying to be 'evasive or elusive', my dear friend. It's almost like we are on 'two separate wave lengths' at times,....to the frustration of 'you,.....and I, both!' Furthermore, the frustration compounds itself for 'you', in that, I cannot, ( and will not), be able to return to my 'former mindset', prior to my 'new birth experience', so that we can then be able to 'fully communicate' with complete understanding of each other. The frustration for 'me' is the great difficulty that I, ( and many others), have in trying to persuade you, ( and many others), that the 'new birth experience' is fully attainable for you, too! Then, and then only, will we be fully able to 'communicate with ease', for we will, at that time, have tuned in to the same frequency, my brother.


1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (KJV)

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I myself am waiting on a number of your responses to things that remain as yet unaddressed…

Brother, I can only think of 'one possibility' of a particular question you asked, ( which I thought I did, indeed, answer in a later post), that might fit into this category that you are now bringing up. I promise you, I am, in no way, trying to evade or ignore any questions you, ( or others), may have. If you will 'restate your questions', I will do everything I can to answer them.

There is one very important difference between me and you my friend, and it’s that I know, and I acknowledge, that my ‘mind-set’, as you call it, is not a fixed structure. It is organic and changeable – I am prepared to let it adapt to new information, because I know that I do not have all the answers. I know that I am still searching. That’s why I look beyond the Bible.

To your charge of me having a 'mind-set which is a fixed structure', that is true in regards to my outlook on His Word, which is, likewise, a 'fixed structure', as we see, here,.......

Psalm 119:89 (KJV)

89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.

Brother, my mindset, has become 'just like His Word',.....'settled',....a 'fixed structure',....for He has proven It to me in every fashion to be His Word, indeed. Now in complete fairness, Star Mariner, even you should be able to recall the many 'things you've noticed about me' that have 'taken you by surprise', as you have put it. This 'list of things' includes,.......believing in 'UFO's,...visitors', (ED's, fallen angels, to me), from 'out there' when most religious individuals won't give it the time of day to begin with,.....and to being surprised that I looked as deeply as I have into the 'UFO phenomenon' as I have,...so you see I have, indeed, allowed my 'mindset' to look beyond the Bible, ( without abandoning even 'one page of It'), now hasn't it? You see, when I look 'beyond the Bible',...I still have It 'under my arm, and nestled in my heart, and memory' so that I can compare the information I am gathering from 'out there' to what is contained within His Word. Then I am able to spiritually decipher what is 'true and what is not'.

There is a 'huge difference' in 'looking beyond the Bible', (but never abandoning 'one page' of It),..and...'looking beyond the Bible', (and regarding a major portion of it as 'unimportant', anyway!) If you will be honest with yourself, Star Mariner, is it not I who 'looks beyond the Bible',....while you, my friend, simply 'overlook the Bible'? Aren't your accusations a little hasty and unfounded?

I know you’ve said before that there are many topics on PA that you will just not look at, and I don’t know why that is. Is it because they are too controversial, too esoteric?

If you'll look on 'my posts', you will find that I do comment on a variety of topics here at PA, from time-to-time. In an effort to 'accurately answer' this question I will readily admit that there are a 'wide variety' of topics that I find totally unappealing to me. Whether it's talking about,......having sexual relations with one's deceased partner,....to participating in the many 'channel' threads, ( channeling is the 'modern term' used for 'divination' in the Bible, which is forbidden by God),.....to participating in conversations with individuals who 'think they are God,....and will eagerly tell you so',....(just to name a 'few'). I wouldn't begin to get on some of these threads because I can assure you I would be 'out of place' and 'trespassing on their territory'. Whether I agree with their 'topics', or not, they deserve the right to have their discussions as they please without interference from me.

(post update)

By the way, there are a 'great deal' of useful threads on PA, and I didn't want you, ( or anyone else), to think that I was systematically categorizing everything in the small 'select group' that I made reference to, above. Many times I simply find myself 'browsing and reading',....and adding an occasional 'thank you' to the threads that I deem to be 'thank able'. It's also during these many times of simply 'browsing and reading' that I am in reality,.....'looking beyond the Bible',...for there is, has been, and will be, a great deal of valuable information one can gather during these moments.

(my quote) Herein lies the problem, an impasse between the 'two different mindsets', brother,.......pure, plain, and simple.

