Next Friday every Friday, the combining thread

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by meat suit (here)
I enjoyed watching this..
so, is that alignment really happening?
moon, earth, sun, plejadies, sirius, centre of galaxy all in a line....

does anybody know?
thanx

meat

No, it's not. (Astronomical fact. Do check it out...!)

aww man, you mean we are going to survive? I just spent all my Christmas money on Beer... DOH!!!

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Carmody (here)
Time is not a fundamental, it is directly connected/related to particle charge value differential.

Could it be that time as measured by any physical process involving mass (however tiny) is relative, for example a cesium clock in one place may tick off time faster than one in another place, but that even to think such thoughts and say such things presumes an underlying more abstract conceptual time, against which all such physical processes can be compared? And if so, is there a physical locality to these non-uniformities in the "speed of time"?

The same might be said of Einstein saying gravity is the warping of space ... warping relative to what ... a conceptually abstract linear space?

(This is off topic - feel free to send me searching your past posts or to otherwise deflect or ignore this query. .)

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
but this does not negate the astrology or the energetic effects.

Well, the extent and nature of those energetic effects seems subject to some debate .

I have both feet rather firmly planted in the present 3D "seems real to me" physical world, so I'm biased that way. But from my view, the energetic effects are being substantially overplayed and/or misrepresented in much of what we read regarding 2012.

===

P.S. -- In other words, it seems (from the above) that Bill would say there are no such energetic effects that are of special interest for Dec 21, 2012, whereas I would say that there are no such effects that I've noticed (while admitting to be a bit thick skulled on such matters.)

Hi Paul, me thinks this is where Hollywood propaganda has grossly distorted this whole deal. A large part of that distortion is the extreme focus on this particular day, which is absurd. Whoever is going to feel the effects of this astrological event, (which is what I think may be the basis of David Icke's truth vibrations) will already have been "feeling" them for some time now. They will also be felt long after the 21st. There will be no difference on the 20th, from the 22nd, same as no one feels any different on the day before their birthday, than they do the day after. This is not a "lightning strike", to borrow from Carmody's post.

By the way Bill, I'm still talking to you too here brother. (LOL) Just singling Paul out for the quote. So let me see if I have this straight here. Because Hollywood, and the dancing around naked New Age movement have taken science, astronomy, and astrology, and turned this whole event into a freak show of disinformation, we're supposed to assume the whole lot is a load of steaming bullspit?

Most of us are not psychic, have not seen a reptilian, a worm hole, or a ghost, yet we do not disdain the ideas of these experiences, just because we have not had them ourselves. Now personally speaking, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt something is going on energetically, and so do a lot of others. A rapidly expanding field of consciousness is tough to ignore, whether the cause be individual, or something more general.

You know it's funny, because I'm not even a 2012 guy, yet I find myself here in the odd position of being it's defender, and possibly earning meself a 2012 stooge label. But I really do feel like I'm witnessing a very real, long term event, which is worthy of discussion here, being summarily dismissed based on what I think is an extremely effective disinformation campaign. We do have the baby/bathwater combination going here. Either that, or crazy old Uncle Freddie needs to be relegated to the channeling section.

Cheers,
Uncle Fred

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

By the way Bill, I'm still talking to you too here brother. (LOL) Just singling Paul out for the quote. So let me see if I have this straight here. Because Hollywood, and the dancing around naked New Age movement have taken science, astronomy, and astrology, and turned this whole event into a freak show of disinformation, we're supposed to assume the whole lot is a load of steaming bullspit?

In my personal opinion, and in a nutshell -- yes, I'm afraid so. It's all a conceptual acid trip, with equal substance and just as diverting from hard reality.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

By the way Bill, I'm still talking to you too here brother. (LOL) Just singling Paul out for the quote. So let me see if I have this straight here. Because Hollywood, and the dancing around naked New Age movement have taken science, astronomy, and astrology, and turned this whole event into a freak show of disinformation, we're supposed to assume the whole lot is a load of steaming bullspit?

In my personal opinion, and in a nutshell -- yes, I'm afraid so. It's all a conceptual acid trip, with equal substance and just as diverting from hard reality.

Then I shall respectfully withdraw from this conversation.

Cheers,
Fred

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

By the way Bill, I'm still talking to you too here brother. (LOL) Just singling Paul out for the quote. So let me see if I have this straight here. Because Hollywood, and the dancing around naked New Age movement have taken science, astronomy, and astrology, and turned this whole event into a freak show of disinformation, we're supposed to assume the whole lot is a load of steaming bullspit?

