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    United States Avalon Member kreagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    'Wise Men', ( and Women),......Still Seek The Lord!!!





    Quote Matthew 1:20-23 (KJV)

    20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    The 'Reason for the Season',.....'Merry Christmas to all!',.......kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  3. Link to Post #382
    United States Avalon Member kreagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    'Hunkered Down',.......or.......Calm and Secured?





    Quote 1 John 4:18 (KJV)

    18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.


    Quote Romans 8:31
    King James Version (KJV)

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

  4. Link to Post #383
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    You still with us Kreagle?
    hehehehe
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    I do understand, Kreagle, so here goes:

    From the first video: 39 mins 54 secs to 50 mins 55 secs - details the Charismatic Renewal Movement: it's Vatican 2 origins and ethos

    From the second video: 8 mins 26 secs to 55 mins 55 secs - details the ethos of Nicky Gumbel's Alpha course, Willow Creek Church and Saddleback Church and the infiltration of Jesuit doctrine

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    I do understand, Kreagle, so here goes:

    From the first video: 39 mins 54 secs to 50 mins 55 secs - details the Charismatic Renewal Movement: it's Vatican 2 origins and ethos

    From the second video: 8 mins 26 secs to 55 mins 55 secs - details the ethos of Nicky Gumbel's Alpha course, Willow Creek Church and Saddleback Church and the infiltration of Jesuit doctrine
    Akasha,

    Thanks for your assistance on 'editing' the video for viewing, brother. It should be noted that 'trying to gather meaningful, ( and correct), information concerning the phenomena of being Biblically Spirit-filled',....( using Catholic-based material),.....is the equivalent to 'going to an abortion clinic for a pro-life seminar.' As I've stated before, their many 'manipulations of Scripture' and straying from the 'original doctrines of the Church, at Pentecost,' renders them totally unreliable to those who are endeavoring to embark on the journey to Truth. While Seventh Day Adventist, W. Veith, might be right on questioning, ( and debunking), the Catholics teachings on this, he is hardly using accurate, ( and reliable), documentation.

    I will have to admit, Akasha, that the 'mannerisms and method of delivery' used by W. Veith remind me, very much, of a young man I worked with several years ago. 'Travis' was a good man, but very dogmatic in his personal beliefs,...to the point of completely rejecting any provable documentation, ( especially Scriptures), that you might lay before him. He even went so far as to proudly display a 'wooden plaque' on his desk which read,......"Don't Confuse Me With The Facts, My Minds Already Made Up!" There are more 'Travis's' in this world than you might think, Akasha.

    The only reason I bring up 'Travis', ( in comparison to W. Veith), is because in order for us humans to 'advance to the next stage of Divine knowledge in God, and to be recipients of His Spirit and many blessings' is that one has to 'want to believe' to begin with! If you, ( or anyone else), doesn't 'want to believe',.....then you 'won't!',.....it's just as simple as that! The prerequisite for 'believing, ( and receiving), from God',......still requires 'faith',....and always will!

    Quote Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    If the 'same exhaustive efforts' expended trying to disprove God's Spiritual, ( and operational movement), by W. Veith, ( and others), were instead redirected towards 'simply believing the Written Word of God',....the results would be entirely different and much more rewarding.

    The 'many Scriptural accounts of being Spiritually-filled with the Holy Ghost',.... 1)- 3,120 souls on Day of Pentecost ( Acts 2: 1-42),......2)- City of Samaria ( Acts 8: 5-17),......3)- Cornelius and his household ( Acts 10: 1-48),.......and 4)- the 12 disciples of John the Baptist ( Acts 19: 1-7),.......are uniform and 'scripturally prove' that the 'infilling of the Holy Ghost' was always accompanied by 'speaking in other tongues' as the Spirit was being imparted to the new believer. These 'passages' have always been 'problematic' to non-believers such as W. Veith, ( and others), who continuously attempt to disprove, ( and deny), their validity.