(your quote)
Disparity on some issues – only on particulars – perhaps, but there are no problems here. There needn’t be anyway. I suggested once before that we turn away from that which divide us, because it will be as treading water, and talk only on that which unites us.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Star Mariner. I don't expect our 'mindsets' to coalesce any time soon, for the many reasons we have 'both' pointed out in great detail. I do want you to know that I value your input, and growing friendship, to which I am personally looking forward to sharing and/or receiving more 'enlightenment' with you, my dear friend.


As always,.....your friend, brother, and servant,.......kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Even though you may think that I am 'merely overlooking your replies' and not taking the time to read them, I can assure you that you are completely wrong in your accusations, here. This goes back directly to the 'two different mindsets' that we have been speaking about, friend. There is a 'new birth experience', ( that I have spoken of in detail), that I have undergone,.... and It causes you, ( and 'others'), to sometimes not fully comprehend what I am endeavoring to relate to you. Believe me, I am not trying to be 'evasive or elusive', my dear friend. It's almost like we are on 'two separate wave lengths' at times,....to the frustration of 'you,.....and I, both!' Furthermore, the frustration compounds itself for 'you', in that, I cannot, ( and will not), be able to return to my 'former mindset', prior to my 'new birth experience', so that we can then be able to 'fully communicate' with complete understanding of each other.

Hello mate, I’m going to respond firstly to this part, from the middle of your last reply, as it is a most important point, which for my part I must present a broader explanation.

I understand very clearly your position, and the significance and magnitude of your convictions – ‘born’ as they were from a magnificent experience – your ‘in-filling’ of the Holy Ghost as you say. It is also, I understand, your earnest mission (need) to share this experience with others, and to try and bring them somewhat in-line with the trajectory of your own life-path which visited this profound Illumination upon you, so they can arrive in the same place as you. Yes?

You say that perhaps people don't ‘comprehend what you are endeavouring to relate', hence the misunderstandings… I do comprehend, very clearly. You are certainly not the first person in this exact mind-set with whom I have engaged in philosophical/spiritual debate. But you must understand, kreagle, my friend, that I was ‘born’ myself, a long time ago, and yes, I passed along a different wavelength. But what you seek to bring to my attention, I already have!

It is quite an oversight my friend to think that one’s life, one’s own experience, one’s own mind-set, is the only valid one out there. Alas, that this is what religion does – it deigns to fill the heart and mind with such a glorious sense of awe, and revelation, and righteousness, that the out-looking senses are deceived into believing that others beyond the periphery of one’s own ministry live all in darkness, and do not understand or see what you see. We do. I do. But in a different wavelength. Because there are others!

So you see mate, you are preaching to the choir here!

The frustration for 'me' is the great difficulty that I, ( and many others), have in trying to persuade you, ( and many others), that the 'new birth experience' is fully attainable for you, too! Then, and then only, will we be fully able to 'communicate with ease', for we will, at that time, have tuned in to the same frequency, my brother.

This ‘born-again’ experience – the in-filling of the Holy Ghost, as you call it, is not unknown to me. For me it felt like stumbling out of a deep, dark sleep, into a light, such a glorious, warm light of absolute majesty that the stomach leapt, the heart sang, and I really did feel like a brand new being. We are the same. If only you could glimpse beyond your confines and realise that we are the same – you and me! This why I came here kreagle. We may debate this, or dispute that, but like I said very early on, details don’t matter. (They matter to you, very much it seems. But that is what religion does. It creates a conceptual captivity to which one is powerless to escape. There is a another place outside of it you know, where all that you feel, all you believe, all that you love about God, or Jesus, and all of that, exists. But it exists in freedom.)

WhiteCrowBlackDeer said it beautifully in this thread here: And I quote her:

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
My wish is for everyone to see the hidden likeness rather than the differences in us All. Sometimes the human element is lost when the one eclipses another’s idea with clever factoids and parallel talk.

This was my objective, kreagle. And I so wish it was yours…only then can we 'communicate with ease'. I aspire to cultivate a mutual understanding, to seek out those things that can bring us together, not cleave us apart – as doctrine would have us do. Yes we have wandered along some unexpected tangents in this thread, and I was always happy to ‘follow the flow’ of the conversation to wherever it would lead. And still am. But neither one us, I think – we both who have seen the Light – can say anything to ‘persuade’ the other that his path is unenlightened, or wrong. It is only in theoretical/metaphysical elements that we differ.

