Cannabis legislation / legalization

[confused]

The pros and cons of pot are a complicated issue. As a heavy pot user, I see both sides of the issue and I can not disagree with Paul on his assessment regarding the mellowing out of the population - although I don't yet agree either.

Pot has been a catalyst for my awakening for a long time, or so I believe. Perhaps I was on that path whether I ever smoked that first joint or not - I will never know. But I do know that when I smoke I am definitely more aware of myself and my relationships. It helps me to drop the filter that clouds my own perception of self so that I can better recognize those things I would like to change and start working on them.

Also, it gives me energy for exercise or at least removes that other voice in my head telling me I don't want to go for that run, or hit that bag, or whatever. In stark contrast to Paul, my math and science skills are just as good when I smoke as not. Physics, Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, these were brutal in college - I took them at Harvard and let me tell you those problem sets would take an entire week to finish from the day they were assigned to the day they were due. But smoking actually made me do better. My analytical mind is very receptive to the weed, so I think that is a subjective thing. And I finished those courses near the top of my class. On the other hand, I have trouble in reading comprehension and writing when I am stoned. Both skills come from the left brain, so who knows what is going on there.

What makes me most suspicious is the abundant availability in the US. Although members here keep referring to the illegal nature being evidence TPTB don't want it around, the problem is that it is actually everywhere. Only 10 years ago I was in high school, and it was easier to get pot than cigarettes or alcohol. It was everywhere, and almost everyone I knew was smoking it. It was the one common denominator between everyone I knew - from those living in the projects to those in their million dollar homes. In my generation it was how people hung out - in Europe they have the cafe culture where you sit with friends and smoke endless cigarettes sipping your coffee or cappuccino, but in the US it is weed. That is how we socialized in high school and caught up with friends. It was typically like "Yo what's up man? - Nothin much, just chillin. - Wanna meet up and smoke an 'el'? - Sure" and so it went on and on like that. And it wasn't just where I grew up in NY/NJ area - when I went to college most of the kids I met had a similar culture.

It is everywhere, at least in the Northeastern US, very abundant, and the fact that it is illegal doesn't mean it isn't actually distributed to the population by TPTB. Perhaps it serves two purposes, to dumb/mellow us down, and then if they want to take it one step further if we do get out of line then they can imprison us too. It is really quite clever. Perhaps they have somehow altered it over decades and decades of engineering to include components that were not originally in there - I am talking about the strains available for smoking in the general population. How would we know? We really wouldn't.

[RMorgan]

Posted by confused (here)
What makes me most suspicious is the abundant availability in the US. Although members here keep referring to the illegal nature being evidence TPTB don't want it around, the problem is that it is actually everywhere.

Hey mate,

This is literally the essence of this problem.

There´s no way to control the entrance of illegal drugs on a country as big as the USA and, in my case, Brazil.

That´s why all reasoning points to the decriminalization of drugs.

At least here in Brazil, millions of tax money is wasted with this pointless war on drugs. Rio, as an example, is basically a war zone.

By making drugs such as cannabis legal, all this money could be used in much more important things, such as public education and health.

Besides, by making it legal, we´ll be hitting drug dealers and criminals where it hurts more; their pockets. These folks will lose a lot of money and the police will be able to focus more efficiently on much more destructive drugs, such as crack and heroine.

I´m totally with Colorado and Washington in this once. Specially Colorado, where people will be allowed to have six plants in their homes.

Sooner or later the whole country will be following the example of these two states.

About MJ being considered a drug that transforms people into conformists, I think it´s BS. Literally, everyone I know who smokes it are much more awake and aware than those who don´t.

Cheers,

Raf.

[confused]

Raf, I do 100% agree with legalization. I am just not convinced that the strains available now are not in some way modified for nefarious purposes.

However, not being convinced does not mean that I do not at the moment, given the current information I have, agree with it being mostly positive. Right now, I still hold the belief that it is mostly beneficial in awakening people, but I am not 100% convinced there are no hidden negatives. I just have some doubts, but considering I am a huge stoner for well over a decade (ironic eh?), I tend to lean to your side.

[blufire]

Belle said:

That is not exactly my definition of living outside of the box or control...after reading your posts for a long time, it seems to me you've learned to function very well within the system, knowing how to use it for your (and your community's) benefit.

Perhaps I could clarify the point of what living or functioning inside/outside the box and being controlled by government entities. I am going to use the example of legalizing pot which is the topic of this thread.

To me if one has the expectation that the government has to legalize pot and give ‘permission’ for pot to be used freely and legally then that individual is still living solidly within the confines of the ‘box’ and therefore highly controlled.