    Remember the prophetic words of Isaiah,......
    Quote Isaiah 28:11-12 (KJV)

    11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

    12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
    Also,....remember the prophetic words of Jesus, Himself,......
    Quote Mark 16:17 (KJV)

    17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    Akasha, it's up to 'us' to exercise, ( and implement), our 'faith' in order for these 'prophetic words of prophecy to come true,...or not.'

    We can either 'spend our time believing and receiving',....or.....'disproving and denying'.

    I choose the 'former',....my dear friend.



    panopticon,

    Quote You still with us Kreagle?
    hehehehe
    As you can see,....I'm still here, brother. The 'silly superstitions and fears of mankind' will not dictate the 'exit plans', ( ie. 'rapture'), of God, for His Children.


    God Bless,.......your brother, friend, and servant,......kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  9. Link to Post #386
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Dear Kreagle, I was hoping you might address the Vatican 2 origins of the modern day charismatic/pentecostal movement of which I assume you are a member based on your views on speaking in tongues. I was also hoping you might comment on the ecumenism based alliance between people like Gumbel and the pope.
    Last edited by Akasha; 22nd December 2012 at 21:24.

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    Dear Kreagle, I was hoping you might address the Vatican 2 origins of the modern day charismatic/pentecostal movement of which I assume you are a member based on your views on speaking in tongues. I was also hoping you might comment on the ecumenism based alliance between people like Gumbel and the pope.
    Akasha,

    I see that you have 'significantly modified' your original response to me, which I read earlier in the day. I will 'briefly' address the two points you have highlighted here.

    Quote origins of the modern day charismatic/pentecostal movement
    The 'origins' of this movement developed solely on the Day of Pentecost, as defined and recorded in the Book of Acts, chapter 2. This time in history was approximately 30 A.D. It would be 'incorrect' to claim that I have 'joined', ( as a member), this movement. You don't 'join this movement',.....but you are 'born into It', when you obey the Gospel Message of Acts 2:38, as preached by the Apostle Peter.

    The Vatican, ( early Catholicism), began to form itself around the early 300's A.D. The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity", ( Catholicism), the official religion of the Roman Empire. The First Council of Nicaea, 325 A.D., systematically began the Catholic onslaught of 'revising and altering' the texts to accommodate their new dogma of a 'trinity' concerning the Godhead. ( It should be noted, ( in fairness), that the Catholic Church 'claims' to have come into existence in 33 A.D., and to also lay 'claim on being spirit-filled/speaking in tongues', themselves. These 'claims' cannot be factually substantiated, for the many 'dates', ( and occurrences), of history prove otherwise.)

    Quote I was also hoping you might comment on the ecumenism based alliance between people like Gumbel and the pope
    The 'Ecumenical Movement' , ( Catholic in design), has always been intended to establish a 'one world church'. At the first Ecumenical Assembly held in Amsterdam in 1948, the motto 'ONE WORLD -- ONE CHURCH' was adopted. While the 'concept behind this' might appear to be in harmony with the original intentions of the early Church, ( and teachings of the Apostles), the......design,.....teachings,.....and ultimate goal of this proposed 'organization' are entirely different. 'If' successful, the ultimate goal is to establish the 'Pope as it's Head of the Super Church'.

    We have seen TPTB efforts to establish a 'One World Government',.....and this proposed 'One World Church', ( via the Ecumenical Movement), is just more of the 'same.' They are 'joined at the hip', ( so-to-speak),with just as much evil intentions and designs.

    This should complete my efforts in stating my feelings, and/or reasons, to your questions on your videos, Akasha. I still have not, specifically, heard yours,....( after 3 requests to you regarding this.)


    Respectfully,......your brother,....kreagle
    Last edited by kreagle; 23rd December 2012 at 07:50. Reason: clarification
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    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

  11. Link to Post #388
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Thanks for that Kreagle. I'm encouraged by your answers this time, especially regarding your awareness of ecumenism. It's clear from your comments that you aren't about to go headlong into the arms of "Pappa" under the guise of inter-denominational unity: something I suspect the members of the evangelical super churches are being lined up for.