********

Posted by kreagle (here)
Brother, I am, in no way 'perplexed' with who you 'currently are'. My 'perplexity' is with your statement,....'Divine Permission', and deals with the simple fact that you can readily recognize that it is wrong for 'others' to invoke,....“By the Grace of God, and the powers vested in me…”, but yet fail to understand that they apply to you, also!

Yes quite true, and well pointed out. I understand now, and I see exactly what you’re saying. There is one subtle stipulation in what I was trying to convey that was behind my reasoning. It was concerning the use of this phrase by those who have absolutely no connection, no knowledge, and no interest in God. ‘Divine Permission’ is absolute, and constant in everyone of us. It is in essence ‘Free-will’ by another name. You brought up something like this before I think, regarding an Atheist who, in dire straits, suddenly invokes the name of He who has gone unrecognised all their life. I was trying to make a point similar to that. That is say: if you are to invoke the name of God, even in a secular way, at least have a mind to look into the ‘Mystery’, and figure out what He’s all about.

Posted by kreagle (here)
While there are 'those' who would attempt to point out that 'these warnings of verses 18 and 19' only apply for the content of the Book of Revelation,....I will inform them that this warning is fully 'applicable for the entire Word of God'.

Before I actually answer, you bring up a point I’d like to explore. That is: ‘The Word of God’. You mention this often. What’s your definition of that by the way? It’s an interesting topic I think, which I’d like to discuss at some point in another post maybe… Perhaps you could make one (a la ‘The Grace of God’ post), and outline what your perspective is.

Posted by kreagle (here)

Posted by Star Mariner (here)
I myself am waiting on a number of your responses to things that remain as yet unaddressed…

Brother, I can only think of 'one possibility' of a particular question you asked, ( which I thought I did, indeed, answer in a later post), that might fit into this category that you are now bringing up. I promise you, I am, in no way, trying to evade or ignore any questions you, ( or others), may have. If you will 'restate your questions', I will do everything I can to answer them.

It was mainly in regards to certain precepts laid out in scripture which offer completely contradictory accounts, such as Adam died at this age in one verse, a totally different age later on etc. Or in the two ‘Sins of the father’ quotes from before, which are in opposition to each other. If scripture is absolute – that there can be no alternative interpretation in what is written – then how can we possibly resolve these inconsistencies?

Posted by kreagle (here)
There is a 'huge difference' in 'looking beyond the Bible', (but never abandoning 'one page' of It),..and...'looking beyond the Bible', (and regarding a major portion of it as 'unimportant', anyway!) If you will be honest with yourself, Star Mariner, is it not I who 'looks beyond the Bible',....while you, my friend, simply 'overlook the Bible'? Aren't your accusations a little hasty and unfounded?

Am I ‘overlooking the bible’, or certain aspects of it? In a way, yes, I am. By now you should at least identify with the reasons why – why I choose to relegate some matters as ‘unimportant’. I did explain this, but for clarification:

We go back again to the ‘Word of God’, which we need to look into at some point, and arrive at a unified understand at what that is. What you believe it is, I think, is different to what I believe. That, again, as I’ve said before, is the fundamental difference in our philosophies, and the fulcrum around which our mind-sets move. Your ‘Word of God’ is that which actually came down from Heaven, into men, and was transcribed as words onto a page: the Torah, in effect. Now, I believe this ‘word of God’ is the spiritual teachings of a ‘group’ of beings

Gen 1:26

…And God said, Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness…]

…This quote is in direct reference to the Yahweh creation. It was a group of ET beings that genetically enhanced primitive, indigenous Man, then created Homo Sapiens using themselves as a blueprint (“our image”). About 3,300 years, it is understood, they returned to morally, spiritually, and socially educate (correct) their ‘wayward’ creation. This was achieved for the most part via channelling, and in some quite visual appearances – interventions […And God came down…] etc etc. Such direct interventions, appearances, smitings or whatever don’t happen today, do they! There certainly is call for it, don’t you agree!? But it’s because Yahweh and his crew hauled ass long ago.

So my Old Testament ‘Word of God’ is the word of extra-terrestrials. That is abundantly clear to me, yet unclear to the ‘indoctrinated’, for it is an ‘inconvenience’ to so note the many signposts that lead us to this conclusion. So it is ignored, because the origins of these Judeo-Christian myths has been assimilated so deeply into doctrine it has become tradition… institutionalized tradition. And it is too painful for many to break free of it.

