Can a soul be captured?

[Tony]

The universe has two influences in it - enlightened and unenlightened. To know this we only have to be aware of our own minds at any moment, and ask the question, "Do "I" have a personal involvement or do 'i' have a personal involvement?"

"I" being an ego, which is our consciousness clinging to it's ideas result = uncontrolled emotions.
'i' being a mere i, just enough to function an communicate, result = emotions controlled.

Negative emotions attract negativity - the unenlightened.
Positive empathy attracts positivity - the enlightened.

Our creation ia always in our hands. Does this make sense:

Two pyramids - deception and perception.

The pyramid of deception deals with the past and future of people, places, events, and with not knowing.
The pyramid of perception deals with now, mind, awareness, purity, and knowing.

When the pyramid of deception is uncovered, it reveals more deception.
When the pyramid of perception is uncovered, it reveals more perception.

The pyramid of deception makes everything complex.
The pyramid of perception makes everything simple.

The pyramid of deception is controlled by psychologist magicians.
The pyramid of perception is controlled by you.

The pyramid of deception has no empathy.
The pyramid of perception has only empathy.

If you know you are in the pyramid of deception, then you are in the pyramid of perception.
If you think you are in the pyramid of perception, then you are in the pyramid of deception.

If you do not know which pyramid you are in, then by default, it will be the pyramid of deception.

Tricky isn't it?!

We probably constantly switch between the two pyramids.

All we have to do is be aware.

Inner awareness changes consciousness (the deception pyramid) into essence (the perception pyramid)
Consciousness can be infiltrate and misdirected, as it is built on concepts.
Essence cannot be infiltrated because there is no thing there: just pure awareness. And love.






No outside force can disturb true happiness/love, it is our very essence.
It's a cliche, but true, you only have to look.

There is no witch craft save the one you believe in.





Tony

[gripreaper]

A distinction needs to be made. Pure light, without any fractals, is the I AM presence, that which is one with all that is. It cannot be manipulated. Yet, once you descend and become part of the rainbow bridge, a fractal of light, these frequencies are open to manipulation.

Any part, when separate from the whole, is subject to the effects of the other parts, oscillating within the electromagnetic spectrum of all light. Your choice is whether you allow such manipulation, by having the stronger charge in the oscillation, or you succumb to the energies you are being bombarded with.

Energy not only is the amount, but the focus, inertia, emanation, and attraction. Lets be clear about this.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
Here we go again!

What is at the bottom of the rabbit hole? Just another dream! If you stuff your head with things you do not understand, this doesn't leave room for free will and intelligence.

“10. SOUL RETRIEVAL AND TRANSFERENCE :Taking souls from bodies and putting them into stasis and then into new bodies to serve the 'machine' of the secret state. Clones, androids etc. using Grey technology.”

This clearly shows the lack of understanding of the difference between consciousness and true being.

There are electrical impulses in the brain, these are created by the mind = consciousness via the senses. This is your 'normal' mechanical human being. Ordinary human beings who react to everything around them. They either accept everything around them or reject everything around them. They are easily led!

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

What can be controlled is the mind/consciousness, which is just a set of ideas...a mind set! Information goes in...and gets stuck there.
This is how people are controlled.

Come on people, stop being so easily led.


Tony

Yes, here we go again - while Tony, you seem to believe you have the Truth, many of us are still trying to find, or define our Truths and we do it by listening, researching, meditating and discussing. If this is bothersome to you, you can choose not to participate.

Kerry is good at connecting the dots. Some of us can read this material and not go into fear or focus on the fear. I see it as a good template of the history of how we got to this place, which for me helps me to understand how to get out of this place we find ourselves in the 3D world. Each must follow their own path to self-realization. If this is not your path, no need to harshly judge others.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
This is why the wise sage knows to notice an alien invasion with the same amount of alarm that he notices that he is almost out of milk. It's ok to notice it. Just don't feed it energy.

It's OK to feed it an appropriate level of energy ... to go out later in the day to get some more milk, or to quickly step aside from an incoming alien fired lightning bolt (or whatever sort of weapon they have .)

We live at multiple physical and spiritual levels at once. We are responsible for being aware in as many of these levels as we can and for living as fully as we can in each of these levels.

