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Thread: What is Truth?

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    United States Avalon Member jagman's Avatar
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    Default What is Truth?

    What is Truth??? My truth, Your truth, Alternative truth,
    MSM truth, All the Gurus on the touring circuit truth, The Right's truth,The Left's
    truth, The Conservative,Liberal and Libertarian truth. Gods truth or Atheist's truth. To many truth's for me to keep up with.

    Webster Dictionary, definition of truth.

    aarchaic: fidelity, constancy

    b: sincerity in action, character, and utterance

    a (1): the state of being the case : fact (2): the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3)often capitalized: a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality

    b: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>

    c: the body of true statements and propositions

    a: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality

    c: fidelity to an original or to a standard

    For me, Truth is ever evolving through the perspective of the individual telling his truth.
    Our life's experiences, Education, Our goals and Aspirations and Emotion's have an effect on what truth's we accept and on what truth's we reject....
    If you disagree with my truth, That's ok lol I'm sure you will find your own truth.
    Last edited by jagman; 24th January 2013 at 20:06.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Great question - I have pondered this for a long time and come up with a conclusion (my "own" truth, of course - not necessarily applicable universally )

    The conclusion I came to was that, for most people, the definite article definitely does not apply. They just need "a" truth to work with - it can be anything - political truth, religious truth etc.

    I also thought a lot about the "flat earthers" and how we mock them. However, when you think about it, within the context of general consciousness back then the earth WAS flat for all practical purposes. Because it was a practical truth it became a philosophical one as well. Our 'truth' is probably no more true than theirs relatively speaking so their view is unjustly dismissed.

    A problem only arises when things develop and the 'truth' that underpins your world view stops being useful. Thats when it gets binned and another one is found. Associated philosophical revisions then follow, but much later. (e.g. when navigators started travelling long distances and contemplated the spherical nature of the world, people's ideas about God and his role in creation changed radically in the centuries to follow).

    9/11 truth is of no practical use to most people, so it hasn't even reached the first of those two hurdles yet. Maybe it never will, however it's likely that some kind of revision to the "trust in authority" truth is more generally on the cards since it's becoming widely apparent that that one is a practical menace.

    So there you go - truth turns out to be a subjective phenomenon after all as you, jagman, allude to. We all see the same thing but interpret it differently. Who's to say that the 'thing" has an absolute nature at all ?

    Quantum theory at least says it doesn't - things are what we say they are and everyone's allowed a different opinion !!

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    Unhappy Re: What is Truth?

    Truth is the knowledge that brings peace to your hearth, light to your life and a smile to your face.
    Last edited by Camilo; 24th January 2013 at 21:02.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Hey Jagman,

    If there is an ultimate, absolute truth, the meaning of everything, no one knows what it is.

    As I said on another thread, the truth just is what it is, whatever it may be.

    Even using the word "truth" is a bit misleading. How come a word could describe something that can´t be described, something that very probably is much beyond the capacity of our primitive brains?

    The word "truth" that we use in our daily lives, is nothing but a distorted reduction.

    There are no factual truths in this world. All there is are beliefs and guesses. People pick up the best guesses and beliefs and label them as "truth".

    Science is just calculated guesses. Religion is just beliefs. Both of them are just silly attempts to fill in the gaps left by the unknown.

    Anyway, I believe the most noble and honorable life is lived by those who dedicate it to the search of the pure truth, even knowing that very probably they will never find it.

    Is there a greater objective in life other than spending it trying to find its meaning?

    About what people call personal truths, I´d rather call them personal convictions or ideals, because truth, by definition, is immutable, while ideals and convictions can change (for better or worse) along the life of an individual.

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 24th January 2013 at 21:28.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    It might be easier to demonstrate what isn't truth
    Just turn on your television.

    Everything that you watch is fiction, from the news, the fake reality shows, to the movies.



    I guess one can sum it up as truth is just a aspect of illusion.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Truth is everything that isn't false...

    finding truth is confirming it isn't false...

    faith is knowing truth without evidence of falsehood...

    in Truth, I don't have a clue and yet that is false...

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    Default Re: What is Truth?



    Love the topic, very important. I wrote my grad paper on this subject, I'll try and find it and give a link.