Whereas I don’t believe Yahweh’s teachings were unimportant, they ain’t God. Messengers maybe, the mentors therefrom. But they ain’t God. Just more ET idols ancient Man perceived as God. And the rest, as they say, is history. But I look to the words of Jesus, and again emphasize the importance of what he had to say above all others…

Posted by kreagle (here)
If you'll look on 'my posts', you will find that I do comment on a variety of topics here at PA, from time-to-time. In an effort to 'accurately answer' this question I will readily admit that there are a 'wide variety' of topics that I find totally unappealing to me. Whether it's talking about,......having sexual relations with one's deceased partner,....to participating in the many 'channel' threads, ( channeling is the 'modern term' used for 'divination' in the Bible, which is forbidden by God),.....to participating in conversations with individuals who 'think they are God,....and will eagerly tell you so',....(just to name a 'few'). I wouldn't begin to get on some of these threads because I can assure you I would be 'out of place' and 'trespassing on their territory'. Whether I agree with their 'topics', or not, they deserve the right to have their discussions as they please without interference from me.

Wow. I don't disbelieve you at all, but I have to say those are pretty much ‘right out there’, and not my cup of tea either. Who has ever claimed they ‘are God’ btw? But mate there’s a ton of other great stuff throughout PA, particularly on the Spirituality section, or the 2012 stuff, Future Talk, Conspiracies. UFOs as well of course.

Posted by kreagle (here)
I agree wholeheartedly with you, Star Mariner. I don't expect our 'mindsets' to coalesce any time soon, for the many reasons we have 'both' pointed out in great detail. I do want you to know that I value your input, and growing friendship, to which I am personally looking forward to sharing and/or receiving more 'enlightenment' with you, my dear friend.

So very touched, and I’m very happy to hear it. You must clearly distinguish my absolute position by now; eg. my reticence to observe certain portions of scripture, namely Yahweh inspired, and why. You also know your spiritual connection to God, via the Holy Ghost, is no more, no less, and no different than my own. And regardless of what personal mind-set we hold to, we are brothers nonetheless, united in love, light and friendship…

So with that I leave you, humbly, and with fondest wishes…

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)

WhiteCrowBlackDeer said it beautifully in this thread here: And I quote her:

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
My wish is for everyone to see the hidden likeness rather than the differences in us All. Sometimes the human element is lost when the one eclipses another’s idea with clever factoids and parallel talk.

This was my objective, kreagle. And I so wish it was yours…only then can we 'communicate with ease'. I aspire to cultivate a mutual understanding, to seek out those things that can bring us together, not cleave us apart – as doctrine would have us do. Yes we have wandered along some unexpected tangents in this thread, and I was always happy to ‘follow the flow’ of the conversation to wherever it would lead. And still am. But neither one us, I think – we both who have seen the Light – can say anything to ‘persuade’ the other that his path is unenlightened, or wrong. It is only in theoretical/metaphysical elements that we differ.

Thank you, Star Mariner. You made my day.
Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

You're very much welcome, and thank you again for your lovely words, and thoughtful insight...

Peace

[kreagle]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Star Mariner,

Thank you, so much, for your comments, thus far, on the topic,.....'Grace of God'.

Posted by kreagle (here)
Grace of God

The 'precious' Grace of God. What does that mean to you?,.....and is there a 'lesson to be learned from it?'
Thoughts,.....anyone?

I'm going to leave a 'preliminary verse' of Scripture for 'everyone' to view and to perhaps,......'ponder upon',....and I will follow up on tomorrow afternoon. In this particular Scripture we 'begin to see' the awesome magnitude of the 'Grace of God',....exactly what He is 'extending to us all',...and the 'lesson' I was referring to. I would like to invite as many, as possible, to contribute to this 'topic', as you may see fit.


Titus 2:11-15 (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.


This particular 'topic' is more vital than anyone can really imagine, for in it we begin to visualize the 'True Nature of God', and His desires and plans for His Creation,.....you and I.

Until later,.....your brother, friend, and servant,.........kreagle

In picking back up where I left off, concerning this monumental topic,.....'Grace of God', I would like to 'highlight' a few points that might would, otherwise, allude most casual observers.