Hemp is a plant and herb and grows naturally throughout North America. Like all other plants, as a medicinal herbalist, I use this herb when the medicinal constituent is needed . . . .I have even shredded the stem of hemp plants just to see what it is like and how to use the fibers.

I do not nor will I ever have the expectation or ‘controlled’ attitude that I have to wait for the government and/or authorities to give me permission to use natural elements.

So which frame of mind is living in a tightly controlled box?

And yes Belle . . . I am highly knowledgeable on how to function and use (when needed) the system we currently have in place and use it to the full advantage of the town and my family and friends.


I form much of my strategy when I have to work within the ‘system’ from the teachings and writings of Sun Tzu, The Art of War

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved

[blufire]

Another thought about pot and the smokers’ ability to function . . . . .

A week ago after Hurricane Sandy we got 14 inches of heavy wet snow and high winds and trees were brought down all over the area and we lost power over three counties.

Instead of waiting for the government (fema and county vdot) to send out help we formed our own crews to remove the debris. Two young men showed up to work on one of the crews fairly stoned . . . I had to make the judgment and call to send them home. They would have been a high risk to themselves and the rest of the crew . . . .we were using highly dangerous equipment . . .chain saws, chipper/shredders that can chew through 4 inch trees, and log splitters that can handle 30 inch trees. Their slow reaction time and mellow state was not a good fit in anyway.

As well as on the organic farm I had in Kansas. . . .stoned people and dangerous equipment was not a good fit. But, I did have the option there to give them less dangerous jobs, like weeding or sorting vegetables etc . . . .but I still was put in the position to have to make that judgment call.

So I speak from actual personal experience . . . . .

[RMorgan]

Posted by blufire (here)
Another thought about pot and the smokers’ ability to function . . . . .

A week ago after Hurricane Sandy we got 14 inches of heavy wet snow and high winds and trees were brought down all over the area and we lost power over three counties.

Instead of waiting for the government (fema and county vdot) to send out help we formed our own crews to remove the debris. Two young men showed up to work on one of the crews fairly stoned . . . I had to make the judgment and call to send them home. They would have been a high risk to themselves and the rest of the crew . . . .we were using highly dangerous equipment . . .chain saws, chipper/shredders that can chew through 4 inch trees, and log splitters that can handle 30 inch trees. Their slow reaction time and mellow state was not a good fit in anyway.

As well as on the organic farm I had in Kansas. . . .stoned people and dangerous equipment was not a good fit. But, I did have the option there to give them less dangerous jobs, like weeding or sorting vegetables etc . . . .but I still was put in the position to have to make that judgment call.

So I speak from actual personal experience . . . . .

I have to agree with that indeed.

I don´t recommend stoned people to operate heavy machinery at all. It is very dangerous.

Like everything else, MJ must be used with responsibility.

Excessive use is not recommended, except if you´re an artist; then you can smoke as much pot as you want.

Cheers,

Raf.

[TargeT]

Posted by blufire (here)
To me if one has the expectation that the government has to legalize pot and give ‘permission’ for pot to be used freely and legally then that individual is still living solidly within the confines of the ‘box’ and therefore highly controlled.

The only caveat I would think of there is that this is a STATE thing, NOT a federal thing (where nearly all of the control structure is) you see, the base of the pyramid actually has far less direct influence than the tip (and this continues proportionately throughout a hierarchical structure)

So a state thumbing their nose at the federal government is less questionable than the federal government doing something without it being forced to (which may happen, but I doubt it).

The states are not directly controlled like the federal government is, this is not how hierarchy works, the states are coerced, bribed and bulled into submission, they could actually stand up for themselves if they could get past the coercion, bribes & threats....


This is the main reason I have hope for a "grass roots" movement, it actually could happen...

Posted by RMorgan (here)
I have to agree with that indeed.

I don´t recommend stoned people to operate heavy machinery at all. It is very dangerous.

Like everything else, MJ must be used with responsibility.

Excessive use is not recommended, except if you´re an artist; then you can smoke as much pot as you want.

Cheers,

Raf.

That goes with everything that intoxicates, definitely.. there is a time and a place for everything..

I don't trust myself with anything more complex than a lawn mower or blender (and even then I make sure I'm paying attention) after a few beers.. haha

[Carmody]

All you have to do, is a governor, is to instruct your state troopers that they are to immediately swoop in on any federal forces that are attempting to enforce federal laws on state land. And to disarm said federal officers at gunpoint, if required,and to free any 'prisoners' they have taken. And then to place the federal officers into incarceration, awaiting hearings and or bail. And at the minimum, charge them with breach of the public trust, armed insurrection, destruction of private property and kidnapping.

The minimum charges would be of that nature.

Each federal officer involved should receive such charges levied against them, and be HELD pending trial/prosecution.

