Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

[donk]

soooooooo...anyway, was strolling through--thinking about the veil lifting, the synchronicities occuring in my life all have to do with the smartest, closest to being awake attacking just at the brink of understanding the insidious program, the bad idea, the "being right" program...or the inability to let go, to take responsility....not sure how to 'splain it.

It's like they got the red pill in their mouth, but refuse to swallow it, maybe afraid that believing the truth in it will make it so?

I don't know that youtube here is appropriate, but what astrid posted here...Max Igan explained it how I wish I could have. I still have not mastered my emotions when it comes to being misunderstood.

I had a hard time deciphering the response 9e9 to sleepy, but can you entertain the idea you maybe your expression there was not as successful (assuming you were attempting to communicate something with sleepy)?

I been working on where to draw the line of responsibility on the delivery, versus the receiver of the message. I didn't feel a breaking of down of 9e9's interaction is a great direction to go in (we kinda been there already), I mean this post to be tangent in the direction toward a solution of something it (and ff's post) brought up,: the successful transmission of important lessons.

...of course, I may be making absolutley no sense, actually being an example of what I see as a "problem"...as can tend to happen when I get going...

[Hervé]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Typically, people cry for help when they ask you to empathize with something -- they are misunderstanding how to be empathetic. They are really asking you to wallow in an emotion with them, they want you to bleed with them, or bleed for something. This is not necessary, and it appears that many people are inadvertently doing this. They want to see if you will bleed, and when you refuse to bleed it is misinterpreted as being callous or insensitive. In this way, this method is manipulative and it is commonly unacknowledged as being such. Offense may or may not be taken, but defense surely is. This is evident through deflecting -- protecting some aspect of yourself that wants to bleed, it wants you to give away your energy and to get others to do the same. Reinforcing these habits is not a good thing.


Big lesson for me recently...I had no idea that so many people claiming to seek their power want to be victims. They don't feel safe unless they are a victim and are treated like one. I know that there are people who are victims. But it was not until recently that I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim....they don't feel safe. But the flyer mind is essentially a victim/abuser relationship so looking at it from that angle....it makes sense. But if you don't re-inforce those behaviors you are seen as the abuser.

Most of rightfully cannot see ourselves doing something so damaging as to wallow in each other's wounds. That is why I got out of one [on?] one healing with people. They wanted wound wallowing, for us to fall to the floor and thrash in each other's misery and I can't do that. There is an essential dignity to becoming a whole person and its not present in those sorts of situations.

I come away more alarmed than ever at the state of humanity but ..I would imagine that is what the 'their' mind would want.

Again by our choice.

Some of it is "their" mind but it's also from individuals' mind. In one school of thought (Dianetics and Scientology) that mechanism 9eagle9 describes above is called a "Service Facsimile" and is the result of an initial computation which an individual concluded to (and usually as logical as an oxymoron or a 1984's "War is Peace") and later was handed down to the unconscious to let it run on full automatic without any awareness of it anymore.

Here are a few of the definitions of that mechanism:

These are called “service facsimiles.” “Service” because they serve him. "Facsimiles” because they are in mental image picture form. They explain his disabilities as well. The facsimile part is actually a self-installed disability that “explains” how he is not responsible for being unable to cope. So he is not wrong for not coping. Part of the “package” is to be right by making wrong. The service facsimile is therefore a picture containing an explanation of self condition and also a fixed method of making others wrong.

This is actually part of a chain of incidents which the individual uses to invite sympathy or cooperation on the part of the environment. One uses engrams to handle himself and others and the environment after one has himself conceived that he has failed to handle himself, others and the general environment.

Every time you fail, you pick up this facsimile and become sick or sadly noble. It’s your explanation to yourself and the world as to how and why you failed. It once got you sympathy.

It is simply a time when you tried to do something and were hurt or failed and got sympathy for it. Then afterwards when you were hurt or failed and wanted an explanation, you used it. And if you didn’t succeed in getting sympathy for it, you used it so hard it became a psychosomatic illness.