The 'Grace of God' is, quite literally, the 'calling card of God', if you will, for it's with It that we find ourselves being 'beckoned' in ways that we never are fully cognizant of, sometimes. I'm not quite sure how 'internationally known' this particular statement, ( by Tom Bodett of Motel 6), is where he 'beckons' patrons to this hotel chain by warmly saying,......"we'll leave the light on for you!",....but I sincerely want to 'borrow this phrase', for that's exactly what the 'Grace of God' does for you and I,......'It leaves the light on for you!'

Let me explain.


With the 'Fall from Grace' that our ancient ancestors, ( Adam and Eve), experienced, mankind became the 'original Prodigal son' and consequently 'left our Father's House', ( the Utopian Garden of Eden). We've 'all' been on a much misaligned journey that has taken us, ( as the Prodigal), further and further away from our 'Father's House'. As with the scriptural account, ( in Luke 15:11-32), we find that the father had been 'keeping an eye out' for the return of his son,....he saw his son 'a great way off' in his return, and in his compassion,.... ran to him,.....grabbed him around his neck,.....and kissed him. You see, the father was always 'looking for his son' to return home,.......he was 'leaving the light on for him!'

Most assuredly, by the 'Grace of God', our Heavenly Father has been compassionately watching 'at a distance' for our imminent return Home, for He, by His Grace, has been,.....'leaving the light on for each one of us!', in eager anticipation for our return!

Furthermore, it should be equally noted that God's 'intricate planning' incorporated this wonderful concept of the 'Grace of God' with the introduction of John the Baptist prior to Him 'manifesting Himself in the flesh'. The 'name' John is derived from the Hebrew name (Yochanan), meaning YAHWEH is gracious. John the Baptist, with his message of 'repentance', was literally the 'Grace of God' being extended to 'all' of humanity, as a means of access back to Him. The 'voice in the wilderness' displayed vociferously by John the Baptist proclaimed this 'message of repentance',.....loud and clear,.....to 'all' who would hear. It was with this 'message of repentance', ( and Grace being consequently imparted), that John the Baptist was literally 'constructing a highway to our God', so that we might 'travel upon it' and make our way back to Him!

Isaiah 40:3 (KJV)

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.


Where would we be, were it not for the 'Grace of God?'


Your brother, friend, and servant,.......kreagle

[kreagle]

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)

WhiteCrowBlackDeer said it beautifully in this thread here: And I quote her:

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
My wish is for everyone to see the hidden likeness rather than the differences in us All. Sometimes the human element is lost when the one eclipses another’s idea with clever factoids and parallel talk.

This was my objective, kreagle. And I so wish it was yours…only then can we 'communicate with ease'. I aspire to cultivate a mutual understanding, to seek out those things that can bring us together, not cleave us apart – as doctrine would have us do. Yes we have wandered along some unexpected tangents in this thread, and I was always happy to ‘follow the flow’ of the conversation to wherever it would lead. And still am. But neither one us, I think – we both who have seen the Light – can say anything to ‘persuade’ the other that his path is unenlightened, or wrong. It is only in theoretical/metaphysical elements that we differ.

Thank you, Star Mariner. You made my day.
Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

WhiteCrowBlackDeer,

One thing is certain, and has been made 'abundantly clear' on this forum, you are a 'sweetheart', in every sense of the word, and 'if' you have said a 'cross word' to anyone, here,.....I have yet to see it, my dear sister.

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
My wish is for everyone to see the hidden likeness rather than the differences in us All. Sometimes the human element is lost when the one eclipses another’s idea with clever factoids and parallel talk.

Star Mariner,

I can 'fully agree and ascribe' to everything that you say, here,.....as long as it doesn't come at the expense of 'compromising one's faith/belief system'. Whoever actually said,....."if you don't stand for something,...you'll fall for anything", was really onto something, to which the Apostles themselves, evidently heavily adhered to, long before this 'saying' actually became famous.

As you appear to think that 'doctrine tears us apart',.....it was doctrine, ( the Apostles doctrine), that supplied the adhesive and 'held them, ( the 'early church'), together in the framework of the Gospel Message'.

Acts 2:42 (KJV)

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

and now notice, if you will, what the 'fruits of this bond' were, as recorded in verse 47,......

Acts 2:47 (KJV)

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


( a 'pause' to ponder, here,......)


You would be proud of me, Star Mariner, if you actually knew what I just did, in how I just 'deliberately erased' a thought and passage that 'would have been on point', but perhaps a little 'too much direct' and possibly divisive and inflammatory in context. I really, really, see your point, brother, and WhiteCrowBlackDeer's too,....and I am in complete agreement with the design and intent of your statements.