The chess master should not get so wrapped up in his game that he neglects to eat, or he'll starve to death ... and he can't play a good game of chess that way. But if he's frequently fussing over his grocery shopping list in his mind while deciding his next chess move, he won't do well at chess either.

These are not an Either-Or choices. Those (such as pie'n'eal, if I understand his words, and I might well not) who would proclaim that it is awareness only, and who would castigate us for also continuing to participate (as researchers, healers, fighters, ...) in the secular world of high crimes and misdemeanors are doing us a grave disservice. They present yet another (there are so many) false dichotomy. They distract us, as has happened on this thread, from the useful work that we can do here, researching, analyzing, sharing, and supporting each other in this secular world, amongst others.

The energetic insertion of false dichotomies into productive threads concerns me, both as a member, and especially as a moderator. Such dissipates some of the vital and valuable energy of this forum and its members.

P.S. -- I didn't notice until after writing the above that Bill had split the Camelot disclosure from Kerry thread. Good. I was considering the same split myself. .

[Maunagarjana]

It's all about levels of being, and what levels you're talking about. I used to think more like Tony, but after a lot of research into metaphysical stuff that the Buddha didn't get much involved with, I tend to see that a lot of what I would call "buddhist dogma" about the soul really only applies to the highest levels, as Bill pointed out. And that's fine. All the different wisdom traditions have important pieces of the puzzle, imho. Buddhism has made a lot of fine contributions to these sorts of conversations in getting people to not fixate just on the illusions of the lower levels. The soul or atman is multidimensional (for lack of a better word), and as you go up the levels, it becomes less and less conditioned and more and more integrated into....whatever you want to call it. The Source, Brahman, Dharmakaya, the Isness, whatever. It's just words.

[greybeard]

If you read spiritual geniuses like Ramana Maharshi, Nasargadatta --- -- Study "A course in Miracles"
if you spend just a little time with the recent non-duality teachers if you spend some time listening to Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, you will find a uniformity.

They are saying that you--the Self- existed before universes were formed and will exist after their dissolution-- In your essence you are eternal you are the Absolute you are Brahman. God you are.
That is their direct experience, that is their state, their awareness.
If you can believe this possible then you will find that it is possible to believe there is only One Soul.
The enlightened can truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
The Holographic Universe is now being spoken of and given some credibility.

Nasargadatta said--- find out where you were before you were born.
Ramana---Self enquiry is famous--Find the answer to the question "Who am I?"

One without a second has no enemies.
You in duality may well have seeming (enemies)to forgive and others to love.
"Love others as yourself "Jesus said--that is because they are yourself.
The Father and I are One--- so are you, One with the Father.
Not knowing this is the illusion--ignorance.
Maya is illusion the cosmic dance.
Non-duality--unity consciousness--Christ Consciousness, Enlightenment, goes beyond illusion.

[truthseekerdan]

Hello All,

Just passing by, and noticed this thread...
My question to everybody here is: Does the 'soul' really exist or is just another human mind concept? Remember -- everything is One Consciousness...

Much Love

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by greybeard (here)
If you read spiritual geniuses like Ramana Maharshi, Nasargadatta --- -- Study "A course in Miracles"
if you spend just a little time with the recent non-duality teachers if you spend some time listening to Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, you will find a uniformity.

They are saying that you--the Self- existed before universes were formed and will exist after their dissolution-- In your essence you are eternal you are the Absolute you are Brahman. God you are.
That is their direct experience, that is their state, their awareness.
If you can believe this possible then you will find that it is possible to believe there is only One Soul.
The enlightened can truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
The Holographic Universe is now being spoken of and given some credibility.

Nasargadatta said--- find out where you were before you were born.
Ramana---Self enquiry is famous--Find the answer to the question "Who am I?"

One without a second has no enemies.
You in duality may well have seeming (enemies)to forgive and others to love.
"Love others as yourself "Jesus said--that is because they are yourself.
The Father and I are One--- so are you, One with the Father.
Not knowing this is the illusion--ignorance.
Maya is illusion the cosmic dance.
Non-duality--unity consciousness--Christ Consciousness, Enlightenment, goes beyond illusion.

True, but that being so does not negate the experience of the lower levels. To borrow a phrase from Ken Wilber, the higher levels transcend but do not negate the lower ones. The All includes all. To focus only on the absolute and dismiss the experience of the relative leads people to missing some important things about this experience we are having now in this form of life, imho.

