Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

[Reaver]

Posted by turiya
Metyphysics is nonsense, but even then it must be serving some purpose, otherwise, why would it have existed for so long?

Are we even on the same page when the term Metaphysics is used? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

Posted by turiya
Man finds himself helpless in a strange world, unfamiliar - not only unknown, but unknowable to boot. This darkness, this cloud of unknowing, disturbs the human mind tremendously. Somehow man consoles himself. Somehow he has to create knowledge. Something he can cling to... Something he can identify with... Otherwise, the reality will hit him squarely in the face - the reality that he doesn't know who he is, this will drive him into madness - at least that is the fear that his thinking mind will use to prod him into creating more & more nonsense around himself.

Yeah that could be some messed up extreme. BUT... if the world was truly unknowable then you wouldn't be able to use a computer to write your posts. The universe IS Knowable, whether we have the capacity to process it all or not is a different matter altogether. We have different tools to explore different areas of the Microcosmos and the Macrocosmos, if both of them were unknowable then we would be lucky to live in the stone age. This quote expresses it nicely:

The cosmos did not design itself according to data; it was designed on the basis of logic. If you wanted to understand a computer program, would you study the output of the program or the code of the program itself? Scientists have attempted to work back from the data to the program; philosophers have tried to understand the program with little regard to its output. The proper approach is to come at the problem from both angles at the same time.

Which points us towards the Synthesis that Modwiz was talking about.

Posted by turiya
Even if that knowledge is not true knowledge, it will give the appearance that one is grounded. It will give the appearance that one is not so helpless. One pretends through it, pretends to know, pretends to be a knower, a knowledgeable intellectual, that he is not such a stranger to himself, to the world he finds himself in... and creates a false illusion of power in the process.

Aye, you could find yourself there. Then again if you want to get really philosophical about it, then this is the kind of thing which creates a conflict, an Thesis vs an Antithesis, without such conflict you'd be unable and incapable of making any progress. From where "I'm standing" it seems that humanity has being going through philosophical war of sorts... Irrationality vs Rationality, Apollo vs Dionysus. Fail either polarity and insanity is sure to follow. So again a Synthesis is needed, a Synthesis which allows a human being to process a healthy Irrationality and a healthy Rationality... or a healthy balance between the right and left brain as Modwiz put it.

Posted by turiya
Words are spells only out of ignorance. Only out of a belief that they are powerful.

Nope. Words can also be spells which come out of Wisdom. For more on the power of words: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...guage-as-Magic "Words have power" is more than a mere cliche.

Posted by turiya
Awareness is enough to put an end to a bad dream.

To a bad dream maybe, but not to our current condition. Awareness is one step of the process, but never the whole.

Posted by Rahkyt
Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

No, the kind of Synthesis Modwiz is talking about has nothing to do with the word Synthetic. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect...lian_dialectic

Posted by 9Ealge9
If the mind could grow, cultivate or have an ego imposed on them, then the emo body could create a pain body. Both are defense mechanisms that run out of control eventually. Unfortunately the ego starts a relationship with the pain body that is based mostly on sadism.

For more on this I highly recommend Erich Fromm's book "Escape From Freedom"

Posted by 9Eagle9
Here's a non new agey approach.

Pick one thing in your life that keeps re-occuring. Usually unpleasant.

Frex, you constantly struggle with keeping a job, finances, etc.

You keep getting in relationships with seemingly the same person over and over again.

the same circumstances keep happening over and over again.

First realizing this and then pinpointing back to where that all start is initiating in self clearing process.

New Agey floof will say wave some sage around.

If anyone is interested in gaining a deeper understanding of this dynamic: http://www.sanctuaryweb.com/reenactment.php

Psychology is another element which should be integrated in the life on the individual and on the systems which are designed for society. If anything the western world (with it's predominant mechanistic approach) did create a very useful tool which integrates Reason with Magical Thinking in Psychology. Then again you must be careful when studying it because many people these days only get a stupid degree and parrot what they were told to parrot. The bright side is that you need no degrees to study psychology, a Psyche would do the trick and since people have one of those integrated... well you get the idea.