I think as we have endeavored to 'drive along' with this thread, ( as of late), that we have 'both' been guilty of attempting to 'grab the steering wheel and correct the course' as we have seen fit. Not only 'you and I', on this thread, but 'humanity in it's entirety', commits this same act of one side, or the other, grabbing the wheel when it is apparent to either one that the 'conversation is running off the road'. ( Remember my post on 'All Hands on Deck', and the example of 'one finger driving',.....versus,.....'both hands on the wheel?')
What I sincerely perceive to me 'driving with both hands on the wheel', ( by the Word of God), is no doubt in error to you, and many others, for your perception tells you that I am carelessly careening down the road with just a 'few fingers' on the wheel, ( for I have failed to broaden my horizons and concepts, as you have said).

Hence, this is the 'impasse' that I spoke of earlier.

I want you to know that I am open to any 'suggestions you, or others, might make' in regards to this 'reoccurring scenario',....as long as it doesn't involve compromising the 'Apostles doctrine', to which I rigidly adhere to.


Love and Peace,.....your brother,........kreagle

[RunningDeer]

Posted by kreagle (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

Posted by kreagle (here)

WhiteCrowBlackDeer said it beautifully in this thread here: And I quote her:

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
My wish is for everyone to see the hidden likeness rather than the differences in us All. Sometimes the human element is lost when the one eclipses another’s idea with clever factoids and parallel talk.

This was my objective, kreagle. And I so wish it was yours…only then can we 'communicate with ease'. I aspire to cultivate a mutual understanding, to seek out those things that can bring us together, not cleave us apart – as doctrine would have us do. Yes we have wandered along some unexpected tangents in this thread, and I was always happy to ‘follow the flow’ of the conversation to wherever it would lead. And still am. But neither one us, I think – we both who have seen the Light – can say anything to ‘persuade’ the other that his path is unenlightened, or wrong. It is only in theoretical/metaphysical elements that we differ.

Thank you, Star Mariner. You made my day.
Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

WhiteCrowBlackDeer,

One thing is certain, and has been made 'abundantly clear' on this forum, you are a 'sweetheart', in every sense of the word, and 'if' you have said a 'cross word' to anyone, here,.....I have yet to see it, my dear sister.

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
My wish is for everyone to see the hidden likeness rather than the differences in us All. Sometimes the human element is lost when the one eclipses another’s idea with clever factoids and parallel talk.

Star Mariner,

I can 'fully agree and ascribe' to everything that you say, here,.....as long as it doesn't come at the expense of 'compromising one's faith/belief system'. Whoever actually said,....."if you don't stand for something,...you'll fall for anything", was really onto something, to which the Apostles themselves, evidently heavily adhered to, long before this 'saying' actually became famous.

As you appear to think that 'doctrine tears us apart',.....it was doctrine, ( the Apostles doctrine), that supplied the adhesive and 'held them, ( the 'early church'), together in the framework of the Gospel Message'.

Acts 2:42 (KJV)

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

and now notice, if you will, what the 'fruits of this bond' were, as recorded in verse 47,......

Acts 2:47 (KJV)

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


( a 'pause' to ponder, here,......)


You would be proud of me, Star Mariner, if you actually knew what I just did, in how I just 'deliberately erased' a thought and passage that 'would have been on point', but perhaps a little 'too much direct' and possibly divisive and inflammatory in context. I really, really, see your point, brother, and WhiteCrowBlackDeer's too,....and I am in complete agreement with the design and intent of your statements.

I think as we have endeavored to 'drive along' with this thread, ( as of late), that we have 'both' been guilty of attempting to 'grab the steering wheel and correct the course' as we have seen fit. Not only 'you and I', on this thread, but 'humanity in it's entirety', commits this same act of one side, or the other, grabbing the wheel when it is apparent to either one that the 'conversation is running off the road'. ( Remember my post on 'All Hands on Deck', and the example of 'one finger driving',.....versus,.....'both hands on the wheel?')
What I sincerely perceive to me 'driving with both hands on the wheel', ( by the Word of God), is no doubt in error to you, and many others, for your perception tells you that I am carelessly careening down the road with just a 'few fingers' on the wheel, ( for I have failed to broaden my horizons and concepts, as you have said).

Hence, this is the 'impasse' that I spoke of earlier.