All of the levels are real (as real illusions) and have consequences in their own way. But it's just that they are not the whole picture. The physical body itself is an illusion, being temporary and not independently existing, but does that mean we should be unconcerned with the physical body being mistreated and imprisoned?

[greybeard]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
If you read spiritual geniuses like Ramana Maharshi, Nasargadatta --- -- Study "A course in Miracles"
if you spend just a little time with the recent non-duality teachers if you spend some time listening to Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, you will find a uniformity.

They are saying that you--the Self- existed before universes were formed and will exist after their dissolution-- In your essence you are eternal you are the Absolute you are Brahman. God you are.
That is their direct experience, that is their state, their awareness.
If you can believe this possible then you will find that it is possible to believe there is only One Soul.
The enlightened can truthfully say " I am the totality all of it"
The Holographic Universe is now being spoken of and given some credibility.

Nasargadatta said--- find out where you were before you were born.
Ramana---Self enquiry is famous--Find the answer to the question "Who am I?"

One without a second has no enemies.
You in duality may well have seeming (enemies)to forgive and others to love.
"Love others as yourself "Jesus said--that is because they are yourself.
The Father and I are One--- so are you, One with the Father.
Not knowing this is the illusion--ignorance.
Maya is illusion the cosmic dance.
Non-duality--unity consciousness--Christ Consciousness, Enlightenment, goes beyond illusion.

True, but that being so does not negate the experience of the lower levels. To borrow a phrase from Ken Wilber, the higher levels transcend but do not negate the lower ones. The All includes all. To focus only on the absolute and dismiss the experience of the relative leads people to missing some important things about this experience we are having now in this form of life.

Hi M

Nothing is negated--- hence the expression " I am the totality all of It"
The Self is form formless both and neither.
St Teresa of India when asked how she could work with the dying impoverished in Calcutta said.
" I see everyone as Christ in disguise"
Every enlightened sage brings compassion and love to the world.
Nothing is denied because the suffering is real to those suffering as is the release to those no longer in the state of duality.
The work of the Buddha was to endeavour to bring to an end the suffering.

Chris

[Maunagarjana]

Anyway, I'm done philosophizing. If it is indeed possible to capture some aspect of the spiritual body and manipulate it, that is troubling and also not very nice.

[truthseekerdan]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
Anyway, I'm done philosophizing. If it is indeed possible to capture some aspect of the spiritual body and manipulate it, that is troubling and also not very nice.

If one or a collective believes it -- everything is possible in a dream (illusion) state like this 3D reality.

[johnf]

I think there is a need to differentiate between the one without a second, or spirit, the body, and that which is arising in between. I find the soul to be a convient pointer to that, however, that is not me. The "soul" or whatever label works for you is the package of experiences, thoughts history etc that points to an existence of a separate self. Down through history souls have a tendency to be worshiped, and there are myriad beliefs about where they go after death. What is capable of looking at any part of this is real being, it seems space like but does not exist in space or time, and here was the kicker for me, cannot be separate or one!

That out of which, and within which everything else arises without any kind of identity.

I think anything that arises in this thing , can and will be elaborated on and comes with it the potential to be caught and manipulated. Even to the extent of the spiritual implants which Bill Refers to above, however even these loose their power if one has veiwed and let go the idea of a separate self and the possibility of it's survival.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

It is very troubling to find the mindset that anything that may trigger alarm or fear is "illusion", "fear porn", "maya" etc. It also smacks of a sort of spiritual arrogance as in "I am so enlightened that his 3 d existence has no power over my non-dualistic consciousness existing in the realms of pure awareness". C'mon! Most of us are still down here in the gutter, looking up at the stars (thank you Oscar Wilde). Talking about this or that is still duality and still part of this awareness. To try to dismiss the legitimate suffering and enslavement of honest people such as Duncan or Sarah S. is mean spirited.

Fear has it's place for most of us. I will feel fear and run from a threat in this time and space. The spiritual one up manship that dismisses people's legitimate concerns as they move along their path is just more ego.

[gripreaper]

Student: What shall I do to achieve enlightenment?

Master: Chop wood, carry water.

Student: What will I do once I have achieved enlightenment?

Master: Chop wood, carry water.