[WhiteFeather]

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by teradactyl (here)
modwiz, i am delving more and more into metaphysics in that my solitary journey wants to learn more.
where do i begin?
i have been looking online at mystery schools to find out what the course outline is, so that i can just do some learning on my own. i suppose this is where i can ask for assistance?

many thanks to you all - thank you modwiz for starting this thread. i have been working hard to be balance, without polarity. it was sure challenging during that time of pure hormones...

LOL

9eagle has given you the deeper reply to your answer. I will answer the shorter question about the subtle anatomy. I say the shorter answer becuase once you have the basic layout of of the subtle anatomy ther is just the care a feeding of it after that. The divinatory/revelatory tools of tarot, numerology, astrology and tree of life are how you make the information of the subtle bodies dynamic and useful.

Some of the best books on this subject for me are no longer in print. They can be found used. The few New editions are in the hundreds of dollars. They are "Gem Elixirs and Vibrational Healing Vol1 and Vol.2 and Flower Essences and Vibrational Healing. These books address the subtle anatomy in some considerable depth because gem elixirs and flower essences address this part of our anatomy. The early chapters lay the groundwork so that the later information on gem elixirs and flower essences can be understood. These books are very metaphysical but not difficult reading. Amazon carries used versions of them.

Rad are these one of the books you were referencing. I did a search and found this one on Pdf format.

www.pegasusproducts.com/pdf/WebReadyGem.pdf

Sorry....its just a reference book on crystals, gemstones and elixirs. Looks resourceful though.

[mosquito]

Where Science and Spirituality meet.

Metaphysics, as can be seen from the definition so kindly provided above, has, as a term evolved (like just about everything else) from what it was oiriginaly intended to mean. And I confess that I have always thought of it as meaning "the study of that which comes after/beyond the physical".

Before I say what I wish to add to the discussion, let me just say something about myself: I fluctuate between being able to express myself clearly in words, and being able to only write gibberish, so I hope that I can be in the former state for however long it takes me to write. I've worked in I.T. using low-level languages, so have a well developed, almost binary type sense of logic. But I studied Chinese Medicine, and from then on became much more right-brained and wholistic thinking, which has become greatly increased since living in China and attempting to learn the language. I've also studied science (mainly biology) at degree level, and done quite a lot of self-study of modern physics. If I could wave a magic wand and manifest the money to afford an eduucation in the modern world, Bio-Physics is what I'd study. I can visualize many things which would be considered metaphysical, but cannot adequately express them in words.

Sorry for the preamble, but I needed to say it. Anyway ........ Science/Philosophy have created (not maliciously) a split in our knowledge base - physics/metaphysics, natural/supernatural. But in truth THERE IS NO metaphysics (meaning that beyond Physics) nor any supernatural. The boundary between the 2 is completely changing, as the study of physics advances, our understanding advances, and that which was previously considered mystical becomes more clearly understood. Similarly, as Biology advances (considerably more slowly than Physics), that which was previously considered "supernatural" becomes understood, and therefore seen as perfectly "natural".

My hope (as expressed in Ilie's F.E. thread) is that we will eventually reach the stage where knowledge is knowledge; there will no longer be divisions, no longer be hierarchies of knowledge, we will have a complete understanding of who we are and our place in the universe.

Thanks for this thread, let's hope it lives longer than most of the good threads here !!

[modwiz]

I am aware that two other threads have begun on the forum pertaining to the New Age, which I will abbreviate NA if referred to in future postings. I think this is good because the NA has profoundly impacted the last two decades. There is much most of us owe to the pioneers of it and the culture that sprang from it. Like the hippie culture and the alternative press it has been infiltrated deeply. The types who do this will often occupy places of influence. It is how the game is played. It is also where the money to be had is. Please do not make me have to issue a disclaimer after every statement I make. I am counting on people to know I am not speaking in absolutes but generalities. It is how life is. Black and white are the termini for the pendulum swings with most action and reality occurring in between these two points. Who is genuine? By their fruits you will know them.