In my personal opinion, and in a nutshell -- yes, I'm afraid so. It's all a conceptual acid trip, with equal substance and just as diverting from hard reality.

A tad bit of a blunt and harsh way to put it for some, but I have to basically agree with ya. Many things are quite twisted, even right down to "saving money and creating jobs at Walmart"

I posted this on December 12th in another thread:

Re: what if the whole '2012' things are not *real* and just a mere wishful-thinking?

I sometimes wonder if this whole 12-21-2012 thing was thought up by a couple of dudes tripping on acid while they were fixated and starring at the Aztec calendar disc.....thinking it was Mayan

[sheddie]

Fred your input is very much appreciated ........ I enjoy your perspective and agree with it, not that my opinion is worth much except to myself

[araucaria]

There seem to be a number of strands to the disinformation going on here.
First, the alignment with the galactic centre. This happens every day, every year and every epoch. As mentioned by David Wilcock, a Dr Spottiswoode paper, a metanalysis of all the paranormal research done over a period of 20+ years, shows that psychic powers increases 4-fold at times of alignment with the galactic centre. This is slightly out of sync with the 24-hour earth day, and given different times at different venues, the basic data is so jumbled that the conclusion becomes that much more striking. The fact remains that this alignment with the galactic centre would remove the local effect, and the entire planet would have their psychic powers increased simultaneously, perhaps 4-fold multiplied by the 100th-monkey effect. The fact that most of the time is business as usual does not preclude the possible occurrence of special aha moments; we have all had them, and this could be a big one of those, if only because we are collectively focussing on it.

Second, regarding the crossbar of the cross, the alignment of several planets would appear to coincide more or less with the Carrington event of 1859 when the power grid as was went down. This is the basis for projected CMEs on Dec 21st. When astronomers talk like astrologers it means, as Carmody points out, that they are referring, perhaps without knowing it, to an electrical universe. However, catastrophe theorists like Patrick Geryl are ignoring the rest of the astrological chart, and even with regard to alignments, they are altogether disregarding the alignment with the galactic centre at right angles to it. Whatever this means, 2012 is not 1859.

Thirdly and finally, the intrusion of Sirius, the Pleiades etc. into this picture is truly disinformation or misinformation that contradicts the very notion of alignment. As we all know, disinformation is not just unhelpful per se, it is especially unhelpful in the way it debunks the genuine information that it hides behind.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
but this does not negate the astrology or the energetic effects.

Well, the extent and nature of those energetic effects seems subject to some debate .

And that is the debate. Science and Spirituality, which is where these two subjects are supposed to meet here at Avalon (See logo at top of page) is rooted in the oldest discipline on the planet, which is astrology.

Posted by Paul (here)
I have both feet rather firmly planted in the present 3D "seems real to me" physical world, so I'm biased that way.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
[In my personal opinion, and in a nutshell -- yes, I'm afraid so. It's all a conceptual acid trip, with equal substance and just as diverting from hard reality.

Speaking in general terms here, I get the point of the whole 2012 meme and the New Age Movement being instigated and propagated by the likes of Terrence McKenna and Jose Arguiles. I recognize the whole Esalen, Findhorn, social seminar circuit movement, the channeling movement, and all of the other permutations of which Bill speaks and is so adamant to point out.

I also recognize the need to remain grounded in 3D and face the hard issues each day which require us to be humane and interact with our fellow man in a humane and empathic way, but let’s be clear here about the deeper context being brushed aside in all the 2012 hoopla :

At its basic level, the universe is energy. All manifestation can be broken down to light particles, and the ability of these particles to coalesce based on their speed of oscillation and density. This “hard reality” of which you speak is malleable by the very thoughts we project into the matrix, and science is also malleable by the fact that the observer, just by observing, shifts the data.

So, I have a “hard time” sticking to the “hard reality” Newtonian Paradigm of the periodic chart of elements, and the basic combining of these elements and their properties based on heat or cooling. I’m more inclined, like the ancient Gnostics, to look at all things as energy, changeable, malleable, and influenced by the large masses of planets, by me (and the collective).

The Horus Ra thread discusses how the Archons manipulate energy to control the planet. The Wade Frazier thread discusses how to tap into the matrix and harness energy. Kimberly and we-R-one discuss how to be heart centered and focus energy towards a collective dream and a new paradigm based on individual power. Avalon is all about energy and how to preserve it, focus it, and emanate it towards an intentional manifestation.