[bearcow]

The classical definition of a soul is synonymous with the astral being/body

In modern days the terms soul and spirit are used interchangeably by the uneducated.

This brings us to the question of a soul or true being. This is not a thing, it has no dimensions, it cannot even be said to 'exist' as we normally think of things...so it cannot be effected by anything. It is pure awareness.

a soul is not a true being or pure awareness, a spirit is

To use an analogy, the idea that the human mind is also the same thing as the human brain is employing the same type of faulty logic

Just as the mind does not have full control of the brain, the same goes for the spirit's control over the soul.

a human soul like a human brain, can be captured, contolled and even completely annihilated under certain circumstances

to my knowledge, a spirit cannot

Everyone in open society has a soul, as well as a spirit, however "your spirit" has very little to do with what people consider themselves to be as a individual.

[Flash]

Posted by The Royal Wizard (here)
I think Bill is right here, souls can be trapped, after all thats what we are here on earth; trapped. DNA is IMO not just physichs, DNA is spiritual computer programming, on earth manifesting as a body. The Matrix is not isolated to third density, it also includes the fourth density, a "place" where we have our light bodys, just a less dense version of our physichal body. This fourth density part of the Matrix is where many so called psychichs and channelers get their information. They think they see beyond the veil into the place where souls are free, but they are mistaken. All this control and manipulation Kerry (and many others) speak about includes, and many times, originates from the fourth density. These are clever guys; we die,, see the light, feel the love, and are in that regard very easily controlled, manipulated and once again incarnated into third density. If we want to leave the Matrix, which we can any chosen time, we need to access the fifth density, which is a density more in tune with our original essence. The trouble with this is that reaching our loved ones from the fifth density is almost impossible. Thats why we stay. As they say in the air force: never leave your wingmate. In this process we can easily be trapped; just in the way it is explained by Bill.

BTW there are many reasons why there are so many people here on earth these days; not all of them are true souls, and one soul can inhabit many bodies. And many are nothing more than generated computer programmes, just as in the movie; look out for the woman in red ;-)

all the best

TRW

I wonder how to differentiate, in every day life, the biological/chemincal/electrical robots versus the incarnated souls versus those that are linked to a none incarnated soul.

I saw a video once of someone who had died and came back, died of a cancer I think, and he decided once dead not to go in the light, but rather asked the light what it was, to bring him to the source, etc. He then decided to come back to share his experience. That was interesting because it was about a soul that is interacted with the light energies.

As the light revealed itself to me, I became aware that what I was really seeing was our Higher Self matrix. The only thing I can tell you is that it turned into a matrix, a mandala of human souls, and what I saw was that what we call our Higher Self in each of us is a matrix. It's also a conduit to the Source; each one of us comes directly, as a direct experience from the Source. We all have a Higher Self, or an oversoul part of our being. It revealed itself to me in its truest energy form. The only way I can really describe it is that the being of the Higher Self is more like a conduit. It did not look like that, but it is a direct connection to the Source that each and every one of us has. We are directly connected to the Source.

So the light was showing me the Higher Self matrix. And it became very clear to me that all the Higher Selves are connected as one being, all humans are connected as one being, we are actually the same being, different aspects of the same being. It was not committed to one particular religion. So that is what was being fed back to me. And I saw this mandala of human souls. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. I just went into it and, it was just overwhelming. It was like all the love you've every wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates.

As I asked the light to keep explaining, I understood what the Higher Self matrix is. We have a grid around the planet where all the Higher Selves are connected. This is like a great company, a next subtle level of energy around us, the spirit level, you might say.

Then, after a couple of minutes, I asked for more clarification. I really wanted to know what the universe is about, and I was ready to go at that time.

I said, "I am ready, take me."

Then the light turned into the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen: a mandala of human souls on this planet.

Now I came to this with my negative view of what has happened on the planet. So as I asked the light to keep clarifying for me, I saw in this magnificent mandala how beautiful we all are in our essence, our core. We are the most beautiful creations. The human soul, the human matrix that we all make together is absolutely fantastic, elegant, exotic, everything. I just cannot say enough about how it changed my opinion of human beings in that instant.

I said, "Oh, God, I did not know how beautiful we are."

At any level, high or low, in whatever shape you are in, you are the most beautiful creation, you are.