    With regard to your comments about the pentecostal movement, of course I accept it had its origins (obviously) at Pentecost. I just wonder if this "speaking in tongues (non-sensical rather than foreign/unknown to the orator in question)" was aggressively re-introduced as a Vatican 2 initiative via the CRM (charismatic renewal movement).

    The following text from "Beggars All: Reformation and Apologetics" offers some insight into the perspective of the Pope's ultimate nemesis - Martin Luther:

    Quote A few months back I looked at Pentecostals trying to claim Luther spoke in tongues. Recently I came across an excellent overview of Luther’s interpretation of “speaking in tongues” in the book The Charismatic Movement (Grand Rapids: W.B. Eerdmans Publishing company, 1975).

    “Luther did not have direct contact with the more unusual gifts of the Spirit catalogued by Paul in I Corinthians 12, notably glossolalia, interpretation thereof, and healing. However, as an exegete and preacher using the lectionary, he occasionally had to advert to our charismatic passages. He was also familiar with the Zwickau Prophets, who derived something of their charism from the Hussite tradition.

    Luther believed that in apostolic times, people had spoken "new tongues" as a sign and "witness to the Jews." In his own day, however, Christianity no longer required the confirmation of such signs. Although they had ceased, each justified believer might expect to receive one or several other gifts of the Holy Spirit. There would always be a diversity of gifts in the true church, and these would operate in harmony, whereas among "fanatical spirits and sectarians," everyone "want[ed] to be everything."

    Luther's clearest exposition of the meaning of the Corinthian texts for his day was in a treatise he published in 1525 against Andreas Bodenstein von Carlstadt. Drawing on Paul's first letter of advice to the troubled Corinthian church, Luther accused Carlstadt of misunderstanding the expression "speaking with tongues. Paul, he declared, had been concerned primarily with the office of preaching and the listening and learning of the congregation. With this as his premise, he used the passage on tongues to develop his case for preaching in the vernacular:

    ‘Whoever comes forward, and wants to read, teach, or preach, and yet speaks with tongues, that is, speaks Latin instead of German, or some unknown language, he is to be silent and preach to himself alone. For no one can hear it or understand it, and no one can get any benefit from it. Or if he should speak with tongues, he ought, in addition, to put what he says into German, or interpret it in one way or another, so that the congregation may understand it.’

    Carlstadt had used Paul's directives to the Corinthians to prove that all speaking in tongues (i.e., preaching in Latin) was wrong. Luther, on the other hand, demanded only that the "tongues" be interpreted into the appropriate vernacular, and used Paul's writings to defend his position: "St. Paul is not as stubborn in forbidding speaking with tongues as this 'sin-spirit' [Carlstadt] is, but says it is not to be forbidden when along with it interpretation takes place."
    Whilst growing up in the evangelical/charismatic movement I witnessed every week during the service folk speaking in clearly non-sensical language closely followed by an "interpretation" by another member of the congregation. Even as a believer I found this dubious at best since there was clearly no logical or phonetic correlation between tongue and "translation". It often became comical when the tongues would go on for a (self-indulgent) aeon and then the "interpretation would be over in seconds. It seemed clear to me, even then, that the interpreter was just saying what they wanted to say but who could tangibly argue with them?

    Well, As you know in 1 John 4.1 we are prompted to test the spirits and in testing those spirits, even as a youth, they failed.....but succeeded in making a mockery of God? Maybe.
    Last edited by Akasha; 23rd December 2012 at 18:10.

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    Whilst growing up in the evangelical/charismatic movement I witnessed every week during the service folk speaking in clearly non-sensical language closely followed by an "interpretation" by another member of the congregation. Even as a believer I found this dubious at best since there was clearly no logical or phonetic correlation between tongue and "translation". It often became comical when the tongues would go on for a (self-indulgent) aeon and then the "interpretation would be over in seconds. It seemed clear to me, even then, that the interpreter was just saying what they wanted to say but who could tangibly argue with them?