An interesting kind of black and white scenario germane to this conversation of metaphysics is the concept of tradition.

In the martial arts, it was standard practice, in the East, to have to earn ones way into a school. The concept of proper temperament and appreciation for a time honored practice was very important. There were all kinds of stories of how long and what people did to get accepted into a good school/dojo/dojang/kwoon. To our Western mind this kind of tradition look both ridiculous and abusive. To most of us. My take is that the Eastern and Western attitude about this reflects those points of the pendulum swing I mentioned earlier. I think respect for a good teacher and tradition is something missing from Western culture, but not quite to the degree of washing floors and sleeping at the entrance of the school in Winter. To be sure sons of those with money usually found an easier road because to resist such customers often resulted in "bad luck" for a teacher with integrity. Corruption from the top is not a new phenomenon. Hopefully it will soon be an old one.

This same circumstance of earning entrance to a school pertained to the mystery schools as well. In one instance you were being taught deadly combat skills and in the other you were taught how the cosmos worked. Also, administration skills were also part of this training. What was once considered a rounded classical education came out of these schools minus the esoterica. The Illuminati represent the "dark side" breakaway faction from the bigger Gnostic "Jedi Knights". Indulge me here. It was what are now known as the Illuminati (boo) that through underhandedness, lack of integrity and psychopathic natures, captured the upper hand and have done all they can to keep any challenges as dead as possible. Literally. The Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of France was the one of the last big battles fought for dominance of Europe and the world.

I'd call that a prologue but it was really just horizontal addressing of the larger subject.

Ok, the emotional body discussion and why it has been a focus as the opener of this thread. We have a subtle anatomy, energetic layers, associated with different mixtures of chakras, that overlay or interpenetrate the physical body. Choosing the most apt term here is a balance between accuracy and understanding. There are good discussions of kundalini in Viveks thread, but in brief there are currents that ascend and descend along the spine. It is very valid to think in terms of a musical scale, if that sort of information speaks to you. A healthy fully fuctioning person will have their notes in harmony with each other. The white notes of a piano are a case in point. The black notes will sound dissonant to varying degrees. Some will add a somber tone and others will be quite unpleasant. This would be the frequency overlay of looking at vibrational health. Now, along with frequency there is also volume or intensity. One could play a scale or sound a chord in such a way as to have one note sound louder than the others. This is a different kind of imbalance. The phrase, "too much of a good thing" is apropos here. The emotional body is one of the notes in our subtle body anatomical system. It gets rung a lot. In the case of media and advertising this is done on purpose. In relationships this is often the case but it is not done on the conscious level as much. Sociopaths tend to consciously carry hammers to smack this part of people.

As I mentioned before subtle bodies and chakras are intimately related. Chakras and the endocrine system are basically interface points between etheric/non-physical subtle anatomy and the physio/chemical body.

Now, for many adults, preexisting conditions pertaining to growing up and the patterns they form haunt us and create patterns of powerlessness that get repeated and become part of our energetic signature. These ongoing experiences reinforce concepts we have about ourselves. They lie in the pain body of the emotional body. These wounds become semi-permanent. We get protective of these soft spots. We seek to protect anymore pressure or hits on these areas. Furthermore, powerlessness makes one want to show they are not, and one step further is the fear of being taken advantage of or made a fool because it only reinforces our powerlessness and that hurts! This last point is a big contributor to defensiveness.

One manifestation of defensive behavior is to comb through spoken or written words looking for insults and/or slights. This is very self centered behavior. This is a descriptive and not pejorative statement. So, words intended for many can seem directed at the seeker of insults. This is the world of the pain body. One suffers very much alone. It is one of the reasons misery loves company. The isolation is temporarily suspended.