That facsimile which the preclear uses to apologize for his failures. In other words, it is used to make others wrong and procure their cooperation in the survival of the preclear. If the preclear well cannot achieve survival, he attempts an illness or disability as a survival computation. The workability and necessity of the service facsimile is only superficially useful. The service facsimile is an action method of withdrawing from a state of beingness to a state of not beingness and is intended to persuade others to coax the individual back into a state of beingness.

That computation generated by the preclear (not the bank/"their"/reactive mind) to make self right and others wrong, to dominate or escape domination and enhance own survival and injure that of others.

Since such are considered of the utmost survival importance by the individual... it's like trying to get a bone out of a very hungry Great Dane's jaws or a seal from under a polar bear's paw

[9eagle9]

but can you entertain the idea you maybe your expression there was not as successful (assuming you were attempting to communicate something with sleepy)?

[Beren]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
but can you entertain the idea you maybe your expression there was not as successful (assuming you were attempting to communicate something with sleepy)?

I don't understand your English here...


Say this again

[T Smith]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)

I hate to say it:I may be shrinking from it because I don't 'feel' like it...lol.

That truly was an lol.. Back to my seat, for now.

[SilentFeathers]

I wrote this March 10, 2008, I don't want to derail the thread, but somehow, someway, I somewhat think this may be a part of what we are talking about....(perhaps just a little bit anyway

Dizzy Drizzle, Stumbling Clouds, and Singing Crickets in the Treetops



Never thought I'd see the day that crickets were singing in the treetops, or hearing the drizzle complain of being dizzy. When I seen a cloud stumble, that was about all I could take, I knew I must be dreaming....

So I tried to wake up out of that dream and the crickets stopped singing. Sadness over came me and I drifted back into my dream world so the music would continue. I would just have to accept the facts with the drizzle and clouds.

As I walked through the forest in tune with the crickets I noticed the bark on all the trees were moving. They were in tune also and seem to be rolling with joy and vibrating to a slow but steady heartbeat. In fact, everything I looked at seemed to be moving and vibrating, for I must have entered the musical forest.

Finally reaching the edge of the forest I looked past it and there was no edge, just black empty space and stars floating all about. I knew I must of reached one corner of the earth and didn't want to fall off. Yet in my mind I knew everything was in a circle, maybe that’s why I couldn't see the edge.

The next thing I knew I was at the creek getting a drink of water, wow! Was that water ever good! I must have drunk at least a bucket full. The rocks were tumbling in the creek bottom and rolling with the current of the water, I said hello to them and began to continue onward.... it seemed my journey was only just beginning.

I was just about to step out into space and use the stars as stepping-stones to skip across the galaxy and my stupid alarm clock went off and woke me up. What a bummer! I got up and ran to the bathroom as fast as I could, my bladder was full and about to burst. It was then I realized I shouldn't have drunk that bucket full of water while I was at that creek!

SilentFeathers....

Is this "MY" mind and the matrix?

[aikisaw]

[QUOTE=Amzer Zo;627711]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Typically, people cry for help when they ask you to empathize with something -- they are misunderstanding how to be empathetic. They are really asking you to wallow in an emotion with them, they want you to bleed with them, or bleed for something. This is not necessary, and it appears that many people are inadvertently doing this. They want to see if you will bleed, and when you refuse to bleed it is misinterpreted as being callous or insensitive. In this way, this method is manipulative and it is commonly unacknowledged as being such. Offense may or may not be taken, but defense surely is. This is evident through deflecting -- protecting some aspect of yourself that wants to bleed, it wants you to give away your energy and to get others to do the same. Reinforcing these habits is not a good thing.


Big lesson for me recently...I had no idea that so many people claiming to seek their power want to be victims. They don't feel safe unless they are a victim and are treated like one. I know that there are people who are victims. But it was not until recently that I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim....they don't feel safe. But the flyer mind is essentially a victim/abuser relationship so looking at it from that angle....it makes sense. But if you don't re-inforce those behaviors you are seen as the abuser.

Most of rightfully cannot see ourselves doing something so damaging as to wallow in each other's wounds. That is why I got out of one [on?] one healing with people. They wanted wound wallowing, for us to fall to the floor and thrash in each other's misery and I can't do that. There is an essential dignity to becoming a whole person and its not present in those sorts of situations.