I want you to know that I am open to any 'suggestions you, or others, might make' in regards to this 'reoccurring scenario',....as long as it doesn't involve compromising the 'Apostles doctrine', to which I rigidly adhere to.


Love and Peace,.....your brother,........kreagle

Hello Kreagle,

My heart just expanded. I have you to thank for the assistance. There is a Heaven on Earth. And I see many here.

Non-stop miracles today. Do I even need to call them that? Not any more...

Peace and Love and Blessings,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[kreagle]

WhiteCrowBlackDeer,

Hello Kreagle,

My heart just expanded. I have you to thank for the assistance. There is a Heaven on Earth. And I see many here.

Non-stop miracles today. Do I even need to call them that? Not any more...

Peace and Love and Blessings,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

You are more than welcomed, my dear sister. Gentleness and goodness just seems to 'ooze from your personality' and your writings as you express them.


God bless you richly,.......your brother,.....kreagle

[kreagle]

Worship the King

Another 'beautiful song' for those who wish to 'listen and enjoy the scenery'. You'll also notice, in the video, the 'Twin Towers' in the background, that unfortunately 'no longer are!' This should make 'each one of us' to be even more 'thankful' and to 'Worship the King' for the things in life that we 'still do have!'

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GXZg26d0nBM

Hope you enjoy, ......and God bless you 'all',.........your brother, kreagle

[kreagle]

The Word of God

As per the request of Star Mariner, and the fact that this is an extremely important topic, I submit this subject for discussion and enlightenment. What exactly does the 'Word of God' mean to each of you,.....and how much, if any, does it play in your 'overall life', and the decisions you make? Let's give this some careful consideration and then express yourself, here, accordingly.


Your brother, friend, and servant,.........kreagle

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Star Mariner,
I can 'fully agree and ascribe' to everything that you say, here,.....as long as it doesn't come at the expense of 'compromising one's faith/belief system'. Whoever actually said,....."if you don't stand for something,...you'll fall for anything", was really onto something, to which the Apostles themselves, evidently heavily adhered to, long before this 'saying' actually became famous.

Awesome news, and wonderful to hear! And you should know that nothing I have ever read or encountered here, or anywhere else, has ever shaken my faith/belief structure. So you need not worry about that at all. And there’s nothing I have ever said that would claim that any part of the Bible was ‘made up’, or that it did not happen. Our only difference of opinion is purely the context in which the Bible is taken.

And that context, for me, takes nothing away… nothing away at all, from the Spirituality this is ultimately revealed, the Wisdom that is given, and all the glorious rewards of Heaven that are Promised.

Posted by kreagle (here)
As you appear to think that 'doctrine tears us apart',.....it was doctrine, ( the Apostles doctrine), that supplied the adhesive and 'held them, ( the 'early church'), together in the framework of the Gospel Message'.

Yes that is fairly said… although ‘tear us apart’ might be a little too severe. ‘Drive a wedge between’ is more accurate, and less fierce an image.

Also take into strong consideration the existence of ‘other gospels’ that, for political reasons, never made the final ‘cut’ in the Bible that reaches us today.

It’s interesting what you say about the ‘Apostles doctrine’ – the doctrines as supplied by the twelve apostles if I understand correctly. If so, I am in agreement. In that and the Gospel message! My former statement regarding the pitfalls of doctrine was in relation to holding a rigid and dogmatic interpretation of canon… that in effect would have one incorporate and reference the old Yahweh material from the OT as well. On that, you well know my thoughts by now lol. But of the gospels, absolutely my friend.

Posted by kreagle (here)
You would be proud of me, Star Mariner, if you actually knew what I just did, in how I just 'deliberately erased' a thought and passage that 'would have been on point', but perhaps a little 'too much direct' and possibly divisive and inflammatory in context. I really, really, see your point, brother, and WhiteCrowBlackDeer's too,....and I am in complete agreement with the design and intent of your statements.

Beautiful mate. That is the spirit of the idea in action. Only this way can human beings on this discordant, spiritually segregated planet earth come together and actually find peace, and discover that all we squabbled about for so long was meaningless anyway.

Posted by kreagle (here)
I think as we have endeavored to 'drive along' with this thread, ( as of late), that we have 'both' been guilty of attempting to 'grab the steering wheel and correct the course' as we have seen fit. Not only 'you and I', on this thread, but 'humanity in it's entirety', commits this same act of one side, or the other, grabbing the wheel when it is apparent to either one that the 'conversation is running off the road'.