The problem with dominant emotional bodies besides imbalance is they create "noise" in discussions where the mental body is where the action is. The mental body is largely cool and dispassioned. "Did you call me an asshole?" (Yawn) That is where actual words are used. Where the insults are not spoken, not intended or imagined the mental body would not even take notice of them. They are not part of data accumulation. The mental body seeks to build, connect and just ride the air currents of the higher mind. In a forum where the focus is a discussion and exchange of ideas, we are best served by bringing our mental body to the table. Bringing the emotional body is like bringing a child to a dinner party. It might behave, it might get bored and fall asleep or.............. Nuf said?

To close this post let me clarify something. I only discussed the problem of the emotional body and specifically the pain body part of it. The child metaphor was meant to broaden the image somewhat. A healthy and balanced emotional body is a joy to experience. The pulses of energy that radiate from such a person are a delight and can lift a border line depressed person into a better place. Still, feelings are for feeling and not discussing. The wonderful feeling is to be experienced. A few words of how wonderful, nice, good someone feels would suffice. Further discussion would not really work. That's why there is poetry and why so few understand it.

With regards to the mental body, I am not lauding it, but simply mentioning it as the best energetic body to bring to a discussion of ideas and concepts. Concepts and ideas translate fairly well into language. Language was invented just for that purpose..........mainly.
In an above post of mine from another thread I mentioned how the descriptions of off planet races generally show different subtle body profiles. The scientists types, not unlike our own, can perform all kinds of painful/invasive procedures and are quite undisturbed or moved by ones discomfort, however extreme. This is a mental body predominance, the empathy that is a function of the emotional body is absent.
The reptilian profile is complicated, probably because it is actually more basic. Somewhat of a paradox.
Then you have what are considered the more advanced races and there we find emotional and mental bodies in harmony. Great intellect coupled with deep empathy. This combination leads to a form of wisdom. Part of having the mental and emotional bodies in harmony is it allows the properties of the higher frequency spiritual body and then causal body to be part of the greater psychological make up. This would be a form of us before "a fall". This is not meant in a religious sense, but our many planetary histories all make mention of one. Golden ages existed before "the fall". This post is an attempt to address problems we as a society need to address to access higher functioning aspects of ourselves. I do it for a better dialogue and understanding of ourselves and each other. Our friends and family need us to be our best. We deserve it and so do they. So does society and the planet. So does the galaxy. We are part of a greater whole and all of the parts need to function well. Optimally if possible. To know thyself is a start.

[modwiz]

Posted by WhiteFeather (here)

Rad are these one of the books you were referencing. I did a search and found this one on Pdf format.

www.pegasusproducts.com/pdf/WebReadyGem.pdf

Sorry....its just a reference book on crystals, gemstones and elixirs. Looks resourceful though.

This is a product catalogue based on the elixirs and essences found in the books. The descriptions are good for what they do. The book goes into greater depth about them and explains charkas, subtle bodies and physical systems and organs. Meridians from TCM are also often used. It is the chapters preceding the actual descriptions that contain the most information, laying the needed mental groundwork for what then was quite new conceptually. Bach's flower remedies were the first out but the detailed explanations were not there. Interestingly, Bach remedies address largely emotional body issues. Although, the subtle bodies do not exist in isolation but are part of a rainbow of energies. Imagine a rainbow with one color much brighter or the band much wider and one can get an idea of subtle body balance and the "geometry" of it.

I would recommend getting what you can from the pdf. The remedies are very reasonably priced.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

What is often theory, belief, or superstition to one can be hard fact to another. The difference being in training, practice, and disciplined inquiry. I have occasionally been ridiculed for my "beliefs" by people who have their own beliefs based on piecing ideas and anecdotes together rather than actually doing the hard work necessary to discover for themselves what is real and what is not. These people generally fall into the category of those who consider themselves "scientific" and "rational". One of my closest friends is in that crowd.