All of the symbols and archetypes we have created, the etymology of language, are all based on the different frequencies of energy. The Gnostics were summarily eliminated from the planet through genocide because they taught the basic tenets of energetics, and the Archon’s know quite well the basic nature of the universe and how to manipulate it. This is what I mean by; don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Yes, the debate is all about energy, and astrology is the basic building block of the energy of the universe.

[Billy]

Hi everyone. Last year on the 2011 winter solstice i was in my friend Sunfeather's House. He dabbles in astrology. We decided to look ahead to see what the planetary positions would be on the 21st dec 2012. We were surprised to see no special alignments on that day. In fact the 2011 Dec 21st solstice had a much more interesting planetary positions than the 2012 Solstice.

I have been reading Wayne Herschel's site http://www.thehiddenrecords.com/gala...er-21-decemberand he mentions that there is an actual Mayan Prophecy concerning the days on and around 21st Dec 2012.

Quote:
GALACTIC ALIGNMENT DEC 2012 PROPHECY

The Maya never said it was a doomsday event or planetary alignment!

UPDATES! 15-12-12. This webpage will be updated almost daily saving best for last by adding more crucial breaking new material closer to 'Sol Invictus' to limit interference to the website server. See the new material added below.

Prophecy definition... the Maya prophecy for December 2012 especially should be taken merely as a general time marker. The Maya claim of a prophecy of a sighting of a UFO and messenger that follows below is probably not even going to occur on the exact day many think it is... or the week... or the month... or maybe within as long as a whole year. These prophecies are not written in stone and will come to pass especially when it is SAFE for a 'messenger' event to occur.

I am one who believes these prophecies are part of a vast almanac spanning many centuries, so it is very unlikely any prophecy will unfold on a precise date.

The image at the top of the page is the actual astronomy looking from the Earth on December 21st 2012 at sunrise at the Galactic alignment December 2012 (ref). Note there is no unique aligning of planets as many new age sites like to claim. There is also not much planetary alignment behind the Earth as well on the 21st. The most impressive alignment occurs 4 days later on Sol Invictus (see below).

In this first accurate 'full visual' graphic of the Galactic Alignment on the 21st December on the internet, the Sun is uniquely situated crossing the exact centre of our Galactic plane, and is quite impressive as a time marker for any ancient advanced civilisation like the Maya to reference prophecies or ages. Note... usage of the image is free on condition it is not altered and a ref to The Hidden Records web page is given.

Venus and Mercury on the right are to the side (not aligned) and between us and the Sun in Scorpio and on the other side of the Sun we have Mars and far far away very insignificantly we have Pluto in Sagittarius. This is no big cosmic deal, because the last few years and especially in 1998 the Sun was very close to this Galactic position. Sure it was not perfectly central but so close that if I rendered the image for it nobody would see the difference. Nothing cosmic happened then and with it being fractionally more perfect in alignment now, probably means on a cosmic level nothing is expected to happen this time either.

But here is what is special and what was missed:

The Maya have chosen this date as the end of Baktun 13... a cycle of time of an era ending and a new era beginning, but its importance is to present a valuable prophecy message of a time of Earth changes and the sighting of something in the sky and the arrival of a messenger.

The Maya probably knew of the Sun position at the Galactic centre crossing of which they often mentioned as crossing 'the black road' in the Milky Way (the dark part of the galaxy centre) but they never ever wrote or sketched a damn thing on the precise astronomy of the December 2012 Galactic crossing!

The full reference of this Maya Baktun 13 end of an era event with all specifics and facts as well as the galactic crossing astronomy and how many different cults have added their cult to it with what they believe...

THE REAL PROPHECY OF THE MAYA

There is a Maya prophecy written at the Maya site Tortuguero in Mexico dated around 1300 years ago and it speaks of the time of the end of Baktun 13 4 Ajaw 3 K'ank'in precisely the date scholars suggest falls on December 21st 2012. It claims something very important occurs... something probably seen in the sky. Here is the prophecy:

It will be completed
on the 13th b'ak'tun. (end of 2012)
It is 4 Ajaw 3 K'ank'in (21 Dec)
and it will happen a 'sighting' (something in the sky)
It is the display of B'olon-Yokte' (Tree of Life Deity)
in a great ceremonial founding of authority

For the reference source of this prophecy:

Please read full article here. http://www.thehiddenrecords.com/gala...er-21-december

Peace

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
And that is the debate. Science and Spirituality, which is where these two subjects are supposed to meet here at Avalon (See logo at top of page)

Thanks, Grip, for your excellent post (and there are many other excellent posts on this thread: all should be read carefully).

Just grabbing the talking stick here for just a moment to clarify -- especially to any new members reading this -- that I am very far indeed from being any kind of hardcore materialist.