    Well, As you know in 1 John 4.1 we are prompted to test the spirits and in testing those spirits, even as a youth, they failed.....but succeeded in making a mockery of God? Maybe.
    Akasha,

    I can only 'imagine' the many evangelical/charismatic events you have briefly described in growing up, ( and being exposed to). 'If', as you say, you 'witnessed every week' the 'charismatic display of speaking in tongues', ( along with an interpretation), then you definitely were being exposed to something that was 'excessive' and taken out of context for the specific designs, ( and direction), of the Church. This is precisely what Paul addressed to the Corinthian Church,...the growing misuse of God's Gift in the Church. Further studies on this should reveal to the open-minded student of His Word that Paul was pointing out that this 'Gift' indeed had It's place in the Church, ( when the time was appropriate), and at no time did he proclaim to 'eliminate' this 'Gift', altogether from further usage.


    The term, 'charismatic', has always been problematic, ( and troublesome), to me for it's very nature reveals the problem we are addressing here. There have always been a 'select group of individuals' who are primarily attracted to religion because of the 'feel-good/magical side' of It,.....rather than completely advancing to 'also' including 'sound doctrine and Biblical principles'. This 'mentality' is also, precisely, what I was referring to in my recent post ( #377) to you regarding the 'goodness and severity' of God, and for those who primarily gravitate to the 'goodness/love side of God', only, and shun away from the 'severity/teaching side of God'. The charismatic movement has always been predicated on the 'feel-good/magical side' of Christianity. As such, they will 'hop about' from 'this church to that church',....from 'this movement to the next',....in their never ceasing search, ( and quest), of the 'feel-good/magical side' of their distorted perception of Christianity. Any 'temporal' stay that they might encounter at their most recent 'church, or movement' layover, always comes to an abrupt end when the Pastor/Evangelist begins to teach, ( or address), sound doctrine and Church principles. It's then time for them to 'move on to the next Dog and Pony show'. You can literally 'set your watch' on them to do precisely this!


    In light of this, perhaps you can see why the Apostle Paul was so quick to address, in detail, this 'festering problem' in the early Church. Along with this phenomenal 'Gift of the Holy Ghost' comes a natural 'zeal' that,....( left untouched and not properly corralled),....can become 'totally out of control' and cause destructive results within the Church. Paul 'wisely' knew, ( and recognized), this and had no problem 'corralling' the usage of this 'dynamic Christian power!'


    Automobiles, understandably, come equipped with engines of various sizes and 'horsepower'. Just because one might be in possession of an automobile with tremendous 'horsepower capabilities',....does that mean we are permitted to go out on the 'highways/byways of life' and carelessly accelerate them to their maximum capability,...to the danger of society? I think not, my friend.


    Such is the case, Akasha, for those who have allowed themselves to undergo an 'engine replacement' in the span of their respective lives. Obviously, this 'new engine', which is now the 'driving force' of our lives, doesn't operate off of 'horsepower',....but the 'spiritual-power' of the Holy Ghost!

    Quote Acts 1:8 (KJV)

    8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:,......
    Certainly, Paul would have had no knowledge of 'engines/horsepower' for the day in which he lived,....but he was specifically anointed in the total knowledge of 'mankind/spiritual-power',.....and how destructive, ( or constructive), It would prove to be in mankind's possession. Paul's responsibility was to take proper actions and see to it that this 'spiritual-power' would wind up in the 'constructive category!' He was not willing to stand by the wayside and allow the Church members of Corinth to 'ignorantly accelerate themselves' to Spiritual destruction. Just because they had this 'tremendous power of the Holy Ghost',....did not give them the right, ( nor the permission), to carelessly abuse this 'power!' They were, literally,......'spiritual teenagers',.....who were being introduced to their first 'Major Ride', and totally ignorant to the 'power behind that Major Ride'. The 'Major Ride' that I speak of here is the 'new Christian life/roadway' that they have embarked upon. 'Sound doctrine and Biblical principles' would be the 'class' they needed to attend, in order to correctly, ( and safely), handle this 'Major Ride!',...and the 'tremendous spiritual power' related to it.