I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."

[modwiz]

I just read and corrected my post above for spelling. I see room for some expansion, but at 1500+ words it will have to stay as it is. Hopefully discussion will provide places for me to insert some information about the charkra/endocrine system and neuro-hormones and states of mind/mood. Although, Deepak Chopra has written on this subject as well as anybody ever will.

[Mark]

Good stuff, I'm in the middle of a household move, so my participation will be generally brief and to the point for a while.

Etymology: the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

It is very important that we use words precisely. Because words have meaning. But what is interesting about those meanings, is that words retain their original meaning, no matter what the new context or definition is. I'll use a very difficult example, just to show the power of words and how the understood meaning can change over time, but how the original meaning sometimes subtly and sometimes grossly can influence the new meaning.

N*gger --> Currently a derogatory or celebratory term used to either denigrate or compliment
Negro --> English --> Member of a black-skinned race of Africa
Negro --> Spanish, Portugese --> Black (as above)
Niger/Nigrum --> Latin --> Black, dark, sable, dusky, gloomy, unlucky, bad, wicked
Niger --> Ibo (W. African language) --> King; Niger-ia (also, N-ga) --> Queen; N-ger-s --> the Goddess Neggur (Hathor); Nugarmatta --> people of the Ghana (W. African) Empire
Naga --> Sanskrit --> Serpent deities in Hinduism and Buddhism; Aboriginal peoples of various Southeast Asian origins
N-g'r/Net-ger/Neter --> Egyptian --> God, gods and goddesses

In the context of Metaphysics and this most excellent thread, the words we choose to use to express ourselves are often indicative of where our level of understanding currently is. We are all ignorant, period. Lots of stuff we don't know. Life is a learning process and we are Works in progress. Because English has loan words from many language, the difficulty in knowing the origins of all of the words we use is self-evident. But since words have power, and we often lend personal power to the terms we use through the channeling of our own emotional/pain bodies in the phrases, sentences and postings that we add to the conversations we engage in, the spells we create for and against each other are very clear to those intimately familiar with words and with casting.

Quantum biology supports the notion of entanglement through interaction, minds intertwining, interwoven and interacting. We are, effectively, reaching into others when we speak or write. When we read, we are bringing others into ourselves. As we consider ideas expressed, we are co-creating a current and shared understanding of a form of reality that is specific to the spells we are co-casting, to the Great Work of Alchemy, personal transformation in the spiritual sense.

The sovereignty movement has a correct understanding of the power of words. The Elite have a correct understanding of the power of words. Metaphysicians have a correct understanding of the power of words. Words spoken begin as discursiveness within the brain, the little voice speaking within, for some, a constant chatter, for others who have worked on it utilizing meditative techniques - and who have, perhaps, experienced Kensho/Satori/Enlightenment/Grace events - that discursiveness has been stilled to a greater or lesser degree, and so the words they speak are supremely effective to the extent that they always say exactly what they mean. No more and no less.

Posted by Anchor (here)
This is key insight and makes me want to mention intent.

Intent decides how this power moves.

On reflection "decides" isn't the right word, they sort of happen simultaneously, intent and the movement of the wheels of the universe associate with that intent happen out of time.

Words can work magic upon us, cast spells, when you read certain people's writing, the precise, formulaic expression reads like a mathematical equation. When you read other people's writing, it reads more like a stream-of-consciousness ramble. Neither of which is good or bad, they just are, but much of the bickering that we fall prey to comes down to either an incorrect reading of the words and a correct reading of the intent behind the words or the correct reading of the words but an incorrect reading of the intent behind the words. The key word in the preceding sentence is intent, which is important, as John stated. That is where the power lies that imbues the words with energy.

If we are seeking to build something together, to create, to understand and move higher, together, then the intent will be clear and will infuse all conversations begun and carried out in this vein with a resonant vibratory frequency that will attract the kind of energy this thread was designed for.