Any Federal officers who get away and take Colorado citizens off of state land, are to have arrest warrants issued for them, and have a bounty put out for their capture.

I can virtually guarantee you, that the feds would NOT comply and that a fully blown gun battle would ensue.

But that is exactly the sort of thing that it is going to take ----to bring this insanity to a close.

Enough funding of the CIA black ops projects and giving away free labourers to their prison companies and super cheap slave labour to military corporations.

As that is what is actually going on.

[Carmody]

There are federal employees and think tank groups made up of upper staff members and insider advisers (corporate types, 'security experts', wet work specialists and so on)... that are trying to find ways right now, to create horrific situations, murders and such, which they can make sure are laid at the feet of this new law.

Bet on it.

edit;

Please understand and that this colorado situation....is a direct and full frontal threat on a multi-trillion dollar machine, a machine that is full of hundreds of thousands of fanatical paranoid psychotics who really don't know or understand any better.

They WILL kill and they WILL be underhanded, in any way possible. Whatever it takes, nothings outside of the realm of possibility or decency. Nothing will be off limits.

Imagine, for example after much seeking for the weak points by their darker goups.... key Colorado employees of the state, found dead, looking like some bizarre murder scene with the body parts of young children and satanic literalture. And pounds of the problem: hydro weed in the house.

This sort of thing, all over the federal level news, for weeks. Attack after attack, of this nature, besides the continual infiltration of Colorado land and the arrest and incarceration of Colorado state citizens.

That is the likely outcome.

we are talking about a multi, multi-trillion dollar machine that is playing black ops, running the prisons, and being paid for it, running wars all over the world, and using free US prison labour to assemble the hardware, hardware made by companies who get sweet overpaid contracts, and use free prison labour....and on and on and on. And much worse.

You really think this sort of animal is going to just... roll over?

it's not just a couple of bags of weed, and some industrial hemp. It is a potent core level disturbance of that machine.

[modwiz]

Posted by Carmody (here)
There are federal employees and think thank groups made up of upper staff members and insider advisers (corporate types, 'security experts', wet work specialists and so on)... that are trying to find ways right now, to create horrific situations, murders and such, which they can make sure are laid at the feet of this new law.

Bet on it.

edit;

Please understand and that this colorado situation....is a direct and full frontal threat on a multi-trillion dollar machine, a machine that is full of hundreds of thousands of fanatical paranoid psychotics who really don't know or understand any better.

They WILL kill and they WILL be underhanded, in any way possible. Whatever it takes, nothings outside of the realm of possibility or decency. Nothing will be off limits.

Imagine, for example after much seeking for the weak points by their darker goups.... key Colorado employees of the state, found dead, looking like some bizarre murder scene with the body parts of young children and satanic literalture. And pounds of the problem: hydro weed in the house.

This sort of thing, all over the federal level news, for weeks. Attack after attack, of this nature, besides the continual infiltration of Colorado land and the arrest and incarceration of Colorado state citizens.

That is the likely outcome.

we are talking about a multi, multi-trillion dollar machine that is playing black ops, running the prisons, and being paid for it, running wars all over the world, and using free US prison labour to assemble the hardware, hardware made by companies who get sweet overpaid contracts, and use free prison labour....and on and on and on. And much worse.

You really think this sort of animal is going to just... roll over?

it's not just a couple of bags of weed, and some industrial hemp. It is a potent core level disturbance of that machine.

It is the industrial hemp that they really fear. They will count on ignorance to conflate hemp with pot and then allow any crime or murder they can, in any way possible connect with pot, to help squash the hemp legalization. If pot smokers want their dope to stay available, a mass instruction on the difference between to two crops might help. I say might because the average intelligence is quite unremarkable.

[TargeT]

Posted by Carmody (here)
There are federal employees and think thank groups made up of upper staff members and insider advisers (corporate types, 'security experts', wet work specialists and so on)... that are trying to find ways right now, to create horrific situations, murders and such, which they can make sure are laid at the feet of this new law.

Bet on it.

edit;

Please understand and that this colorado situation....is a direct and full frontal threat on a multi-trillion dollar machine, a machine that is full of hundreds of thousands of fanatical paranoid psychotics who really don't know or understand any better.

They WILL kill and they WILL be underhanded, in any way possible. Whatever it takes, nothings outside of the realm of possibility or decency. Nothing will be off limits......
It is a potent core level disturbance of that machine.

71 shots fired into an individual ( a father) SUSPECTED of being involved with Cannabis.. (he wasn't, there was nothing illegal in his house at all) with his family in the house, the 4yr old daughter is probably traumatized for life.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9LsxnRUNKuE

Don't take Carmody's post lightly, these individuals are not to be trusted, when they come to your door the chances of a fatality (yours) are V E R Y high; guilty or not.