For the umpteenth time to some reading this, I've seen an ET physically materialize in my room when I was wide awake, I very regularly experience psychic abilities in myself and others, and am under no illusion that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose (the famous quote from the great evolutionary biologist J B S Haldane). I suspect that the Truth is very strange indeed.

My point is that compared with that Truth, the variously prevalent New Age myths are extremely simplistic and are almost all based on wishful thinking... a dangerous habit when all our liberties, freedoms, consciousness, bodies and Planet Earth itself are all under attack from demonic agendas -- and this is the reality.

The Archons (and they certainly exist, whatever one would name them) are having a field day at all the naivete -- which disables many otherwise potentially very able people.

We're taking ourselves out via our own weaknesses. Ultimately, it's all about the necessary courage to confront the way things really are.

I look forward to the next Hitler parody when he is told, on 22 December, that nothing whatsoever of note happened the previous day.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
For the umpteenth time to some reading this, I've seen an ET physically materialize in my room when I was wide awake, I very regularly experience psychic abilities in myself and others, and am under no illusion that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose (the famous quote from the great evolutionary biologist J B S Haldane). I suspect that the Truth is very strange indeed.

Thanks for the clarification Bill. Time for intermission:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=x-NXwRUQcmg

[Ernie Nemeth]

Something most definitely will happen that day, the 21st of December 2012.

I, for one, will never believe anything again. Either I will know, or I will have no opinion about anything. This has been permeating through my entire being this year. So many of my cherished illusions have fallen by the wayside. I have lost my favorite belief these last few months. I no longer believe in God. Not as any type of Being ever portrayed by any religion, at least. The idea of God has lost all its appeal and most of its palliative effect, for me. I have not believed a word uttered by the media since I was old enough to know better. Politicians too. Science and scientific facts took longer to shun as the logic seemed so compelling until it became clear that there were vested interests far more concerned with tenures and grants than the truth. And now the spiritual has been attacked with such force that even that bulwark of a foundation for a life of meaning is now shaken.

I have no meaning left to cling too. I now live a meaningless life. Maybe now I can let go of trying to figure out my purpose and just be happy living day to day. A tall order for me, but I will perservere.

Good luck to all on that fateful day and beyond.

I hope you naysayers are right.

[Mark]

I feel you, Ernie. Strangely enough, our friends Tony, Bob, Carmody, Jenci, Greybeard, Sirdipswitch and others have been making this same point for quite a long time now, as have many others that those of us who've been around a while can attest to.

Moderation. Don't go to extremes of either disbelief or belief. Live in the Now, achieve equanimity by being measured in all of our thoughts, words and actions.

I have to agree that in-depth study of the New Age and the times can leave one in a space of permanent suspicion, as there are so many agendas, so little known for certain, so many questions, so few direct answers. I think this is actually a good place to be, as long as one does not fall prey to despair and depression as a result, going too far in the opposite direction as a result of being disappointed by the non-occurrence of so much that seemed so wonderful and beautiful and transformative.

Expecting a savior in the form of a comet, a gigantic planet, dieties or aliens returning to earth, or leaving this reality altogether is a panacea sometimes that it seems folks use in order to get around doing their own internal and personal work.

For those who follow the path of personal transformation I know it has often been quite interesting to listen to groups and people espousing certain beliefs that put all of the effort on other entities and forms of consciousness, that all they have to do is believe and everything will be more than alright, it will be perfect. Without them having to change a thing about themselves. Having to go through the dark night of the soul to recognize their own shortcomings and deviations from the energetically-conservative mean of lived moral consciousness and then doing something about it, moving to control the mental processes, emotions, words and actions, living an evolved life instead of just thinking about it or spouting the words as if that were the same as being what you are talking about.

Perhaps I can suggest that your life is not meaningless. Instead, you have found the meaning that underlies all that people think of as being important and found that it is beyond the concerns and definitions of convention. That meaning itself is a palliative, as you put it, and the Truth lies somewhere beyond.

[Freed Fox]

Ernie, I'm sorry to hear that you have been disheartened as of late. The worst part of it is, I know that there is nothing I can say to persuade you that yes, life does have meaning, or that truth will ultimately prevail over any deception. It does not seem this way to us because there is just so much deception now. And no matter how much I believe in something, I cannot transfer such a belief onto anyone else. Even though we can be in touch, and share with one another our experiences and beliefs, we are bound to our own individual paths through this life.

Personally, I never believed anything catastrophic would happen on the 21st. I maintain a hopeful enthusiasm around the idea that something quite good might happen, even if that good is fabricated out of our projected beliefs and energy toward that date.