I come away more alarmed than ever at the state of humanity but ..I would imagine that is what the 'their' mind would want.

Again by our choice.

Some of it is "their" mind but it's also from individuals' mind. In one school of thought (Dianetics and Scientology) that mechanism 9eagle9 describes above is called a "Service Facsimile" and is the result of an initial computation which an individual concluded to (and usually as logical as an oxymoron or a 1984's "War is Peace") and later was handed down to the unconscious to let it run on full automatic without any awareness of it anymore.

Here are a few of the definitions of that mechanism:

These are called “service facsimiles.” “Service” because they serve him. "Facsimiles” because they are in mental image picture form. They explain his disabilities as well. The facsimile part is actually a self-installed disability that “explains” how he is not responsible for being unable to cope. So he is not wrong for not coping. Part of the “package” is to be right by making wrong. The service facsimile is therefore a picture containing an explanation of self condition and also a fixed method of making others wrong.

This is actually part of a chain of incidents which the individual uses to invite sympathy or cooperation on the part of the environment. One uses engrams to handle himself and others and the environment after one has himself conceived that he has failed to handle himself, others and the general environment.

Every time you fail, you pick up this facsimile and become sick or sadly noble. It’s your explanation to yourself and the world as to how and why you failed. It once got you sympathy.

Very helpful post Amzer ZO.

9eagle9 had mentioned in an earlier post many of us had trained or practiced something in your life that helped to shed the flier mind. You might not even know you did this.

You highlighted 9eagle9's line here " I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim.....they don't feel safe"

I could go out at times and walk into a room full of strangers and they would be instantly upset.??? I was the scroogy mckilljoy of the whole party. People would get up and walk to the other side of the room. I haven't even said a word at this point. I have had friends comment about it. I never had any idea why and would make a joke about...how to win friends and influence people. Not every time but often enough that I and others noticed. The other thing that happened is you would be in a conversation with three or more people and one of them would try to align the others against you. It did not have to a important conversation it could be about what restaurant had the best cheeseburger.

Yes, I tried more deodorant and breath mints that didn't work

It all clicked when I read your post here.
I am understanding correctly that a preclear is someone with the flier mind.

[Hervé]

Posted by aikisaw (here)
[...]

Yes, I tried more deodorant and breath mints that didn't work

... wasn't even something you said!

From what I can gather, it seems you have a tendency to run into groups of people who are the "property" of a single "Big Head?"

It all clicked when I read your post here.

I am understanding correctly that a preclear is someone with the flier mind.

Pretty much so, when I play with words, I get the "Fight or Flight" thing which leads to "Flight" ---> "Flyer Mind" ---> "Flyer"... that would be the mind which will do anything to make one avoid confronting one's mind content at any cost... and a "preclear" is and individual who is not yet "Clear" of the influencing content of its mind and therefore still in the grip of its stranglehold.

[modwiz]

[QUOTE=aikisaw;627820]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Typically, people cry for help when they ask you to empathize with something -- they are misunderstanding how to be empathetic. They are really asking you to wallow in an emotion with them, they want you to bleed with them, or bleed for something. This is not necessary, and it appears that many people are inadvertently doing this. They want to see if you will bleed, and when you refuse to bleed it is misinterpreted as being callous or insensitive. In this way, this method is manipulative and it is commonly unacknowledged as being such. Offense may or may not be taken, but defense surely is. This is evident through deflecting -- protecting some aspect of yourself that wants to bleed, it wants you to give away your energy and to get others to do the same. Reinforcing these habits is not a good thing.


Big lesson for me recently...I had no idea that so many people claiming to seek their power want to be victims. They don't feel safe unless they are a victim and are treated like one. I know that there are people who are victims. But it was not until recently that I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim....they don't feel safe. But the flyer mind is essentially a victim/abuser relationship so looking at it from that angle....it makes sense. But if you don't re-inforce those behaviors you are seen as the abuser.

Most of rightfully cannot see ourselves doing something so damaging as to wallow in each other's wounds. That is why I got out of one [on?] one healing with people. They wanted wound wallowing, for us to fall to the floor and thrash in each other's misery and I can't do that. There is an essential dignity to becoming a whole person and its not present in those sorts of situations.