And vice versa. Being careful with our words should be just par the course. Understanding what we are saying and really meaning when we share is not only considerate of others but shows a strong sense of self-respect. The emotional/pain body does indeed just get in the way. Clear communication is paramount, especially on this topic of utmost importance.

[Anchor]

The act of mindfully uttering a word or writing a word, is ritual.

Getting ritual right takes effort. Ritual is performed to a standard that one has adopted. It doesn't have to be the same standard for everyone, but the more there is in common the better it works. Obviously for language - you have to speak the same language, or the magic of transfer/energy exchange is largely lost.

Ritual is the basis of a lot of magic. When we speak or write, we are engaged in ritual at some level, because we are conforming to an accepted standard practice.

This is why I think that communication in written or spoken form is magic - especially considering with speech, all the steps that are involved from taking a concept (thoughts) in my mind as a mini-thought form, rendering that down into vibrations in the air, through the instruments of our brain and voice, and then rendered into approximate facsimiles of the thoughtform in the mind of the listener having interpreted physical vibrations of their ear; or the more cognitive act of reading words that have been written by another.

With words, ones audience needs to have subscribed to the same "ritual" form of communication (obviously language).

Also to remind - that older unchanging, so called dead languages, are used for more "precise" purposes as the meaning of the words is invariant and rituals will be given or encoded in "dead" languages so they work the same through time.


John..

[modwiz]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
Modwiz, did you ever achieve what was termed 'revery' in the Dianetics book?
(I read that it was the engrams that stopped a person from achieving full clarity of vision and hence a perfect photographic memory)
Or did you unravel your engrams with the inner eye only?
(I could never get that 'revery' thing to work, but then maybe the inner eye will suffice...)

Here is how it worked for me. I picked up the book Dianetics at someones house. Just opened the book randomly and began reading. At most I read a few pages. IIRC, and it was a basic explanation of an engram. That was that, never held the book again. I used to have a long train commute going to work. 2 hours. I would nap/think/process thoughts. Some of these thoughts would make me break out in a sweat and my breathing would increase. Often these were inner altercations with people. It was then I saw "the crazy" in my behavior. Here I was sitting comfortably on a train, completely safe and unmolested, yet my body was reacting to what was playing in my head. The body either does not know the difference between physical and non-physical or consciousness is doing very misunderstood things with reality. Whatever the case, I learned to "mind my mind". The natural stress of my forebears was not mine. I was creating things in my head. I was having fights with people not present. For me, that was crazy behavior. To release adrenaline into my system while sitting safe and sound was inexcusable for me. It still happens from time to time but is caught almost as it begins. I sense packages being sent into my field to produce stress. Something wants a meal. Don Juan speaks eloquently on this.

The engram concept is brilliant in its simplicity and impact for greater clarity. IMO, Scientology was infiltrated when its power to change the world for the better was perceived. With Ron gone it had no protector.

The great lights of humanity have been few. Even the closest disciples often end up not "getting it". If they do they will be bought off (in which case they didn't really "get it") or will be killed. Proximity to greatness seems of little consequence. It doesn't rub off. You can't just get some on you.

[Ultima Thule]

Modwiz, you in short made a comparison of off-world-subtle bodies, some overly mental, some balanced.

I´m thinking a possibility of Yin-Yang-polarity between emotional and mental bodies - in the end, is the capacity of the mental body and characteristics of it limited to the capacity of emotional body? The very thing with the emotional body, that can be seen as a big problem, ie. the uncontrolled firing of it, could it be the indicator of its enormous capacity that can parallel and accompany the mental body into unprecedented heights? The harmony between the two raising their frequency together - could it be what is the very potential in us humans?

UT

[Gekko]

I wonder if there is a connection between excess visceral fat and the emotional/pain body, citing a possible connection to stress and cortisol in its accumulation? Furthermore, a connection to a particular chakra (sacral chakra comes to mind)?