    Peaceful Journeys Wookie
    "The Perception of an Illusion is Deception, even when you believed it was real! Perception of Deception is not an Illusion at all!" Carl Stoynoff

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Simply put? It's complicated. In this world of lies it is hard to distinct fact from fiction. Each of us have our own "truths" which usually are determined by our own moral compasses. If something rings true to you then it is your truth even if it doesn't hold the same meaning to others. The term truther is funny, because it actually sounds better than a conspiracy nut. Then again the latter word has a negative connotation, unlike the word truther.

    Actually I think that on this level consciousness we just cannot even understand what the word "truth" really means. It's mostly just guessing.

    I'm not even sure if there is an "absolute" truth. If there is then it is all that is.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    I think there needs to be a truer word.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Like my father always like to say "there is your truth, there's my truth and the real truth, which is somewhere in the middle".

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    i was always partial to this explaination.... https://youtube.com/watch?v=vQB2cKVk7lE

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Like some would say truth is the absence of fiction...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    Like some would say truth is the absence of fiction...
    Perspective, for your truth might be my fiction.
    "The Perception of an Illusion is Deception, even when you believed it was real! Perception of Deception is not an Illusion at all!" Carl Stoynoff

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Quote Posted by Wookie (here)
    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    Like some would say truth is the absence of fiction...
    Perspective, for your truth might be my fiction.
    yes, and my fiction might be your truth ... only here ( at Avalon) we both can co-exist in the digital world without division , everyone enjoys the freedom of their own perspective ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    If one is searching for truth in the mind, the answer will be subjective and unreliable. If one has the grace to receive Truth as a 'knowing', the answer to the OP question is: It is ineffable. 'Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know.'

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Here are a bunch of quotes from William James's 'Pragmatism' which might be useful to this discussion:

    Quote truth is ONE SPECIES OF GOOD, and not, as is usually supposed, a category distinct from good, and co-ordinate with it.

    all things cohere and adhere to each other SOMEHOW

    Thus the lowest grade of universe would be a world of mere WITHNESS, of which the parts were only strung together by the conjunction ‘and.’'

    My thesis now is this, that OUR FUNDAMENTAL WAYS OF THINKING ABOUT THINGS ARE DISCOVERIES OF EXCEEDINGLY REMOTE ANCESTORS, WHICH HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PRESERVE THEMSELVES THROUGHOUT THE EXPERIENCE OF ALL SUBSEQUENT TIME.

    pragmatism gets her general notion of truth as something essentially bound up with the way in which one moment in our experience may lead us towards other moments which it will be worth while to have been led to.

    Truth lives, in fact, for the most part on a credit system. Our thoughts and beliefs ‘pass,’ so long as nothing challenges them, just as bank-notes pass so long as nobody refuses them. But this all points to direct face-to-face verifications somewhere, without which the fabric of truth collapses like a financial system with no cash basis whatever. You accept my verification of one thing, I yours of another. We trade on each other’s truth. But beliefs verified concretely by SOMEBODY are the posts of the whole superstructure.

    Verifiability of wheels and weights and pendulum is as good as verification.

    On pragmatic principles we cannot reject any hypothesis if consequences useful to life flow from it.

    We all do wish to minimize the insecurity of the universe; we are and ought to be unhappy when we regard it as exposed to every enemy and open to every life- destroying draft. Nevertheless there are unhappy men who think the salvation of the world impossible. Theirs is the doctrine known as pessimism.
    Optimism in turn would be the doctrine that thinks the world's salvation inevitable.

    Pragmatism is uncomfortable away from facts. Rationalism is comfortable only in the presence of abstractions.

    But most possibles are not bare, they are concretely grounded, or well-grounded, as we say. What does this mean pragmatically? It means, not only that there are no preventive conditions present, but that some of the conditions of production of the possible thing actually are here. Thus a concretely possible chicken means: (1) that the idea of chicken contains no essential self-contradiction; (2) that no boys, skunks, or other enemies are about; and (3) that at least an actual egg exists. Possible chicken means actual egg—plus actual sitting hen, or incubator, or what not. As the actual conditions approach completeness the chicken becomes a better-and- better-grounded possibility. When the conditions are entirely complete, it ceases to be a possibility, and turns into an actual fact.

    The greatest enemy of any one of our truths may be the rest of our truths. Truths have once for all this desperate instinct of self-preservation and of desire to extinguish whatever contradicts them. […] They carry supernumerary features, and these it is that clash so.

    She [pragmatism] has in fact no prejudices whatever, no obstructive dogmas, no rigid canons of what shall count as proof. She is completely genial. She will entertain any hypothesis, she will consider any evidence.

