It's December 21 2012 already in Indonesia,..NOTHING happen!..boring life as usual

[panopticon]

Posted by niki (here)
although your post is well-meant, but unfortunately, I really honestly don't see anything 'special' with this whole "DO IT, ACT ON IT" message,
I (& many sincerely GOOD people in this world) have already known about all these stuff, even without these whole "New-Agey, Ascension, spiritual-ish" stuff.

what I DO want to ask is: what about all those whole things about "December 21 2012" like: Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things (& predictions) that's being made in this forum?...
now, with NOTHING practically and literally happened in this long-prophesied super-important December 21 2012 date,
can I still believe in all those things mentioned above?.. are they really *real* ? .. or just some 'creative' human's Imaginations and made-up wishful-thinking/hopeful/fantasy?

at this point, I really need a real critical, common-sense, sincere & honest answer, not another sugar-coating metaphorical language anymore, it won't work anymore for me.

I would ask why you needed to believe in all those things at once anyhow?

I don't use 'sugar-coating metaphorical language' and would have to say that you may well need professional help if you feel that you need to believe everything you read.

Yes to critical thinking, yes to common sense but with a caveat. Common sense, by its very definition, limits the imagination so don't take things that are declared as "self evident truths" as being true just because it is the general consensus...

All the greatest steps forward have been done by those who dreamt of a different way of seeing the world. Whether it was a solution to a problem (sometimes abstract theoretical ones, sometimes real world practical applications), a way of understanding the world and/or a view on the so-called human condition the major leaps have been done by people who didn't follow the general consensus, who thought differently to the mass of the population. I think the majority of them were ridiculed by their peers but they stood their ground and now we remember them as being great innovators and thinkers.

Maybe one day you will find a solution that goes against the grain and then you will have to make the decision of whether to rely on what others have told you as being true and what you have discovered to be true. I hope on that day you wont have someone talk to you about common sense, absolute proof and general consensus.

I really am a tad confused as to why you placed so much importance on a date.

You obviously did otherwise you are simply being disingenuous and ridiculing people who have different beliefs/understandings to yourself. Sadly having read back through your post history I think this is probably the case, but it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.
Regards,
Panopticon

[apokalypse]

when the last time what Prophecies/Prediction came true with clear statement? like This event will happen on this date...i find interesting that Prophecies/Prediction come true after event happen.

[panopticon]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
when the last time what Prophecies/Prediction came true with clear statement? like This event will happen on this date...i find interesting that Prophecies/Prediction come true after event happen.

G'day Apokalypse,

There's a long history of failed "end of days" predictions.
Check out this list at Wikipedia (it's too long to post):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...alyptic_events
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[danceblackcatdance]

life is boring... i dont think so welcome to the 'new age' niki... if you dont like what you see, take a look at yourself xx

[Eagle Eye]

The lesson is learned , time to move to the next one.

[niki]

Posted by Iceberg (here)
The lesson is learned , time to move to the next one.

what 'lesson'?..

with all honesty, I simply can't respect short yet trying to sound 'deep' or 'intelligent' comment posts like this one.
you have to be more specific.

because we are talking about also MANY 2012 believers-turned-into-skeptics-and-critics kind of people here (which I've found in many places across the internet, "2012" forums, websites, & discussions, and to be fair, these type of 'skeptics' and 'critical' people DO have their valid arguments too),
that, just like me, needs at least a more thorough and detailed answers/responses, in order for them to at least re-consider & 'convert' them back into "believers" again, rather than these one-liner simplistic (& in a way, very ignorant as well) responses like this.

no offense, I'm just being straight-forwardly honest here.

[niki]

I think unfortunately, some (or even quite many) people still don't understand what I really exactly mean by this thread:

to put it in the most straight-forward manner:
I simply am honestly and critically curious & want to ask:
If most of you here ("new age" type especially) still kept repeating the statement that "all change ONLY comes from WITHIN, and then all the external/outside things will follow", then my sincere honest critical questions are:

1) isn't this all just the same 'common, ordinary' advices as already many motivational, self-help books & teachings that seems very 'mainstream' and popular nowadays? and even these kind of advices I would say is a very basic common-sense ones, albeit a very simplistic ones & can be counter-argued, ie: how about those poor starving hungry born in war zones children in Africa, that they have HOPED & TRIED to "CHANGE from within" -like so many of you "new age" people simplistically often said- , yet obviously, the harsh REALITY is: they are still poor starving hungry and dying, many of them!... where all these 'basic' new-age advices come into place in those kind of harsh reality?.. Or, perhaps many of you here have overlooked, or even try to close your eyes to these whole "oh so negative" OTHER side of reality?.. but, reality IS reality nevertheless, isn't it?