Very shrewdly explained. You’re absolutely right. It is an amusing image when you look at it like that, almost like a Laurel and Hardy sketch – two of us sitting upfront, both jostling and vying for control of the wheel as we career along at breakneck speed. But perhaps, if we view this road as a Motorway (Freeway or Highway in your terms), we can see that there are multiple lanes – multiple trains of thought, which are not really that different to each other. And after all, no matter which one we travel along, all of them are pointing the same way.

Posted by kreagle (here)
What I sincerely perceive to me 'driving with both hands on the wheel', ( by the Word of God), is no doubt in error to you, and many others, for your perception tells you that I am carelessly careening down the road with just a 'few fingers' on the wheel, ( for I have failed to broaden my horizons and concepts, as you have said).

No, mate, not in error. That would be an undue and unfair judgement of one who only believes what he is doing is right, and in accordance with the path he walks. I never meant to say – or imply – that you are in error per se (and if I have I apologise). What I mean to convey is, that as you drive along a perfectly straight conduit of road, two hands tightly gripping the wheel, and two eyes dead ahead on the road before you, I ask only that you look up a little; to each side, and cast around at the world that passes by. There are many wonders to take in, many truths and yes many untruths to consider also, but the journey of discovery is worth every bit as much as the prospect of the destination.

All the very best…

[kreagle]

Deleted post - Picture for Topic keeps deleting itself

Sorry for any confusion!

[kreagle]

Posted by kreagle (here)
The Word of God

As per the request of Star Mariner, and the fact that this is an extremely important topic, I submit this subject for discussion and enlightenment. What exactly does the 'Word of God' mean to each of you,.....and how much, if any, does it play in your 'overall life', and the decisions you make? Let's give this some careful consideration and then express yourself, here, accordingly.


Your brother, friend, and servant,.........kreagle

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


This passage of Scripture in the Book of Hebrews candidly reveals why so many people have an overall problem with the 'Word of God', to begin with. For many the Word of God is invasive and literally 'trespasses on their territory', or 'gets up all in their grille,' so-to-speak. Quite frankly, this is 'exactly' the intent of God, for as we, His Creation, scurry about in our hectic lives, no doubt He has observed that it can be difficult, if not almost impossible, to 'get a Word in edgewise'. Hence we find the Surgeon, Himself, surgically employing His Word to divide between the 'carnal aspects of man', ( joints and marrow),.....and.....the 'spiritual aspects of man', ( soul and spirit).


This 'division' is vital and will occur, ( one way or the other), during the span of our lives. We all should completely understand that, one day, the 'flesh' will have reached it's limits and die, which will then cause a 'division' between the 'flesh and the spirit', causing them to 'go their separate ways!'


It's because of the 'Mercy and Grace' of our Loving God, that He has set His Word in action,....NOW......in an attempt to 'begin the separation process now',.....instead of waiting for that 'fateful day' when 'death comes knocking on our individual doors!'


While God, tries to do us 'all' a huge favor, ( with eternal consequences), by implementing His Word into the 'hidden crevices of our lives',....we find that a majority of people are 'offended' and 'reject such a notion'.


This, in reality, is 'just the first, of the many' designs for the 'Word of God' and His people.


Love and Peace,......kreagle

[kreagle]

I think Moses decision was right, 'here',.....



You can either 'use the Word of God' to 'block out the bickering of God's people',.....or.......you can 'choose to stone them with It!'

I thing he made the 'right choice!'

[kreagle]

Star Mariner,

Posted by kreagle (here)
While there are 'those' who would attempt to point out that 'these warnings of verses 18 and 19' only apply for the content of the Book of Revelation,....I will inform them that this warning is fully 'applicable for the entire Word of God'.


(your quote)
Before I actually answer, you bring up a point I’d like to explore. That is: ‘The Word of God’. You mention this often. What’s your definition of that by the way? It’s an interesting topic I think, which I’d like to discuss at some point in another post maybe… Perhaps you could make one (a la ‘The Grace of God’ post), and outline what your perspective is.

I'm trying to accommodate your request, brother,.....but it seems you have 'left the building'. Did you and Elvis 'hook up' and go somewhere?

Of course, it would be outstanding to 'hear from others', also! All 'views' on the 'Word of God' would be greatly appreciated.

Love and peace,......kreagle