I was astonished to find that there was no evil in any soul.

I said, "How can this be?"

The answer was that no soul was inherently evil. The terrible things that happened to people might make them do evil things, but their souls were not evil. What all people seek, what sustains them, is love, the light told me. What distorts people is a lack of love.

The revelations coming from the light seemed to go on and on, then I asked the light, "Does this mean that humankind will be saved?"

Then, like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiraling lights, the Great Light spoke, saying, "Remember this and never forget; you save, redeem and heal yourself. You always have. You always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world."

In that instant I realized even more. I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED, and we saved ourselves because we were designed to self-correct like the rest of God's universe. This is what the second coming is about

http://near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

Same text, little further, very important in my opinion

In that instant I realized even more. I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED, and we saved ourselves because we were designed to self-correct like the rest of God's universe. This is what the second coming is about

[truth4me]

You know after reading the OP and replys connected with it.....well, let's say taking the red pill has a lot of side effects.

[Jake]

I was just reading in 'The Tao of Physics' about the Buddhist perspective regarding Brahman and Atman. The Unknown/divine and the mechanism where the Brahman 'attaches' to the soul, the Atman. Atman and Brahman,,, (Batman and Robin?) The essence of pure being is outside of our realm of understanding, at least from our physical/linear perspective. ie... Brahman. The ego/soul that manifests in THIS representative of reality (ie,, energy body, astral body, etheric body, etc...) has its attachment, also with the higher/highest self,,, ie,,, Atman.

This is not the ultimate expression of reality. True,,, but the ways in which we experience THIS reality, yes,,, the mechanisms that attach us to the divine (atman) can, and are manipulated and controlled. Incarnations are being controlled in different ways. Of course there is technology that deals with this, and of course it is in the hands of monsters.

Can a soul be captured? I need a better definition of 'soul'... essence, being, energy body, temporary physical/nonphysical state, consciousness... etc... I know from direct knowledge that the mechanisms of our physical and close-astral are constructs of self to the tune of 'creation and experience',,, and YES,,, they can and are manipulated in monstrous ways.

Feel free to correct me, if I have misstated the Buddhist perspective... I LOVE Batman and Robin...

[Kindred]

Can a soul be captured? I suppose it's possible. BUT... what do you do with it? Keep it in a Faraday cage forever... to what end? It takes energy to retain it. You cannot get energy from it... as soon as you try to extract any energy, it will go that way.. OUT. It's not like you can put it in a syringe, and inject it into that which you prefer. The physical vessel must be amendable and acceptable to the soul, and, moreover, the soul must accept the vessel.

Now, I have heard (George Green, I believe) that said that 'they' can take your brain waves and imprint them on another, such as a 'clone'... but,... it's Not You... only some thought patterns from your brain. The True You does Not reside in the brain. It is a hologram that is imparted by every cell of your body, and beyond it in the holographic energy field of The All That Is.

Again... all this talk of imprisoning a soul... Horse feathers! Nothing but Fear Porn.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Jake]

Posted by Kindred (here)
Can a soul be captured? I suppose it's possible. BUT... what do you do with it? Keep it in a Faraday cage forever... to what end? It takes energy to retain it. You cannot get energy from it... as soon as you try to extract any energy, it will go that way.. OUT. It's not like you can put it in a syringe, and inject it into that which you prefer. The physical vessel must be amendable and acceptable to the soul, and, moreover, the soul must accept the vessel.

Now, I have heard (George Green, I believe) that said that 'they' can take your brain waves and imprint them on another, such as a 'clone'... but,... it's Not You... only some thought patterns from your brain. The True You does Not reside in the brain. It is a hologram that is imparted by every cell of your body, and beyond it in the holographic energy field of The All That Is.

Again... all this talk of imprisoning a soul... Horse feathers! Nothing but Fear Porn.

In Unity, Peace and Love

My friend,,, our souls emit/create unthinkable amounts of energy. That would be the primary reason for capturing/enslaving an essence/experience.... to vampire the energy. What makes you think that you cannot get energy from a soul. Look here,,, https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...n-of-LOOSH----

Telling a small child to stay out of the road is not Fear Porn.

Ultimately, I believe that the whole of experience is about Creation and the Experience of that creation. In the byandby,,, much energy is created, and yes it is fed from...