2) Even then, where are all the certain prophecies even often mentioned in this forum eg: "Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things predictions, prophecies, which are essentially, same thing as PROMISES ??...
after this whole December 21 2012 have come and go with NOTHING pretty much happening, one thing I would really dislike -even genuinely hate, honestly- are:

a) all these "new age" people, 'gurus' , channelings, "Ascended Maters" etc etc people just simply -and cunningly- postpone the date into the later date (eg: year 2013, 2014, 2030, etc etc) . now if this is the case, then isn't it the same with all those religions prophecies that many of you here often discredit as well?.. what makes you different then with all those 'religious' type of people, who will simply blindly believe in all these whole "2012" especially "December 21 2012" prophecies?..

b) these same 'gurus' also just easily, simply -and cunningly- changed their words/sentences and said that "the Change is actually supposed to come from within ONLY", "the Change is continuous" etc etc etc... which is, again, like I've explained at the beginning of this post, that these are all actually simply just some very BASIC, & common-sense 'advices' that in fact actually ELIMINATE any needs for the "2012" gurus, prophecies, and their 'teachings' , theories, etc!

Answer me in good, thorough, detailed, and respectable arguments,
and you might perhaps make me "see" what I haven't seen, and perhaps even make me apologize, and being OPEN-minded again to believe in all these whole "2012, New Age" things.
until then, in all honesty, I would say I deserve to remain skeptic (& critical) in not believing what these whole "2012", and even this forum's many theories & 'findings' (even still regard them probably as cleverly & creatively man-made theories, stories, or even just some mere man's hope/fantasy/wishful-thinking!).

Last but not least, I will be very honest in finally stating my own personal honest reasoning about why I'm making this thread:
Too many people are disappointed in this whole December 21 2012 things (not only me), so I (and many others disappointed side of people) deserve a right (and reasonings back) to know the arguments from the "believers" side. I think it's only natural, and honest/sincere, in expecting some intelligent and well-thorough feedback in all of this important matters. all for the sake of only, and only, the REAL truth of what's really going on.

-regards from Indonesia-

[Flash]

I was not a believer for the date, never thought anything substantial could happen on that precise date, although I think that the mindset of humans is actually shifting althogether, over a longer period of time, could even be 1-2 centuries more. Some say they have experienced a surge of energy, that it comes from their imagination or from reality matters not. The opening of oneself does. I still do not comprehend why some would believe and desire catastrophic events if the changes can happen in a smoother fashion with not too much hurt.

However,

If most of you here ("new age" type especially) still kept repeating the statement that "all change ONLY comes from WITHIN, and then all the external/outside things will follow", then my sincere

these same 'gurus' also just easily, simply -and cunningly- changed their words/sentences and said that "the Change is actually supposed to come from within ONLY", "the Change is continuous" etc etc etc... which is, again, like I've explained at the beginning of this post, that these are all actually simply just some very BASIC, & common-sense 'advices' that in fact actually ELIMINATE any needs for the "2012" gurus, prophecies, and their 'teachings' , theories, etc!

Answer me in good, thorough, detailed, and respectable arguments,
and you might perhaps make me "see" what I haven't seen, and perhaps even make me apologize, and being OPEN-minded again to believe in all these whole "2012, New Age" things.

however, I do think you are quite unfair to this forum and have not done your homework on it.

Before asking from us answer to your questions arising from sheer frustration, may be we could ask you to do your homework and look at the numerous number of threads here that never bought into the 2012 saga and that area quite thorough in research and views about the universe and its laws.

May be I could start by telling you to read, in it entirety, the following threads:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ne-what-s-left

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...nce-reality..-

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...mbining-thread

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...rus#post605806

and many more on healt, the Vatican, school shotings, etc, even Fulford threads on Asia.

So please, do not limit us to the 2012 ideas and look beyond. THen come back and ask us real sturdy question about the REAL truth as you say.

I am very sorry you believed in the 2012 saga so much and had to go through so much disappointment.

[Napping]

Posted by niki (here)
I think unfortunately, some (or even quite many) people still don't understand what I really exactly mean by this thread:

to put it in the most straight-forward manner:
I simply am honestly and critically curious & want to ask:
If most of you here ("new age" type especially) still kept repeating the statement that "all change ONLY comes from WITHIN, and then all the external/outside things will follow", then my sincere honest critical questions are:

1) isn't this all just the same 'common, ordinary' advices as already many motivational, self-help books & teachings that seems very 'mainstream' and popular nowadays? and even these kind of advices I would say is a very basic common-sense ones, albeit a very simplistic ones & can be counter-argued, ie: how about those poor starving hungry born in war zones children in Africa, that they have HOPED & TRIED to "CHANGE from within" -like so many of you "new age" people simplistically often said- , yet obviously, the harsh REALITY is: they are still poor starving hungry and dying, many of them!... where all these 'basic' new-age advices come into place in those kind of harsh reality?.. Or, perhaps many of you here have overlooked, or even try to close your eyes to these whole "oh so negative" OTHER side of reality?.. but, reality IS reality nevertheless, isn't it?