[Humble Janitor]

Vermont may be one of the next to do so. It's gaining ground at least where I live as an initiative to legalize has passed.

[Dennis Leahy]

I suppose this article may be rattling sabers, but I don't think so. As TargeT said, States are coerced, funds withheld, etc. to bully States into federal compliance. It's all about compliance.

Source: Marijuana legalization victories could be short-lived

(Reuters) - Votes making Colorado and Washington the first U.S. states to legalize marijuana for recreational use could be short-lived victories for pot backers because the federal government will fight them, two former U.S. drug control officials said on Wednesday. They said the federal government could sue to block parts of the measures or send threatening letters to marijuana shops, followed up by street-level clampdowns similar to those targeting medical marijuana dispensaries the government suspects are fronts for drug traffickers.

Dennis

[ghostrider]

you know oil is gone, and the economy needs a boost, what better way than to introduce a never ending trading , investing, manufacturing product that has an endless market, and endless uses , the gov will regulate and tax and fee and license and gain lots of new money from this. All from the use of the sacred weed.... nice to see they finally catch up to the native americans after 230 years. slow pokes silly pale faces welcome to the party. Watch the money start rolling in , in those two states. the others will be jealous and make changes to get some of that cash.....

[Carmody]

One has to look at the timeline, who is involved, what went down, how it has played out, the whole flow of it, up to this day.

The Rockefeller drug laws of the 70's in NY state is where it all really took a turn for the worse, and went into high gear. Like a disease, it spread out from there.

That's when a plan to finance black ops with drug money (run other countries via the war and the drug running), to subjugate the US from the inside, to increase the prison populations (to provide cheap labour for military corporations and the like), and privatize them, to create a paranoid police state and so on, that is when this entire thing that is in the USA at this date...really geared up and came on line. It has to do with the fact that they seemingly...nearly lost control, in the late 60's. From that time forward, they started to gather and plan, and stay on it, to regain control, and they have not let up since.

To think that this giant war and domination machine will be 'taken down' by Colorado's public and government - is the deal, here.

The State of Colorado and State of Washington... are now squarely in the sights of this thing.

The folks in those two states are about to find out how much of a battle they are into. This will be a very dirty war.

Make all of it as public as possible, as it will get very underhanded.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Carmody (here)
To think that this giant war and domination machine will be 'taken down' by Colorado's public and government - is the deal, here.

The State of Colorado and State of Washington... are now squarely in the sights of this thing.

The folks in those two states are about to find out how much of a battle they are into. This will be a very dirty war.

The question in my mind is whether

• this is big guys (the Rockefellers and other such elite) vs little guy (a couple of states), or whether
• there are "big" guys on both sides, both warring and cooperating in a complex dance, or whether
• there are even bigger guys, behind both sides, moving and consolidating their various powers around the globe, manipulating peoples, nations and the elite families for larger purposes that span eons.

... or all of the above .

[GlassSteagallfan]

Here are some of the 'big guys'....

...George Soros's henchmen are crowing that the full-scale legalization of marijuana passed by voters in the states of Colorado and Washington, with the support of the Obama administration, sets the precedent needed to "pav[e] the way for the rest of the country and the world to follow."

... Drug Policy Alliance chief Ethan Nadelmann, took credit for drafting, financing, and organizing the initiatives which make those two states "the first political jurisdictions anywhere in the world to approve regulating, taxing and controlling marijuana similar to alcohol." ...

Part of a LaRouche article

[modwiz]

...George Soros's henchmen are crowing that the full-scale legalization of marijuana passed by voters in the states of Colorado and Washington, with the support of the Obama administration, sets the precedent needed to "pav[e] the way for the rest of the country and the world to follow."

George Soros, he eats the children of Conservatives. Do I have that correct? I guess his henchmen are cocks, since they are crowing.

Journalism, not written for literate grown-ups.

[Conchis]

It'll be interesting to see if the Federal government can get a conviction in a federal court of Colorado citizens following Colorado law. I would think this sets up a classic example of jury nullification in action.

[WhiteFeather]

Posted by blufire (here)

Posted by eaglespirit (here)

Posted by blufire (here)
Geez Louise People. . . . no wonder we go ppassively into what ever box ‘they’ have waiting for the bulk of the American population . . . . .

I thought this forum had some intelligent people . . . can you guys really not see what is going on with this ‘legalization’?

I am really really glad I live where I do . . . . far far away from ‘civilization’

ALL of the 'manipulation' plans, behind the scenes and blatant...are about to backfire in rapid-fire succession, imho!

eaglespirit . . . would you mind expanding a bit more on your comment? Do you think somehow the 'controllers' are going to loose control?

What we think we become, Consciousness changes Everything. As we are on a path to change it. The power of thought is priceless......