    Quote 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

    15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    The 'instructors of this class' come from an anointed group of 'Five',......

    Quote Ephesians 4:11-12 (KJV)

    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    Invariably,....most 'charismatics' opt to 'move on down the road',....when in reality they need to attend 'class' and learn from these 'Five!'


    Your brother, friend, and servant,.........kreagle
    Last edited by kreagle; 25th December 2012 at 06:39.
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    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  15. Link to Post #390
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Merry Christmas to you kreagle, and a peace-filled new year.

    Quote Posted by kreagle (here)
    'Wise Men', ( and Women),......Still Seek The Lord!!!





    Quote Matthew 1:20-23 (KJV)

    20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    The 'Reason for the Season',.....'Merry Christmas to all!',.......kreagle
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Happy Birthday Jesus!!!

    I have a question many have during Christmas...

    what happened to Joseph after Jesus was born?

    did he pass when Jesus was 12 around the time he joined the Essenes until his mid 20s when he started?

    was Mary with him when he joined the Essenes?

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    was Mary with him when he joined the Essenes?
    Is that a rock band?

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    Happy Birthday Jesus!!!

    Mary with him when he joined the Essenes?
    Yes, Happy Birthday Jesus!

    I thought that Mary was an 'Essene' originally,
    didn't she found the group when she left the folk trio 'Peter, Paul and Mary'?

    (please don't anyone take offence at my bad joke)

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Thanks for your answer to my last post, Kreagle. Do you have any comments to share on the article I presented within my last post about Martin Luther and his interpretation of speaking in tongues?

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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    Thanks for your answer to my last post, Kreagle. Do you have any comments to share on the article I presented within my last post about Martin Luther and his interpretation of speaking in tongues?
    Akasha,

    A 'brief' statement, from your article,......
    Quote Luther believed that in apostolic times, people had spoken "new tongues" as a sign and "witness to the Jews." In his own day, however, Christianity no longer required the confirmation of such signs.
    It should be noted that 'both' of the prophesies of Isaiah and Jesus, ( concerning 'speaking in tongues' ), are 'all inclusive' for those who obeyed the Apostles message, on the Day of Pentecost, and were never meant to be 'isolated, ( and allocated), to only a certain era of time', as indicated by Martin Luther.

    Remember the prophetic words of Isaiah,......
    Quote Isaiah 28:11-12 (KJV)

    11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

    12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
    Also,....remember the prophetic words of Jesus, Himself,......
    Quote Mark 16:17 (KJV)

    17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    As I have mentioned before, this 'mentality' has always been 'common and expected' from those who have yet to 'experience this wonderful, Spiritual phenomena'. The accompanying 'denial and exclusion' portrayed by him, ( and others), becomes the only defense they can produce, for it certainly cannot be produced, ( or supported), by the Scriptures.

    It should not surprise anyone that there remains such confusion over the issue of 'speaking in tongues', as associated with receiving the genuine Holy Ghost experience. This ploy has been used over, and over again by Satan, and seems to be extremely effective in casting doubt in the minds of many potential believers. The 'same level of faith' that is required to activate, ( and receive), the Holy Ghost today,.....is exactly the 'same level of faith' the 120 'original believers' had to implement before they were also filled with His Spirit! Absolutely,.....'nothing has changed!'

    Quote Luther believed that in apostolic times, people had spoken "new tongues" as a sign and "witness to the Jews."
    This 'sign and witness to the Jews' comment by Martin Luther, is easily refuted by Scripture in the account of 'Cornelius and his entire household', ( 'not Jews,....but 'Gentiles'), also receiving the Spirit of God, precisely like the Jews had earlier.

    Quote Acts 10:34, 44-48 (KJV)

    34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:,......



    44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

    47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

    48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
    Yes, Peter,......you are 'exactly correct', brother!,.....God is no 'respecter of persons!' To the Jew,...Gentile,....Bond,.....or Free,....Now,....or Later,....it makes absolutely no difference to an 'uniform and impartial God!'