An excess of visceral fat is known as central obesity, or "belly fat", in which the abdomen protrudes excessively. Excess visceral fat is also linked to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, inflammatory diseases, and other obesity-related diseases.

[modwiz]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
Modwiz, you in short made a comparison of off-world-subtle bodies, some overly mental, some balanced.

I´m thinking a possibility of Yin-Yang-polarity between emotional and mental bodies - in the end, is the capacity of the mental body and characteristics of it limited to the capacity of emotional body? The very thing with the emotional body, that can be seen as a big problem, ie. the uncontrolled firing of it, could it be the indicator of its enormous capacity that can parallel and accompany the mental body into unprecedented heights? The harmony between the two raising their frequency together - could it be what is the very potential in us humans?

UT

IMO, yes. The emotional/mental balance is where the richness is. My example would be the mental body as an artist renders things in exquisite detail. Black and white/grayscale. Everything is there, except color. Emotions are the color, the flavor the scent. I would say the five physical senses align with he emotional body strongly with vision being a very mental sense but we all know the sight can evoke powerful emotional response.

As mentioned in my post, the proper balance/focus or lensing as I like to call it, creates a pathway to higher states. Two notes producing a chord which is greater than the sum of its parts.

[mosquito]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
.... Because English has loan words from many languages ......

Actually it has little else !!!!!

An excellent post thank you. On the same topic, we fall into all kinds of traps when we attempt to translate between languages of radically different families. When the opportunity arises on this thread to illustrate what I mean (which it surely will) I'll attempt to throw some light on the matter. But here's an example ....

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post349306

[modwiz]

Posted by Gekko (here)
I wonder if there is a connection between excess visceral fat and the emotional/pain body, citing a possible connection to stress and cortisol in its accumulation? Furthermore, a connection to a particular chakra (sacral chakra comes to mind)?

An excess of visceral fat is known as central obesity, or "belly fat", in which the abdomen protrudes excessively. Excess visceral fat is also linked to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, inflammatory diseases, and other obesity-related diseases.

Your mind is working well. The sacral chakra has two homes in the body. In Western bodies it is said to find its home in the part of the body where women have their ovaries. This placement is more about (pro)creativity/sexuality and has obvious ties with the emotional body through the intimacy sex can produce. Furthermore, orange is a mixture of red and yellow. Yellow associated with the 3rd chakra and lower intellect and emotional body. The 3rd charka is where things get messy.
In Eastern esoteric traditions, the second chakra aligns with the pancreas/spleen. The pancreas produces insulin and it the organ that produces diabetes when stresses or unbalanced.
I am of the mind that once one widens ones perspective that regarding the 2nd chakra as the gonadal/pancreas/speen chakra works well. However, there are people who will choose one over the other. I once worked on a woman for chakra energy work. Things were very scattered with her 2nd chakra. I shared with her that her orange energy did not know whether it wanted to reside in her uterine area or spleen. She confided in me she was considering being a celibate.

Your wondering about a connection with what you mention is very sound to me. Body types will often shift dramatically with a shift in a subtle body. Matter follows energy.

[Ultima Thule]

The thing in a nutshell with the visceral fat is whether you are sensitive to insulin(insulin effective so to say) or rather leaning towards insulin resistance. This will determine what you will do with the energy that you receive from your nutrition - concerning especially carbohydrates(refined kind). Whether you will utilize them (and have plenty of energy available for action and stay lean) or store them as fat(get fat, have no energy) is derived by your insulin level. This will escalate into other hormonal functions either functioning well or being down regulated into hibernation mode.

I haven´t found a reasonable explanation as to why certain individual is more inclined to insulin resistance - especially when thinking an infant will copy this tendency from his/her mother from the time of the gestation period, therefore not being genetic, but rather energetic? So I´m more than willing to be with you guys on this - the emotional body being a major factor in determining how your physical body is functioning. I would think emotional body would be something very much replicated from the mother. Emotion-carrying substances are also known to cross into the child via umbilical cord. As the scientist-fellows in Viveks recommended video(earlier post here) say(my words): a higher frequency determines how the lower, material levels play out.