I come away more alarmed than ever at the state of humanity but ..I would imagine that is what the 'their' mind would want.

Again by our choice.

Some of it is "their" mind but it's also from individuals' mind. In one school of thought (Dianetics and Scientology) that mechanism 9eagle9 describes above is called a "Service Facsimile" and is the result of an initial computation which an individual concluded to (and usually as logical as an oxymoron or a 1984's "War is Peace") and later was handed down to the unconscious to let it run on full automatic without any awareness of it anymore.

Here are a few of the definitions of that mechanism:

These are called “service facsimiles.” “Service” because they serve him. "Facsimiles” because they are in mental image picture form. They explain his disabilities as well. The facsimile part is actually a self-installed disability that “explains” how he is not responsible for being unable to cope. So he is not wrong for not coping. Part of the “package” is to be right by making wrong. The service facsimile is therefore a picture containing an explanation of self condition and also a fixed method of making others wrong.

This is actually part of a chain of incidents which the individual uses to invite sympathy or cooperation on the part of the environment. One uses engrams to handle himself and others and the environment after one has himself conceived that he has failed to handle himself, others and the general environment.

Every time you fail, you pick up this facsimile and become sick or sadly noble. It’s your explanation to yourself and the world as to how and why you failed. It once got you sympathy.

Very helpful post Amzer ZO.

9eagle9 had mentioned in an earlier post many of us had trained or practiced something in your life that helped to shed the flier mind. You might not even know you did this.

You highlighted 9eagle9's line here " I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim.....they don't feel safe"

I could go out at times and walk into a room full of strangers and they would be instantly upset.??? I was the scroogy mckilljoy of the whole party. People would get up and walk to the other side of the room. I haven't even said a word at this point. I have had friends comment about it. I never had any idea why and would make a joke about...how to win friends and influence people. Not every time but often enough that I and others noticed. The other thing that happened is you would be in a conversation with three or more people and one of them would try to align the others against you. It did not have to a important conversation it could be about what restaurant had the best cheeseburger.

Yes, I tried more deodorant and breath mints that didn't work

It all clicked when I read your post here.
I am understanding correctly that a preclear is someone with the flier mind.

I make all of my personal conversations one on one because of the dynamic of "ganging up". This is the Matrix self policing itself with the usual dupes. In talks I have given this dynamic seldom takes place. Usually there is only one heckler and maybe one in agreement. This is where ones skills in public speaking are important. It is an art, to be sure.

[aikisaw]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by aikisaw (here)
[...]

Yes, I tried more deodorant and breath mints that didn't work

... wasn't even something you said!

From what I can gather, it seems you have a tendency to run into groups of people who are the "property" of a single "Big Head?"

It all clicked when I read your post here.

I am understanding correctly that a preclear is someone with the flier mind.

Pretty much so, when I play with words, I get the "Fight or Flight" thing which leads to "Flight" ---> "Flyer Mind" ---> "Flyer"... that would be the mind which will do anything to make one avoid confronting one's mind content at any cost... and a "preclear" is and individual who is not yet "Clear" of the influencing content of its mind and therefore still in the grip of its stranglehold.

Thank you for including the link to your previous post in your reply. I had read your post before thanked you for it and listened to the first radio interview. I understand it better now that I have more understanding. I wanted to listen to part2 and forgot about it as this thread zoomed along.

[Hervé]

WTF?

... unsubscribed!

...

[aikisaw]

[QUOTE=modwiz;627872]

Posted by aikisaw (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Typically, people cry for help when they ask you to empathize with something -- they are misunderstanding how to be empathetic. They are really asking you to wallow in an emotion with them, they want you to bleed with them, or bleed for something. This is not necessary, and it appears that many people are inadvertently doing this. They want to see if you will bleed, and when you refuse to bleed it is misinterpreted as being callous or insensitive. In this way, this method is manipulative and it is commonly unacknowledged as being such. Offense may or may not be taken, but defense surely is. This is evident through deflecting -- protecting some aspect of yourself that wants to bleed, it wants you to give away your energy and to get others to do the same. Reinforcing these habits is not a good thing.