[jagman]

I was wondering if anyone could confirm what was stated in the video about the decay rates of nuclear particles are speeding up? I think the guy in the video stated that a study was done at Prudue University.

[greybeard]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Something most definitely will happen that day, the 21st of December 2012.

I, for one, will never believe anything again. Either I will know, or I will have no opinion about anything. This has been permeating through my entire being this year. So many of my cherished illusions have fallen by the wayside. I have lost my favorite belief these last few months. I no longer believe in God. Not as any type of Being ever portrayed by any religion, at least. The idea of God has lost all its appeal and most of its palliative effect, for me. I have not believed a word uttered by the media since I was old enough to know better. Politicians too. Science and scientific facts took longer to shun as the logic seemed so compelling until it became clear that there were vested interests far more concerned with tenures and grants than the truth. And now the spiritual has been attacked with such force that even that bulwark of a foundation for a life of meaning is now shaken.

I have no meaning left to cling too. I now live a meaningless life. Maybe now I can let go of trying to figure out my purpose and just be happy living day to day. A tall order for me, but I will perservere.

Good luck to all on that fateful day and beyond.

I hope you naysayers are right.

Ernie my friend---when all has gone what is left?
That which has always been there and always will be ----present---awareness--- namely your SELF.
Agreed that when all is departing--all the beliefs-- all that seems to give us identity--- it is very flat and uncomfortable.
I know because I am there.
I also know from what I have read that this is a transition stage and SELF will emerge--free at last of illusion.

So be of good heart.
With love
Chris

PS there is a stage which Ramesh Balsekar describes as flip-flop.
So one moment there is clear seeing that there is SELF and undivided state--one without a second--then it reverts to egoic consciousness and there is a sense of flatness--there is the sense--this is not it--the truth has been glimpsed or sensed.
Eventually it will settle down in unity consciousness or whatever you care to call it.

[Mark]

Posted by jagman (here)
I was wondering if anyone could confirm what was stated in the video about the decay rates of nuclear particles are speeding up? I think the guy in the video stated that a study was done at Prudue University.

Hi Jag, that part of the video was David Sereda. He seems to be tied into the science in a direct way, he does a lot of primary research himself and makes jewelry that is energetically charged. I don't know if it is true or not, but Sereda's work is also interesting. Here is the most recent vid of his I could find, posted 2 Dec. I haven't watched the whole thing yet but I expect he'll mention the decay rates again, as it is one of the most important parts of his thesis about what is going on:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GDr64MFFebE

Oh, Carmody, thank you for adding the electrical universe stuff, that's a theory that I also find viable, and I concur with all you said and say regarding astrology as well. The OP video actually talks about the Photon Belt as a vertical wheel/donut of energy that spans above and below the galactic plane and that we are entering. From my research, and as Paul posted earlier, we are actually 50-70LY above the galactic plane now, according to scientific sources who think they know. The intriguing aspect of it is that the presenter equates the connection of memory to magnetics, stating that as Sol-system enters this region of space - coupled with its arrival at some fateful point in the Dark Rift region of the Milky Way galaxy - the Earth's magnetic field will stop and reset itself. This loss of magnetics could result in a world-wide amnesia, and/or the expected "spark" received from some energy source (alcyone, sirius, central suns) that super-charges the sun and affects consciousness here on earth. He also states that the earth will stop as well (for 3 days, of course) and change direction, with half the world experiencing extended light, the other half, extended darkness. Or, if that doesn't happen, then the universe will contract.

Very entertaining stuff with enough alternative science included to make it interesting.

[gripreaper]

This is the epitome of the 2012 meme in all it's...well proclivities? It has all the buzzwords. Come on, laugh with me. It's only 8 minutes you can never get back!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=aC4ou2Jqjd8

I am going to have fun with this on December 22nd. I love humor!

[greybeard]

Frankly no one knows what the future hold but certainly there are cyclic events---not necessarily the same but similar.
So having looked at scientific and spiritual information my feeling is that something on going is happening.
In an earlier video David Sereda has said he would be very surprised if noting happens--regarding energy which is seemingly coming from the centre of the universe, we are moving into an area where we could be affected.
Assuming this energy is a reality then some scientist say this could change our DNA-- jump us into the next species of human being.
I can but hope.
There is a lot of evidence to support this hope and there is a lot of contra evidence.
So all I can be is open minded with hope being on the side of something positive happening, though not necessarily on the one day, therefore the 21st can come and go with nothing happening without me loosing hope.

Chris