An excellent video by the way, spelling out a lot of substance into homeopathy among other things.

UT

[AwakeInADream]

Posted by modwiz (here)
The engram concept is brilliant in its simplicity and impact for greater clarity. IMO, Scientology was infiltrated when its power to change the world for the better was perceived. With Ron gone it had no protector.

I agree! Mr Hubbard sure knew his stuff.

Here's a link to the book for anyone that might want to take a look:
http://scientology-london.com/extra/...tal_Health.pdf

[9eagle9]

I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."


That is no longer belief then, that is knowing wrought from experience. I agree that people who can't see the experience tend to dismiss it.

For my part I get attacked for having the experience in the first place....lol. But that doesn't do anything to the experience. Or magically make it all go away.

We are metaphysical in nature. Science gets wrong footed about that part that can't be explained by material science. WE are in part material and science serves us well , very well on our material levels.

Psychological sciences are somewhat limited by their own ceilings but hasn't done a half bad job if one can see through the abuse rampant there that exists everyplace else. We would be poorer off without it.

Spirit doesn't exist in some people. They may have a consciousness but that's it. There's no ultimate animation to them or if there is they've disconnected from it. To them material science is all that is needed. Some people are just a brain, operating a bag of flesh. Material science is the only thing they require. They have no connection to anything else.

For the metaphysical being a little more is required. The metaphysical being doesn't dismiss material science nor even use it to explain the non material. You can't. There are similarities there. In the natural world though, the material world, the natural world can be a translator of what occurs on the 'unseen' non-material level.

For people whose metaphysical density pretty much starts and stops at the consciousness level no much more is required than an understanding of consciousness.

The difference between higher intelligence and higher academia.

Vivek's threads on psyche have clearly demonstrated for me on a material level why some people can't experience 'unseen' things. They were literally not created, equipped, built, designed, however you want to put it, to do so. we are then asking certain people to learn to play baseball when they don't have any arms to throw or catch with.

Which causes conflict. They want to know why some are seeing unseen things, and we are wondering why the hell they can't.

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
What is often theory, belief, or superstition to one can be hard fact to another. The difference being in training, practice, and disciplined inquiry. I have occasionally been ridiculed for my "beliefs" by people who have their own beliefs based on piecing ideas and anecdotes together rather than actually doing the hard work necessary to discover for themselves what is real and what is not. These people generally fall into the category of those who consider themselves "scientific" and "rational". One of my closest friends is in that crowd.

I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."

[9eagle9]

You mean insulating one's self from what is bothering you? Whether it is external or internal?


Yes. Diabetes itself is a symptom of emotional distress.

Something that is bothering you regardless if you are cognizant of it or not will create stress. Stress creates cortisol. Cortisol creates the conditions for fat.

Behaviors such as patterns of comfort eating and comfort starving come from this. Conditions like your body apparently defying the laws of caloric energy. You can diet as much as you want, and eat 400 calories a day and burn off 4000 of them, and your excess fat doesn't go away. That means one's fat is not purely a physical event from unhealthy eating, or over indulgence.

Posted by Gekko (here)
I wonder if there is a connection between excess visceral fat and the emotional/pain body, citing a possible connection to stress and cortisol in its accumulation? Furthermore, a connection to a particular chakra (sacral chakra comes to mind)?

An excess of visceral fat is known as central obesity, or "belly fat", in which the abdomen protrudes excessively. Excess visceral fat is also linked to type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, inflammatory diseases, and other obesity-related diseases.

[soleil]

thank you all for this thread. i am trying to grasp the concepts, and i understand the context.

on a side note: I once said to him,"No, I don't believe in things I cannot see. I believe in things that YOU cannot see."
best quote i read today.