Big lesson for me recently...I had no idea that so many people claiming to seek their power want to be victims. They don't feel safe unless they are a victim and are treated like one. I know that there are people who are victims. But it was not until recently that I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim....they don't feel safe. But the flyer mind is essentially a victim/abuser relationship so looking at it from that angle....it makes sense. But if you don't re-inforce those behaviors you are seen as the abuser.

Most of rightfully cannot see ourselves doing something so damaging as to wallow in each other's wounds. That is why I got out of one [on?] one healing with people. They wanted wound wallowing, for us to fall to the floor and thrash in each other's misery and I can't do that. There is an essential dignity to becoming a whole person and its not present in those sorts of situations.

I come away more alarmed than ever at the state of humanity but ..I would imagine that is what the 'their' mind would want.

Again by our choice.

Some of it is "their" mind but it's also from individuals' mind. In one school of thought (Dianetics and Scientology) that mechanism 9eagle9 describes above is called a "Service Facsimile" and is the result of an initial computation which an individual concluded to (and usually as logical as an oxymoron or a 1984's "War is Peace") and later was handed down to the unconscious to let it run on full automatic without any awareness of it anymore.

Here are a few of the definitions of that mechanism:

These are called “service facsimiles.” “Service” because they serve him. "Facsimiles” because they are in mental image picture form. They explain his disabilities as well. The facsimile part is actually a self-installed disability that “explains” how he is not responsible for being unable to cope. So he is not wrong for not coping. Part of the “package” is to be right by making wrong. The service facsimile is therefore a picture containing an explanation of self condition and also a fixed method of making others wrong.

This is actually part of a chain of incidents which the individual uses to invite sympathy or cooperation on the part of the environment. One uses engrams to handle himself and others and the environment after one has himself conceived that he has failed to handle himself, others and the general environment.

Every time you fail, you pick up this facsimile and become sick or sadly noble. It’s your explanation to yourself and the world as to how and why you failed. It once got you sympathy.

Very helpful post Amzer ZO.

9eagle9 had mentioned in an earlier post many of us had trained or practiced something in your life that helped to shed the flier mind. You might not even know you did this.

You highlighted 9eagle9's line here " I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim.....they don't feel safe"

I could go out at times and walk into a room full of strangers and they would be instantly upset.??? I was the scroogy mckilljoy of the whole party. People would get up and walk to the other side of the room. I haven't even said a word at this point. I have had friends comment about it. I never had any idea why and would make a joke about...how to win friends and influence people. Not every time but often enough that I and others noticed. The other thing that happened is you would be in a conversation with three or more people and one of them would try to align the others against you. It did not have to a important conversation it could be about what restaurant had the best cheeseburger.

Yes, I tried more deodorant and breath mints that didn't work

It all clicked when I read your post here.
I am understanding correctly that a preclear is someone with the flier mind.

I make all of my personal conversations one one because of the dynamic of "ganging up". This is the Matrix self policing itself with the usual dupes. In talks I have given this dynamic seldom takes place. Usually there is only one heckler and maybe one in agreement. This is where ones skills in public speaking are important. It is an art, to be sure.

I think your one on one idea is a sound concept. The way my life is now i will not be able to apply it 100% of the time. Being able to perceive what is happening and why its happening will be helpful.

I will save some money on breath mints as well.

[Jeffrey]

Much Love to everybody!

Really, I mean that, from me to you.

Peace.

[Mark]

Peace indeed, Brother.

See you on the Other Side.

[Hervé]

Posted by Vivek (here)

Peace.

Peace man!

Keep that brilliant mind of yours busy connecting the dots and sharpen that critical assessment of data.

Fare well!

[CdnSirian]

Sad.

Oh yeah cannot post such a short message.

[modwiz]

A time for reflection. The Matrix does not like to be in the spotlight.

You are now returned to your regularly scheduled programming.

[SKAWF]

better to burn brightly than to fade away.