    Quote Hebrews 13:8 (KJV)

    8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


    Malachi 3:6 (KJV)

    6 For I am the Lord, I change not;......

    I 'choose to accept, ( and believe), the Biblical account on this',......and NOT the 'account, ( and version), of Martin Luther.'


    Respectfully,.....your brother, friend, and servant,.......kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  24. Link to Post #396
    United States (Rocky_Shorz passed away on 5 June 2021)
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    The Holy Ghost is a she, not a him...

    I do believe in Luther's teachings, but even he left out that important little bit...

    why are all religions afraid of man knowing?

    is there one passage, where Jesus actually states the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a man, or is it word of mouth teaching?

    many Christian Preachers teach God is Jesus, when even Jesus himself looked up to God...

    no disrespect to anyone, sharing clarity to those who want to know...

  25. Link to Post #397
    Costa Rica Avalon Member ulli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    The Holy Ghost is a she, not a him...

    I do believe in Luther's teachings, but even he left out that important little bit...

    why are all religions afraid of man knowing?

    is there one passage, where Jesus actually states the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a man, or is it word of mouth teaching?

    many Christian Preachers teach God is Jesus, when even Jesus himself looked up to God...

    no disrespect to anyone, sharing clarity to those who want to know...
    The Bahai Revelation began with the Holy Spirit appearing to Baha'u'llah in the underground prison where he lay in chains.

    From Wikipedia:

    The Maid of Heaven


    Maid of Heaven refers to a vision that Bahá’u’lláh, founder of the Bahá'í Faith had of a maiden from God, through whom he received his mission as a Messenger of God.
    In his Súriy-i-Haykal (Tablet of the Temple) Bahá’u’lláh describes his vision as follows:

    "While engulfed in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head.
    Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden - the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of My Lord -
    suspended in the air before Me.
    So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good-pleasure of God,
    and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the All-Merciful.
    Betwixt Earth and Heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men.
    She was imparting to both My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul,
    and the souls of God's honoured servants.
    Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in Heaven and all who are on Earth saying:
    "By God! This is the best beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not.
    This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand."

    Shoghi Effendi compares the Maid of Heaven with the Holy Spirit as manifested in the burning bush of Moses, the dove to Jesus, the angel Gabriel to Muhammad....


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maid_of_Heaven

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    United States Avalon Member kreagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
    The Holy Ghost is a she, not a him...

    I do believe in Luther's teachings, but even he left out that important little bit...

    why are all religions afraid of man knowing?

    is there one passage, where Jesus actually states the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a man, or is it word of mouth teaching?

    many Christian Preachers teach God is Jesus, when even Jesus himself looked up to God...

    no disrespect to anyone, sharing clarity to those who want to know...

    Rocky_Shorz,


    Quote The Holy Ghost is a she, not a him...

    .......is there one passage, where Jesus actually states the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a man, or is it word of mouth teaching?
    The Holy Ghost is the 'Father' of the child, Jesus. A 'she' did not overshadow Mary, ( another 'she'), and impregnate her. I certainly agree that this event is considered to be the 'immaculate conception', and totally 'magical' in essence,.....but NOT 'that' magical, brother!

    Quote Matthew 1:18 (KJV)

    18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
    Holy Ghost,.....'his' voice,.....NOT 'her' voice!

    Quote Hebrews 3:7-11 (KJV)

    7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

    8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

    9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

    10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

    11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
    Here is your passage of Jesus specifically identifying 'the Spirit of truth' as a He,.....( 10 times!)
    Quote John 16:13-16 (KJV)

    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
    Also, from the 'mouth of Jesus', Himself,......
    Quote John 14:26 (KJV)

    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    Quote many Christian Preachers teach God is Jesus, when even Jesus himself looked up to God...
    More accurately,.....God is God,......God is 'One',......and Jesus is His Name!

    Our Catholic 'friends' have endeavored to divide His Godhead, by three, and established this dogma, ( three separate 'persons', or 'Deities'), at the Council of Nicaea 325 A.D.

    Of course, one can 'choose to believe' whatever they wish to believe,....in this regards. Personally,.....I 'choose' to take a closer look at what the Scriptures actually say, and what they have always taught mankind.