    She [pragmatism] has in fact no prejudices whatever, no obstructive dogmas, no rigid canons of what shall count as proof. She is completely genial. She will entertain any hypothesis, she will consider any evidence.

    Spiritualism says that mind not only witnesses and records things, but also runs and operates them: the world being thus guided, not by its lower, but by its higher element.

    Even to-day science and philosophy are still laboriously trying to part fancies from realities in our experience; and in primitive times they made only the most incipient distinctions in this line.

    But now if the new kinds of scientific ‘thing,’ the corpuscular and etheric world, were essentially more ‘true,’ why should they have excited so much criticism within the body of science itself? Scientific logicians are saying on every hand that these entities and their determinations, however definitely conceived, should not be held for literally real. It is AS IF they existed; but in reality they are like co-ordinates or logarithms, only artificial short-cuts for taking us from one part to another of experience's flux. We can cipher fruitfully with them; they serve us wonderfully; but we must not be their dupes.

    Pragmatism, on the other hand, asks its usual question. "Grant an idea or belief to be true," it says, "what concrete difference will its being true make in anyone's actual life? How will the truth be realized? What experiences will be different from those which would obtain if the belief were false? What, in short, is the truth's cash-value in experiential terms?"

    The truth of an idea is not a stagnant property inherent in it. Truth HAPPENS to an idea. It BECOMES true, is MADE true by events. Its verity is in fact an event, a process: the process namely of its verifying itself, its veri-FICATION. Its validity is the process of its valid-ATION.

    Let me begin by reminding you of the fact that the possession of true thoughts means everywhere the possession of invaluable instruments of action; and that our duty to gain truth, so far from being a blank command from out of the blue, or a 'stunt' self- imposed by our intellect, can account for itself by excellent practical reasons.
    The importance to human life of having true beliefs about matters of fact is a thing too notorious. We live in a world of realities that can be infinitely useful or infinitely harmful. Ideas that tell us which of them to expect count as the true ideas in all this primary sphere of verification, and the pursuit of such ideas is a primary human duty. The possession of truth, so far from being here an end in itself, is only a preliminary means towards other vital satisfactions.

    Our ideas must agree with realities, be such realities concrete or abstract, be they facts or be they principles, under penalty of endless inconsistency and frustration.
    I firmly disbelieve, myself, that our human experience is the highest form of experience extant in the universe. I believe rather that we stand in much the same relation to the whole of the universe as our canine and feline pets do to the whole of human life. They inhabit our drawing-rooms and libraries. They take part in scenes of whose significance they have no inkling. They are merely tangent to curves of history the beginnings and ends and forms of which pass wholly beyond their ken. So we are tangents to the wider life of things. But, just as many of the dog's and cat's ideals coincide with our ideals, and the dogs and cats have daily living proof of the fact, so we may well believe, on the proofs that religious experience affords, that higher powers exist and are at work to save the world on ideal lines similar to our own.


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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Quote Posted by Wookie (here)
    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    Like some would say truth is the absence of fiction...
    Perspective, for your truth might be my fiction.
    As Adam from mythbusters used to say, "I reject your reality and substitute my own", thats actually pretty good.

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Here is three especially good quotes about the truth.

    “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”

    - Gloria Steinem

    "I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant."

    -Martin Luther King, Jr.

    “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”

    -Buddha

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    Avalon Member truthseekerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    All paths lead in one direction. Some have a few more sidetracks along the way but everyone can learn from all these things and would be a more well-rounded person for doing so. By being closed minded you lose much of the experience of life. One should never rely on one path as being the way, the ultimate. For in all paths there lies truth and in all paths there lies falsehood.

    You must spend your life sifting through them to find what is your truth -- to discover what you know to be truth for yourself. It does not have to necessarily be truth for others and you must accept this. It is not an easy path to be different. Even Pilate asked Jesus: "What is truth?"
    Unity Consciousness
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    Free your mind, and open your heart to LOVE.
    You'll then become enlightened able to just BE.

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    Default Re: What is Truth?

    Tasting the cup of truth even when the world says its taste is not true leads one to resonate with a passion so true that no one can pull you away from its grip on you !
    Last edited by GloriousPoetry; 25th January 2013 at 16:57.
    Sublimating that push in life that gives you the rhythmic experience of living despite it all.........

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