[wegge]

it´s really sad that 9e9 and seems like vivek also are going...
flyer in me says: "wtf are bill and the mods doing are they blind to what´s happening in this thread and others lately?"

this thread really helped to wake me up. I know maybe since 4-5 years about the concept of the ego (flyer, however you´d like to call it) but there was also this feeling, voice in me... yeah that´s cool but I really like who I am but I will do my best and change a few things... that´s always the flyer at work... you send it away he comes around another corner says: yes I will do some things better, but I´m also really good right know.. it´s like bootlicking yourself...
it´s also the voice which says: mhh lately things are getting a bit crazy I don´t know if I can handle it... if you start to emphasize with that than it has you again...
it´s always changing perspectives and tries to align you with him

the same thing when something really nice happens, you´re running around with friends having fun, laughing...then you take a second to think about: "Oh we are having so much fun" that´s the moment when the fun´s fading away because you´re no more feeling it but thinking about it..

I think you really have to grasp the extent of it and get angry about it, because when you think about oh yeah my ego(like a pet) I should tame it a bit at times, that´s really what it likes because it´s influencing you 24/7 and it´s not enough to spot it sometimes... even the spotting and following line of thought "yes I was behaving egoistic I should act otherwise the next time" is the flyers mind at work

that was just on my mind as I was reading about the unsubscription and a few things I was recognizing the last few days so it ended up in this post.

[Finefeather]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Summary: We are not operating under our own volition.

Freed Fox . ....I don't know. If you can think of way to do that please do. I come from a truly unfeeling place of 'I had to read for decades' someone can read 29 pages. But really one can't really show anyone unless they've had their own experiences....as we've all had these experiences. We may not know we've had them. Self reclamation work helps with that. There comes a point where we stop talking and start doing.

But reading really just opens the door. You have to have the experiences to go with the ideas. Like we had recently. A lot of people had experiences to align with what we are talking about here recently. All of us together. A lot of us here shared a sort of telepathy there in those instances.

And I'm not sure what you are asking me. Or if there is anyway to summarize 20,000 years of programming. It's beyond me. And honestly we are a sound bitten programed people . We want information in summaries and compressions. That's public education and our social programming. This stuff has to be studied, in depth not sure if it can be summarized in an effective way. Or if it's even safe to do so.

...to thoroughly know something you have to read, study and experience what you've learned.

Vivek actually is the better person to ask but he already takes on tons on his plate. Then his posts are rather lengthy too. I just read them. Can't get around it. Someone did summarize something that he wrote and put it in terms where I had the aha moment that I previously didn't get before so maybe there is a way to get around this.

Not sure where to start though. People have posted tons of links and information, one has to read through all of that.

A great loss to this forum with the un-subscription of 9eagle9.... Chelley is a soul with a powerful conviction and mission and she does not pull punches. For those who think they have been 'hurt' or 'abused' by her I say only one thing...'better the devil you know than the devil you don't'. When we have been scolded and lectured by our parents in our lives and later on in life realize the wisdom in the lesson, we should also realize that we are all but children in the eyes of the bigger picture. Arrogance and ignorance seem to go hand in hand on this planet and most of us are still so far from reality that reading a 30 page thread is a small effort to gain some insight when we have spend weeks and months reading books and other stories in our lives.

This is the best post about this dilemma...people are looking for the quick fix without doing the hard graft...a common phenomena in the world where the internet and all it's stories is used to try to acquire wisdom. When are we going to learn that wisdom only comes from experience in this life or our previous lives' history ? When are we going to learn to realize just how little we know.

My thanks goes out to Chelley and a call for her return...it is funny how we make up all sorts of excuses and stories when we believe we are so clever and wise and then proceed to throw out the truth when faced with it...exactly what she is trying to get across is demonstrated by those who have so much to complain about.

If you cannot handle the pounding of the never ceasing waves in the ocean then move to the calm waters of the lakes on our beautiful, diverse planet where you will find a place and a message which best suits your current needs...but if you choose the ocean do not expect it to change it's nature for you.

We need to learn to cultivate and grow a quality in us which gives us tolerance and love and compassion and to accept what we are...children of the one life which permeates all Beings.

Unconditional love is the key to world peace...Courage, Patients and Love is the way.
Love to all
Ray