    There may be 'three offices,...or roles',....that God has operated in, ( and still does),....but that at no time has this meant that He was ever more than 'One' in property.

    Quote 1 John 5:7 (KJV)

    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    This 'Biblical point' was specifically 'drilled into the hearts and minds of His people, Israel',.....and absolutely no mention, ( much less 'teachings'), of a divided Godhead, ( ie. 'trinity') were ever entertained by Israel,....much less allowed.


    'Godhead 101',....to Israel was 'always' defined as follows,......
    Quote Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV)

    4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
    He hasn't changed today, either,......for He still remains 'One'. He is still the 'only God we need',....and His New Testament name is Jesus!

    Rocky,....in light of your statements,.....we are going to have to 'agree to disagree', brother!

    Peace and Love,.......kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  29. Link to Post #399
    United States Avalon Member kreagle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    A 'Cleaned-up Version'


    I submitted the following thread,....'Merry Christmas, Avalon!', on Christmas Day. What was intended to be a genuine extension of 'goodwill', ( and 'was' taken as such by some), exposed another side of humans that I, quite frankly, had not given any thought to in the past. It's pretty obvious by the comments, ( and requests), of the 'offended' that a 'cleaned-up version' of Christ on the Cross is what a great deal of people are looking for. It seems that the 'factual side', ( and presentation), here is simply too much for many to handle and, no doubt, accentuates the overall 'Gospel Message', which in turn exposes our own 'personal guilt and overall responsibility.'

    In my 'Merry Christmas, Avalon!' thread, the passages of Scripture that I felt led to share dealt with 'who He was'. In an effort to 'properly enjoy Christmas', it is vitally important that one 'knows who He is', consequently this was the 'message intended' for this thread,....To 'know him' and His goodwill towards mankind. Little did I know it, at the time, but the 'Spirit' evidently had 'other intentions for this thread' and chose to go in a different direction that I had not anticipated. The Spirit chose, rather, to highlight 'what He did' over 'who He was!' As I consequently pointed out, in a later post to the 'offended', Isaiah the prophet spoke about this.

    Quote Isaiah 53:5 (KJV)

    5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
    The Apostle Peter equally made reference to this event,........
    Quote 1 Peter 2:24 (KJV)

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
    While it may appear gruesome,.... ( and it 'was!'),....it was specifically 'those 39 stripes', and the shedding of His precious blood, that provides 'healing for our bodies', and 'more importantly',.....'salvation for our souls!'

    Our Chief Adversary, Satan himself, will do every he can to influence us to 'clean Calvary up',.....eliminate the 'memory of the 39 lashes',......and 'totally wipe His blood from Calvary and the scene of the crime'.

    To 'those' who wish for a 'Cleaned-up Version' of Calvary, or even 'His Word', too,.....you might want to reconsider what you are really asking for.

    Quote 1 John 1:7 (KJV)

    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    Nothing but the 'blood of Jesus' will make you 'totally clean!' Eliminate It,......and you've just effectively eliminated your 'cleansing agent!'


    Love and Peace,........kreagle






    Link to thread: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post605583
    Quote The 'Tabernacle' of God, Himself!


    From the 'Cradle',......



    To the 'Cross',.......[/IMG]

    Quote Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)

    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Quote Isaiah 7:14 (KJV)

    14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.



    Matthew 1:23 (KJV)

    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    Quote John 1:1, 14 (KJV)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,.......


    Quote 1 Timothy 6:14-16 (KJV)

    14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

    16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Make sure that 'Christ' is completely entrenched in your personal 'Christmas!'

    ( please take 'this' in the spirit of my goodwill and intentions for 'everyone',.....regardless to whether you believe in God,.....or not!)



    Merry Christmas to 'all',....and God Bless!,........kreagle
    ***Death***************Burial***************Resurrection***



    Quote 1 John 2:6 (KJV)

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    ( Obedience to Acts 2:38 enables us to 'spiritually' walk down our own personal pathway to Calvary with our own personal Cross!)