2) Even then, where are all the certain prophecies even often mentioned in this forum eg: "Ascension, E.T intervention, Galactic Federation of Light, Higher-dimensions, ascension to 5D, Disclosure, and many other 'oh-so-wonderful' things predictions, prophecies, which are essentially, same thing as PROMISES ??...
after this whole December 21 2012 have come and go with NOTHING pretty much happening, one thing I would really dislike -even genuinely hate, honestly- are:

a) all these "new age" people, 'gurus' , channelings, "Ascended Maters" etc etc people just simply -and cunningly- postpone the date into the later date (eg: year 2013, 2014, 2030, etc etc) . now if this is the case, then isn't it the same with all those religions prophecies that many of you here often discredit as well?.. what makes you different then with all those 'religious' type of people, who will simply blindly believe in all these whole "2012" especially "December 21 2012" prophecies?..

b) these same 'gurus' also just easily, simply -and cunningly- changed their words/sentences and said that "the Change is actually supposed to come from within ONLY", "the Change is continuous" etc etc etc... which is, again, like I've explained at the beginning of this post, that these are all actually simply just some very BASIC, & common-sense 'advices' that in fact actually ELIMINATE any needs for the "2012" gurus, prophecies, and their 'teachings' , theories, etc!

Answer me in good, thorough, detailed, and respectable arguments,
and you might perhaps make me "see" what I haven't seen, and perhaps even make me apologize, and being OPEN-minded again to believe in all these whole "2012, New Age" things.
until then, in all honesty, I would say I deserve to remain skeptic (& critical) in not believing what these whole "2012", and even this forum's many theories & 'findings' (even still regard them probably as cleverly & creatively man-made theories, stories, or even just some mere man's hope/fantasy/wishful-thinking!).

Last but not least, I will be very honest in finally stating my own personal honest reasoning about why I'm making this thread:
Too many people are disappointed in this whole December 21 2012 things (not only me), so I (and many others disappointed side of people) deserve a right (and reasonings back) to know the arguments from the "believers" side. I think it's only natural, and honest/sincere, in expecting some intelligent and well-thorough feedback in all of this important matters. all for the sake of only, and only, the REAL truth of what's really going on.

-regards from Indonesia-

Nikki your frustration/disappointment is palpable and I can certainly relate. The lure and longing of a life more magical and just than it appears is difficult to ignore. My first experience of this disappointment was asking my father as a 9 year old whether Santa was real and receiving the TRUTH. Life has been full of such disappointments since that time.....yet I keep searching for the magic....or if not the magic, the truth. That's why I've scanned this forum, books, videos for several years.

So what has kept us on the search, when mostly we find disappointment or contradictions? One could argue denial, or escapism. I prefer to think it is an inner knowing. That there is indeed and has been in the past, much more to the world of disparity, scarcity and control that we are all subjected to.

I would use the 2012 failed prophecies, related changelings ie GFL etc to help you have a bit of a spiritual spring clean out. It's an opportunity for you to move many of the so called gurus and fantastical believes of ascension off your radar and re sharpen your focus.

In my personal opinion there is indeed much more to this world than meets the eye which could well be regarded as magical. Graham Hancock's work on our hidden history indeed reveals an amazing world that was, which people have gone to enormous lengths to keep suppressed. The Thrive movement and movie is a step in the right direction towards uncovering some of this suppressed, incredible technology which could lead towards a Utopia I sense that your spirit is craving....and there are many other groups working hard to achieve a similar outcome.

To cut to the chase, don't give up the search for truth and your own contribution in uncovering that truth. Yes, we have been deceived time and time again and will continue to be deceived, but be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. There are some wonderfully intelligent and balanced minds on this forum that can help you discern what we should be focussing on and what is a distraction. Bill Ryan and Rmorgan are just two of many examples of individuals I feel are well skilled in this area....although they are human and occasionally get it wrong as well. Utilise them and your own discernment, keep positive and as others have mentioned on this thread, don't discount the importance of inner work (meditation, prayer, service to others, etc) in helping you find the truth and create the "magic".

All the best Nikki, keep your chin up.

[niki]

December 21 2012 have passed and Nothing of a prophesied BIG events happened,
instead, we've seen numerous excuses, changed dates, changed metaphors, etc etc

so unless I can see some more real, concrete, & critical logical proof,
don't expect me to easily fall into the whole "2013" again.
I won't be that naive anymore.

-regards from Truth-seeker from Indonesia-