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  31. Link to Post #400
    Australia Avalon Member panopticon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bible Topics and Questions

    Quote Posted by kreagle (here)
    Our Catholic 'friends' have endeavored to divide His Godhead, by three, and established this dogma, ( three separate 'persons', or 'Deities'), at the Council of Nicaea 325 A.D.

    Of course, one can 'choose to believe' whatever they wish to believe,....in this regards. Personally,.....I 'choose' to take a closer look at what the Scriptures actually say, and what they have always taught mankind.
    G'day Kreagle,

    At the time of the First Council Of Nicaea there were many factions within Christianity that were all duking it out over what was and what wasn't acceptable dogma.

    There are lots of references to the period leading up to and following the First Council and what was going on in both the Roman Empire (for example there were lots of powerful religions fighting over control which many believe may have led to Constantine's [debated] conversion to Christianity) and the other regions that Christianity existed in.

    It's a very fascinating period in the early construction of Church doctrine and is extremely helpful in understanding how aspects of Christianity, and in particular Catholicism, came to be.

    Here's a translation of the Creed:

    Quote The Nicene Creed

    The Synod at Nice set forth this Creed.
    The Ecthesis of the Synod at Nice.

    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of his Father, of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten (γεννηθέντα), not made, being of one substance (ὁμοούσιον, consubstantialem) with the Father. By whom all things were made, both which be in heaven and in earth. Who for us men and for our salvation came down [from heaven] and was incarnate and was made man. He suffered and the third day he rose again, and ascended into heaven. And he shall come again to judge both the quick and the dead. And [we believe] in the Holy Ghost. And whosoever shall say that there was a time when the Son of God was not (ἤν ποτε ὅτε οὐκ ἦν), or that before he was begotten he was not, or that he was made of things that were not, or that he is of a different substance or essence [from the Father] or that he is a creature, or subject to change or conversion — all that so say, the Catholic and Apostolic Church anathematizes them.
    Source.
    The term consubstantial is an interesting one and was used to breech the gap between the various Christian groups who were trying to gain dominance/control of doctrine in this period. It essentially means that there is only one God 'substance or essence' and that the trinity is just an expression of that essence so we mere mortal fools can understand the great and unknowable expression of his supreme and superior glory (or something to that effect).

    That's as I understand it anyways.

    Good way to avoid infighting by saying everybody is right (expect the few heretics who they persecuted, tortured and/or excommunicated [anathematize]).

    Hope you found this interesting.
    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon

    BTW the doctrine of the Trinity gradually developed through the First Council of Constantinople (in 360 under the rule of Emperor Constantius II) and then another First Council of Constantinople (in 381 under the rule of Emperor Theodosius I).
    Yeah, that's right 2 first councils...

    So in 360 they came up with this:
    Quote But since the term ousia [substance or essence], which was used by the fathers in a very simple and intelligible sense, but not being understood by the people, has been a cause of offense, we have thought proper to reject it, as it is not contained even in the sacred writings; and that no mention of it should be made in future, inasmuch as the holy Scriptures have nowhere mentioned the substance of the Father and of the Son. Nor ought the subsistence of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit to be even named. But we affirm that the Son is like the Father, in such a manner as the sacred Scriptures declare and teach. Let therefore all heresies which have been already condemned, or may have arisen of late, which are opposed to this exposition of the faith, be anathema.
    Source.
    So the doctrine of the Trinity originated, as I understand it anyway, because people (ie "the faithful") were having difficulty understanding the use of 'essence or substance'. The Trinity became doctrine because of this and was later confirmed by Theodosius I.

    The end result was that the Trinity doctrine helped to (yet again) overcome infighting between the various factions struggling for dominance/control while labelling those they didn't like as 'heretics'.

    I really do hope you found this informative as I think it's a very interesting stage in the development of Church doctrine (I miss RedeZra, he'd have known this inside out and upside down and would have explained it much better than I).
    Last edited by panopticon; 27th December 2012 at 12:10. Reason: Update
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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